New efforts!

[Noyjitat]

Because you quoted my entire post that contained responses to several other posts, I'm not exactly sure which game you're referring to.  Mario 64?  That was essentially just a re-release I believe, I never played the 3DS version but I think all they really did is add in functionality to facilitate player switching and such, it was basically still the same game.  As for the rest, I'm honestly not sure what point you're trying to make.  You're referring to microtransactions now I think(?) and somehow implying that modern games no longer possess save file functionality???  You're all over the place here.  Can you maybe give me a concrete example of bad DLC for a specific game?

Where exactly did I say I hate paid dlc? I'm someone that had hundreds of paragon reward tokens from all the money I spent there and about 6 months ago I spent 500$ in cartel coins for swtor. And all of that stuff is cosmetic... or usefulWhat I hate is games that when you buy them on day one (especially on the damned consoles) a large portion of what use to be included with buying the game no longer is.

I'm not sure that I know how to make this anymore clear. Did you own a nes, n64, snes, genesis, dreamcast, playstation 1 basically any system before they started making them more like pcs. If you bought a game for any of those system the game was complete. Nothing extra was required to play other than a memory card for saving on some. All content was unlocked or was later unlocked as you progress in the game and once you beat the game (if you like the game) you bought the sequel that came out months or years later and that was also a complete game. You didn't have to pay to unlock parts of the game it was all unlocked for the one time fee of purchasing the physical cartridge or disk. This basically no longer exists, they sell you a portion of the game upfront and require you to buy a dlc or season pass to unlock more parts of it or like streetfighter requiring you to buy characters rather than unlocking them as you beat the game like all the older consoles had.

[darkgob]

Where exactly did I say I hate paid dlc?

Pardon me, I'm losing track of which ridiculous argument belongs to which person.

I'm not sure that I know how to make this anymore clear. Did you own a nes, n64, snes, genesis, dreamcast, playstation 1 basically any system before they started making them more like pcs. If you bought a game for any of those system the game was complete. Nothing extra was required to play other than a memory card for saving on some. All content was unlocked or was later unlocked as you progress in the game and once you beat the game (if you like the game) you bought the sequel that came out months or years later and that was also a complete game. You didn't have to pay to unlock parts of the game it was all unlocked for the one time fee of purchasing the physical cartridge or disk. This basically no longer exists, they sell you a portion of the game upfront and require you to buy a dlc or season pass to unlock more parts of it or like streetfighter requiring you to buy characters rather than unlocking them as you beat the game like all the older consoles had.

This is provably false, your fallacy here is generalizing (frankly to a rather absurd scale) from high-profile examples.  Many many games do not use DLC in the manner you described, or even at all.

[Noyjitat]

Yep wasting my time here. Moving along else where...

[darkgob]

Phew, for a moment there I thought I was going to have to list all the games on Steam with no DLC for sale.

[Vee]

A lot of these problems go away if you're just patient and don't have to have the new shiny right when it releases. I always wait for the GOTY or complete editions of games that come out a yearish later. Now I'm off to play xcom which i got with the expansion and some dlc for 7 bucks from humble bundle

[MM3squints]

A lot of these problems go away if you're just patient and don't have to have the new shiny right when it releases. I always wait for the GOTY or complete editions of games that come out a yearish later. Now I'm off to play xcom which i got with the expansion and some dlc for 7 bucks from humble bundle

This is very logical, but I'll take Fallout 4 for an example with me:

E3 June 2015: Fallout 4 is coming out 
Me: Ok... I'll wait till atleast the creation kit is out
E3 June 2015: Todd Howard: In the collector edition we will give you a plastic Pipboy which is a stupid gimmick, but the best F'n stupid gimmick out there (he actually said that on stage)
Me: Hello Gamestop, I would like to pre-order... $120 for a plastic Pipboy and a copy of the game O.o Ok take my money
August: Come to think about it... I will get the game, but I won't be able to play it on launch day because I have to go to Gamestop and wait in line to play it. What am I thinking of, its only 3 hours tops
September: I really don't want to wait in line to play this game
October: I really....REALLLY~~~ don't want to wait
November 4: *Steam sale purchase $59.99 Fallout 4* Meh I'll justify this by giving my hard copy of Fallout 4 to my brother in law
November 7: Put in two vacation days. The reason (I actually put this in and it got approved) "I'm traveling to Boston to get irradiated."
November 8: Ok all set, wait Fallout 4 is doing a season pass for $30.... Well I got all the Morrowind, Oblivion, Fallout 3, Fallout NV, Skyrim DLC might as well

