New efforts!

[Arcana]

I just miss playing on Triumph, where you didn't need a SG, all you needed was HUB

It helped to have the right amount of brain damage.  Not enough to make you stupid, but more than enough to make you crazy.

[MM3squints]

It helped to have the right amount of brain damage.  Not enough to make you stupid, but more than enough to make you crazy.

I prefer calling it exploratory gameplay. Sunsplitter would called it playing the game drunk and take a shot every time someone dies. It's like his game play progressively got worse as time went on for some reason xD

[worldweary]

I just don't feel like there are any successors.They can try to emulate the game play or think they can make it better but COH and only COH has what I want.Even unchanging COH will be more fun and satisfying than any game on the market.I'm making builds and costumes with Mid's and Icon when I could be playing other games.That says it all.VO and COT are made by fans but they can't recapture or remake what I'm missing in
COH.As far as APR is concerned,I would still play COH.Maybe I'm just not like other people chasing the new shiny.

[Brigadine]

I can understand the desire to have CoH back. I'm here because I miss it and want it back too.

What I *don't* understand is the lack of interest in any of the possible successors. Why? Remember, if/when CoH get resurrected, it will be an unchanging, static world. It will be I23 forever. APR may one day replace it but that will be a long time to come and APR will not be I23, dotted eye for dotted eye, because without the source code, it can't be. So, a living, growing world will not be CoX; close maybe, but not the same.  Therefore, why not any of the successors?

Is is because you were burned by CO?
Is it because the CoX lore won't be there?
Is it because powers may not work exactly the same?
What?

I want as many of the people I interacted with in CoX to be with me wherever the new home (or homes) is. I would be disappointed if new games, possibly even a better game, were dismissed without being given a shot.

Honestly it would need to feel like CoH in EVERY single way. Powers, movement, mechanics etc. CoX lore is a very big deal too.
I never even bothered with CO

[worldweary]

Honestly it would need to feel like CoH in EVERY single way. Powers, movement, mechanics etc. CoX lore is a very big deal too.
I never even bothered with CO

There is no need to play something that feels,looks or plays like COH.We have COH.We just need it back.

[Soul Resonance]

There is no need to play something that feels,looks or plays like COH.We have COH.We just need it back.

^
;D ;D

[Soul Resonance]

And for those who keep saying, "Every year CoH is gone value will depreciate..there will be no point..etc etc.." Look at CO. Seriously, just look. Look at their history until now, 4 Years. 4 years of no new content besides little snippits of hour-long content. If they can pull Maintenance Mode off and make a sizable enough penny to keep the lights on for all this time, so can CoH(CoH might make a smidge more because we have the ear of Massively, and IGN, and a few other sites.. 8) 8).)

[Abraxus]

And for those who keep saying, "Every year CoH is gone value will depreciate..there will be no point..etc etc.." Look at CO. Seriously, just look. Look at their history until now, 4 Years. 4 years of no new content besides little snippits of hour-long content. If they can pull Maintenance Mode off and make a sizable enough penny to keep the lights on for all this time, so can CoH(CoH might make a smidge more because we have the ear of Massively, and IGN, and a few other sites.. 8) 8).)

I agree, but only to a point. 

The advantage that CO has in this scenario is that it is still out there, live, and accessible.  For those outside the faithful (meaning us), CoH is just a memory of a game already gone for 3 years that fades a little more every day.  My fear is that if things don't happen before too much longer, there might not be enough of us left to keep it afloat for very long in the even that it does return.  That is not an observation born of impatience, or depression.  Just one that recognizes that market values degrade with the passage of time without something tangible to offer, and there has already been a significant passage of time with no end in sight.  Paragon Chat, and Icon are fine to keep the spark of hope alive for those of us who know about it, but without something the average user can identify with, the degradation of the brand will continue.  Up 'till now, we have gone forward primarily on faith, but you can only depend on faith for so long.

I will be here if it returns no matter what.  Not everyone who ever played will necessarily do so.

[Soul Resonance]

I agree, but only to a point. 

