New efforts!

[MM3squints]

what's a snow globe lore pet? Never heard of the "snow globe" part.

Snow Globe is a player with was from Triumph, there is no actual snow globe lore pet, unless the northern lights count.

[Talon Blue]

Happy New Year folks. Still waiting, still trying to be patient. Got the Witcher 3 for Christmas, should keep me busy for awhile. I noticed some City of Titans and Valiance Online news on MassivelyOP the last two or three days. Will we be playing a CoH-like MMO this year or CoH itself?

[Sihada]

Will we be playing a CoH-like MMO this year or CoH itself?

The more time that passes, the less likely it becomes that CoH will be resurrected.  If one of the "successors" gets to a stable Early Access release, then there is almost no shot for a successful return of CoH in any form.  Players aren't going to divide their time and multiply their spending to support two superhero MMOs that are duplicates of one another in many important ways.

If a player has to choose between a new superhero MMO at the beginning of its life or a dead superhero MMO living on nostalgia, most will choose the former.

I've been wishing and hoping really hard for a return of CoH, but I've resigned myself to the truth that it's not coming back.  It's been nearly a year since there's been any sort of substantive news on that front.  Yes, I know we all want to think that there are super-secret negotiations in progress that are so delicate that even acknowledging their existence could ruin them.  It's far more likely that this is at the absolute bottom of every priority list because it's a dead project with near-zero revenue potential.  It's just business.

[LaughingAlex]

Sounds like DWRoelands2 has come here to convince us something we know not only to be false but also that he's given up in these forums.

Firstly, the team would have told us by now if the negotiations have failed and would have found a way to do so if the negotiations have failed.  NDA is in effect because sadly some people couldn't keep quiet at some points :/.

Secondly, stop being a negative Nancy.

Thirdly, odds are it'll happen when you least expect it.

Fourth, don't listen to people in a certain competitor that it won't happen, from their behavior over the years those people want every thing to fail, not just the revival efforts.  They cannot handle competition, and they know it, so they speak poorly of everything every chance they get.  Playing their game is fine, but don't listen to anyone there.  They'll just drag you down.

Fifth, try playing other games here and there while your waiting.  Been having a lot of fun with Terraria and fallout 4 being a super powerful badass :).

I know, I know, but it was so tempting to post something here and you wanted to express yourself.  I don't blame ya, but really there isn't a reason to be negative about it.  Especially when we've all also been informed that we'd be told if it failed.  There has been no word of that, so I'd assume the contrary, that it likely is, but slow right now.  But business works that way to, it can go slowly.

[Sihada]

Sounds like DWRoelands2 has come here to convince us something we know not only to be false but also that he's given up in these forums.

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.  I'm taking part in the conversation, which is what forums are supposed to be for.  If there's some rule against expressing an unpopular/negative opinion, please point me to it and I'll adjust my behavior accordingly.

I don't blame ya, but really there isn't a reason to be negative about it.

I would agree with you if there were updates or results, but there aren't.  I'm not taking anyone to task or scolding anyone or blaming anyone for anything.  It's no one's fault.  It's just the state of affairs.  We have no data about the state of the project except this: there have been no updates for almost a year.  If you think that's a reason for optimism, rock on.

[Soul Resonance]

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.  I'm taking part in the conversation, which is what forums are supposed to be for.  If there's some rule against expressing an unpopular/negative opinion, please point me to it and I'll adjust my behavior accordingly.

I would agree with you if there were updates or results, but there aren't.  I'm not taking anyone to task or scolding anyone or blaming anyone for anything.  It's no one's fault.  It's just the state of affairs.  We have no data about the state of the project except this: there have been no updates for almost a year.  If you think that's a reason for optimism, rock on.

It'll be a year in March, though I understand where your coming from. I like to be optimistic because I look at the progress we've made so far from the start-date in such a short time.

[LaughingAlex]

I'm not here to convince anyone of anything.  I'm taking part in the conversation, which is what forums are supposed to be for.  If there's some rule against expressing an unpopular/negative opinion, please point me to it and I'll adjust my behavior accordingly.

I would agree with you if there were updates or results, but there aren't.  I'm not taking anyone to task or scolding anyone or blaming anyone for anything.  It's no one's fault.  It's just the state of affairs.  We have no data about the state of the project except this: there have been no updates for almost a year.  If you think that's a reason for optimism, rock on.

