New efforts!

[Fable]

I have a friend who also played CoX before shutdown. He thinks NCSoft is one big bully. They've taken away a toy from a child in a playground. Now they're waving it in front of him, telling him to do things to get his toy back. But they never do give it back, until someone bigger comes around and forces them. They'll just play "keep away" until they're bored then they'll throw the toy up a tree where no-one can get to it. And right now, NCSoft has lots of people running around trying to jump through their hoops. When does it end? I'm starting to agree with him.

I somehow doubt that a giant corporation is playing keep away.. It's just business as far they're concerned. If they feel like they can profit more off the sale of the IP than remaking and re releasing a game then they will sell. It's just that simple.

[darkgob]

Short of them actually vetting every single person that works on it after the deal is done, how would they even know?

Well I'm thinking it would only be like one or two "big names", like a red name that some important person at NCSoft never liked*.  At any rate, I was just playing devil's advocate, which I will admit is usually more obnoxious than not.

*I AM NOT DRAWING ANY IMPLICATIONS HERE.  I have no idea who was or wasn't liked either within Paragon Studios or between Paragon and NCSoft.

I have a friend who also played CoX before shutdown. He thinks NCSoft is one big bully. They've taken away a toy from a child in a playground. Now they're waving it in front of him, telling him to do things to get his toy back. But they never do give it back, until someone bigger comes around and forces them. They'll just play "keep away" until they're bored then they'll throw the toy up a tree where no-one can get to it. And right now, NCSoft has lots of people running around trying to jump through their hoops. When does it end? I'm starting to agree with him.

If NCSoft was really interested in the money, they would have sold it to Paragon Studios. The longer they wait, the less it's worth and thus the less likely they're going to sell it. Also, the longer they wait, the harder it will be to restore the game and/or find all the pieces. Like trying to put Humpty Dumpty back together.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read (today).  There's literally no reason for them to do this; even if they did decide that it was professional and appropriate to be this petty, the playerbase (who are also potential customers for any future games they may release) would not be the target of their maliciousness.  If they have no interest in selling it, all they have to say is no.  That's it.  Doesn't matter how much whining we all do, those two letters shut everything down, and they could have done that months ago if they had wanted.

Folks, I know it sucks that we haven't had any real concrete information for a while, but it's been said before, and I'll say it again -- THAT'S GOOD NEWS.  If they deal falls through, you will know.  If it's successfully completed, you will also know.  The fact that we know nothing means negotiations are still happening.

[archaist]

Seems to me that NCsoft is currently having some management issues and that may be a reason we haven't heard anything. There have been a few new articles (as in the past few hours) regarding NCsoft and Nexon. Apparently, Nexon wants more say in the company.

http://www.whowired.com/406582.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-28/nexon-seeking-management-role-sends-ncsoft-shares-surging

I'm hardly knowledgeable in the current situation of NCsoft and Nexon, nor do I know if this even has an affect on the deal at all. Just trying to keep you guys up to date on things that might be affecting the deal.

[Felderburg]

That just means they would have influence at the board level.  Everyone raise their hand who knows the board of directors for their company.

I work at a small family-owned business with about 10 employees... do I count?

[Aggelakis]

"A family-owned company with 10 employees" doesn't remotely compare to a company that spans multiple states - heck, NCsoft spans continents, with hundreds, a thousand, several thousand employees. Does your 10-employee business even HAVE a "board of directors"? If it does, I'm thinking you have too much upper management and could probably get away with 7 or 8 employees. ;)

[Angel Phoenix77]

Well I'm thinking it would only be like one or two "big names", like a red name that some important person at NCSoft never liked*.  At any rate, I was just playing devil's advocate, which I will admit is usually more obnoxious than not.

*I AM NOT DRAWING ANY IMPLICATIONS HERE.  I have no idea who was or wasn't liked either within Paragon Studios or between Paragon and NCSoft.

This is the most ridiculous thing I've read (today).  There's literally no reason for them to do this; even if they did decide that it was professional and appropriate to be this petty, the playerbase (who are also potential customers for any future games they may release) would not be the target of their maliciousness.  If they have no interest in selling it, all they have to say is no.  That's it.  Doesn't matter how much whining we all do, those two letters shut everything down, and they could have done that months ago if they had wanted.

Folks, I know it sucks that we haven't had any real concrete information for a while, but it's been said before, and I'll say it again -- THAT'S GOOD NEWS.  If they deal falls through, you will know.  If it's successfully completed, you will also know.  The fact that we know nothing means negotiations are still happening.

I agree with Dark's second comment, If Ncsoft wanted to toy with the buyers they would have never gotten this far in talks. I think they really want to sell because this would open the doors for other mmo's that were closed. They could make some money they would be happy. Let's say they sell city of for 5 mil. (I have no clue on the true amount.) Then they see how they can make everyone happy so another company wants to buy Tabula Rasa for a bit less, and so forth.