The advantage that CO has in this scenario is that it is still out there, live, and accessible.  For those outside the faithful (meaning us), CoH is just a memory of a game already gone for 3 years that fades a little more every day.  My fear is that if things don't happen before too much longer, there might not be enough of us left to keep it afloat for very long in the even that it does return.  That is not an observation born of impatience, or depression.  Just one that recognizes that market values degrade with the passage of time without something tangible to offer, and there has already been a significant passage of time with no end in sight.  Paragon Chat, and Icon are fine to keep the spark of hope alive for those of us who know about it, but without something the average user can identify with, the degradation of the brand will continue.  Up 'till now, we have gone forward primarily on faith, but you can only depend on faith for so long.

I will be here if it returns no matter what.  Not everyone who ever played will necessarily do so.

Very true, though I don't have any fear for population  8) not with the amount of people who will want to spread the word(myself included)

[Sinistar]

I agree, but only to a point. 

The advantage that CO has in this scenario is that it is still out there, live, and accessible.  For those outside the faithful (meaning us), CoH is just a memory of a game already gone for 3 years that fades a little more every day.  My fear is that if things don't happen before too much longer, there might not be enough of us left to keep it afloat for very long in the even that it does return.  That is not an observation born of impatience, or depression.  Just one that recognizes that market values degrade with the passage of time without something tangible to offer, and there has already been a significant passage of time with no end in sight.  Paragon Chat, and Icon are fine to keep the spark of hope alive for those of us who know about it, but without something the average user can identify with, the degradation of the brand will continue.  Up 'till now, we have gone forward primarily on faith, but you can only depend on faith for so long.

I will be here if it returns no matter what.  Not everyone who ever played will necessarily do so.

I've commented on the CoH fanbase before.

It was a good sized and faithful fanbase prior to shutdown.

Since the shutdown some attrition had to have occurred.

Some have moved on, not to sound overly grim but some may have left this world.

Some may not be interested in returning.

Some may not return IF NCSoft has ANY shred of control over the game when it does return.  This IS something to consider. If NCSOFT just wants their logo on the game login screen and nothing else, that's fine with me. IF NCSOFT retains shutdown authority over the game when it returns.....well that may not be so fine for some.  NCSOFT ticked off many players of the game with the shutdown and didn't even try to rig up a COH-zombie server to keep things running. That did upset some of the fans and some I'm sure retain a rather biased view of NCSOFT ever since and won't touch their other games.  This could very well be a dealbreaker for some players.

Others are straining at the leash to log back in and start restoring characters. :)

However when the game does return I suspect the gaming news sites will be reporting it with glee and fans will be spreading the word that the game is returning. 

[Soul Resonance]

I've commented on the CoH fanbase before.

It was a good sized and faithful fanbase prior to shutdown.

Since the shutdown some attrition had to have occurred.

Some have moved on, not to sound overly grim but some may have left this world.

Some may not be interested in returning.

Some may not return IF NCSoft has ANY shred of control over the game when it does return.  This IS something to consider. If NCSOFT just wants their logo on the game login screen and nothing else, that's fine with me. IF NCSOFT retains shutdown authority over the game when it returns.....well that may not be so fine for some.  NCSOFT ticked off many players of the game with the shutdown and didn't even try to rig up a COH-zombie server to keep things running. That did upset some of the fans and some I'm sure retain a rather biased view of NCSOFT ever since and won't touch their other games.  This could very well be a dealbreaker for some players.

Others are straining at the leash to log back in and start restoring characters. :)

However when the game does return I suspect the gaming news sites will be reporting it with glee and fans will be spreading the word that the game is returning.

^
Ayup! :D, I know I will(atleast irl  ;D. Not too sure about any in-game channels for other MMOs  :-\.)
P.S: I found out that generally, the in-game community of CoH players in CO are largely misinformed or unaware of the deal to get the game back..interesting ???

[Teikiatsu]

I can understand the desire to have CoH back. I'm here because I miss it and want it back too.

What I *don't* understand is the lack of interest in any of the possible successors. Why? Remember, if/when CoH get resurrected, it will be an unchanging, static world. It will be I23 forever. APR may one day replace it but that will be a long time to come and APR will not be I23, dotted eye for dotted eye, because without the source code, it can't be. So, a living, growing world will not be CoX; close maybe, but not the same.  Therefore, why not any of the successors?

Is is because you were burned by CO?
Is it because the CoX lore won't be there?
Is it because powers may not work exactly the same?
What?

I put money towards CoT, and I've been in the testing for VO.  APR also intrigues me.  But I want to go back to Paragon.

