New efforts!

[MWRuger]

I think I'm the only one speculating about CoH2 not being in Paragon (but kudos to me for making you think it's a widespread phenomenon, I guess!). I proposed it as a way to avoid weird storyline issues that may come up between CoH and CoH2. The way I see it, there are two reasonable possibilities for a CoH2 that takes place in Paragon City: 1. It starts right after CoH ends, or 2. It takes place several years after the timeline of CoH.

There are some issues with option 1: The devs need to make sure that whatever storyline they go with fits in completely with CoH - that might might mean they go with the Battalion et al. storylines revealed in the AMAs, or they find another way to be internally consistent. Either way they will be somewhat limited in their story telling ability because it has to be tied in to CoH. This also means that existing NPC heroes will be exactly the same - not necessarily a bad thing, but maybe it'd be better for marketing and players experiencing variety if they had new people to focus on. Additionally, the problem of player characters arises. There will no doubt be some way to link a character in CoH to a character in CoH2, but I do not believe for an instant that we'll be allowed to get a max level character in CoH2 right off the bat. So that leads to an issue with suspension of disbelief: "My character was a top-level hero at the end of CoH's storyline, and now he / she has to start from 0, and no one remembers them, just a month later?" Maybe they can tie in a badge that changes dialog, but they still can't explain the loss of power very well, without forcing some sort of RP event on people, who might not want their top level character reduced to 0. Sure, you can hand wave it and just say it didn't happen, but that could be annoying. It's generally fine by me, but I imagine some RP players will not appreciate it.

With option 2, the issues are different. If there is a time jump, that means that something happened between CoH and CoH2. While this makes for a better way to explain differences in NPC and player characters from the 2 games, it also means that some people may be disappointed with whatever deus ex machina that's used to explain those changes. Additionally, there's not a lot of things, other than the Coming Storm, that could explain it, and some have said they want to experience that, not just be told "it happened off-screen before CoH2, you're dealing with the aftermath." The time jump does allow for a shake up of signature NPCs, and depending on how it's played, more freedom with storylines, but might turn people away if it doesn't fit the general "spirit" of CoH's story.

The third (and unreasonable) option for a CoH2 in Paragon City is to just make the exact same game, with the same storyline, missions, NPCs, everything - but in a new engine. This would be a bit of a disappointment to many, and would probably be a waste - why recreate when you can expand? Not to mention that some of the older missions are very linear, and presumably a new engine will allow for really cool gameplay and stories right off the bat.


The reason I'm suggesting a CoH2 set outside of Paragon City is that it would eliminate essentially any and all problems with storyline and with trying to make the game be as close to CoH as possible without redoing it. Setting CoH 2 in another city is one way to do this - it allows the new devs to create their own stories and locations within the CoH universe, and gives us a taste of life outside Paragon, while giving us a very similar feel to CoH. Plus, I'm curious about other cities in the CoH world - we always hear about them, or about organizations that are national or global in scope, but we only see a very small glimpse of them in the Paragon / Isles area. This is why I also think it would be cool to give CoH2 a more world-wide scope - let us see everything that happened while were in Paragon!

Not only does this allow for player characters not being present to be explained, it also allows a game taking place at the same time as CoH to happen. You could have a CoH2 take place in Chicago - all of its inhabitants were swallowed by Mot, and it might be fun to play a hero fighting against Mot, just trying to hold your own, even as the heroes in Paragon resolve the issue. That's maybe not the best example, but being able to take part in the storylines we used to play in Paragon from another perspective would be quite fun. There's any number of things that happened during CoH that had national or international impact, and exploring them from outside Paragon would be a great way to experience them. Plus, you could have cameos from CoH signature heroes once in a while, even if the new game has its own set of heroes. We only ever learned about 2 members of the Dawn Patrol - let's go to London and meet more! Or be assigned by the FBSA to take care of an issue in Albuquerque, where a genius chemistry teacher has developed a new super drug to rival superadine! The best part about this is that even if we take part in CoH's global stories from another perspective, there's TONS of new material that could be written, that wouldn't conflict with any of CoH's storylines. It also allows the game to have any sort of environment the devs want - Croatoa was added to avoid the monotony of "city city city" and a world-wide game would avoid necessities like that (not that that was a bad necessity, it's just that there will be more freedom of environments than in a city).

A hahahahaha!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

No offense but I would much prefer that CoH2 be set in Paragon City. There is plenty of room for expansion and retooled zones.