[JanessaVR]

"A family-owned company with 10 employees" doesn't remotely compare to a company that spans multiple states - heck, NCsoft spans continents, with hundreds, a thousand, several thousand employees. Does your 10-employee business even HAVE a "board of directors"? If it does, I'm thinking you have too much upper management and could probably get away with 7 or 8 employees. ;)

Heh.  Reminds me of a humorous story I heard about some soldiers in WW2.  Aha, found it!

"When we jumped into Sicily, the units became separated, and I couldn't find anyone.  Eventually, I stumbled across two colonels, a major, three captains, two lieutenants, and one rifleman, and we secured the bridge.  Never in the history of war have so few been led by so many."

General James Gavin

[FloatingFatMan]

Well I'm thinking it would only be like one or two "big names", like a red name that some important person at NCSoft never liked*.  At any rate, I was just playing devil's advocate, which I will admit is usually more obnoxious than not.

*I AM NOT DRAWING ANY IMPLICATIONS HERE.  I have no idea who was or wasn't liked either within Paragon Studios or between Paragon and NCSoft.

TBH, probably the most useful kind of person they could get their hands on is someone who worked in the datacenter itself, and took care of the servers and doing installs etc. They'd also likely be the easiest to employ rather than one of the devs.

[r00tb0ySlim]

That just means they would have influence at the board level.  Everyone raise their hand who knows the board of directors for their company.

Well, Seung Wu Choi was over for drinks last night, but I couldn't understand a word he said :o

[Surelle]

Seems to me that NCsoft is currently having some management issues and that may be a reason we haven't heard anything. There have been a few new articles (as in the past few hours) regarding NCsoft and Nexon. Apparently, Nexon wants more say in the company.

http://www.whowired.com/406582.htm
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-01-28/nexon-seeking-management-role-sends-ncsoft-shares-surging

I'm hardly knowledgeable in the current situation of NCsoft and Nexon, nor do I know if this even has an affect on the deal at all. Just trying to keep you guys up to date on things that might be affecting the deal.

Um, we should be considering this situation in regards to CoX ever coming back.  NCSoft went and promoted a new president (the wife of the current president) without asking Nexon, and Nexon is quite ticked off about it.

A hostile takeover by Nexon, which appears to be exactly what Nexon is now gearing up for here, could be really bad for us.  I mean, Nexon is the company doing Maple Story for Pete's sake, and they have publicly announced that they are not happy with what profit levels NCSoft has been able to generate themselves with their MMOs, not to mention that it was right after Nexon originally bought that 15% controlling share of NCSoft in June 2012 that the CoX closure announcement was made!

I have always felt that Nexon had a definite hand in the closure of CoX, but that's just my opinion.  In any case, this definitely bears consideration here.  With Nexon at the helm, I think we stand a worse chance of CoX ever coming back.  Heck, they weren't even happy with the income it generated with Paragon Studios making regular updates and engine upgrades!

[Abraxus]

I sincerely hope this development does not further complicate current negotiations, but it would not be unprecedented in the business world.  Hopefully, if they have any thoughts on the matter, it would be to make some cash on IP that is currently not generating any, and be done with it.  The only thing I could see standing in the way of that would be if they thought they could make more somewhere down the line, in another scenario altogether, and decide to hold out for that potential outcome.

In any case, we can speculate all we want, but the bottom line is that we are hamstrung by the information available (or lack thereof). The actual situation could be completely different from what we are imagining (for better, or worse), so in reality, we are no closer to predicting if this will have any effect on the current situation.  So, we will continue to wait for specifics for as long as it takes, because we really have no choice.  To do otherwise would mean giving up, and most of us have already gone too far to just let go that way, so we will see it through to the end.

I will continue to come here for as long as it takes to see the countdown clock start to Alpha, then Beta, then LIVE! 

[Felderburg]

"A family-owned company with 10 employees" doesn't remotely compare to a company that spans multiple states - heck, NCsoft spans continents, with hundreds, a thousand, several thousand employees. Does your 10-employee business even HAVE a "board of directors"? If it does, I'm thinking you have too much upper management and could probably get away with 7 or 8 employees. ;)

Oh I know, I was just poking fun at the assumption the poster made that everyone works for a company that even has a board of directors.

[BadWolf]

I have always felt that Nexon had a definite hand in the closure of CoX, but that's just my opinion.  In any case, this definitely bears consideration here.  With Nexon at the helm, I think we stand a worse chance of CoX ever coming back.  Heck, they weren't even happy with the income it generated with Paragon Studios making regular updates and engine upgrades!

The issue wasn't CoH--that was apparently profitable. Rather, it was that Paragon Studios wasn't profitable at the time of the sale. Like all game development studios, the balance sheet for Paragon Studios fluctuates between red and black depending on where in the development process their games are--if they've got a lot of stuff in the pipeline being coded, but not much being released, they're going to be running a loss at that time. (With cash reserves to allow for that, of course.) Once they release and sell the product, they jump back into the black, especially since most studios will fire people like crazy right after a product is released to make the P&L numbers look better. They'll then rehire many of them for the next project, because it's a terrible awful industry with no job security, but that's a whole other topic.

