New efforts!

[AlienOne]

Seeing MIDS builds... *sniff*

In my experience, MIDS was pretty much the BEST offline character designer I have found in any MMO...

That's the absolute hands-down truth right there.

[Codewalker]

Understanding that's a guess, CW... I find the bolded part to be quite... amusing. :)

And I also am having a struggle with that, and the bit right after, regarding financial backing.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I see a bit of logic regarding it, but really... They're selling a game they shuttered.  Did they care what Cryptic thought about that?  I'm guessing they did not even consider it whatsoever.  Further, whatever NCSoft did with it past when they bought it from Cryptic, did you hear Cryptic crying foul?  No.  At least, I don't think so...

Several things. First, despite popular opinion, all business are not driven purely to maximize profit. The people in charge, especially if they founded the company or have been with it for a long time, can have personal motivations and attachments that influence their decisions. They are not always in complete agreement with each other, either.

Second, there are cultural differences. Those are somewhat difficult to bring up around here without being accused of racism or other silly things, but they exist and should not be ignored when considering a business deal. Here's a few key ones that seem to apply. I'm extrapolating a little from other cultures in the region, so there may be local differences in South Korea -- if someone has more experience with Korean business culture please correct me if they're not accurate:

• Once your name is attached to something, especially a creative work that you had a hand in producing (even indirectly), it is forever associated with you. People will remember that NCSoft once produced City of Heroes, so if they sell it and it gets neglected or turned into something people hate, it will reflect very badly on them. That happens whether or not the logo is on it, but since they know it will happen anyway, they want the logo to stay, much as Cryptic's does.
  
  
• It's considered better to exit gracefully on your own terms than to let something die a slow, lingering death. While the shutdown wasn't handled in a way most of us would consider 'graceful', to them it's still better than the alternative.
  
  
• When I talk about their image, I don't mean with us. Yes, most ex-COH players have a very low image of the company. We are not who they're concerned about. We are a small and rabid fanbase and there is very little they could do that would make a difference there. Even their image among MMO players is secondary, as many of them (especially in Korea) are young and not necessarily the same social standing. What they are concerned about is their reputation among their peers -- other game companies, publishers, businesses, and appearance in the media.
  
  That reputation did take a minor hit among western studios. I say minor because a couple of developers made some remarks at conferences, but people are still doing business with them, the reviewers are still covering their games and only occasionally making comments, but ones that are easily glossed over and not the focus of the review. That's a small segment of their market in any event.
  
  Selling a game that they closed, effectively admitting that they were wrong, could make them look bad to their business partners at home, which is a much bigger deal. The fact that they're even considering it at all is a minor miracle. The only way such a deal can happen is if it's handled carefully in a way that allows them to save face on the sale.

This probably won't make sense to the majority of westerners who were raised with a different value system and have different social rules and expectations. But it's also very, very important to anyone who wants to try to complete a deal such as this one. You can't expect to walk in with a wad of cash and get whatever you want just because you have money. Things like respect are valued far higher. When someone else holds all the cards, sometimes you have to play by their rules to have a chance at getting what you want.

[Serpine]

In my experience, MIDS was pretty much the BEST offline character designer I have found in any MMO...

I've tried to find builders on other games (many of which have far simpler character structures then CoH) and always find them so unwieldy and uninformative that it is easier and more effective to just do it on paper / wing it. :)

[azazel005]

When someone else holds all the cards, sometimes you have to play by their rules to have a chance at getting what you want.

But the rules are so slow!

Nevertheless an excellent post. As a minor gesture of good faith the wife and I actually purchased GW2 recently. I swore black and blue that I would never part with money to NCSoft again after the closure of City of Heroes but there actions are repairing my opinion of them somewhat.

[Tubbius]

Page 392.  I await information quite eagerly.  :)  Here's hoping something positive comes up soon enough!

[AlienOne]

Several things. First, despite popular opinion, all business are not driven purely to maximize profit. The people in charge, especially if they founded the company or have been with it for a long time, can have personal motivations and attachments that influence their decisions. They are not always in complete agreement with each other, either.