I'm all for adding other places to visit and adventure in, even other cities but it's City of Heroes and that city is Paragon. Even granting that it would squash lore problems (which I don't think it will), such a fix would only be a temporary one and the continuity you would be sacrificing is tremendous. Also unless you are just going to dump all of the existing CoH lore you will still be bound by it in whatever city you set it in. Statesman is always going to the iconic heroe, Hero One always sacrificed himself, the invasion was always hardest in Paragon City. 

Also, I think you are underestimating how badly long term players want to see Paragon City done with a modern rendering engine.

It will also lengthen development time as everything will have to be redesigned from scratch.

So no, I think this is not the best plan going forward.

[Nealix]

While I like the notion of going to other cities, I really don't see the need for each to have more then a zone or two of interest to explore . The buildings may be different, but in the end it just amounts to more urban adventuring which there is already plenty of. What I'd think is to start with just have one flavor filled zone for each such alternate location, covering a mission difficulty range of about 15 levels (usually the mid ranges, since Paragon / RI / Praetoria already cover low ranges well enough). If the region proves extra popular, adding another zone or two could then be considered, but the focus should usually be on the next totally new location rather then overdoing any particular one.

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing different city zones for real cities if they had some accuracy to them.  Who wouldn't to hang out in NYC in game?  Also major cities in the US, and around the world, have very different looks and feels to them.  LA and Chicago are nothing alike; Paris and London completely different.

[Nealix]

No offense but I would much prefer that CoH2 be set in Paragon City. There is plenty of room for expansion and retooled zones.

I'm all for adding other places to visit and adventure in, even other cities but it's City of Heroes and that city is Paragon. Even granting that it would squash lore problems (which I don't think it will), such a fix would only be a temporary one and the continuity you would be sacrificing is tremendous. Also unless you are just going to dump all of the existing CoH lore you will still be bound by it in whatever city you set it in. Statesman is always going to the iconic heroe, Hero One always sacrificed himself, the invasion was always hardest in Paragon City. 

Also, I think you are underestimating how badly long term players want to see Paragon City done with a modern rendering engine.

It will also lengthen development time as everything will have to be redesigned from scratch.

So no, I think this is not the best plan going forward.

I am actually not sure if I want to see CoH reimagined with a modern engine.  It wouldn't feel the same at all.  What if it ends up feeling like DCUO?  That is horrifying to me.

[Super Firebug]

Also, I think you are underestimating how badly long term players want to see Paragon City done with a modern rendering engine.

Absolutely. Founder's Falls is a beautiful zone; on the Unreal 4 engine, it would be breathtaking.

[wyldhunt]

I would play CoX in an old engine or a new.
I would play CoX with old account information or none.
I would play CoX with a subscription or a store.
I do so like City of Heroes, TonyV, Codewalker, Ironwolf, and all others pulling for its future!

[Super Firebug]

I would play CoX in an old engine or a new.
I would play CoX with old account information or none.
I would play CoX with a subscription or a store.
I do so like City of Heroes, TonyV, Codewalker, Ironwolf, and all others pulling for its future!

But...but...it doesn't rhyme!

[Luna Eclypse]

Tried playing CO twice so far. The costume creator is extensive, but at the same time lacks a lot of the flexibility CoH had. The game itself... somehow the overall look and feel just violently repels me. Too flashy, too stylized.

I bought CO when it came out and absolutely hated it. I thought the costume creator had the potential to be awesome but the vanilla costume offerings were far too silly and juvenile for my tastes. Eventually it did become awesome except for the majority of everything you'd actually want to use being withheld behind their pay wall.

The game basically operated like WoW after Emmert swore up and down that it would be nothing like it. And the visuals, as with you, also violently repelled me. Everything looks plastic, especially the character models. Their proportions were exaggerated well beyond comic book standards into something completely ridiculous. Everyone has the same face essentially under whatever half-dozen bump map effects there are to choose from, parts of the faces and bodies that should have sliders do NOT have sliders and what results is sometimes some uncomfortably questionable human anatomy.

I went back to the game after they had restructured it all as "Free For All" for a few months and gradually got bored with it again. They improved it but it's still pretty bad and the community, in my personal interactions, were not at all that pleasant.

Still has the same arbitrary chain questing nonsense with stationary NPC X wanting you to kill/gather/click Y amount of Z in an open world zone where a dozen other people are trying to accomplish the same thing and none of them ever entertain the notion to team up on the fly to get these things done.

The instance missions & dungeons are incredibly underwhelming and featureless. The whole thing is just too focused on single player and PvP. I don't see the logic in that much content being designed for a single player to get the proper experience in an MMORPG where the point is to primarily play with other people!

