New efforts!

[Arcana]

I thought I had read that the most recent research suggests that the brain doesn't do a lot of these calculations and actually operates more on instinct and past experiences to estimate where free-moving objects will go.

The brain has multiple means of determining how far away something is, and some clearly involve direct calculation, although not necessarily calculation as computers do it.  Stereoscopic vision allows for determining range based on the feedback from muscles in the eyes which have to pull the eyes together to aim at the target.  That's a calculation, albeit possibly an analog one.  However, there are other visual processing that attempt to extract depth from the visual field itself (what the eyes see).  And of course, those can be fooled.  We sometimes think we see depth when there isn't, or perceive a different depth field than is actually there, due to optical illusions.  This visual processing work is often referred to as "calculations" as well, although they are not calculations in the traditional sense, digital or analog.

[Arcana]

Out of curiosity, are clouds and other condensates represented by metric tensors?

Not that I'm aware of.  Metric tensors operate on manifolds.  Normally, we consider clouds to be three dimensional volumes, not three dimensional surfaces in four space.  I'm not sure what you could possibly get out of transforming a cloud into a manifold and then computing its metric tensor.  A headache, probably.

[Eskreema]

I was thinking about clouds as a result of a differential in temperature and humidity from two weather fronts - the greater the difference the more precipitation.  I thought the rate of change of droplet of water size (resultant precipitation) could be considered as a manifestation of metric tensor value/solution or maybe an affine space/connection.  If you hadn't heard of it then I'll just stick to convention.

Edit/Update:  found an article on differential crystal formation from solute precipitation over time.  I'll read that an stop this.

[Azrael]

I'd like to try...a Dark Melee, Reflexes tank.

Almost defence capped out the box...and thou canst Debuff mob accuracy?

Azrael.

PS.  Cap can bounce his shield because he's Cap.  He's been 'slinging' it for decades and he's superhuman.  Suspension of disbelief.  No need to extract the blood out the stone on this one.  There's far more improbable things in the Kirby Universe than a bouncing shield.  I once read a book that tried to subject the key Silver Age Kirby and Ditko heroes to scientific scrutiny.  Enough to say that the author was a party pooper of balloon popping proportions.  Yes...we know it's not real, folks.  That's why people tend to 'escape' into it.

[Arcana]

I'd like to try...a Dark Melee, Reflexes tank.

Almost defence capped out the box...and thou canst Debuff mob accuracy?

Almost?  Well, technically yes.

Toggles: 18.5%
Passives: 7.5%

Both 3-slotted with just even SOs, applying ED: 26% * 1.56 = 40.56.

Are you willing to take combat jump?

28.5% * 1.56 = 44.46%.

Willing to four-slot toggles?

18.5 * 1.59 + 7.5 * 1.56 + 2.5 * 1.56 = 45.015%.

Willing to use a combination of SOs and cheap sets?  This will get you to 45% melee, 44.8% ranged, 44.4% AoE, and capped defense debuff resistance, with reasonable offense.  At level 27.

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 49 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(3), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(3), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), S'dpty-EndRdx(27)
Level 1: Beheader -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(5), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(7), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7)
Level 2: Chop -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg(9), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(11), GftotA-Def(13), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(13)
Level 6: Gash -- P'ngS'Fest-Acc/Dmg(A), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/EndRdx(17), P'ngS'Fest-Dmg/Rchg(21)
Level 8: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(15)
Level 10: Taunt -- Acc(A)
Level 12: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(17), DefBuff(21)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(15)
Level 16: Build Up -- RechRdx(A)
Level 18: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(19), DefBuff(19)
Level 20: Swoop -- Acc(A)
Level 22: Evasion -- S'dpty-Def(A), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(23), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(23), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(25), S'dpty-EndRdx(27)
Level 24: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(25)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 28: [Empty]
Level 30: [Empty]
Level 32: [Empty]
Level 35: [Empty]
Level 38: [Empty]
Level 41: [Empty]
Level 44: [Empty]
Level 47: [Empty]
Level 49: [Empty]
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- Empty(A)
------------

[Vee]

PS.  Cap can bounce his shield because he's Cap.  He's been 'slinging' it for decades and he's superhuman.  Suspension of disbelief.