Second, there are cultural differences. Those are somewhat difficult to bring up around here without being accused of racism or other silly things, but they exist and should not be ignored when considering a business deal. Here's a few key ones that seem to apply. I'm extrapolating a little from other cultures in the region, so there may be local differences in South Korea -- if someone has more experience with Korean business culture please correct me if they're not accurate:

• Once your name is attached to something, especially a creative work that you had a hand in producing (even indirectly), it is forever associated with you. People will remember that NCSoft once produced City of Heroes, so if they sell it and it gets neglected or turned into something people hate, it will reflect very badly on them. That happens whether or not the logo is on it, but since they know it will happen anyway, they want the logo to stay, much as Cryptic's does.
  
  
• It's considered better to exit gracefully on your own terms, then to let something die a slow lingering death. While the shutdown wasn't handled in a way most of us would consider 'graceful', to them it's still better than the alternative.
  
  
• When I talk about their image, I don't mean with us. Yes, most ex-COH players have a very low image of the company. We are not who they're concerned about. We are a small and rabid fanbase and there is very little they could do that would make a difference there. Even their image among MMO players is secondary, as many of them (especially in Korea) are young and not necessarily the same social standing. What they are concerned about is their reputation among their peers -- other game companies, publishers, businesses, and appearance in the media.
  
  That reputation did take a minor hit among western studios. I say minor because a couple of developers made some remarks at conferences, but people are still doing business with them, the reviewers are still covering their games and only occasionally making comments, but ones that are easily glossed over and not the focus of the review. That's a small segment of their market in any event.
  
  Selling a game that they closed, effectively admitting that they were wrong, could make them look bad to their business partners at home, which is a much bigger deal. The fact that they're even considering it at all is a minor miracle. The only way such a deal can happen is if it's handled carefully in a way that allows them to save face on the sale.

This probably won't make sense to the majority of westerners who were raised with a different value system and have different social rules and expectations. But it's also very, very important to anyone who wants to try to complete a deal such as this one. You can't expect to walk in with a wad of cash and get whatever you want just because you have money. Things like respect are valued far higher. When someone else holds all the cards, sometimes you have to play by their rules to have a chance at getting what you want.

Another (humorous) way to put it....

Here's how Americans do business:
http://youtu.be/NTkN2q6sUUk

Here's how Koreans do business:
http://youtu.be/3sTpXDY_xss?t=4s

http://www.vayama.com/etiquette/south-korea/

Before anyone takes that too seriously, it's meant to humorously make a point.

Also, I'm American. :P

[Cailyn Alaynn]

But the rules are so slow!

Nevertheless an excellent post. As a minor gesture of good faith the wife and I actually purchased GW2 recently. I swore black and blue that I would never part with money to NCSoft again after the closure of City of Heroes but there actions are repairing my opinion of them somewhat.

I enjoy Guild Wars 2. Bought it the night before it went Live. It's certainly no CoH, but it's very fun.

If someone's SO upset with NCSoft that they're willing to miss out on fun, in exchange for spite... Think about it this way. You're not buying an NCSoft game, You're buying an ArenaNet game! A western game, created by a western company.
It doesn't even use the NCSoft master account system. It's ALL done through ArenaNet.


...I feel like I'm starting to sound like an NCSoft Fan Girl. Which isn't the case. I'm just tired of the hate. It doesn't do us any good, and it doesn't do them any harm.

[bugzee]

This probably may not mean anything, but I noticed that there was a change to the coh.com domain today. The coh.com and cityofheroes.com websites went dead today. I made it a habit of periodically checking the domain ownership information in the hopes that I could get a heads up of when and if the game were to come back online. Well, there was a change today. The dns servers for coh.com went from an ncsoft server to an amazon dns server:

Name Server:                            ns-1993.awsdns-57.co.uk
Name Server:                            ns-784.awsdns-34.net
Name Server:                            ns-1271.awsdns-30.org
Name Server:                            ns-112.awsdns-14.com

There hasn't been a change yet to cityofheroes.com, but I imagine there will be. This could mean nothing at all, but why would they care to move them off of their network? Maybe its their way of junking the domains, moving dns responsibilities to an amazon cloud service, or.... Maybe they are moving them in preparation for someone buying the rights? Just pure speculation but lets hope its the latter.