I never played CO.  I could care less about the CoX lore.  Maybe it's the powers, but they were not the entirety of the game.

For me, it was the community of players and the means to communicate with them on global channels.  Some players will return to CoX, others will go to the successors.  I'll be happy to be able to cooperatively play with all of you guys again.  In time, there will likely be migrations and we'll see what happens.

[scope.creep]

I like to be optimistic because I look at the progress we've made so far from the start-date in such a short time.

What progress have we made? Serious question.

Icon and Paragon Chat are from CodeWalker et al., as I understand it anyway (apologies across the board if that is incorrect). Does that count as progress towards getting back CoH? I guess, but sometimes I wonder about a C&D letter and what happens then?

Does a "^^^ This!" response hinting at NDAs count as progress? There's not a lot to hang one's hat on there...


Not exactly related, but something I have wondered. I have signed exactly one NDA agreement, that being related to CoV. I am not experienced in the ways of the NDA. Has anyone ever seen a NDA that specifies an unlimited duration? Or that under certain conditions, the non-disclosure part becomes permanent? (Could one even acknowledge it, given the existence of such a broad NDA?) I suppose that anything is possible, but would you sign something like that? How big would the carrot need to be?

[LaughingAlex]

I agree, but only to a point. 

The advantage that CO has in this scenario is that it is still out there, live, and accessible.  For those outside the faithful (meaning us), CoH is just a memory of a game already gone for 3 years that fades a little more every day.  My fear is that if things don't happen before too much longer, there might not be enough of us left to keep it afloat for very long in the even that it does return.  That is not an observation born of impatience, or depression.  Just one that recognizes that market values degrade with the passage of time without something tangible to offer, and there has already been a significant passage of time with no end in sight.  Paragon Chat, and Icon are fine to keep the spark of hope alive for those of us who know about it, but without something the average user can identify with, the degradation of the brand will continue.  Up 'till now, we have gone forward primarily on faith, but you can only depend on faith for so long.

I will be here if it returns no matter what.  Not everyone who ever played will necessarily do so.

I wouldnt call CO's still running as an advantage.  After everything it has done(community and devs both), its not even a game anymore.  It runs for the wrong reasons; cryptic just never shut it down when its both a stain and it fully deserves the ill rep for its bait and switch scams.  And course the only people left anymore are either fools, in denial to the facts, or trolls.  In terms of community it has nothing left.  Because it was never allowed to grow its beard and the forum...id call them cultists now, never allowed it to grow that beard in the first place.  It was never really allowed to change in any positive direction.

CoX is is a game shut down but still has a community that has a lot left.  It has talents either making spiritual successors, or trying to get the game back.  It has far more sensible people than CO could ever dream of.  Because we didn't have a game that encouraged negative behavior.  We had a game that grew the beard and became awesome after a few years.  And while one could say ED was a bad thing, i think paragon studios rolled with that punch really well after.  City of had the benefit of good developers after its third year that CO never got...

...and i think us seeing the spiritual successors and efforts to get it back in a way were inspired by that.  If the game had never grown its beard, i know it'd never have such the efforts going on for it.  It'd have been yet anouher generic game meeting some death or anouther with a ton of negative, pessimistic trolls claiming to be major fans of the game while keeping it from ever achieving anything.  And it'd be crippled by paralyzed developers who'd never get anything right and so end up resorting to the underhanded tactics we see some games resorting to.

...and i don't think we'd be seeing these efforts taking place in any form if it was forced down that route.

Edit: No, I'd rather not talk further of it here.

[Azrael]

I think somebody somewhere else insinuated that Paragon Studioes/Cryptic were somewhat culpable in their downfall.

That's an interesting viewpoint.

So I wrote this...

Quote from: Paragon Avenger on Today at 02:54:06 am
Too many to list, but a whole lot less than in other, lesser, games.
(IMHO)

I'd agree with that.  Contemplating the naval while Rome burns comes to mind.  But Cryptic/Paragon did some very good work.  The basics of the game.  The Archetypes.  The 1-50 levelling.  Combat.  Interface.  The zones were terrific works of art.  The mobs.  The diversity of powers, mobs, combat types and teaming was so, so simple and fun and amazingly diverse.  No trinity or 'one way' to play.

The ITF was a great piece of post - Cryptic work.

Less successful for me? 

