New efforts!

[Power Gamer]

I think I'll start a company that sells alcohol.

The bottle will be in the shape of a column. Guess the volume of said column, come on, guess.  :roll:

[KennonGL]

I think I'll start a company that sells alcohol.

The bottle will be in the shape of a column. Guess the volume of said column, come on, guess.  :roll:

6 ?

[BadWolf]

Ok, I'm sold.  That's so insane I have to see that storyline.  Do us a favor and make that up in AE.  :)

Don't need to. (And, well, can't, but that's beside the point.) There was an Ouroboros storyline about it:

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Mender_Lazarus_Task_Force

Specifically, read Requiem's dialogue in the final mission cutscene. He's clearly telling his loyalists to give up, and allow themselves to be subsumed into the Council so that they can later be reborn from within its ranks. They're acting as a fifth column within the Council.

This is proof that I cannot come up with an idea crazier than the Devs, I think. (Although I was fond of my AE arc where Television sent you to recapture Doctor Forrester, who'd escaped and set up his own lab where he was making a man in space watch movies...)

[Felderburg]

DevE: You think that's meta, I have an idea for a story where the 5th Column let themselves be defeated in the internal coup by the fifth column so that they can then rise again as the 5th Column, a fifth column within the fifth column that overthrew the 5th Column!

DevB: ...are you feeling okay?

HAHAHA!

Ok, I'm sold.  That's so insane I have to see that storyline.  Do us a favor and make that up in AE.  :)

That is literally the storyline from the game... which has been pointed out. http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Requiem#Quotes is the spot for the dialog, and some other interesting info on Requiem.

[JanessaVR]

Don't tell me, let me guess.  The story arc involves the hero-side players infiltrating the Fifth Column inside the Council faction bringing down the Fifth Column, and the red-side players bringing down the hero-side players infiltrating the Fifth Column inside the Council faction bringing down the Fifth Column.

And now I can't help but be reminded of Hellsing Abridged (by Team Four Star), where the Nazi vampires are congratulating themselves on their oh-so-terribly-clever evil plans:

Herr Doktor:  I'm so sorry, Major, for the failure of the Dandy Man.
The Major:  Oh, give it a rest, Herr Doktor.  He was a Brazilian dog who died feeding a much bigger beast a valuable piece of information.
Herr Doktor:  But, Major, now that they know of our plans...
The Major:  Ah, Herr Doktor, but that is the plan.  Now that they know our plan, they will plan around our plans.  And so we shall in turn plan around the plan that they are planning around our plan!
(beat)
Herr Doktor:  Your brilliance knows no bounds!
The Major:  And regardless, we have one advantage that they sorely lack...ZEPPELINS!

[TheBeatnik]

IIRC Jim Butcher was told he couldn't run a character named Harry Dresden due to copywriter issues

Butcher must have found a way, because a couple of acquaintances of mine on Virtue wound up teamed with him one night, and he was in full Harry regalia, with the name, the look, and the powers. They said he mentioned that he'd been given some grief about it.

[JanessaVR]

Butcher must have found a way, because a couple of acquaintances of mine on Virtue wound up teamed with him one night, and he was in full Harry regalia, with the name, the look, and the powers. They said he mentioned that he'd been given some grief about it.

Do you know what he chose for his archetype and powersets?

[Medispider Reznov]

Herr Doktor:  I'm so sorry, Major, for the failure of the Dandy Man.
The Major:  Oh, give it a rest, Herr Doktor.  He was a Brazilian dog who died feeding a much bigger beast a valuable piece of information.
Herr Doktor:  But, Major, now that they know of our plans...
The Major:  Ah, Herr Doktor, but that is the plan.  Now that they know our plan, they will plan around our plans.  And so we shall in turn plan around the plan that they are planning around our plan!
(beat)
Herr Doktor:  Your brilliance knows no bounds!
The Major:  And regardless, we have one advantage that they sorely lack...ZEPPELINS!

Edit: Please watch the language... --TV

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

Do you know what he chose for his archetype and powersets?

Ah, he was a <something>/Force Field Controller as i recall, but it's been a long time. Not that i teamed with him personally, but i had friends who had and it was extensively discussed on the old forums. i mostly remember thinking that his powerset choices weren't quite what i expected. Still, i recall the discussion that he'd had to explain to the GMs several times that he owned the rights to the character and that he wasn't using someone else's copyright.

[JanessaVR]

Ah, he was a <something>/Force Field Controller as i recall, but it's been a long time. Not that i teamed with him personally, but i had friends who had and it was extensively discussed on the old forums. i mostly remember thinking that his powerset choices weren't quite what i expected. Still, i recall the discussion that he'd had to explain to the GMs several times that he owned the rights to the character and that he wasn't using someone else's copyright.

If I had to guess, then I'd imagine it was a Fire/FF Controller.

[Des_Tructive]

You can't sell or market a game in Germany that contains any kind of Nazi stuff. They removed the 5th Column so they could sell the game in Germany.

