New efforts!

[MM3squints]

I think I'm the only one speculating about CoH2 not being in Paragon (but kudos to me for making you think it's a widespread phenomenon, I guess!). I proposed it as a way to avoid weird storyline issues that may come up between CoH and CoH2. The way I see it, there are two reasonable possibilities for a CoH2 that takes place in Paragon City: 1. It starts right after CoH ends, or 2. It takes place several years after the timeline of CoH.

There are some issues with option 1: The devs need to make sure that whatever storyline they go with fits in completely with CoH - that might might mean they go with the Battalion et al. storylines revealed in the AMAs, or they find another way to be internally consistent. Either way they will be somewhat limited in their story telling ability because it has to be tied in to CoH. This also means that existing NPC heroes will be exactly the same - not necessarily a bad thing, but maybe it'd be better for marketing and players experiencing variety if they had new people to focus on. Additionally, the problem of player characters arises. There will no doubt be some way to link a character in CoH to a character in CoH2, but I do not believe for an instant that we'll be allowed to get a max level character in CoH2 right off the bat. So that leads to an issue with suspension of disbelief: "My character was a top-level hero at the end of CoH's storyline, and now he / she has to start from 0, and no one remembers them, just a month later?" Maybe they can tie in a badge that changes dialog, but they still can't explain the loss of power very well, without forcing some sort of RP event on people, who might not want their top level character reduced to 0. Sure, you can hand wave it and just say it didn't happen, but that could be annoying. It's generally fine by me, but I imagine some RP players will not appreciate it.

With option 2, the issues are different. If there is a time jump, that means that something happened between CoH and CoH2. While this makes for a better way to explain differences in NPC and player characters from the 2 games, it also means that some people may be disappointed with whatever deus ex machina that's used to explain those changes. Additionally, there's not a lot of things, other than the Coming Storm, that could explain it, and some have said they want to experience that, not just be told "it happened off-screen before CoH2, you're dealing with the aftermath." The time jump does allow for a shake up of signature NPCs, and depending on how it's played, more freedom with storylines, but might turn people away if it doesn't fit the general "spirit" of CoH's story.

The third (and unreasonable) option for a CoH2 in Paragon City is to just make the exact same game, with the same storyline, missions, NPCs, everything - but in a new engine. This would be a bit of a disappointment to many, and would probably be a waste - why recreate when you can expand? Not to mention that some of the older missions are very linear, and presumably a new engine will allow for really cool gameplay and stories right off the bat.


The reason I'm suggesting a CoH2 set outside of Paragon City is that it would eliminate essentially any and all problems with storyline and with trying to make the game be as close to CoH as possible without redoing it. Setting CoH 2 in another city is one way to do this - it allows the new devs to create their own stories and locations within the CoH universe, and gives us a taste of life outside Paragon, while giving us a very similar feel to CoH. Plus, I'm curious about other cities in the CoH world - we always hear about them, or about organizations that are national or global in scope, but we only see a very small glimpse of them in the Paragon / Isles area. This is why I also think it would be cool to give CoH2 a more world-wide scope - let us see everything that happened while were in Paragon!

Not only does this allow for player characters not being present to be explained, it also allows a game taking place at the same time as CoH to happen. You could have a CoH2 take place in Chicago - all of its inhabitants were swallowed by Mot, and it might be fun to play a hero fighting against Mot, just trying to hold your own, even as the heroes in Paragon resolve the issue. That's maybe not the best example, but being able to take part in the storylines we used to play in Paragon from another perspective would be quite fun. There's any number of things that happened during CoH that had national or international impact, and exploring them from outside Paragon would be a great way to experience them. Plus, you could have cameos from CoH signature heroes once in a while, even if the new game has its own set of heroes. We only ever learned about 2 members of the Dawn Patrol - let's go to London and meet more! Or be assigned by the FBSA to take care of an issue in Albuquerque, where a genius chemistry teacher has developed a new super drug to rival superadine! The best part about this is that even if we take part in CoH's global stories from another perspective, there's TONS of new material that could be written, that wouldn't conflict with any of CoH's storylines. It also allows the game to have any sort of environment the devs want - Croatoa was added to avoid the monotony of "city city city" and a world-wide game would avoid necessities like that (not that that was a bad necessity, it's just that there will be more freedom of environments than in a city).