Pretty sure all of us are willing to suspend disbelief on Cap's shield slinging. This was all brought up in the context of 'hey coh, y u no shield throw' and the idea that it'd be nigh impossible to have even a stripped down version, much less anything like what Cap does. Even as awesome as that power was in Ultimate Alliance it was nowhere close to the comics or cartoons and the shield still had to magically reappear on his arm for spamming purposes. And their attempts to improve it for MUA2 were one of the many misses in that game, and those games were being made from (basically) scratch. Adding it into the existing coh architecture in any sort of satisfactory way would have been a huge undertaking, especially for a defense set that already had a great offensive power. I'm sure they would have done a shield offensive set if it were at all possible.

[Arcana]

PS.  Cap can bounce his shield because he's Cap.  He's been 'slinging' it for decades and he's superhuman.  Suspension of disbelief.  No need to extract the blood out the stone on this one.  There's far more improbable things in the Kirby Universe than a bouncing shield.  I once read a book that tried to subject the key Silver Age Kirby and Ditko heroes to scientific scrutiny.  Enough to say that the author was a party pooper of balloon popping proportions.  Yes...we know it's not real, folks.  That's why people tend to 'escape' into it.

First, as long as you don't drive yourself crazy over it, there's nothing wrong with discussing how something fictional might work.  Second, suspension of disbelief is not a panacea.  You could say that about every single fictional thing, regardless of content.  Suspension of disbelief alone would argue that there exists no such thing as more and less believable fiction.  That's why in the first Iron Man movie the first suit of armor was not as good as the second one, even though both use unobtainium to power them.  You suspend disbelief that the arc reactor is possible, and Tony Stark is smart enough to invent it.  But then if you keep stacking suspension on top of suspension, you run the risk of the fictional world having no rules at all.  And a fictional world with no rules is uninteresting: there can be no drama if you cannot extrapolate what might happen next.

If you say it can't possibly work so its stupid, you probably are a party pooper.  But if you say there's no obvious way it could possibly work, so there must be something else involved, that's just good speculation.  How Cap throws his shield with the accuracy that he does is a potentially harder question than how the shield behaves as it does.  It suggests that what "peak human performance" is in the Marvel Cinematic Universe is not what it is in the regular normal universe.  We see this all the time: James Bond has absorbed more damage than any human being could and still function.  But James Bond is not a superhuman in the fictional world of Bond.  James Bond is an incredibly determined and skilled person in the world of Bond, and in the world of Bond incredibly determined and skilled people can do all the things Bond does.

Sometimes, asking how things could possibly be the way they are yields valuable fruit.  Nitpicking the question "how is it that whenever someone gets hit by lightning, irradiated, exposed to hazardous chemicals, or just falls in the shower in the Marvel Universe they often spontaneously sprout superpowers instead of just die" led to the story Earth-X, where the premise is that what we know as humanity isn't really the original humanity, but rather all "normal" humans are descendants of beings manipulated by the Celestials to act as a future defense of the planet which is harboring a Celestial embryo.  Why are humans so susceptible to becoming superpowered?  Because the blueprint for powers is in our DNA.  Why Earth?  Because the Celestials planted an egg in the planet eons ago when they first visited.

Comic books, like all speculative fiction, asks the question "what if?"  You can't ask what if, and not expect your readers to ask the follow up question: "how come?"

[Sinistar]

Just rewatched a classic episode of the Fourth Doctor called Underworld.

In it the people used shields that also had a laser emitted in the center of the shield.
I began to think about if that could be applied to the Shield power set in CoH in place of shield throw.  Doesn't seem like it could work, but I could be in error.

[Winter Fable]

Almost?  Well, technically yes.

Toggles: 18.5%
Passives: 7.5%

Both 3-slotted with just even SOs, applying ED: 26% * 1.56 = 40.56.

Are you willing to take combat jump?

28.5% * 1.56 = 44.46%.

Willing to four-slot toggles?

18.5 * 1.59 + 7.5 * 1.56 + 2.5 * 1.56 = 45.015%.

Willing to use a combination of SOs and cheap sets?  This will get you to 45% melee, 44.8% ranged, 44.4% AoE, and capped defense debuff resistance, with reasonable offense.  At level 27.

You have melee,ranged and aoe.Is my memory bad or didn't we only need one.If you had 45% melee that's what it checked even at range.

