New efforts!

[RGladden]

... if that's the case, it makes me angry all over again.  We've been tip-toeing around for over a year, trying not to make NCSoft mad, because - oh no, it may sour the deal!

As far as I'm concerned, "stringing it along" with "no intent to close and finish the deal at this time" is as good as a straight-up "no".  We can stop tip-toeing.  We can stop trying to spare NCSoft's feelings.  There is no deal to sour.

Hope done sprung, eternal.

If there were no hope, or NCSoft had no intentions of selling the game, they would have already told Nate and company to buzz off.  The company has better things to do than play mind games over CoH with buyers representing rabid fans.  Their problems with Nexon may have thrown a monkey-wrench into the negotiations, but I see that as a temporary setback, at the worst.  There is no reason for us to toss in our chips and fold up. 

[Arcana]

I had a Street Justice/Nin stalker that rocked. But I was looking at Mids and thinking I may make him a SJ/Willpower stalker next time. I can get his def near 45%+ when stealthed and have ok Res and regen. Only thing I would miss from Nin would be the def debuff res (did it have a self heal too?), the placate powder move and the Caltrops. GREAT move for getting the hell outta dodge when your fight turns south. Click and slap on the floor below your feet and book it outta there.  8)

Ninjitsu not only had a heal, it had psi and toxic resistance as well - toxic resistance in the heal (Kuji-in Sha, which was a reconstruction clone), and psionic resistance in the status protection click (Kuji-in Rin, which was Practiced Brawler but better).  Relative to Super Reflexes, it lacked the passives and the defense and scaling resistances included in them, so their overall defense was lower.  A lot of people thought that was a really good trade.

[Arcana]

1. Performance - Paragon Studios was given leave to hire more people and improve the game, they did so but also started to make at least 2 other projects that may or may not have been approved prior to the work being done. Having all of the people hired and not seeing the huge flow of cash coming in - during a time they were trying to cut a deal with Nexon sealed the games fate.

My understanding is that it was NCSoft that was encouraging Paragon Studios to launch other titles, but never liked any of the ideas PS came up with.  The notion that PS went rogue and started making games NCSoft didn't approve of is sort of a cart before the horse idea: given the way I understood the studio to work, it wasn't possible for NCSoft to approve of a game before they worked on it, because the pitch mechanism at PS involved pitching a work in progress; either a fleshed out design document or a prototype.  I am personally aware of more than one project that was shot down, significantly before the shutdown (in at least one case, very long before shutdown).  These were projects that had people hired specifically to work on them, hires themselves approved by NCSoft.

I have a suspicion, although I've never confirmed this directly, that the people at the top of Paragon were becoming worried that NCSoft was never going to approve any of their ideas, because NCSoft had a very specific idea of what they wanted PS to make, but wouldn't come out and say what that was.  And that was beginning to become problematic for Paragon Studios because NCSoft kept approving mouths to feed but not approving anything to feed them with.  That's an unsustainable situation that PS started looking for creative ways to resolve, and I suspect NCSoft was not in the mood for creativity.

The single unanswerable question I have is what would have happened if NCSoft waiting a single month more to pull the trigger on the shutdown.  Because things were in motion that would have made that very interesting indeed.

[FloatingFatMan]

The single unanswerable question I have is what would have happened if NCSoft waiting a single month more to pull the trigger on the shutdown.  Because things were in motion that would have made that very interesting indeed.

Hey! You can't say something like that and not give details!  That's mean!

[duane]

Hey! You can't say something like that and not give details!  That's mean!

Is this just a reference to unreleased issue 24?  Sigh.

[Prism Almidu]

3. Current deal they are Tapping the Deal now. They are just stringing it along not to waste time but because the guy selling it is afraid Nexon will fire him if they win the struggle for the company control. If you do even a little research the reason Nexon gives for trying to takeover NCSoft is some of the older software. What I see while not on the inside is the tapping to keep a little life in the deal and the possibility still in place but no intent to close and finish the deal at this time, due mainly to Nexon and its efforts.

I suppose, as undesired as this is to the community, it does have a bit of a silver lining, in that the "upcoming project" Leandro mentioned will have that many more eyes on it when it does release... whatever that project ends up being lol. Looking forward to it.

[Arcana]

Hey! You can't say something like that and not give details!  That's mean!

Well, there was the Kickstarter, for one.

[Matt Bold]

Well, there was the Kickstarter, for one.

What kickstarter?

[brothermutant]

Anybody have an odd or freaky MM or Stalker build they wanna share? Been toying with Mids looking for a good soloing toon that can also help teams out. So far, my Street Justice/Nin is being converted to a Street Justice/Willpower most likely. Any melee gems I am missing?

Oh, and a good Arachnos soldier build (Huntsman, Crabbie, or Bane, don't care which) would be awesome too. Made several and never quite sure what I wanted with the soldier, other than supreme tank mage status but who doesn't want that, am I right?