It is illegal in Germany to buy or sell anything that has Nazis, Nazi symbols, etc. It wasn't pandering, it was a legal issue. Cryptic solved it in pretty much the same way Wolfenstein did: "Lets...make them...NOTzis!".
A little fore sight I suppose could have been had on what regions they wanted to sell the game, but that's not exactly a damning failing. -shrugs-

German gamer with a wife that worked in the comics industry piping in here.

The use of Nazi symbolism isn't the issue. German laws don't forbid that. What is outlawed is any sort of glorification of Nazis/fascism/etc. Wolfenstein was pulled primarily for the (then) excessive violence, although the Nazi dressing everywhere surely helped.

Also, since they primarily react on groups/agencies filing requests for indexing something for being harmful to the youth, any media that offend - let's say a conservative fart - can be put up to examination if enough people write in about it. And while being indexed can, of course, lead to games being rated as suitable for 16+ or 18+ (harming sales), there's very few examples of "casual" media being outright banned. Most of the things legally banned over here would get banned in many other countries.

Most companies take the easy way out and just avoid using "questionable" content. You could say they go to knee-jerk extremes to avoid a knee-jerk reaction.

tl;dr version:
German laws let you kill all the nazis you want in games, but if the game starts spouting nazi propaganda, it's gonna get banned. Blame the devs for being too careful.

€dit: Link to the wikipedia entry for anyone who wants to delve into the details of how the ban process works.

[Noyjitat]

I mean honestly, the 5th column doesn't even have a iconography going for it, they don't wear similar uniforms or bare the Swastika or Prussian skullcaps.

Well they were pretty close
Requiem
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//c/c1/Requiem.jpg

Reichsman
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//9/99/Reichsman.jpg

Luftwaffe Generalmajor Paul Conrath looks similar to reichsman
https://images.weserv.nl/?url=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F9%2F90%2FBundesarchiv_Bild_146-1979-089-22%252C_Hermann_G%25C3%25B6ring_und_Paul_Conrath.jpg%2F371px-Bundesarchiv_Bild_146-1979-089-22%252C_Hermann_G%25C3%25B6ring_und_Paul_Conrath.jpg

Nazi spock lol why not
https://images.weserv.nl/?url=trekkerscrapbook.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F10%2Fpof-col.jpg

https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//a/a9/Nacht_Force.jpg

5th column emblem
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//2/2f/5th_Column_Logo.jpg


German Reich Emblem
https://images.weserv.nl/?url=upload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2Fthumb%2F0%2F06%2FReichsadler_der_Deutsches_Reich_%25281933%25E2%2580%25931945%2529.svg%2F220px-Reichsadler_der_Deutsches_Reich_%25281933%25E2%2580%25931945%2529.svg.png

Personally I liked both the Council and the 5th Column although I never knew this was the reason why they were removed. Or if that's even true or not (did they really expect that many German players in City of Heroes?) I myself always assumed the Council was supposed to be the Soviet Union and they were doing some sort of story with the Soviets taking over after Germany surrendered.

[Baja]

Reichsman looks exactly like Bison from Street Fighter, and I'm very jealous of this.

[redfalcon66]

Lol isn't Nimoy Jewish? That had to feel odd for him

[Zombie Hustler]

I've always felt that Rashoman should be required viewing for MBAs and anyone who wants to understand how real organizations work.

I think it should be required viewing for anyone, anywhere. Kurosawa, you know?

[Noyjitat]

Reichsman looks exactly like Bison from Street Fighter, and I'm very jealous of this.

Yes and while I don't know much about the lore in street fighter ( I played it on sega when I Was growing up) I'm fairly certain that he is a reference to a nazi.

[Napalmrain]

How could anyone not see 5th column were modeled after nazi's with Reichsman being their leader?

[Reiraku]

Yes and while I don't know much about the lore in street fighter ( I played it on sega when I Was growing up) I'm fairly certain that he is a reference to a nazi.

Actually, he was based off of Washizaki from Riki-oh and Yasunori Kato from Tokyo The Last Megapolis.

https://38.media.tumblr.com/90b1af1d7856d7511256d4d2631209fe/tumblr_mkc2hwacyz1r21i5xo1_500.jpg

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=2.bp.blogspot.com%2F_wZoHbsGuL6A%2FTC11D6D_OKI%2FAAAAAAAAB1k%2Fj1LxsNZIYjE%2Fs1600%2Fwashizaki.png

[Nyx Nought Nothing]

If I had to guess, then I'd imagine it was a Fire/FF Controller.

Pretty sure it wasn't Fire. Sort of thinking it was Gravity. Darnitol, i wish the old forums were still around, although i suppose i could try looking through some of the archived versions.

[JanessaVR]

Pretty sure it wasn't Fire. Sort of thinking it was Gravity. Darnitol, i wish the old forums were still around, although i suppose i could try looking through some of the archived versions.

Huh.  Coming from JB himself, that sounds rather odd.  Harry's always tossing around fire.  The FF secondary for his shield spells, that makes sense.  But no fire, at all?  When played by the author himself, that just seems...off.  I'd be rather tempted to build Harry as either a Fire/FF Controller or a FF/Fire Blast Defender (to incorporate both of those), but an Illusion/FF Controller would be decent choice for Molly.