A hahahahaha!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Your not the only one who think's CoH 2 will be out of Paragon City. I would think for CoH 2 they won't just localize it to be one city, like only in Paragon, or Chicago, London, and take the lore to another level (Because if Recluse really is a super villain, why is he just terrorizing 1 city in Rode Island? ) It would be nice to see CoH 2 have all the current zones that CoH 1 dose, but you can also take a plane to go to another area where that area has just as many zones as Paragon City (of course this will spread out the user base, so probably less servers are needed.) These new zones will have a lvl 1-50 zones like Paragon City and you can start from that those cities like how you would in Paragon. It would be interesting to see if Tsoo has a stronger crime presence in the West Coast or The Family has a greater influence in Chicago.

You then can have missions that will affect how that city feels about your Supergroup (actual supergroup missions!) For example Recluse planted a bomb somewhere in Atlanta and Los Angeles. You and your SG need to form up a  raid group (or two 8 man team) to stop this. Depending on your manpower, and how hard the mission is, you either need to divert all your sg members to one city to complete the mission and save 1 city or try and do a split where it will be considerably harder and try to save both cities. If you succeed, you get a city reputation level where increasing the level will lead to  prestige, xp, inf, drop boost in that city. If you fail, the people of that city may be indifferent or act hostile to your SG (kind of X-Men in the Marvel Universe, the whole hero outcast) till your SG can makes mends. This concept is very ambitious , but one can dream xD.

[Power Gamer]

Your not the only one who think's CoH 2 will be out of Paragon City. I would think for CoH 2 they won't just localize it to be one city, like only in Paragon, or Chicago, London, and take the lore to another level (Because if Recluse really is a super villain, why is he just terrorizing 1 city in Rode Island? ) It would be nice to see CoH 2 have all the current zones that CoH 1 dose, but you can also take a plane to go to another area where that area has just as many zones as Paragon City (of course this will spread out the user base, so probably less servers are needed.) These new zones will have a lvl 1-50 zones like Paragon City and you can start from that those cities like how you would in Paragon. It would be interesting to see if Tsoo has a stronger crime presence in the West Coast or The Family has a greater influence in Chicago.

You then can have missions that will affect how that city feels about your Supergroup (actual supergroup missions!) For example Recluse planted a bomb somewhere in Atlanta and Los Angeles. You and your SG need to form up a  raid group (or two 8 man team) to stop this. Depending on your manpower, and how hard the mission is, you either need to divert all your sg members to one city to complete the mission and save 1 city or try and do a split where it will be considerably harder and try to save both cities. If you succeed, you get a city reputation level where increasing the level will lead to  prestige, xp, inf, drop boost in that city. If you fail, the people of that city may be indifferent or act hostile to your SG (kind of X-Men in the Marvel Universe, the whole hero outcast) till your SG can makes mends. This concept is very ambitious , but one can dream xD.

CoX and CoX2 being different cities is an awesome-sauce.
Prob'ly the only scenario where I would pay for more than one mmo subscription!

[AlienOne]

Give EQ2 a try. My understanding is that a DCUO lifetime = an All Access lifetime, which gives you the full subbed perks in EQ and EQ2 as well. This may sound odd, but EQ2 has the flow that feels most like CoH of any game I've ever played...a bit of the bastard child of WoW and CoH to be sure, but nonetheless the closest.

Hmm... I didn't know that. I'll definitely try it out. I have never given the Everquest universe much thought before...

[Serpine]

It would be nice to see CoH 2 have all the current zones that CoH 1 dose, but you can also take a plane to go to another area where that area has just as many zones as Paragon City (of course this will spread out the user base, so probably less servers are needed.)

While I like the notion of going to other cities, I really don't see the need for each to have more then a zone or two of interest to explore . The buildings may be different, but in the end it just amounts to more urban adventuring which there is already plenty of. What I'd think is to start with just have one flavor filled zone for each such alternate location, covering a mission difficulty range of about 15 levels (usually the mid ranges, since Paragon / RI / Praetoria already cover low ranges well enough). If the region proves extra popular, adding another zone or two could then be considered, but the focus should usually be on the next totally new location rather then overdoing any particular one.

CoX and CoX2 being different cities is an awesome-sauce. Prob'ly the only scenario where I would pay for more than one mmo subscription!