And Cryptic basically repeated the same mentality with Neverwinter. Played that in Beta, more of the same single-player nonsense. Star Trek Online, a little less so. At least that managed to still be fun while playing solo since it let you immerse yourself into the setting as if you were playing actual episodes of your own Star Trek series.

[Samuraiko]

https://i.imgur.com/OaR0Y38.gif

This is what I imagine it's going to be like when the new dev team finally get their hands on the code.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[Serpine]

I am actually not sure if I want to see CoH reimagined with a modern engine.  It wouldn't feel the same at all.  What if it ends up feeling like DCUO?  That is horrifying to me.

If the play-style is the same, I don't think materials reacting correctly to realistic light sources, curves being curvier, hair moving, costumes having more color selections (and slots), trees and bushes looking like actual trees and bushes, and characters having fingers is going to change the feel of the game. CoH always aimed for a fairly realistic look compared to a number of MMOs, within the limitations it had to work in, so I don't think it would be that much of a shock to improve upon that.

I really can't say I support taking all the old missions and porting them. With new technology, they can do better than the linear "go here, kill those, get that, come back, kill those" type missions.

Nothing says you'd have to keep a ported over mission as is long-term. You could import them and then later go back over them replacing segments (i.e. kill all missions, ugh) with parts that take advantage of newer mission options and technology. I have this dream where the developers would have a list of particularly dull mission paths and have regular contests using AE where people compete to rebuild them: The best entry replaces the old mission and earns the winner a title and a notation in a plaque somewhere.

But...but...it doesn't rhyme!

Yeah, I was totally expecting it to go all Dr. Seuss but it just didn't happen. :(

[mrultimate]

You should probably get that checked out...

(Also, why are you such a die-hard fan of my HS's colors?)

I'm a Huge LSU fan. GEAUX TIGERS!!!!!

[Wammo]

Thought I would throw a post out there since this is like therapy for me sometimes...

Ironwolf...I am excited like a kid waiting on Christmas morning! I am so thankful for the work you and the folks behind the scenes are doing. I am PUMPED to think that I will someday have the opportunity to turn on this old Macbook Pro and play CoH again! I am giddy with anticipation. Even if we don't have updates and I am forever stuck in Issue 24, I am PUMPED, THANKFUL and EXCITED! Put me down as "looking for a team" and "looking for a Supergroup"...Let's get this thing started soon!

[Golden Girl]

I am actually not sure if I want to see CoH reimagined with a modern engine.  It wouldn't feel the same at all.  What if it ends up feeling like DCUO?  That is horrifying to me.

Only slightly less horrifying than it becoming some cel-shaded abomination :P

[Golden Girl]

Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing different city zones for real cities if they had some accuracy to them.  Who wouldn't to hang out in NYC in game?

Well, Titan City is sort of NYC crossed with paragon :P

[Super Firebug]

A quality-of-life note for the new devs: if possible, could someone look into fixing the situation where the moon is rising in the freakin' SOUTH, instead of in the east, as it's done for countless millennia? It doesn't affect play, but it's long bothered me. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, but that hangs it by its neck. :)

Signed,
A Lifelong Astronomy Fan

[MWRuger]

I am actually not sure if I want to see CoH reimagined with a modern engine.  It wouldn't feel the same at all.  What if it ends up feeling like DCUO?  That is horrifying to me.

Unless they completely change the mechanics it can't feel like DCUO. DCUO is arcadey combo and close to twitch gaming. CoH is not.

But let me ask this, did Ultra mode destroy the feel of the game? Not for me and I suspect many others.

But it's confusing to me to advocate that dumping the lore and moving everything to a new city DOESN'T destroy the feel of the game, but porting to a new graphics system DOES.

In my perfect CoH World here's what we would see:

1. CoH brought back to issue 24 and left running

2. CoH ported to a new engine with the old content and an update for fixes.

3. New content developed for the new engine. New zones, new powersets, new arcs, new possibilities built on the core of the game we all loved.

It wouldn't include real world cities for the exact same reason that you don't see it in any other superhero game, possible legal entanglements. Some cities and states trademark images and symbols and will C&D you if you don't pay use fees. Secret World which does use real world cities restricts the area and also uses few if any recognizable landmarks. Same reason that you never see a church anywhere in CoH and damn few clergy. No reason to bring up religion in a superhero game. Why alienate even a part of your userbase when you don't have to?

[FloatingFatMan]

It wouldn't include real world cities for the exact same reason that you don't see it in any other superhero game, possible legal entanglements. Some cities and states trademark images and symbols and will C&D you if you don't pay use fees. Secret World which does use real world cities restricts the area and also uses few if any recognizable landmarks. Same reason that you never see a church anywhere in CoH and damn few clergy. No reason to bring up religion in a superhero game. Why alienate even a part of your userbase when you don't have to?

