Author Topic: New efforts!  (Read 7212586 times)

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26580 on: January 17, 2017, 03:29:50 AM »
Point 3. As per your Rhode Island point. The State was actually under threat of port blockade and embargo by the other 11 colonies. http://historum.com/american-history/33215-rhode-island-threatened-invasion-us-print.html Both of those acts by the US could be viewed as an act of war. Had that not happened it is conceivable that they wouldn't have ratified it and they might have been invaded and annexed.

Well, that sounds like you are agreeing with my point, which is that the "uniqueness" of the Constitution being related to its endowment of political power with "the people" has a questionable history.

But there was never really a serious threat of invasion.  Historically, there were rumors that Massachusetts and Connecticut would invade and annex Rhode Island, but there's no credible facts to support that contention I can find.  The problems were mostly economic: Rhode Island had issues with the federalization of currency and certain issues with trade.  Rhode Island wanted to maintain the status quo under the Articles of Confederation but the simple fact is that the majority of the rest of the states did not.  The other colonies basically said you can't have it both ways: you can't be a part of a confederation that doesn't exist.  Ratify and join the United States under the constitution or be declared a foreign state which the other states will subsequently treat unfavorably.  The blockade was an attempt to give the economic argument teeth.

The blockade cannot be an act of war unless Rhode Island was an independent state.  In effect the blockade and threats of economic sanctions forced Rhode Island off the fence.  Their only recourse was treat the blockade as a legal dispute between itself and the other states of the union which it could only resolve if it formalized relations with the other states, or an act of war which first required declaring itself an independent nation capable of declaring war against the other states.  At the time Rhode Island had a population less than that of a typical NFL stadium.  They had no capacity to fight a war with anyone.  Both the other states and people within Rhode Island itself were afraid that if Rhode Island attempted to go it alone they would be easy prey to be turned into a puppet of a foreign power, especially of England.  That's where the rumors of invasion and annexation by the other states came from.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26581 on: January 17, 2017, 03:31:24 AM »
According to the Civ game I played recently none of what is being said is adding up  First of all you guys haven't even mentioned how Rome had conquered most of the known world by 1776.  Not sure where you guys are getting your facts but uh I witnessed the whole thing and clearly the world was always under Roman rule as a Monarchy.  I think at one point they were a Merchant Republic but that didn't last long.

Was this before or after we colonized Alpha Centauri?

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26582 on: January 17, 2017, 03:35:35 AM »

Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26583 on: January 17, 2017, 04:50:14 AM »
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

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Ohioknight

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26584 on: January 17, 2017, 12:33:56 PM »
Ahhh, the days of silliness and seriousness of Babylon 5.

Taken away from us before we were ready to let go.

Reminds me of something else...

Taken from us? Really?  They finished season 5.  Granted the late renewal really screwed up season 4 and the overall arc...
But dude, that was all there was ever going to be -- planned out from day one -- Babylon 5 -- 5 seasons.

Now Crusade, I'll grant you... but that was kinda screwed up by the production from the get-go
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Power Gamer

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26585 on: January 17, 2017, 02:25:23 PM »
I, for one, was not done watching the show.
It takes a village to raise a child. And it takes a villain to explain the value of lunch money.

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Korbian

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26586 on: January 17, 2017, 02:45:30 PM »
I, for one, was not done watching the show.

^^^
This.

Darn, I wish it was on Netflix.   :'(

Remaugen

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26587 on: January 17, 2017, 04:31:34 PM »
^^^
This.

Darn, I wish it was on Netflix.   :'(


Me too!
We're almost there!  ;D

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Protocol 9

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26588 on: January 17, 2017, 08:23:37 PM »
Isn't it still on Hulu? I remember it being there a couple years ago (and noticing that the effects really haven't aged well).

Angel Phoenix77

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26589 on: January 17, 2017, 09:18:31 PM »
Isn't it still on Hulu? I remember it being there a couple years ago (and noticing that the effects really haven't aged well).
If you are asking about Bab 5. then no it is not on Hulu or Netflix, the only way to watch it is too buy the dvds or off of amazon streaming. I am sure there are other ways to buy it though.
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Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26590 on: January 17, 2017, 09:30:28 PM »
Taken from us? Really?  They finished season 5.  Granted the late renewal really screwed up season 4 and the overall arc...
But dude, that was all there was ever going to be -- planned out from day one -- Babylon 5 -- 5 seasons.

Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations.  There would never be another.

Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26591 on: January 18, 2017, 07:03:20 AM »
Babylon 5 was the last of the Babylon stations.  There would never be another.

Yeah, well, didn't the narrator also call Sinclair its "last commander"? Not exactly what I'd call a reliable source of information.

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26592 on: January 18, 2017, 01:30:29 PM »
Well, that sounds like you are agreeing with my point, which is that the "uniqueness" of the Constitution being related to its endowment of political power with "the people" has a questionable history.

But there was never really a serious threat of invasion.  Historically, there were rumors that Massachusetts and Connecticut would invade and annex Rhode Island, but there's no credible facts to support that contention I can find.  The problems were mostly economic: Rhode Island had issues with the federalization of currency and certain issues with trade.  Rhode Island wanted to maintain the status quo under the Articles of Confederation but the simple fact is that the majority of the rest of the states did not.  The other colonies basically said you can't have it both ways: you can't be a part of a confederation that doesn't exist.  Ratify and join the United States under the constitution or be declared a foreign state which the other states will subsequently treat unfavorably.  The blockade was an attempt to give the economic argument teeth.