[blacksly]

PS.  Cap can bounce his shield because he's Cap.  He's been 'slinging' it for decades and he's superhuman.  Suspension of disbelief.  No need to extract the blood out the stone on this one.  There's far more improbable things in the Kirby Universe than a bouncing shield.

Right. Most of the super strength characters, especially Superman, cannot lift the things that they lift, because the things would fall apart in their hands. Pick up and throw a bus? No, you'd pull the bumper off the bus and throw it, or whatever other part of the bus you tried to use to "pick it up". Just as a quick example.

[Fanta]

You have melee,ranged and aoe.Is my memory bad or didn't we only need one.If you had 45% melee that's what it checked even at range.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Defense

[Battlechimp]

Pretty sure all of us are willing to suspend disbelief on Cap's shield slinging. This was all brought up in the context of 'hey coh, y u no shield throw' and the idea that it'd be nigh impossible to have even a stripped down version, much less anything like what Cap does. Even as awesome as that power was in Ultimate Alliance it was nowhere close to the comics or cartoons and the shield still had to magically reappear on his arm for spamming purposes. And their attempts to improve it for MUA2 were one of the many misses in that game, and those games were being made from (basically) scratch. Adding it into the existing coh architecture in any sort of satisfactory way would have been a huge undertaking, especially for a defense set that already had a great offensive power. I'm sure they would have done a shield offensive set if it were at all possible.

Part of it might also be skirtting copyright with Cap as far as throwing the shield and having it come back.  Back in the late 90's Leifeld bought the rights to, and started publishing The Fighting American.  Yes, a patriotic hero that used a shield.  He got sued by Marvel.  Part of the settlement with Marvel included the wings on his head had to go, he could not have the cuffs on his gloves and boots.  And he could not throw his shield with the ricochet back to him thing going on. 

So with all the previous hassle from Marvel and combine that with all the technical details mentioned by Arcana.  It was probably deemed, just not worth the hassle

[Sinistar]

Part of it might also be skirtting copyright with Cap as far as throwing the shield and having it come back.  Back in the late 90's Leifeld bought the rights to, and started publishing The Fighting American.  Yes, a patriotic hero that used a shield.  He got sued by Marvel.  Part of the settlement with Marvel included the wings on his head had to go, he could not have the cuffs on his gloves and boots.  And he could not throw his shield with the ricochet back to him thing going on. 

So with all the previous hassle from Marvel and combine that with all the technical details mentioned by Arcana.  It was probably deemed, just not worth the hassle

Yet DCUO has a shield power with throwing and returning.   

That being said, I can see CoH wanting to be careful to avoid more trouble with Marvel and thus not have shield throw due to all the Captain America clones. Of course there were clones anyway....

Also any new owners of COH will still have to likely walk on eggshells regarding DC and Marvel and character cloning so shield throw may still never be added in even after revival.  Unless they make adjustments to the costume creator to prevent shield users from being red white and blue but I doubt that will happen.

[Vee]

Back in the late 90's Leifeld bought the rights to, and started publishing The Fighting American.  Yes, a patriotic hero that used a shield.  He got sued by Marvel. 

He messed up by not making the wings part of an elaborate mullet and adding a shiny eye.

[Arcana]

You have melee,ranged and aoe.Is my memory bad or didn't we only need one.If you had 45% melee that's what it checked even at range.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Defense

If you want my short answer, the short answer is that attacks checked against the highest defense you had verses the attack tags of the attack.  So if the attack was tagged "Melee, Smashing" then you got to use the highest of your melee and smashing defense totals.  You did not get to use Ranged defense, because that attack was not typed Ranged.  So if someone shot a bullet at you and that attack was typed "Ranged, Lethal" you had better have at least one of those types of defense (if you are relying on defense).  I didn't write it, but I was the source for most of the authors of it.

If you want my long answer, read the linked article above.

[darkgob]

Part of it might also be skirtting copyright with Cap as far as throwing the shield and having it come back.  Back in the late 90's Leifeld bought the rights to, and started publishing The Fighting American.  Yes, a patriotic hero that used a shield.  He got sued by Marvel.  Part of the settlement with Marvel included the wings on his head had to go, he could not have the cuffs on his gloves and boots.  And he could not throw his shield with the ricochet back to him thing going on. 