Total money Bethesda made off of me because I refused to be patient : $210
Logically is it worth it: No I just spend more than 3x the amount for a product
Personally is it worth it?: Yes~~~ and I am dressing up as a vault dweller next year for my companies Halloween party
I'm sure are even more irrational gamers than me xD

[Arcana]

I'm not sure that I know how to make this anymore clear. Did you own a nes, n64, snes, genesis, dreamcast, playstation 1 basically any system before they started making them more like pcs. If you bought a game for any of those system the game was complete. Nothing extra was required to play other than a memory card for saving on some. All content was unlocked or was later unlocked as you progress in the game and once you beat the game (if you like the game) you bought the sequel that came out months or years later and that was also a complete game. You didn't have to pay to unlock parts of the game it was all unlocked for the one time fee of purchasing the physical cartridge or disk. This basically no longer exists, they sell you a portion of the game upfront and require you to buy a dlc or season pass to unlock more parts of it or like streetfighter requiring you to buy characters rather than unlocking them as you beat the game like all the older consoles had.

I'm not sure I understand the objection.  Take the Arkham series, for example.  Those games are unquestionably "complete" games: you do not have to buy any DLC to get a complete game experience.  However, taking advantage of technology that simply didn't exist at the time of the Sega Dreamcast, the developer created downloadable content for purchase that enhances that existing game.  I wouldn't characterize that as selling you only a "portion" of the game: its a complete game.  Are you saying that game developers shouldn't do that, that the Arkham games should force you to rebuy the entire game every time they make something new, so that each and every single expansion of the game is a "complete" game for which nothing will ever be added to it?  That doesn't make sense to me.

Let's take the game LA Noire as an example.  The game was initially released as a complete game: no DLC required.  Then they offered "episode packs" as DLC that were in and of themselves complete standalone content set within the same game engine: they were totally different content independent from the original game.  *Then* they decided to sell a "complete" edition that included the base game and all of the original DLC.  It sounds like you're saying that if they had never made any new episodes and Rockstar went out of business after the release of LA Noire, then LA Noire would be a good example of a "complete" game.  But when they decided to make new expansion packs for it, that somehow devalued the original game: it became a "partial" game when that happened.  But then when they decided to bundle everything together and sell a version of the game with all the expansions included, then that package became a "complete" game again.  To me, that seems to be an untenable perspective, and also not useful to discussing what makes a good game.  I don't consider Rockstar to have carved up LA Noire to make more money, and I don't consider the original game to be a partial game.  In this case the DLC seems to be a legitimate separate "game" that happens to be set in the same IP and runs on the same game infrastructure, but doesn't devalue the original in any way.  Would you disagree?

[brothermutant]

A lot of these problems go away if you're just patient and don't have to have the new shiny right when it releases. I always wait for the GOTY or complete editions of games that come out a yearish later. Now I'm off to play xcom which i got with the expansion and some dlc for 7 bucks from humble bundle

Humble Bundle is AWESOME! Just got DB Xenoverse and all three dlcs for half price.

[Aggelakis]

LA Noire

I loved this game so much. SO MUCH.

[brothermutant]

I heard it wasn't that good. Why did you like it, if I may ask? Was looking at it and it did look interesting.

[Joshex]

heck it's bad enough that we can't use the term "super hero" - thank you Marvel and DC!

wait, say what?! how about "superhero" ? my understanding is it's just a common word in the dictionary and therefore can't be owned any more so than the word "Jump" ?

if even that is not usable then someone needs to take Marvel and DC to court for a freedom of speech/public domain case. It's a word, and not a proper noun, it's not a fantasy word which does not exist in the dictionary like marvel's "BAMF", it's a word that exists in dictionaries. at least that is a heck of an argument.

[Aggelakis]

I heard it wasn't that good. Why did you like it, if I may ask? Was looking at it and it did look interesting.

The story is pretty linear (I've heard "on rails" a few times), but I *love* puzzle games and this was incredibly engrossing. It's beautiful, the stories are well written, and the fact that you have to *PAY ATTENTION* is fantastic. It doesn't hurt that I am mildly obsessed with the 40s, sleuths, & the Black Dahlia in particular (which the game starts out with).

It's definitely worth it now, since you can get the game and all five DLC stories (& some outfits) for $20-30. (It's $30 on Steam but goes on sale pretty regularly.)

NOTE: The stories with murders are way better than the stories with arsons, but them's the breaks.

[Aggelakis]

wait, say what?! how about "superhero" ? my understanding is it's just a common word in the dictionary and therefore can't be owned any more so than the word "Jump" ?

if even that is not usable then someone needs to take Marvel and DC to court for a freedom of speech/public domain case. It's a word, and not a proper noun, it's not a fantasy word which does not exist in the dictionary like marvel's "BAMF", it's a word that exists in dictionaries. at least that is a heck of an argument.

