New efforts!

[Remaugen]

I left a small handful of toons in Praetoria when they hit level 20 to keep them purely Praetorian. I think one of them finally got to 30something before shutdown.


We're almost there!   ;D

[Arcana]

I confess to no expertise in the needs of hosting an MMO.  However, I -do- possess rather a lot of expertise in the needs of hosting business software and its requisite dedicated SQL servers, etc.  In fact, we just completed the process of moving our main client from in-house servers in Belgium to 3rd party hosting in London.

That was rather a big project that took the best part of a year to complete, including negotiations and various business agreements needed to get everything into place with the needed contract service levels etc.

I wouldn't expect an MMO to take that long as it won't have all the complicated legal stuff we had to deal with, but to presume it could get done within 30 days is just clutching at straws.

I really wish it was possible to make these bets worth my time.  Then I wouldn't have to work as hard at my job, which at the moment is designing and deploying consolidated hosting systems.

[Felderburg]

Regarding EATs: I think I should have clarified that I would support a Carnival EAT with the storyline caveat of breaking free from the mask's control somehow (à la Liberated Borg in STO). I still like my idea of a restricted character creator, using mostly existing ATs / powers, with new costume sets, and then being given a story for just those characters created that way. For some EATs, that's all you need, rather than a whole new suite of powers.

Edit: Forgot to add: the Lore AMA person who asked about Strongmen being implied to be dead in a story arc appears to be wrong. I may have missed an arc or some bit of dialog, but the main arcs suggest that while there may be a sort of soul domination hierarchy, and even that a few of the higher level Carnies have a certain autonomy while being granted powers by the main mask, rather than being totally dominated, there is nothing that says Strongmen are dead.

I suspect the asker got confused when it was revealed that the Carnies "ate" parts of souls to recharge their power, and sometimes took an entire soul, causing the death of a person. But that person was straight up dead afterwards (basically).

I got sick of the Praetorian Raid content. It was basically 'Oh, end-game, uh... people like raids, right? All the other games have raids?'

The reason I loved CoH was because it WASN'T like other games. And no other game has satisfied me like CoH did. The Trials/Raids were annoying and grindy if you wanted Incarnate progression, which was what, until that point, CoH had AVOIDED. The way everything was gated behind trials/raids, even some bloody *RP content*, emotes and costume parts and the like, really, really grated with me. As folks from Union possibly remember, heh.

YES! This was a big part of the reason I drifted from the game. If you look at Positron's column at mmorpg.com (http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/columns/show/45_Matt-Miller) you can see that he was anti alt (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7676/Altism.html) and very concerned with the "end game" (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7274/Endgame.html). There's other articles he wrote that support my conclusion that he was the driving force behind what drove me away from the game.

Also, I wonder how much they rely on "metrics" rather than feedback. I mean, sure, lots of people are playing trials, according to your data. But do they enjoy doing that? I don't know - I do know that the only reason the trials articles have any story content on the wiki is because Blondeshell dug up some files a few months ago with dialog in them. That's years of nothing but strategy and "here's how to do this trial super fast" on the wiki - a wiki that is supposed to be a source of storyline documentation as well as anything else. What I'm getting at there is that it was clear that people didn't read about or even know what was "happening" in the trials, because they just wanted to rush through them for rewards.

[Remaugen]

. . . <Snip!>
Also, I wonder how much they rely on "metrics" rather than feedback. I mean, sure, lots of people are playing trials, according to your data. But do they enjoy doing that? I don't know - I do know that the only reason the trials articles have any story content on the wiki is because Blondeshell dug up some files a few months ago with dialog in them. That's years of nothing but strategy and "here's how to do this trial super fast" on the wiki - a wiki that is supposed to be a source of storyline documentation as well as anything else. What I'm getting at there is that it was clear that people didn't read about or even know what was "happening" in the trials, because they just wanted to rush through them for rewards.

This is certainly a lot to think about, and I agree for the most part. I often rushed through content, ignoring the story, just rushing to the next fight/next reward/next mission. Often I ran a trial several times before I bothered to pay any attention to the story and in truth, there is a LOT of game backstory that I never did learn. Even now, much or most of what I do know about the story comes from the Wiki, (Bless you Blondeshell and anyone else who contributed.) and not from knowledge gained in game.