I'm optimistic because I refuse to be a pessimist.  Especially since I know games like CoH don't remain dead.  The fallout series is a good example of a series that got brought back into light after being "dead" for years.  Every good series has it's revival, somewhere.  We have city of titans to look forward to, which helps also feed my optimism.  Valiance online helps.  Knowing the state of the industry not really improving and the fact that there usually is a light at the end of the tunnel also helps.

Lets think and look at mmorpg facts; City of heroes was a UNIQUE game among a bunch of copy cats, one.

MMORPGs have not seen any innovation since CoH.  Only Guild wars 2, maybe, even then it was a fantasy game.

MMORPG's cannot sustainably keep making the same games over and over again :/.

This means that naturally that trend will come to an end and games will have to innovate again to avoid failing after the collapse inevitably occurs from an unsustainable model.

[Big King]

Players aren't going to divide their time and multiply their spending to support two superhero MMOs that are duplicates of one another in many important ways.

I certainly am! I plan to fully subscribe to every Hail Mary effort that successfully launches: CoT, VO, APR, and legacy CoH. To boot, if I could snap my fingers and bring one live, it would be legacy CoH, so I expect that will be the last one I would stop supporting.

While I understand your point that the majority of *casual* players would not do this, I tend to believe that the majority of folks watching this thread don't fall in that category.

Even if I end up not enjoying one of the options as much, I appreciate their effort enough to financially support them. It's not just what they're doing, but how they are doing it that makes me want to give them my money. From some of their posts over the past week, it sounds like VO and CoT are rooting for each other, despite the fact that they are competitors.

[worldweary]

I'm a casual player and I'll continue to wait for COH.I'm not interested in VO or COT.

[Soul Resonance]

I'm a casual player and I'll continue to wait for COH.I'm not interested in VO or COT.

^
This

[kiario]

The realistic side of me does not think coh is coming back anymore. But that does not make me a pessimist or?

[Stitchified]

I'm optimistic because I refuse to be a pessimist.

Lemme start off by saying that this, this is something I agree with 100%.

Here's a question that I've been thinking about:
Isn't the fact that there has been no news both good and bad?
I mean, I find it Good because it means the NDA is still in effect thus meaning there's still a chance for CoH/CoV to come back but Bad because well, CoH/CoV hasn't come back yet

To be fair though, I can see why people would be giving up hope on CoH/CoV coming back, I'm the only one out of my parents and older brother who is still holding out hope for Coh/CoV coming back.

[Brigadine]

I'm a casual player and I'll continue to wait for COH.I'm not interested in VO or COT.

I feel the same way. It is CoH or nothing.

[Brigadine]

Lemme start off by saying that this, this is something I agree with 100%.

Here's a question that I've been thinking about:
Isn't the fact that there has been no news both good and bad?
I mean, I find it Good because it means the NDA is still in effect thus meaning there's still a chance for CoH/CoV to come back but Bad because well, CoH/CoV hasn't come back yet

To be fair though, I can see why people would be giving up hope on CoH/CoV coming back, I'm the only one out of my parents and older brother who is still holding out hope for Coh/CoV coming back.

I mean this should not be taking this long if NCsoft was in good faith...

[Brigadine]

Doesn't Cryptic have a stake in this too? The game bears their markings as well. By NCsoft devaluing CoH they might be harming cryptic. I could be speaking nonsense but it could be something.

[Arcana]

The more time that passes, the less likely it becomes that CoH will be resurrected.

Not sure why that would be true.  I think the lack of information simply means the probability is the same.

Consider how long after shutdown that Codewalker released Paragon Chat.  Would you say that the longer time had passed after shutdown, the less likely it was that anyone would release such a program?  Maybe yes, maybe no.  If you knew no one was working on one, the longer time passed the less likely it might be that someone would suddenly want to start.  But if you knew someone was working on such a thing in secret, then the more time passed the *more* likely it would be that such a program would be released, because more time meant more time to work on it.

If one of the "successors" gets to a stable Early Access release, then there is almost no shot for a successful return of CoH in any form.  Players aren't going to divide their time and multiply their spending to support two superhero MMOs that are duplicates of one another in many important ways.

Depends on your definition of success.  Will it be like it was at shutdown?  I think that's extremely unlikely.  Most of our casual player population has certainly moved on.  But could it be run as a small niche MMO profitably?  Well, the costs to operate such a game have plummeted since launch, and even since shutdown.