Incorrect. Here's a good rundown: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=6738

[Stitchified]

*cough*Minecraft*cough*

There are tons of very successful games released in the last 10 years built on way, way worse engines than the COH one. Shiny isn't everything.

Sad thing is that MOST people prefer shiny more so than anything when it comes to Video Games... I personally love to kick back and play my PS1 games on my PS3 (like Star Ocean The Second Story or Final Fantasy 4 ), but as I stated before, MOST people prefer shiny more so than anything so not many people would kick back and play PS1 games on their PS3

[Joshex]

Incorrect. Here's a good rundown: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=6738

Thanks,

Hmm, I see, it could be challenged now-a-days actually, we could run surveys showing people also consider City of heroes characters "superheroes" even though it was never explicitly mentioned in the game. Not to mention if they asked me I'd mention all those non-marvel non-DC comics that people bring to comic-con hoping to get them published.

Superhero was once a specific concept created by Marvel/DC but now it's a general term whether or not they like it or try to protect it, the use of the word "Superhero" inside something is still legal even under their trademark, and no doubt there's a lot of comic books from various comic companies and persons that use the word inside them.

Obviously we can't make a game called "city of superheroes" but we can call them superheroes inside the game (as many people did in their character origin text and AE Missions texts (not the names of the missions), heck I know I did.)

however there really isn't a need to challenge it, pft so I can't use it in the name of a game or comic book etc. I can still use it in the game however.

I was worried for a moment though lol

[Felderburg]

A lot of these problems go away if you're just patient and don't have to have the new shiny right when it releases. I always wait for the GOTY or complete editions of games that come out a yearish later. Now I'm off to play xcom which i got with the expansion and some dlc for 7 bucks from humble bundle

Yep! Target is also a good place to get games for cheap if you wait. I got the entire Elder Scrolls series for $30, including Skyrim with its DLC. The Skyrim legendary (or whatever) edition was $20 at Target when I got the 5 game pack.

if I didn't carry the Paragon Express card

The what now?

[brothermutant]

As mathematical analysts, we have to be useful to the non-mathematicians.  So we have to figure out what players want, and tune our analysis to match.  In this case, the mathematically correct analysis looks at increasing survivability.  And that survivability varies inversely proportional to damage admittance - the inverse of damage mitigation.  When we go from 1/.75 to 0.75/0.5 to 0.5/0.25 we go from 1.33 to 1.5 to 2.0.  That is escalating return on investment.  The other analysis where we go from 250 to 250 to 250 is quantitatively correct, but its not talking about the same thing players talk about when they talk about "value."  It takes the word "value" and perverts it into something that is mathematically correct but inconsistent with what players themselves mean, and that's deception at best and intellectual dishonesty at worst.

I get the logic behind the math but what I never could figure out was what was the better of the two: High (60-75%) resistances with ok defenses or high (40-45%) defenses with OK resistances.

[Fanta]

I get the logic behind the math but what I never could figure out was what was the better of the two: High (60-75%) resistances with ok defenses or high (40-45%) defenses with OK resistances.

Defense is better in most cases AFAIK. Resist is second. I'm sure an A will come along some numbers Also it depends on if you're teaming. Most people(ATs) in the late game built for defense because it's easier and more practical than resist

[Taceus Jiwede]

I always considered defense to be more important.  Please forum guru's feel free to correct me if I am wrong.  But defense always rolled first.  And it rolled to see if the attack even would bypass your defense level's.  If it did then it would roll and see how much of the damage is resisted, if any.  I just always considered the first roll to be more important.  On tank character's though I always had high resistance's too though.  Because you are taking so much damage it is inevitable that your defense will be bypassed.

Again if this isn't accurate feel free to correct me.

[Arcana]

I get the logic behind the math but what I never could figure out was what was the better of the two: High (60-75%) resistances with ok defenses or high (40-45%) defenses with OK resistances.

Rule of thumb: the latter is usually better than the former.  Reason: resistances cause you to take less damage, but defenses of comparable numerical strength cause you to take less damage *and* get hit by less secondary effects (mez, debuff) as well.  The general exception: in environments with high tohit (which reduces the effects of defense) or high defense debuff when you don't have high defense debuff resistance, the former is better than the latter simply because in those cases specifically your numerically strong defense will tend to get wiped out quickly.  In those cases resistance - which can't get debuffed in the same way because of the mechanics of resistance in CoH - performs better because it sticks around more.