And you know what? That's OK, some people play for action, some play for reward and others play for love of genre or any combination of those, and it's all good. Communities are diverse and there is room for all of us here.

But you could be right, perhaps we need to look at the mechanics of game improvements/changes. Still though, all in all, I think they did a pretty good job during the life of the game and my complaints are fairly minor. So on the issue of "Metrics vs Feedback", I really think that those decision making processes need to be fluid and not locked down in formula. If the Devs think something need fixed, they really shouldn't have to ask for feedback, but if a lot of players are complaining about the same thing, then it should be obvious to the Devs that something needs to be fixed.


We're almost there!    ;D

[Zombie Hustler]

That's one thing that bugged me about the iTrials- there was a ton of storyline content in there that I often didn't get much of an opportunity to actually enjoy and appreciate, because it seemed like everyone else was only rushing through them to get the rewards. It was difficult enough with the early ones and their story cutscenes (sometimes I missed them due to lag issues), but when they started adding the live dialogue bubbles it was nearly impossible to enjoy and read along. I think the best one they managed to pull off was the Mother Mayhem trial, wherein it was fairly possible to get most of the dialogue and story without feeling as if you were missing out on the actual combat, but even that was kind of iffy.

I'd have loved to have either had the option of the GW style "click here if you want to move past this cut scene," or if you could go back and review the cinematics of an iTrial after completion ("unlocking" it, as it were).

And those were some interesting articles Felderberg posted about Posi's retrospective on the game. I have to agree, that his point of view is pretty much at odds with what I loved about the game- no-alts and having endgame content- and I, too, have to wonder how much actual metrics were involved in those decisions and how much was simply MMO-Blinders ("Everyone else does it that way, so we have to as well").

I will say that I did appreciate his attempt to make Rogue and Vigilante storylines in i24 (even if they weren't terribly well written).

[Phaerius]

Thing about limited praetorian content is that first ward and night ward were added to address this. Under the early plans they were going to be putting out the zones in praetoria to get GR characters all the way up to 50. With first ward and night ward they got to 35, but apparently they had to veer away from that plan.

[Zombie Hustler]

Its understandable from a resource point of view- as others note, there was still CoH and CoV content that needed to be added to and/or updated, and continuing with Praetorian content split those resources three ways.

It is too bad, though; I'd have loved the Resistance/Loyalist storyline to have continued through First and Night Ward. First Ward alone lent itself very well to not only continuing that storyline, but also just the sheer size and diversity of opponents meant that it could very well have been zone enough to cover a much larger level range than most of the CoH or CoV zones themselves do.

Heck, I was constantly advocating for inclusion of a Black Market (Praetorian) and Abandoned Lab (inventions) in the zone. Those two "minor" additions would have made First Ward a fully functional home base- especially with the soon to be released Apocalypse costume pieces.  ;D

[duane]

Thing about limited praetorian content is that first ward and night ward were added to address this. Under the early plans they were going to be putting out the zones in praetoria to get GR characters all the way up to 50. With first ward and night ward they got to 35, but apparently they had to veer away from that plan.

Praetoria fatigue.  A new story line was greatly welcomed per 2014 Loregasm

[Optimus Dex]

YES! This was a big part of the reason I drifted from the game. If you look at Positron's column at mmorpg.com (http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/columns/show/45_Matt-Miller) you can see that he was anti alt (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7676/Altism.html) and very concerned with the "end game" (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7274/Endgame.html). There's other articles he wrote that support my conclusion that he was the driving force behind what drove me away from the game.

Also, I wonder how much they rely on "metrics" rather than feedback. I mean, sure, lots of people are playing trials, according to your data. But do they enjoy doing that? I don't know - I do know that the only reason the trials articles have any story content on the wiki is because Blondeshell dug up some files a few months ago with dialog in them. That's years of nothing but strategy and "here's how to do this trial super fast" on the wiki - a wiki that is supposed to be a source of storyline documentation as well as anything else. What I'm getting at there is that it was clear that people didn't read about or even know what was "happening" in the trials, because they just wanted to rush through them for rewards.