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a subscription to CoH2 would come with a free subscription to CoH. The likely goal would be to get as many people as possible to transition over (without alienating them by shutting the old game down) so it would make sense for a single fee to let people both play the new game and visit the old when feeling nostalgic. :)

[blacksly]

What knee-jerk reaction?  I was simply pointing out that what you want is not in alignment with what the buyers are planning to do.  You may not have liked the response, but that doesn't make it knee-jerk.  I did go into more detail about why it wouldn't be in their best interest to do what you're asking, mostly for your benefit as there is a lot of randomness in this thread and you may have missed Ironwolf specifically stating what the new buyers goal is.

Not you. You explain your reasoning, and it's not that different from my viewpoint other than you focusing on the situation as it is now (to our knowledge), while I'm looking at some theories that would only start applying several months after any purchase is actually completed. But there were some comments regarding "if you bother looking too far into the future you're pissing into the wind" or such. Which annoyed me, since by that argument, the game is not yet bought, so we shouldn't be saying anything until we hear that it's bought, or we're looking too far into the future.

[Wyrm]

You then can have missions that will affect how that city feels about your Supergroup (actual supergroup missions!) For example Recluse planted a bomb somewhere in Atlanta and Los Angeles. You and your SG need to form up a  raid group (or two 8 man team) to stop this. Depending on your manpower, and how hard the mission is, you either need to divert all your sg members to one city to complete the mission and save 1 city or try and do a split where it will be considerably harder and try to save both cities. If you succeed, you get a city reputation level where increasing the level will lead to  prestige, xp, inf, drop boost in that city. If you fail, the people of that city may be indifferent or act hostile to your SG (kind of X-Men in the Marvel Universe, the whole hero outcast) till your SG can makes mends. This concept is very ambitious , but one can dream xD.

Let's please back slowly away from any content that would require you to be part of a large SG.  Huge end-game raid guilds are one of the things that I specifically appreciated CoH NOT requiring. 

Yes, there were big SGs that would go and do Hamidon raids on their own schedule.

But being able to do any of the content, incarnate included, in PUGs, was part of what made CoH so welcoming and friendly from my perspective. I'd guess I'm not the only one.

SG missions would be cool, but let's not recommend paths that will specifically exclude people who prefer smaller SGs.

As to different/multiple cities, I suppose I'd have to wait and see.  I go back to what someone (GG?) said up-thread, though.

Without the city, it's not "City of Heroes."  Going to all these different real-world cities makes it more a "Country of Heroes," and if you make that country the US, well, that decision probably has its own consequences.

I agree with Serpine, too - having multiple full 1-50 paths seems excessive.  To me, it fragments the player base in a non-desirable way, and could make finding teams even on higher-pop servers a challenge if you pick one of the "unpopular" cities.

[Felderburg]

I have a bunch of ideas for this kind of CoH2, i'll post more if you guys want.

You should.

Because if Recluse really is a super villain, why is he just terrorizing 1 city in Rode Island?

HA!  ;D

...you can also take a plane to go to another area where that area has just as many zones as Paragon City...

This raises the same problems as trains - if my character can fly at supersonic speed, why take a plane? I guess I'm being considerate to air traffic control folks.

[FloatingFatMan]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if a subscription to CoH2 would come with a free subscription to CoH. The likely goal would be to get as many people as possible to transition over (without alienating them by shutting the old game down) so it would make sense for a single fee to let people both play the new game and visit the old when feeling nostalgic. :)

I think a better idea would be to take down the war walls, and fill in the blank area's between the zones.

[duane]

Maybe it's foolish , but I consider issue 25/coh2 just one helluvan update with a new engine and character model. Maybe some content retired, some added and other parts remodeled.

I am not ready to part with COH again when we still do not have it back.

A city can be a zone.  A zone could be a city.  I still want our moon base.

I love checking this thread over lunch and after work.

[Ironwolf]

Maybe it's foolish , but I consider issue 25/coh2 just one helluvan update with a new engine and character model. Maybe some content retired, some added and other parts remodeled.

I am not ready to part with COH again when we still do not have it back.

A city can be a zone.  A zone could be a city.  I still want our moon base.

I love checking this thread over lunch and after work.

I kind of agree with this, I would like to see just a port over to UnReal4 and maybe some new stuff tacked on. I really have no idea what they have in mind with CoH2, but that's what I would like!