CoV.  Sideways move.  'Pressing' limited resources over twice the area.  Rather than filling the 'empty' zones with MORE content. :D
Rogue.  Compounding this error.  More great zones.  Beta tested mission content.  (So my Duo partner thought...)
Incarnates.  A fracture rather than a progression.  (Not like the game I'd come to recognise at all...like a pre-op for CoH 2.)
Lack of moving to a modern gaming engine.  Some say the graphics were starting to look dated.  (Me?  I just loved how it played.)
Mission types.  All seemed to familiar after doing 1-50 a few times.
NOT going back to original archeyptes sooner and making them 'more so.'
Perhaps not creating individual archetype mission arcs for 1-50 for each type.  (A lot of work?  Better than closing down.  The 1-50 journey was too samey for some.)
Game was too slow.  (Too fast for me.  But slow for others?  But why not allow one server to switch on perma Hasten for all as inherent.  SB buff as inherent for all who want to play that fast.  Me?  I'd just slip around maps with that...)

Hmm.  Key expansions?  Sideways moves that didn't build on the core game in the right way.  Splintered the player base...while not really addressing.  Not adequately building on what made the core game so great.

...and for the money invested...did these 'key expansions' give a return of investment for NC Soft in terms of revenue and play base expansion?

Worse.  Did(?) some things alienate key parts of the player base that didn't come back. 

Subjective opinions.  But they can cause erosion of a player base.

Some may disagree.  But how come CoH is dead while some dreadful mediocre MMOs still survive.

Was it a lack of advertising by NC Soft only?  Cultural?  Politics.  Egos.  Fickle MMO fans?  Lessons learned too little too late?

What was it that stopped the player base expanding?  The revenue growing?  A stalemate of holding pattern development while two other projects struggled to gain development traction?

Some may say Paragon was doing more and greater work than ever before.  And when you add it up...they sure did 'a lot.'  But was it the right kind of 'a lot?'


Azrael.

PS.

I just don't feel like there are any successors.They can try to emulate the game play or think they can make it better but COH and only COH has what I want.Even unchanging COH will be more fun and satisfying than any game on the market.I'm making builds and costumes with Mid's and Icon when I could be playing other games.That says it all.VO and COT are made by fans but they can't recapture or remake what I'm missing in
COH.As far as APR is concerned,I would still play COH.Maybe I'm just not like other people chasing the new shiny.

This.

Quote from: worldweary on Today at 02:00:41 am
There is no need to play something that feels,looks or plays like COH.We have COH.We just need it back.

And this.  When we get CoH back?  All I need. :) 

*Thinks of Hyper-kinetic En/En Turbo Recharge build...Blap...bblap....torrent...swift close to...blap....ex-blast...energy thrust...insta snipe...


PpS.  Kudos to the Spiritual Successors.  Credit for their effort.  All efforts tell us something about CoH's community.  I'm keeping an eye on them and will check them out.  But CoH's return is the ideal option.

I keep an eye on Heroes and Villains.  City of Titans.  Valliance?  Not bothered about a 'cyber' future.  They can have all the fancy graphics in the world but if they don't have the simple, easy pick up and casual play and 'kinetic' feel of the combat they've had it in my book.  At least as far as I'm concerned.

CoH IS a hard act to follow.  (As Cryptic proved with Champions Online.)

PPPS.  CO?  Meh.

[Angel Phoenix77]

I think somebody somewhere else insinuated that Paragon Studioes/Cryptic were somewhat culpable in their downfall.

That's an interesting viewpoint.

So I wrote this...

I'd agree with that.  Contemplating the naval while Rome burns comes to mind.  But Cryptic/Paragon did some very good work.  The basics of the game.  The Archetypes.  The 1-50 levelling.  Combat.  Interface.  The zones were terrific works of art.  The mobs.  The diversity of powers, mobs, combat types and teaming was so, so simple and fun and amazingly diverse.  No trinity or 'one way' to play.

The ITF was a great piece of post - Cryptic work.

Less successful for me? 