[Rejolt]

OK, then this is a horrible idea:

Has anyone talked to someone at Nexon or at least begun the process of finding out their feelings on City of Heroes? This is a bad bad idea for many reasons but as anyone thought about doing it?

If older games are on their mind I'd have to think they would F2P, timer/energy/lockbox/autoplay/mobile thinking for the following IPs or tech (because thanks to mobile, you can use 10-15 year old programs and be highly profitable):

Dungeon Runners
Tabula Rasa
Auto Assault
City of Heroes
Xsteel


Does NCSoft still own the IP to all of these or did some original companies get them back? Is that all the stuff that NCsoft has shutdown? I've repeatedly said xsteel is tailor made for f2p/mobile even though none of the rest are.

And man why do I keep thinking For the Watch/Jon snow when I think of Nexsoft and CoX?

[Auroxis]

Anybody have an odd or freaky MM or Stalker build they wanna share? Been toying with Mids looking for a good soloing toon that can also help teams out. So far, my Street Justice/Nin is being converted to a Street Justice/Willpower most likely. Any melee gems I am missing?

Oh, and a good Arachnos soldier build (Huntsman, Crabbie, or Bane, don't care which) would be awesome too. Made several and never quite sure what I wanted with the soldier, other than supreme tank mage status but who doesn't want that, am I right?

My Elec/Nin Stalker build used for incarnate trials, pylon soloing and regular TF content.

Blueruckus' Crabstermind build he used to kill all the rikti pylons in time to drop the shields (archived thread).

[Arcana]

What kickstarter?

Its public knowledge Paragon was working on two other games at the time of the shutdown.  It is also public knowledge that Paragon had been investigating using Kickstarter to launch at least one of them.

Its not so public knowledge how far along the Kickstarter was.  Let me put it this way.  My sources told me at the time we were more likely to see the Kickstarter go live before I24 than the reverse.  Had the management buyout gone through, we probably would have been told the Kickstater was their first major independent decision.  On the day of the shutdown announcement, it was already basically ready to go.

[Rejolt]

Its public knowledge Paragon was working on two other games at the time of the shutdown.  It is also public knowledge that Paragon had been investigating using Kickstarter to launch at least one of them.

Its not so public knowledge how far along the Kickstarter was.  Let me put it this way.  My sources told me at the time we were more likely to see the Kickstarter go live before I24 than the reverse.  Had the management buyout gone through, we probably would have been told the Kickstater was their first major independent decision.  On the day of the shutdown announcement, it was already basically ready to go.

Was Paragon studios given  freedoms that NCSoft just couldn't stand that it had and the final straw eventually landed?

[Arcana]

Blueruckus' Crabstermind build he used to kill all the rikti pylons in time to drop the shields (archived thread).

I had forgotten someone pulled that off.  Even with the temp powers that's pretty impressive.  I'm now wondering if you were to use fillers to click bombs is the entire MSR soloable, given unrestricted use of temps, insps, and whatever else you can carry.

[Arcana]

Was Paragon studios given  freedoms that NCSoft just couldn't stand that it had and the final straw eventually landed?

It depends on your point of view.  With the benefit of hindsight and a clearer picture as to what was happening at the time, it now seems apparent to me that NCSoft put Paragon in a difficult position - NCSoft had basically told PS management they were planning to eventually shut the place down.  That forced PS to look for ways to save the studio.  In retrospect, some of those things may have angered NCSoft, but at that point what difference did it make?  If PS did nothing, they would still be gone.  Some of the things PS did may have closed doors to them, but those doors were only open in the first place because of the moves PS made to try to save itself.

I have never fully articulated my theory about what went down, partially because my theory incorporates a lot of information that is not public knowledge.  But I have a suspicion that the seeds of our destruction were planted long before, in fact on the day NCSoft bought CoH from Cryptic.  I have often tossed that decision around in my head, within the context of everything I know that happened before and after.  Why buy City of Heroes?  I believe that NCSoft once believed that Cryptic was the thing that held CoH back; that Cryptic did the minimum necessary to keep development of the game alive while they spent much of the revenue NCSoft gave them to fund other development - MUO, for example, which eventually came to nothing.

When Cryptic lost MUO and all that dev costs with it, they needed cash.  NCSoft saw an opportunity to fix their perceived problem by buying City of Heroes from Cryptic, at a time when Cryptic was basically compelled to sell.  They (NCSoft) could then put their own studio in charge of CoH development and devote 100% of those funds to making the game better, with the idea that making it better would make it a far better revenue source comparable to their other more successful properties.

When that didn't happen, I believe whoever it was who championed the purchase in the first place in NCSoft lost a lot of credibility, and CoH lost major support internally.  At that point, CoH became an annoyance, something that had failed NCSoft twice in a row.  From that point on, I believe CoH, and the entire Paragon Studio's days were numbered.  I think the reason why NCSoft shot down all those ideas at PS, including very specifically anything remotely resembling a sequel, is because with every idea PS pitched that wasn't "we're going to make the next Guild Wars" NCSoft saw PS as an increasingly useless appendage.  What NCSoft wanted to hear was "here's something we can make that will make you look good on your annual report" and PS was just looking for something that would keep people employed making games at a decent profit.