« Last Edit: Today at 10:10:38 pm by Felderburg »

I am and was an altaholic- it took me 4 years to have a 50. I only did the trials at first for fun but it became like a chore and a keeping up with new stuff routine. As soon as the sunset announcement came I went back to playing my old way. No trials - starting new alts. . I found myself having more fun.
I remember reading in disbelief Positrons seemingly anti alt stance..

[HEATSTROKE]

 I loved the Itrials.. the thing is that they were totally optional.. you didnt have to do one ever..

[Zombie Hustler]

I loved the Itrials.. the thing is that they were totally optional.. you didnt have to do one ever..

This is true, but considering how much of the lore of the game's progress to that point (notably, the Praetorian war) was tied up in them, if you didn't run them, your were kind of cut out of a huge chunk of the game's story.

[Pherdnut]

YES! This was a big part of the reason I drifted from the game. If you look at Positron's column at mmorpg.com (http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/columns/show/45_Matt-Miller) you can see that he was anti alt (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7676/Altism.html) and very concerned with the "end game" (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7274/Endgame.html). There's other articles he wrote that support my conclusion that he was the driving force behind what drove me away from the game.

Also, I wonder how much they rely on "metrics" rather than feedback. I mean, sure, lots of people are playing trials, according to your data. But do they enjoy doing that? I don't know - I do know that the only reason the trials articles have any story content on the wiki is because Blondeshell dug up some files a few months ago with dialog in them. That's years of nothing but strategy and "here's how to do this trial super fast" on the wiki - a wiki that is supposed to be a source of storyline documentation as well as anything else. What I'm getting at there is that it was clear that people didn't read about or even know what was "happening" in the trials, because they just wanted to rush through them for rewards.


« Last Edit: Today at 10:10:38 pm by Felderburg »

I am and was an altaholic- it took me 4 years to have a 50. I only did the trials at first for fun but it became like a chore and a keeping up with new stuff routine. As soon as the sunset announcement came I went back to playing my old way. No trials - starting new alts. . I found myself having more fun.
I remember reading in disbelief Positrons seemingly anti alt stance..

I think he's speaking of "altoholism" with a bit more tongue-in-cheek than you realize. He's not seriously dismissing the costume creator or the multitude of options you had to try out as if they were mistakes. COH had a crap-ton of mid-to-lower-level character content. More than I've seen in any other game. Splitting the world with Praetoria might have been a mistake in their eyes but I sure don't think so. The game never ran out. I kept coming back and then there'd be new costume sets to earn/buy.

[HEATSTROKE]

This is true, but considering how much of the lore of the game's progress to that point (notably, the Praetorian war) was tied up in them, if you didn't run them, your were kind of cut out of a huge chunk of the game's story.

I have to admit.. I didnt pay a huge amount of attention to the games lore..I was aware of it.. and I write my character backgrounds with Paragon City in mind.. but other than that.. I wasnt that deep into it..

I played to have fun with my SG mates... and my biggest joy was building out my characters.. so to me the I-trials were a means to an end..

[hejtmane]

Regarding EATs: I think I should have clarified that I would support a Carnival EAT with the storyline caveat of breaking free from the mask's control somehow (à la Liberated Borg in STO). I still like my idea of a restricted character creator, using mostly existing ATs / powers, with new costume sets, and then being given a story for just those characters created that way. For some EATs, that's all you need, rather than a whole new suite of powers.

Edit: Forgot to add: the Lore AMA person who asked about Strongmen being implied to be dead in a story arc appears to be wrong. I may have missed an arc or some bit of dialog, but the main arcs suggest that while there may be a sort of soul domination hierarchy, and even that a few of the higher level Carnies have a certain autonomy while being granted powers by the main mask, rather than being totally dominated, there is nothing that says Strongmen are dead.

I suspect the asker got confused when it was revealed that the Carnies "ate" parts of souls to recharge their power, and sometimes took an entire soul, causing the death of a person. But that person was straight up dead afterwards (basically).