CoV.  Sideways move.  'Pressing' limited resources over twice the area.  Rather than filling the 'empty' zones with MORE content. :D
Rogue.  Compounding this error.  More great zones.  Beta tested mission content.  (So my Duo partner thought...)
Incarnates.  A fracture rather than a progression.  (Not like the game I'd come to recognise at all...like a pre-op for CoH 2.)
Lack of moving to a modern gaming engine.  Some say the graphics were starting to look dated.  (Me?  I just loved how it played.)
Mission types.  All seemed to familiar after doing 1-50 a few times.
NOT going back to original archeyptes sooner and making them 'more so.'
Perhaps not creating individual archetype mission arcs for 1-50 for each type.  (A lot of work?  Better than closing down.  The 1-50 journey was too samey for some.)
Game was too slow.  (Too fast for me.  But slow for others?  But why not allow one server to switch on perma Hasten for all as inherent.  SB buff as inherent for all who want to play that fast.  Me?  I'd just slip around maps with that...)

Hmm.  Key expansions?  Sideways moves that didn't build on the core game in the right way.  Splintered the player base...while not really addressing.  Not adequately building on what made the core game so great.

...and for the money invested...did these 'key expansions' give a return of investment for NC Soft in terms of revenue and play base expansion?

Worse.  Did(?) some things alienate key parts of the player base that didn't come back. 

Subjective opinions.  But they can cause erosion of a player base.

Some may disagree.  But how come CoH is dead while some dreadful mediocre MMOs still survive.

Was it a lack of advertising by NC Soft only?  Cultural?  Politics.  Egos.  Fickle MMO fans?  Lessons learned too little too late?

What was it that stopped the player base expanding?  The revenue growing?  A stalemate of holding pattern development while two other projects struggled to gain development traction?

Some may say Paragon was doing more and greater work than ever before.  And when you add it up...they sure did 'a lot.'  But was it the right kind of 'a lot?'


Azrael.

PS.

This.

And this.  When we get CoH back?  All I need. :) 

*Thinks of Hyper-kinetic En/En Turbo Recharge build...Blap...bblap....torrent...swift close to...blap....ex-blast...energy thrust...insta snipe...


PpS.  Kudos to the Spiritual Successors.  Credit for their effort.  All efforts tell us something about CoH's community.  I'm keeping an eye on them and will check them out.  But CoH's return is the ideal option.

I keep an eye on Heroes and Villains.  City of Titans.  Valliance?  Not bothered about a 'cyber' future.  They can have all the fancy graphics in the world but if they don't have the simple, easy pick up and casual play and 'kinetic' feel of the combat they've had it in my book.  At least as far as I'm concerned.

CoH IS a hard act to follow.  (As Cryptic proved with Champions Online.)

PPPS.  CO?  Meh.

Not to make a pancake but, champions was treated as a redheaded step child by cryptic/atarii, and pwe; as soon as sto came out I saw the writing on the wall for co as did many other players. While I agree City of. was a hard act to follow it was difficult. Champions had sooo much more going for it when it before launched; however, they squandered the chances to make co great. And this can be seen time and time again.

I personally will wait for City of. but I will keep an eye on Cot; VO however, is looking good but they soo much more time to work on it before they launch it.

[Soul Resonance]

What progress have we made? Serious question.

Icon and Paragon Chat are from CodeWalker et al., as I understand it anyway (apologies across the board if that is incorrect). Does that count as progress towards getting back CoH? I guess, but sometimes I wonder about a C&D letter and what happens then?

Does a "^^^ This!" response hinting at NDAs count as progress? There's not a lot to hang one's hat on there...


Not exactly related, but something I have wondered. I have signed exactly one NDA agreement, that being related to CoV. I am not experienced in the ways of the NDA. Has anyone ever seen a NDA that specifies an unlimited duration? Or that under certain conditions, the non-disclosure part becomes permanent? (Could one even acknowledge it, given the existence of such a broad NDA?) I suppose that anything is possible, but would you sign something like that? How big would the carrot need to be?

One sec:

UPDATE September 30 2015:


NO, WE DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT THE DEAL. YES, THEY ARE UNDER AN NDA. YES, EFFORTS ARE STILL ONGOING. STOP ASKING. JUST CHAT AND WAIT. THANKS.


----------------------------

Timeline of significant events:
.

The bold comments are direct communications from the team. I have edited them slightly to remove names and such.