The point is, Paragon Studios was working on a bunch of stuff when the deal went through, and they had a lot of people on their payroll who were doing stuff and being paid for it and not yet generating profit. NCSoft had to more or less justify everything they were doing at that exact moment as part of the due diligence for the sale, and Paragon Studios made their numbers look bad. So it went bye-bye. Had nothing to do with CoH in particular, and everything to do with where it was in the company's org chart.

[Codewalker]

The point is, Paragon Studios was working on a bunch of stuff when the deal went through, and they had a lot of people on their payroll who were doing stuff and being paid for it and not yet generating profit. NCSoft had to more or less justify everything they were doing at that exact moment as part of the due diligence for the sale, and Paragon Studios made their numbers look bad. So it went bye-bye. Had nothing to do with CoH in particular, and everything to do with where it was in the company's org chart.

I don't buy that at all. If Paragon Studios looked bad to investors at the time of Nexon buying the shares, Carbine's balance sheet looked a hundred times worse. ArenaNet was probably in the red as well, as GW2 was in the late stages of development but not yet released.

[MWRuger]

I've never heard of such a ridiculous clause, and doubt such a thing would even be legal.

Not every company does this but some do for legal reasons. For example, home health companies require regular personal file audits because they have to show that every nurse they dispatch is fully certified to perform require procedures. Also they have to sign confidentiality statements for HIPAA, these also need to be current as the regulations and procedures change and you need to sign a form for the current version of the law.

Even a regular company should do an audit of a personnel files to make sure that they are compliant. Do you have a valid I-9, W-4? If you offer insurance and an employee declines coverage, do you a copy of him declining coverage. Do they need special licensing for particular equipment. Does your company require mandatory drug testing before hire or periodically?

Finally, when you hire someone to work for you you want them to be qualified to do the job. Vetting can be somethng as simple as checking references to indepth investigation depending on the position and the risk involved. You give them permission to do this when you sign the statement that you affirm everything you said on the application is true. It's there, just more people don't read it.

This is done to protect the company and to make sure that employees aren't asked to do something they are not certified or licensed for. You make think it is over the top, but it is a necessary part of business.

[rebel 1812]

Oh I know, I was just poking fun at the assumption the poster made that everyone works for a company that even has a board of directors.

No.  Thats kind of the point.  For small companies you know everyone in it and the power they have.  For companies large enough to have a board, they are usually unknown because they only affect upper management.

[darkgob]

HIPAA

Thank you for spelling this correctly.

[Noyjitat]

someday I know but until then...

https://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y70/Noyjitat/this%20is%20such%20a%20drag.png

[Teikiatsu]

I like this theory:

http://mmogrinder.net/2012/09/02/r-i-p-city-of-heroes/

NCSoft lost money on the Aion F2P conversion, and cut CoH in hopes it would get players to move to Aion or Guild Wars 2.

This... seems the most likely, as stupid as it sounds. It doesn't make sense from any standpoint a company like PepsiCo saying "Oh, we're not making Mountain Dew anymore. Here's a coupon for some Naked Juice Coconut Water!" and expecting people to just grin and bear it. Yeah, you have other drinks, but not the one I came here for!  However, you don't know NCSoft like I know NCSoft. I said this in an episode of MMO Underground when G referred to NCSoft as "a pretty good company" referring to the quality of the games they host, when I countered with "They only reason more people don't hate NCSoft is because Nexon still exists." They are ON PAR with the kind of shady crap Nexon has been pulling over the years... occasionally worse.

It would not shock me in the least to believe this rumor is true. NCSoft is first and foremost a Korean company, and Aion is a very Korean game, developed exclusively by in-house developers. CoH is something they picked up from an aspiring american developer that later left them and gave them exclusivity. In their mind, it's a black sheep. It doesn't flow with their aesthetic.  If Aion was the title that failed them, Aion is still their baby, and CoH is an old, acquired title. They're going to cut ties with the game they didn't create, not something they built from the ground up. It's despicable, it's nepotism, and it doesn't surprise me in the least. It's not going to work, though.

[LaughingAlex]

I like this theory:

http://mmogrinder.net/2012/09/02/r-i-p-city-of-heroes/

It's an old theory for sure, one that I think is silly, but then if it was true on NCSofts behalf they'd be very naive to think that way.  Thing is Aion and Guild wars 2 were not the same thing, not even the same thing.  It would have been very short sighted, so I wouldn't think that'd be the idea behind it.

As for Nexon being unhappy with NCSoft, I have to ask the question, how are THEY doing with sales themselves in america?  If they are also prone to just making generic mmorpgs then they'd do no better over here.