YES! This was a big part of the reason I drifted from the game. If you look at Positron's column at mmorpg.com (http://www.mmorpg.com/features.cfm/view/columns/show/45_Matt-Miller) you can see that he was anti alt (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7676/Altism.html) and very concerned with the "end game" (http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/7274/Endgame.html). There's other articles he wrote that support my conclusion that he was the driving force behind what drove me away from the game.

Also, I wonder how much they rely on "metrics" rather than feedback. I mean, sure, lots of people are playing trials, according to your data. But do they enjoy doing that? I don't know - I do know that the only reason the trials articles have any story content on the wiki is because Blondeshell dug up some files a few months ago with dialog in them. That's years of nothing but strategy and "here's how to do this trial super fast" on the wiki - a wiki that is supposed to be a source of storyline documentation as well as anything else. What I'm getting at there is that it was clear that people didn't read about or even know what was "happening" in the trials, because they just wanted to rush through them for rewards.

Why I went to rift for a year if I was going to raid I was going to raid a game but after a year I was not able to raid anymore due to to many other things going on in real life I went back to coh because at least the raids could be thrown together in 15 minutes and completed and you did not have raid progression.

[ivanhedgehog]

I miss the stf's and itfs that formed in just a couple of moments

[Cailyn Alaynn]

When it comes to metrics...

If you give players a choice of two doors. One door is blue and has a carrot behind it, the other is pink and has cake behind it.
You'll find the pink door being opened the most. Not because the players LOVE the color pink, but because they love cake.

[Teikiatsu]

UPDATE 06/12/2014:


Timeline of significant events:
.

The bold comments are direct communications from the team. I have edited them slightly to remove names and such.

Timeline:
March 6 - I get the information and start working on a way to possibly open source CoH.
March 12 - got letter back from Chris Chung - it showed that is WAS possible to buy the game.
March 13 - the team makes its first contact with me and says this: You are an evil, evil man. I'd given up hope after learning of the tax issue. Now here I am now grinning from ear to ear. Likely going to lead to heartbreak, but damned the torpedos. Full speed ahead.
March 21 - Honestly, we had given up hope. Now, you've given us hope, so we're discussing it.
March 28 - We have been reaching out and putting the proposal together. The concern has been the "Golden Handcuffs" option, being shackled to NCSoft again and having the sword of damocles once again hanging over our heads but this time knowing it is there.
April 5 - Made some headway. Now we know who we need to talk to, and a general idea of price. It is very doable.
April 16 - At the end we'll announce it one way or the other. For now it is just this silly business dance in order to reach [Redacted contact]
April 18 - Second studio expresses interest in the game
April 21 - investor expresses interest and is passed to the team
May 1 - third studio expresses interest in the game.
May 21 - I ask how the talks are going and if they are making the team jump through hoops:Stupid. Stupid amounts of hoops, as far as I know.
June 19 - Slow but not dead. Not a big deal, we were focusing on August anyhow.
June 24 - former paragon Dev contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 3 - Yesterday, we were directed to the man whose signature is needed.
July 3 - after MY reading WAAAY too much into the first message - Er... we're not days away from anything. We're just now in direct contact, which means we're past another hurdle. We still have at least two months of negotiations left ahead of us, at best. This is where the monsters truly do lie.
July 7 - another investor/studio contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 11- the fifth studio contacts me and is forwarded to the team
July 24 - Direct quote: "we're working very hard on something to show someone. things will be quiet for a bit."
August 13 - Direct quote: Things are moving along. We should have things worth showing fairly soon, made a great leap forward yesterday.

It occurs to me the first page hasn't been updated with the September 1 news.

<.<

>.>

just sayin'

[Angel Phoenix77]

It occurs to me the first page hasn't been updated with the September 1 news.

<.<

>.>

just sayin'

Could be no news to report on.

[Power Gamer]

And no gnus is good gnus.
GARY GNU

[FloatingFatMan]

I really wish it was possible to make these bets worth my time.  Then I wouldn't have to work as hard at my job, which at the moment is designing and deploying consolidated hosting systems.

I'd be quite happy to be proven wrong, you know. I don't think I am, but we shall see.