Timeline:
March 6 - I get the information and start working on a way to possibly open source CoH.
March 12 - got letter back from Chris Chung - it showed that is WAS possible to buy the game.
March 13 - the team makes its first contact with me and says this: You are an evil, evil man. I'd given up hope after learning of the tax issue. Now here I am now grinning from ear to ear. Likely going to lead to heartbreak, but damned the torpedos. Full speed ahead.
March 21 - Honestly, we had given up hope. Now, you've given us hope, so we're discussing it.
March 28 - We have been reaching out and putting the proposal together. The concern has been the "Golden Handcuffs" option, being shackled to NCSoft again and having the sword of damocles once again hanging over our heads but this time knowing it is there.
April 5 - Made some headway. Now we know who we need to talk to, and a general idea of price. It is very doable.
April 16 - At the end we'll announce it one way or the other. For now it is just this silly business dance in order to reach [Redacted contact]
April 18 - Second studio expresses interest in the game
April 21 - investor expresses interest and is passed to the team
May 1 - third studio expresses interest in the game.
May 21 - I ask how the talks are going and if they are making the team jump through hoops:Stupid. Stupid amounts of hoops, as far as I know.
June 19 - Slow but not dead. Not a big deal, we were focusing on August anyhow.
June 24 - former paragon Dev contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 3 - Yesterday, we were directed to the man whose signature is needed.
July 3 - after MY reading WAAAY too much into the first message - Er... we're not days away from anything. We're just now in direct contact, which means we're past another hurdle. We still have at least two months of negotiations left ahead of us, at best. This is where the monsters truly do lie.
July 7 - another investor/studio contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 11- the fifth studio contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 24 - Direct quote: "we're working very hard on something to show someone. things will be quiet for a bit."
August 13 - Direct quote: Things are moving along. We should have things worth showing fairly soon, made a great leap forward yesterday.
September 1 - Nate Downs announces he's heading the efforts. They're actively in talks. It's going to take a while. Be patient.
----

^
There we go! :D. Okay so: At the...spring? of last year: nothing. by the end: at the final group/person needed to sign. I'd say that so far that's pretty good, considering nexon got all up in NC's business :P

[Felderburg]

In short it would have to really draw me in to want to play it. NOT simply be a successor looking to slurp up a grieving community.

Ouch.

[Paragon Avenger]

Yeah, we must be patient, but this timeline:
Timeline:
March 6 - I get the information and start working on a way to possibly open source CoH.
March 12 - got letter back from Chris Chung - it showed that is WAS possible to buy the game.
March 13 - the team makes its first contact with me and says this: You are an evil, evil man. I'd given up hope after learning of the tax issue. Now here I am now grinning from ear to ear. Likely going to lead to heartbreak, but damned the torpedos. Full speed ahead.
March 21 - Honestly, we had given up hope. Now, you've given us hope, so we're discussing it.
March 28 - We have been reaching out and putting the proposal together. The concern has been the "Golden Handcuffs" option, being shackled to NCSoft again and having the sword of damocles once again hanging over our heads but this time knowing it is there.
April 5 - Made some headway. Now we know who we need to talk to, and a general idea of price. It is very doable.
April 16 - At the end we'll announce it one way or the other. For now it is just this silly business dance in order to reach [Redacted contact]
April 18 - Second studio expresses interest in the game
April 21 - investor expresses interest and is passed to the team
May 1 - third studio expresses interest in the game.
May 21 - I ask how the talks are going and if they are making the team jump through hoops:Stupid. Stupid amounts of hoops, as far as I know.
June 19 - Slow but not dead. Not a big deal, we were focusing on August anyhow.
June 24 - former paragon Dev contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 3 - Yesterday, we were directed to the man whose signature is needed.
July 3 - after MY reading WAAAY too much into the first message - Er... we're not days away from anything. We're just now in direct contact, which means we're past another hurdle. We still have at least two months of negotiations left ahead of us, at best. This is where the monsters truly do lie.
July 7 - another investor/studio contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 11- the fifth studio contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 24 - Direct quote: "we're working very hard on something to show someone. things will be quiet for a bit."
August 13 - Direct quote: Things are moving along. We should have things worth showing fairly soon, made a great leap forward yesterday.
September 1 - Nate Downs announces he's heading the efforts. They're actively in talks. It's going to take a while. Be patient.

All those dates are from 2014.
The National Dairy Association kicked-in, and everybody's clammed-up.
(Cow's is big business.)

[Arcana]

Yeah, we must be patient, but this timeline:

That quote was not a response to the refrain to be patient, but the comment that no progress has been made.