So with all the previous hassle from Marvel and combine that with all the technical details mentioned by Arcana.  It was probably deemed, just not worth the hassle

Fighting American had much larger issues than simply being "another shield-throwing character".  He was pretty much a blatant rip-off of Captain America in every way.  If CoH could get away with an entire Claws powerset then I think we would have been fine with shield-richoteting (from a purely legal perspective).

[rezulin]

We had a "throw Frisbee Flying Disk" power.  Modify the throw disk power to use current shield object.  Since any time one used an attack power that missed, the attack didn't just fizzle (hated that mechanic in other MMOs) it went somewhere.  So, combine the 2.  Throw the shield, it hits, grants a temporary power to the target that immediately fires a non-damaging throw shield power back to the owner ala throw disk.  If the attack misses, the attack has an endpoint, and a direction that it missed to.  Spawn an invisible pseudo pet there to throw it back, and call it umm  . . .  magnetics!  Yeah, that should work. 

Fuegocito

[Eskreema]

We had a "throw Frisbee Flying Disk" power.  Modify the throw disk power to use current shield object.  Since any time one used an attack power that missed, the attack didn't just fizzle (hated that mechanic in other MMOs) it went somewhere.  So, combine the 2.  Throw the shield, it hits, grants a temporary power to the target that immediately fires a non-damaging throw shield power back to the owner ala throw disk.  If the attack misses, the attack has an endpoint, and a direction that it missed to.  Spawn an invisible pseudo pet there to throw it back, and call it umm  . . .  magnetics!  Yeah, that should work. 

Fuegocito

I loved flying disc because it was the only power that interrupted the target - mag 5 annoyance.  Anyway good thinking.  Could possibly spawn the pseudo-pet on your location after some interval so the path would just loop?  I dunno, just guessing

[Arcana]

I loved flying disc because it was the only power that interrupted the target - mag 5 annoyance.

I'm not sure what you mean by that, but there were powers that did strange things to targets that were odd side effects of the way the power worked, separate from the power's explicit power effects.  For example, powers like Poison Gas Arrow could pseudo-mez the targets by forcing them to play the gag animation.  If I recall correctly, that animation was rooted which prevented them from doing anything else while it played (at least, I never saw a target break that animation to fire an attack immediately: I never actually checked the technicals).

Could possibly spawn the pseudo-pet on your location after some interval so the path would just loop?  I dunno, just guessing

Somewhere, every member of the Paragon Studios powers team just collectively gagged on their lunch and is wondering why.  Hypothetically speaking, if you were to make the projectile speed very slow, and spawned a target that moved very fast, you could have the projectile chase the target around visually, potentially back to the caster.  But you couldn't do that based on hit or miss calculations: it would only work if the projectile was destined to hit the target.

NPCs rarely moved quickly enough for players to notice, but in PvP you could fire projectiles at targets capable of moving at or exceeding the visual speed of the projectiles.  They could even outrun them (but you could not outrun the attack's effects: effects hit you at a predetermined time if the power successfully rolls tohit (or is autohit).  The visual representation was independent of that.

[Codewalker]

NPCs rarely moved quickly enough for players to notice, but in PvP you could fire projectiles at targets capable of moving at or exceeding the visual speed of the projectiles.  They could even outrun them (but you could not outrun the attack's effects: effects hit you at a predetermined time if the power successfully rolls tohit (or is autohit).  The visual representation was independent of that.

Which is something I always considered to be a flaw in the FX system.

It would not have been difficult for the network command to play the FX to also include the hit delay, which is the absolute delay calculated on the server based on distance from target divided by projectile speed and determines when the damage happens and when the hit fx/animations are played.

The FX system could then make the projectile follow a set track based on a line from the source to the target, and the position on the line being a function of (current time / total time). If the target moves, the line simply stretches and the projectile seems to speed up so that it still hits the target at the right time.

I say it would not have been difficult because the fx system already supports doing that. A good example is the Peacebringer power Proton Scatter. It seems to fire a separate projectile at every target in the cone. However, the fx system doesn't actually support a power firing more than one projectile at once, so it fakes it. The power actually has a fixed 2 second hit time that does not vary with distance. Each of the pseudo-projectiles in the fx follow a track that takes exactly 2 seconds to get to the target, regardless of start and end positions or if the target is moving. So it would be a matter of applying that same code to projectiles that do have a variable hit time.