[Felderburg]

I kind of agree with this, I would like to see just a port over to UnReal4 and maybe some new stuff tacked on. I really have no idea what they have in mind with CoH2, but that's what I would like!

I really can't say I support taking all the old missions and porting them. With new technology, they can do better than the linear "go here, kill those, get that, come back, kill those" type missions. I say CoH2 needs to start fresh with its story - sure, honor the stories that came before, but don't straight up duplicate them.

Plus, it would be nice to see some way of moving in time in the new game - many of CoH's missions were stuck in "MMO time", and I would hope that a new game has some sort of way of dealing with this.

I think a better idea would be to take down the war walls, and fill in the blank area's between the zones.

That's a good idea. It also allows for more gameplay beyond fighting mobs. You can have development / reconstruction, search and rescue, or who knows what in the new areas.





Also, do we know if the new devs are hoping to create other types of game? If CoH2 is in Paragon City, I wouldn't mind a single player game set somewhere else, or an RTS within the CoH universe.

[MM3squints]

Let's please back slowly away from any content that would require you to be part of a large SG.  Huge end-game raid guilds are one of the things that I specifically appreciated CoH NOT requiring. 

Yes, there were big SGs that would go and do Hamidon raids on their own schedule.

But being able to do any of the content, incarnate included, in PUGs, was part of what made CoH so welcoming and friendly from my perspective. I'd guess I'm not the only one.

SG missions would be cool, but let's not recommend paths that will specifically exclude people who prefer smaller SGs.

As to different/multiple cities, I suppose I'd have to wait and see.  I go back to what someone (GG?) said up-thread, though.

Without the city, it's not "City of Heroes."  Going to all these different real-world cities makes it more a "Country of Heroes," and if you make that country the US, well, that decision probably has its own consequences.

I agree with Serpine, too - having multiple full 1-50 paths seems excessive.  To me, it fragments the player base in a non-desirable way, and could make finding teams even on higher-pop servers a challenge if you pick one of the "unpopular" cities.

Heh, you make it sound like opinions on this forum will be a directly implemented into the new game (which is not true because their just my personal ideas and we don't even know if CoH 2 let alone CoX will be online) It's also sounds like your trying to quash any ideas or any play style that is not your own.  You are right that one of the lures of CoX is that you can team up with anyone, any level, any time with ease. Heck you can get a incanate trail going in a pug. My idea is not making you join a big SG. You can choose on the level of SG mission based on your SG (casual or hardcore). The SG mission are there as an option. If you don't want to do them, then you don't have to. Just having the option there is nice. I was using real life cities just an example. Like Paragon City is located somewhere in Rode Island. The multiple city idea is an idea I like because for me super hero games always felt so urban. Again these ideas, not implementations, patch notes, etc.

[Des_Tructive]

... I wouldn't mind a single player game set somewhere else, or an RTS within the CoH universe.

The Hamidon Wars and Praetorian Expansion as a Starcraft-esque RTS. I could totally see that.

[Nealix]

I would spend more time puttering around the CO costume creator if it didn't seem half the costume pieces were behind a paywall. 

I'm not against paid costume expansions, heavens know I bought every costume pack CoH ever put out (some, for multiple accounts), but coming into CO late and seeing so many pieces locked away is discouraging to what little creative juices I've left.

I try not to spend real money on CO anymore.  They offer the grind method of getting things.  You earn questionite, sell questionite for Zen and then buy the costume pieces, powersets or vehicles that way.  Same with lock boxes.  I use questionite to get zen to buy the keys.  Its a bit of grinding alerts or nemcons but at least you are actually earning useful currency, no matter that the exchange rate is sucky.

[Serpine]

I think a better idea would be to take down the war walls, and fill in the blank area's between the zones.

I'd love for that to happen. The war walls have always been goofy things as they are a setting based solution to a game engine problem. Being able to fly seamlessly from region to region rather then go through specific doorways would be an incredible experience.

Note though that I don't think further development of Paragon City should preclude the possible creation of other cities / regions to visit. :)

Maybe it's foolish , but I consider issue 25/coh2 just one helluvan update with a new engine and character model. Maybe some content retired, some added and other parts remodeled.

