New efforts!

[Tyger42]

This is an interesting read, things not looking so good for NCSoft at present, but I'm not an expert so it may even mean nothing!

http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/11/ncsofts-q1-2017-financials-show-tumbles-for-lineage-guild-wars-2-plus-new-leadership-for-lineage-eternal/

Hey, I know! They should sell a popular IP they have just sitting unused and gathering dust for a cash injection!

[thunderforce]

Thing is, because the game is known to attract and encourage that type of gameplay, the players it attracts are prone to be ones that like that type of gameplay. So, of course they're going to be the ones who last longer. It's not really a valid study without a control group. And that's more than a little complicated to accomplish with something like this.

The control group is unganked new players.

[Solitaire]

Hey, I know! They should sell a popular IP they have just sitting unused and gathering dust for a cash injection!

My thoughts exactly  ;)

[Tyger42]

The control group is unganked new players.

Not really. The environment isn't neutral.

Let me explain: Like I said, the conditions before their "study" were already biased. They encouraged ganking, thus they were more likely to attract players that were predisposed to prefer that environment.The players that found it met their expectations were more likely to stay. So the study group was not controlled.

It's a style that works for them, and it's too late to change now, really. Just saying I think they would have done better if they discouraged players abusing each other.

[LaughingAlex]

What Tyger is saying is that, how'd I put it, when the game encourages some kind of player behavior, the players comfortable with that stay around more and those uncomfortable with it leave early enough to not necessarily be counted.  This happens with champions online: The game's lore is very mary sue-ish and you see things like glowy-stealing(game encourages it).  Because the player is worshipped constantly to an extreme and because the player can do things like steal from others fighting for a quest item(the glowey) you end up with more rude individuals than nice individuals.  The % of nicer players lowers as nicer players get tired of it and leave.  The same can be said of those who are put off by being treated like mary sue; they leave early enough that no one really counts them.

You end up with players who either don't notice they are treated like mary sue, those who play only cause they feel they have no other options, and those who want to be mary sue and want to be treated like kings.  While you still get people who want a fun game and want some challenge, you get a lot playing CO who are just in it for a giant power trip easy mode.  The game's community imo is the way it is because the game encourages those kinds of vices.

That can honestly be said of any game though encouraging some form of bad behavior(of the soft variety) in it's players.  At least when they are playing the game in question they end up like that while playing it :/.  To them, the bad bahavior is part of the game in question.

[LaughingAlex]

I think likewise, because CoH was fundamentaly about helping others, protecting innocents ect, it encouraged players to interact with other players in the same light.  Of course we still had our share of noobs/scrubs/shfg's, mostly players who played other mmorpgs that tried playing CoH like another mmorpg though.  But people who learned tended to, I notice, get nicer over time for it in a way.

It's the thing I miss most about CoH, the community behind it.

[Solitaire]

This is an interesting read, things not looking so good for NCSoft at present, but I'm not an expert so it may even mean nothing!

http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/11/ncsofts-q1-2017-financials-show-tumbles-for-lineage-guild-wars-2-plus-new-leadership-for-lineage-eternal/

Just read this one as well, profits down by 74%... Ouch!

http://www.mmorpg.com/lineage-eternal-twilight-resistance/news/ncsoft-shuffles-development-as-company-profits-tumble-1000044204

[thunderforce]

It's a style that works for them, and it's too late to change now, really. Just saying I think they would have done better if they discouraged players abusing each other.

It's not abuse to PVP someone in a PVP-everywhere game.

You're trying to ask a different question - would EVE be better off as the swamp of shenanigans and casual amorality it is now, or as a game more like every other? That's too speculative to answer with this kind of data collection, but as said earlier in the thread it has survived for 14 years as a niche market while dozens of more generic MMOs have fallen by the wayside, so it's not at all clear to me that your speculation above is correct.

The question actually being asked is where the game goes from here; given the players it does attract, are they retained or put off by ganking? It seems clear that they are retained.