One of the things that haunts me is that the clues were there to be read, if someone was looking for them.  I saw them, but didn't put them together.  But even in hindsight, I wonder if anything could have been done to change it.  I think had Paragon switched to the Freedom model in I13 instead of I21, they might have saved themselves, maybe.  But other than that, I'm really not sure.

[Angel Phoenix77]

Hope done sprung, eternal.

If there were no hope, or NCSoft had no intentions of selling the game, they would have already told Nate and company to buzz off.  The company has better things to do than play mind games over CoH with buyers representing rabid fans.  Their problems with Nexon may have thrown a monkey-wrench into the negotiations, but I see that as a temporary setback, at the worst.  There is no reason for us to toss in our chips and fold up.

This exactly :), I would advise caution. As long as Ncsoft does not say a flat out no, there is still hope to one day fly above our home once again.

[Taceus Jiwede]

... if that's the case, it makes me angry all over again.  We've been tip-toeing around for over a year, trying not to make NCSoft mad, because - oh no, it may sour the deal!

As far as I'm concerned, "stringing it along" with "no intent to close and finish the deal at this time" is as good as a straight-up "no".  We can stop tip-toeing.  We can stop trying to spare NCSoft's feelings.  There is no deal to sour.

Yep.  That would be a terrible idea I agree.  Why are we trying to piss off NCsoft again?  Because we don't want our game back?  I am confused do we want our game back?  Because some guy at NCSoft want's to keep his job in case of a successful hostile take over and your response is "Screw NCSoft lets piss them off again to ensure we NEVER EVER EVER EVER get our game back?"
Some times I think you people would rather hate NCSoft then play COH.

It's been a year people have some damn patience.  Has no one here been in a situation that took years and years and years to resolve?  Well this is like a not so bad version of that.

Can a single person in here name me one benefit to being sour pusses to NCSoft again?  Even if we don't get COH back for 10 years there is no reason to piss of NCSoft ever.  What happens when you piss them off?  Do they get so mad they just release the game?  They know you wont "ever buy another game from them"  And how does this help anyone?  Maybe you will feel better, maybe you feel more prideful.  You know what you wont feel though? The feeling we could get from playing COH again.

[JanessaVR]

Its public knowledge Paragon was working on two other games at the time of the shutdown.  It is also public knowledge that Paragon had been investigating using Kickstarter to launch at least one of them.

Its not so public knowledge how far along the Kickstarter was.  Let me put it this way.  My sources told me at the time we were more likely to see the Kickstarter go live before I24 than the reverse.  Had the management buyout gone through, we probably would have been told the Kickstater was their first major independent decision.  On the day of the shutdown announcement, it was already basically ready to go.

[BLEEPING BLEEPING BLEEP!]  Argh!  Were we truly that close to a solution that could have saved the game by the time of the shutdown?!

[Thunder Glove]

Yep.  That would be a terrible idea I agree.  Why are we trying to piss off NCsoft again?  Because we don't want our game back?  I am confused do we want our game back?  Because some guy at NCSoft want's to keep his job in case of a successful hostile take over and your response is "Screw NCSoft lets piss them off again to ensure we NEVER EVER EVER EVER get our game back?"
Some times I think you people would rather hate NCSoft then play COH.

It's been a year people have some damn patience.  Has no one here been in a situation that took years and years and years to resolve?  Well this is like a not so bad version of that.

Can a single person in here name me one benefit to being sour pusses to NCSoft again?  Even if we don't get COH back for 10 years there is no reason to piss of NCSoft ever.  What happens when you piss them off?  Do they get so mad they just release the game?  They know you wont "ever buy another game from them"  And how does this help anyone?  Maybe you will feel better, maybe you feel more prideful.  You know what you wont feel though? The feeling we could get from playing COH again.

I didn't say "Go and directly piss them off", I said "Stop tip-toeing around them like they're delicate fainting flowers that may be disturbed if we don't constantly shower them with praise."

As for playing the game again - there are too many smart people who want the game back too much for the game to remain forever dead.  One or more of the spiritual successors will be completed and/or someone will get a private server working, and then NCSoft will no longer have any leverage.  I don't know about you, but I'm not waiting ten years for NCSoft to spit or get off the pot when there will be other options long before then, and I'm certainly not going to sit around and kiss their asses while I'm waiting.

[duane]

[BLEEPING BLEEPING BLEEP!]  Argh!  Were we truly that close to a solution that could have saved the game by the time of the shutdown?!

Vanessa... I don't have links but a number of articles in the last few years cite the whole thing being "one signature away" and then it fell apart.  Exactly how and the sticky details never really said.  Iron Wolf has said personalities clashed at the wrong place and wrong time and now these are the cards history dealt.  -Duane