Yes, I know we all want to think that there are super-secret negotiations in progress that are so delicate that even acknowledging their existence could ruin them.  It's far more likely that this is at the absolute bottom of every priority list because it's a dead project with near-zero revenue potential.

That's a bit of a straw man.  No one is saying that there's some ultra more-delicate-than-normal negotiations going on.  What knowledgeable-in-general people are saying is that NDA-silenced negotiations are not uncommon but the norm, and negotiations taking a long time are also not uncommon, albeit generally when those negotiations involve things that the principal company(ies) aren't treating as a high priority (as this particular one likely is not).

I don't know how you would be able to state with any confidence that the project is dead with a high degree of likelihood, except by relying on assumptions that are not true in practice.

[SilverAgeFan]

Snow Globe is a player with was from Triumph, there is no actual snow globe lore pet, unless the northern lights count.

I miss playing with Snow. Loved her/his leadership.

[zaran]

I'm a casual player and I'll continue to wait for COH.I'm not interested in VO or COT.

I can understand the desire to have CoH back. I'm here because I miss it and want it back too.

What I *don't* understand is the lack of interest in any of the possible successors. Why? Remember, if/when CoH get resurrected, it will be an unchanging, static world. It will be I23 forever. APR may one day replace it but that will be a long time to come and APR will not be I23, dotted eye for dotted eye, because without the source code, it can't be. So, a living, growing world will not be CoX; close maybe, but not the same.  Therefore, why not any of the successors?

Is is because you were burned by CO?
Is it because the CoX lore won't be there?
Is it because powers may not work exactly the same?
What?

I want as many of the people I interacted with in CoX to be with me wherever the new home (or homes) is. I would be disappointed if new games, possibly even a better game, were dismissed without being given a shot.

[MM3squints]

I miss playing with Snow. Loved her/his leadership.

I just miss playing on Triumph, where you didn't need a SG, all you needed was HUB

[Power Gamer]

I can understand the desire to have CoH back. I'm here because I miss it and want it back too.

What I *don't* understand is the lack of interest in any of the possible successors. Why? Remember, if/when CoH get resurrected, it will be an unchanging, static world. It will be I23 forever. APR may one day replace it but that will be a long time to come and APR will not be I23, dotted eye for dotted eye, because without the source code, it can't be. So, a living, growing world will not be CoX; close maybe, but not the same.  Therefore, why not any of the successors?

Is is because you were burned by CO?
Is it because the CoX lore won't be there?
Is it because powers may not work exactly the same?
What?

I want as many of the people I interacted with in CoX to be with me wherever the new home (or homes) is. I would be disappointed if new games, possibly even a better game, were dismissed without being given a shot.

It is true that CO did NOT deliver the expected experience IMO.
I like the CoX lore, but lore isn't the issue. If I was really attached to lore I'd play DCO or even Marvel.
I'm not sure that power mechanics would be that much of an issue for me, as CoX was my first MMO and to date the only one I played for any significant length.

I suppose what I would be looking for in a spiritual successor would be a focus on the comic-book genre. If the feeling of the game is more like a comic, I'm more likely to stick with it.

CO had good design in the LOOK of the window dressing so to speak. But I didn't care for the mechanics of the game or the look of the toons or the costume creator. I never felt immersed in the story, and I wanted to be. I played table top CO when it came out a LOOOONG time ago, so I was pre-disposed to its environment. But it failed IMO.

DCO had good character design, got you involved in the world right away, teamed you up with iconic characters right away. It did a lot right, but in the end I just could not stomach destructible gear, low limits of cash for non-premium players and other stonewalling activities meant to wrestle cash out of your pocket.

CoX got quite a bit of my money. I had a few accounts, I bought all the expansions as well as the packs for each account because they integrated well but were NOT game breaking if I didn't want them. I guess because I didn't have any expectation of what an MMO would be, that helped me to stick with the game, AND the extraordinarily friendly and helpful community. CO and others lack these components and IMO are the antithesis of it.

CoX did have issues, but they were not so glaring as to interrupt the vast majority of my game play.

Successors will have a lot to live up to, and maybe that is not fair. Yet I would jump at playing CoX without any regret.

Successors need to be better then CoX, more comic-genre oriented, more friendly and helpful, with an engaging window dressing and background. Flashy combat that is simple enough for newbies to be successful and yet intricate enough to challenge even the most experienced warrior.

In short it would have to really draw me in to want to play it. NOT simply be a successor looking to slurp up a grieving community.