[Codewalker]

There hasn't been a change yet to cityofheroes.com, but I imagine there will be. This could mean nothing at all, but why would they care to move them off of their network?

whois shows that cityofheroes.com did change DNS servers, probably is still cached a few places. But guildwars and guildwars2.com also changed to use Amazon DNS at the same time, so it's likely a technical move of shifting their primary dns load to a cloud provider.

[NegativeIQ]

I am very glad to have found this thread. I have been searching all over the web for some hope for the return of CoH and I am overjoyed to find out that there are efforts being made. CoH was the only video game that I was passionate about and that let me create and develop my own character with a vast array of options. Keep up the good work and thank you guys!

[Ironwolf]

Got a nice email from Phil "Synapse" Zeleski today!

Passed him on to contact the team!

[Dev7on]

Got a nice email from Phil "Synapse" Zeleski today!

Passed him on to contact the team!

WHAT?! Synapse joined the team?! Woooohoooo! He's one of my favorite Devs in Paragon Studios.  ;D

[DarkCurrent]

Got a nice email from Phil "Synapse" Zeleski today!

Passed him on to contact the team!

Tell him I loved the new powersets and mechanics he was bringing to the game.  A+++ work.

[GN2]

WHAT?! Synapse joined the team?! Woooohoooo! He's one of my favorite Devs in Paragon Studios.  ;D

It doesn't necessarily mean he's joining the team, but it's still good news even if all he wants to do is give them moral support.

[AlienOne]

WHAT?! Synapse joined the team?! Woooohoooo! He's one of my favorite Devs in Paragon Studios.  ;D

I'm not sure if "I passed him on to the team" means he actually "joined" them... But, it's really awesome that some of the "major" devs are getting involved... Way way way cool!

EDIT:
haha, looks like GN2 beat me to it.

[Shifter]

There's one lesson, that the closing taught me, that I'll be taking with me back into CoX. I had gotten so wrapped up and engulfed in the game that the sunset announcement devastated me. So I'll be using more moderation this time, and maintaining more outside activities and interests - more of a life, as some would insultingly put it. I will definitely still enjoy it, but I intend to avoid letting it consume me this time. (If such thoughts be heresy, then so be it.)

I am one of the luckiest CoH addicts ever when it comes to this, and here is why:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cz_eZSFMXA&list=UUJ13DTphm2_a7lsLCE932Iw

This is my son. Ever since he was born, I had cut my game play down quite a bit in order to focus on real life. I had completely stopped playing CoH months before the closure announcement in order to spend more time with him, and although the closure announcement sadden me greatly, this softened the blow quite a bit.

He is 5 years old now. I've loaded up the character creator a quite a few times for him and let him build a hero and run around the city (this is awesome btw, thank you for this if you are reading this). In retrospect, I probably should have recorded him cracking up as I turned him into a flying dog, or stomping around atlas as giant monsters. He had a real kick with that.

Anyways, got my fingers crossed that everything goes well with the current attempts. I would love nothing more than to actually play the game with my son.

[Deadflame2]

WHAT?! Synapse joined the team?! Woooohoooo! He's one of my favorite Devs in Paragon Studios.  ;D

Reading comprehension skills....severely lacking.  This is also how we end up with viral-like misinformation.  Even as a joke it's probable to spread like wildfire.

[mrultimate]

Reading comprehension skills....severely lacking.  This is also how we end up with viral-like misinformation.  Even as a joke it's probable to spread like wildfire.

LMAO. I know. I read that and it was a Wow! (Where did you get that from?) moment.

[LaughingAlex]

Got a nice email from Phil "Synapse" Zeleski today!

Passed him on to contact the team!

This.  This is the news I was truly hoping for.  See way I see it if the paragon studios devs could pitch(indirectly, since I guess he's only in contact) in and help occasionally and whatnot it'd be possible to develop further beyond I24 for CoX as they worked on CoX2.  Thanks for the update!

Edit: I know doesn't mean he joined the team, just in contact, but thats a good thing.

[Dev7on]

It doesn't necessarily mean he's joining the team, but it's still good news even if all he wants to do is give them moral support.

Sorry for misunderstanding. I was just hyped up that's all. And no, I'm not going to spread the word.  :)