This is also why Watch_Dogs is set in "not quite Chicago", and GTA V is in a "sort of but not quite Los Angeles".

[Angel Phoenix77]

Unless they completely change the mechanics it can't feel like DCUO. DCUO is arcadey combo and close to twitch gaming. CoH is not.

But let me ask this, did Ultra mode destroy the feel of the game? Not for me and I suspect many others.

But it's confusing to me to advocate that dumping the lore and moving everything to a new city DOESN'T destroy the feel of the game, but porting to a new graphics system DOES.

In my perfect CoH World here's what we would see:

1. CoH brought back to issue 24 and left running

2. CoH ported to a new engine with the old content and an update for fixes.

3. New content developed for the new engine. New zones, new powersets, new arcs, new possibilities built on the core of the game we all loved.

It wouldn't include real world cities for the exact same reason that you don't see it in any other superhero game, possible legal entanglements. Some cities and states trademark images and symbols and will C&D you if you don't pay use fees. Secret World which does use real world cities restricts the area and also uses few if any recognizable landmarks. Same reason that you never see a church anywhere in CoH and damn few clergy. No reason to bring up religion in a superhero game. Why alienate even a part of your userbase when you don't have to?

This is very true, also dcu was made with consoles in mind. That is why dcu plays better ob the ps3/4 than the pc. Just my opinion. 

[Minotaur]

Damn, I want an apple fritter in the worst way....

Getting American Pie flashbacks ...

[Felderburg]

Well, One of my biggest Ideas for the game would have been, Cases/ (life's work) [Cant think of a good name for this] for heroes, and plots/ masterplan for villains. The plots and cases system would work kinda like the alignment system currently does where by defeating enemies your level you get either information on a crime about to go down  or on something that you could use. The Life's work/ Masterplan system is the big one, lets say as a hero you decide that you want to wipe out superdyne for example. Early on in your carrier you  will get the choice for what your final goal is for your character, gaining clues and special missions as you level starting by going after the skulls then the trolls and the family, ending with a  final fight where you can take down one of the biggest Superdyne factories. Or on the other side lets say your villain was eyeing up that nice little town over there, by spending time building up your power your villain could take over a small city and build a base of power. 

In an Ideal world these would have an effect in game for everyone, once someone does the superdyne one for example, the Skulls, Trolls, and Family, would all be extremely weakened, but on the other hand that would give the, Hellions, Warriors and Tso, the perfect chance to grow in power. And for the new villain mayor for life, reports of your strength are reported across the board, but you will have to find a way to keep your power, in a (semi-pvp) other villains can try to take your city for themselves or heroes can try to free them.

This is really really good. And it totally fits - Back Alley Brawler and the Regulators dedicated themselves to ending Superadine, and it makes sense that player heroes would have similar causes. I think lots of people wanted to see more player villain scheming, rather than wokring for Arachnos / your contact, and gameplay like this would solve that issue. I htink a new engine would allow for this not only in a sort of "getting mission from home base" sort of way, that moves you along a certain arc, but also as you go around the city, you could encounter random events that may move you along certain paths. Even as you go through the "normal" story arcs, you could work towards your master goal, either by taking out certain villains associated with your life's work, or by acquiring certain pieces that go towards building your ultimate death ray.

I agree with Serpine, too - having multiple full 1-50 paths seems excessive.  To me, it fragments the player base in a non-desirable way, and could make finding teams even on higher-pop servers a challenge if you pick one of the "unpopular" cities.

I think there NEEDS to be multiple 1-50 paths. One of the things that turned me away from CoV at the beginning was the lack of starting contacts - 1, then 2, eventually. The move from 10 to 1 in CoH was a BIG mistake, in my opinion.

Because playing alts is a HUGE component of CoH, it is important that the gameplay doesn't become stale. Yes, even when CoH was launched you had several initial contacts with a few common story arcs, and that got funneled in to just a few, maybe up to 2, in the 40-50 level range, but it was still enough that you didn't get bored making alts. Plus, by the time the game had matured a bit, there was enough content that if you wanted to level 1-50 multiple times, you could do it in mostly different ways.

[Everfreefire]

(Because if Recluse really is a super villain, why is he just terrorizing 1 city in Rhode Island? )

He's trying to figure out how there were so many Superpowered individuals in a single building in Galaxy City when the Shivans came. Anything before that was just trolling Statesman.