I don't think it is foolish. Many might disagree but *personally* I'd actually love if CoH2 started as just a re-engine of CoH. And that includes the market and any existing characters in CoH being ported over, levels and all, on the day CoH2 launches. I don't actually want a new game. What I want is for the existing game to be rebuilt with modern technology.

[Power Gamer]

While I like the notion of going to other cities, I really don't see the need for each to have more then a zone or two of interest to explore . The buildings may be different, but in the end it just amounts to more urban adventuring which there is already plenty of. What I'd think is to start with just have one flavor filled zone for each such alternate location, covering a mission difficulty range of about 15 levels (usually the mid ranges, since Paragon / RI / Praetoria already cover low ranges well enough). If the region proves extra popular, adding another zone or two could then be considered, but the focus should usually be on the next totally new location rather then overdoing any particular one.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if a subscription to CoH2 would come with a free subscription to CoH. The likely goal would be to get as many people as possible to transition over (without alienating them by shutting the old game down) so it would make sense for a single fee to let people both play the new game and visit the old when feeling nostalgic. :)

Perfect!

[Blue Cloak]

You should.

HA!  ;D

This raises the same problems as trains - if my character can fly at supersonic speed, why take a plane? I guess I'm being considerate to air traffic control folks.

Well, One of my biggest Ideas for the game would have been, Cases/ (life's work) [Cant think of a good name for this] for heroes, and plots/ masterplan for villains. The plots and cases system would work kinda like the alignment system currently does where by defeating enemies your level you get either information on a crime about to go down  or on something that you could use. The Life's work/ Masterplan system is the big one, lets say as a hero you decide that you want to wipe out superdyne for example. Early on in your carrier you  will get the choice for what your final goal is for your character, gaining clues and special missions as you level starting by going after the skulls then the trolls and the family, ending with a  final fight where you can take down one of the biggest Superdyne factories. Or on the other side lets say your villain was eyeing up that nice little town over there, by spending time building up your power your villain could take over a small city and build a base of power. 

In an Ideal world these would have an effect in game for everyone, once someone does the superdyne one for example, the Skulls, Trolls, and Family, would all be extremely weakened, but on the other hand that would give the, Hellions, Warriors and Tso, the perfect chance to grow in power. And for the new villain mayor for life, reports of your strength are reported across the board, but you will have to find a way to keep your power, in a (semi-pvp) other villains can try to take your city for themselves or heroes can try to free them.

[Serpine]

The Hamidon Wars and Praetorian Expansion as a Starcraft-esque RTS. I could totally see that.

That would be crazy. Awesome but crazy.

Okay. How about a single player rpg of a high school-aged super new to Paragon and without having an authorization to engage in heroics yet, trying to get through school while engaging in some secret crimefighting on the side. Like Bully but with the ability to shoot laser beams. :)

Or a city management simulation set in the Rogue Isles. The accidental results of testing the latest Arachnos super weapon has raised a new island. You are the dark-hearted administrator that Recluse has assigned to populate the island with castoffs from the existing ones and build it into a new source of profit and resources for his plans. Of course, don't expect any help from the existing elite that you can't pay for in favors or cash: In truth it would be better for them if you failed.

[Nealix]

For me the superhero MMO games have always been rated as so:
1) CoH
2) CO
3) DCUO

while DCUO is the newest and has the flashiest graphics I just didn't like the game play.  While I am not as much into the look of CO as I was into CoH I have to say that some parts of it I do like and I keep thinking if a game was created with the best parts of CoH and CO it would be killer.

I like the additional flexibility of the costume creator in CO.  There are arm and leg accessory slots and additional head slots to customize.  I like the ability to jump into an alert with out going all "LFT" (I was always disappointed that the autojoin wasn't used much for incarnate content much, but I did love the way it worked with sewer trials at times).

The thing that kept me coming back to CoH was the new stuff they kept adding and the incredible depth the game had due to all those years of adding content.  It has more content than CO and DCUO put together, I think.  CO doesn't seem to add much new content beyond costumes and lock boxes.  DCUO content is always paid DLC.

[Sermon]

I kind of agree with this, I would like to see just a port over to UnReal4 and maybe some new stuff tacked on. I really have no idea what they have in mind with CoH2, but that's what I would like!

I would probably stick with static issue 24 CoH over a true sequel. If CoH2 is a revamp/continuation with new technology (minus some understandable losses, ie. bases) then I would be all in for that effort.