[FloatingFatMan]

Just read this one as well, profits down by 74%... Ouch!

http://www.mmorpg.com/lineage-eternal-twilight-resistance/news/ncsoft-shuffles-development-as-company-profits-tumble-1000044204

Oh my heart bleeds for them. Boohoo. Sob sob etc.

[hejtmane]

Warms mt heart about NCSoft profit down 74% I will not even give their other stuff a look because hey even if it is making money; but not at x % they will  close the game down so no reason for me to invest in an NCSoft game. I get if they were in the red. COH profit was up and I was about to spend extra money on top of my sub when Bio Armor was coming out but nope they shut down the game and so I just avoid NCSoft games now.

[Thunder Glove]

Huh.  "NCSoft is planning to mobile and VR games based on existing titles including Aion and Blade & Soul."

... I wonder if they're planning on making terrible mobile and VR spinoffs of CoH, too.

[Tyger42]

It's not abuse to PVP someone in a PVP-everywhere game.

Ganking a player who's too low level to put up any fight isn't simply "PVPing" them... It's more akin to spawn camping in an FPS. Sure, the game allows it....but you're still a dick for doing it.

[Power Gamer]

Huh.  "NCSoft is planning to mobile and VR games based on existing titles including Aion and Blade & Soul."

... I wonder if they're planning on making terrible mobile and VR spinoffs of CoH, too.

I would be so down for a VR CoX!

So take my money already!

[HeatSpike1]

A 3 year "talk" about the possibility of acquiring the CoX IP... they must have bid $1.00 on day one, and an additional $500.00 every day since then.  ;D I guess that means the bid is up to about $555,000. Maybe they'll finally crack once we hit $1,000,000?  8)

[Power Gamer]

A 3 year "talk" about the possibility of acquiring the CoX IP... they must have bid $1.00 on day one, and an additional $500.00 every day since then.  ;D I guess that means the bid is up to about $555,000. Maybe they'll finally crack once we hit $1,000,000?  8)

It was a hope.

But there are some spiritual successors who are making progress and we have that to look forward to...

[Goddangit]

This is an interesting read, things not looking so good for NCSoft at present, but I'm not an expert so it may even mean nothing!

http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/11/ncsofts-q1-2017-financials-show-tumbles-for-lineage-guild-wars-2-plus-new-leadership-for-lineage-eternal/

I hope they go bankrupt.  Maybe someone will buy them willing to sell off City of Heroes.

[Dev7on]

This is an interesting read, things not looking so good for NCSoft at present, but I'm not an expert so it may even mean nothing!

http://massivelyop.com/2017/05/11/ncsofts-q1-2017-financials-show-tumbles-for-lineage-guild-wars-2-plus-new-leadership-for-lineage-eternal/

I think Karma is kicking in.  ;D

[Surelle]

I hope they go bankrupt.  Maybe someone will buy them willing to sell off City of Heroes.

Wow, you never know!  OR-- maybe they'll be forced to sell off their assets piecemeal, and a worthy publisher for CoH will emerge that way....

[Brigadine]

Not really. The environment isn't neutral.

Let me explain: Like I said, the conditions before their "study" were already biased. They encouraged ganking, thus they were more likely to attract players that were predisposed to prefer that environment.The players that found it met their expectations were more likely to stay. So the study group was not controlled.

It's a style that works for them, and it's too late to change now, really. Just saying I think they would have done better if they discouraged players abusing each other.

The survey only lets you pick one reason for leaving as well. That can obviously skew the data because multiple reasons are not being represented.

[thunderforce]

Ganking a player who's too low level to put up any fight isn't simply "PVPing" them...

... and isn't a concept present in EVE, since the game has no levels - and no, higher skillpoint totals can't all be brought to bear and aren't any guarantee of victory.

Characters used for ganking typically have relatively low numbers of skillpoints; you don't need many to gank. Any player with any number of skillpoints can defend themselves against ganking in EVE by tanking their ship, watching Local, and watching D-scan. People die to ganks not because the other party had more skillpoints; typically they died because they were AFK (evident from the number of podkills that follow; in highsec and lowsec, you can always get your pod out if you're paying attention.)

The objection you're making simply betrays a lack of knowledge of the game.