The blockade cannot be an act of war unless Rhode Island was an independent state.  In effect the blockade and threats of economic sanctions forced Rhode Island off the fence.  Their only recourse was treat the blockade as a legal dispute between itself and the other states of the union which it could only resolve if it formalized relations with the other states, or an act of war which first required declaring itself an independent nation capable of declaring war against the other states.  At the time Rhode Island had a population less than that of a typical NFL stadium.  They had no capacity to fight a war with anyone.  Both the other states and people within Rhode Island itself were afraid that if Rhode Island attempted to go it alone they would be easy prey to be turned into a puppet of a foreign power, especially of England.  That's where the rumors of invasion and annexation by the other states came from.
I am kinda, personally who cares about RI? Especially at the time like 5 people lived there. It was the Wyoming of the time haha.

AmberOfDzu

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26593 on: January 18, 2017, 03:40:31 PM »
I am kinda, personally who cares about RI? Especially at the time like 5 people lived there. It was the Wyoming of the time haha.
This made me laugh. One would perhaps think that a State should have some minimal number of people, or some large land area; but nope! Past the original 13 (incl RI), the only criterion for statehood was in convincing Congress to admit them.

Rhode Island is about the size of many counties in the US, either by population or by area; but it was an independently governed colony and thus got its chance at full statehood.

An interesting article here http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/10/if_every_u_s_state_had_the_same_population_what_would_the_map_of_america.html shows a few ways of redividing the US into a variety of numbers of states of equal population.

Brigadine

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26594 on: January 18, 2017, 06:33:56 PM »
This made me laugh. One would perhaps think that a State should have some minimal number of people, or some large land area; but nope! Past the original 13 (incl RI), the only criterion for statehood was in convincing Congress to admit them.

Rhode Island is about the size of many counties in the US, either by population or by area; but it was an independently governed colony and thus got its chance at full statehood.

An interesting article here http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/10/if_every_u_s_state_had_the_same_population_what_would_the_map_of_america.html shows a few ways of redividing the US into a variety of numbers of states of equal population.
Thanks for that link :)

CG

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26595 on: January 18, 2017, 09:22:00 PM »

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26596 on: January 18, 2017, 09:45:46 PM »
Yeah, well, didn't the narrator also call Sinclair its "last commander"? Not exactly what I'd call a reliable source of information.

Actually, that quote is from Ivanova in Sleeping in Light, speaking retrospectively, so canonically true.

I don't remember anyone calling Sinclair B5's "last" commander although it is possible.  I confirmed in the Pilot the narrator referred to its "final commander" but didn't name him so technically wasn't incorrect.  Also, that narrator was Londo, an in-universe canonically unreliable narrator.

Arcana

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26597 on: January 18, 2017, 10:35:54 PM »
This made me laugh. One would perhaps think that a State should have some minimal number of people, or some large land area; but nope! Past the original 13 (incl RI), the only criterion for statehood was in convincing Congress to admit them.

Rhode Island is about the size of many counties in the US, either by population or by area; but it was an independently governed colony and thus got its chance at full statehood.

An interesting article here http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2014/10/if_every_u_s_state_had_the_same_population_what_would_the_map_of_america.html shows a few ways of redividing the US into a variety of numbers of states of equal population.

To be fair, in 1790 the largest state by population was Virginia with about 750,000 people, and that included the people in what is today West Virginia.  Otherwise, the "large" states had about 300k-400k populations.  Rhode Island had about 69k (fewer at the time of ratification) and by population the smallest state was Delaware with about 59k.  Excluding Virginia, the smallest state had about 1/7th the population of the largest.  Today, the smallest by population (Wyoming) has about 1/67th the population of the largest (California).

Discounting Stubhub, every NFL stadium can seat the 1790 population of Delaware except one: Oakland Coliseum (capacity: 56,063).  Five of the original thirteen colonies have lower 1790 populations than record attendance at Disneyland (~100k): Delaware, Georgia, Maine, Rhode Island, and Vermont. 

And here's a fun fact: the original state of Virginia (which back then included current West Virginia) had approximately the same size and population in 1790 as North Dakota does today.  Virginia had a higher population in 1790 than three states do today: Alaska, Vermont, and Wyoming. 

Twisted Toon

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26598 on: January 18, 2017, 11:12:20 PM »
Actually, that quote is from Ivanova in Sleeping in Light, speaking retrospectively, so canonically true.

I don't remember anyone calling Sinclair B5's "last" commander although it is possible.  I confirmed in the Pilot the narrator referred to its "final commander" but didn't name him so technically wasn't incorrect.  Also, that narrator was Londo, an in-universe canonically unreliable narrator.

Weren't Sheridan and Lockley Captains and not a commanders?
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Codewalker

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Re: New efforts!
« Reply #26599 on: January 19, 2017, 02:53:04 AM »
Weren't Sheridan and Lockley Captains and not a commanders?

I was wondering if somebody was going to language lawyer that. But when you're talking about "commander of a station", it's little 'c', not big 'c'. Just like the Navy uses 'captain of the ship' for whoever is in command, regardless if their actual rank is Captain or not.

Army/Air Force bases have commanders, but those branches doesn't even have a Commander rank. The closest thing would probably be a Lt. Col as they're both O-5, though IIRC even Majors have been known to command smaller bases.

Actually, that quote is from Ivanova in Sleeping in Light, speaking retrospectively, so canonically true.

I don't remember anyone calling Sinclair B5's "last" commander although it is possible.  I confirmed in the Pilot the narrator referred to its "final commander" but didn't name him so technically wasn't incorrect.  Also, that narrator was Londo, an in-universe canonically unreliable narrator.

The line from the pilot is what I was thinking of. True enough about Londo, though the pilot was retconned in several other ways as well, so it's already less reliable.

Come to think of it, I'm not sure if I've ever watched Season 5 all the way through. I've seen the first 4 a bunch, as well as Sleeping in Light and some of the movies, but that kind of covers the big story arc and most of season 5 seems superfluous.