New efforts!

[Cailyn Alaynn]

Don't confuse excusing behavior with being aware of it and taking appropriate precautions.

Gang violence is bad, but that doesn't mean you should take a stroll through rough neighborhoods at 2 in the morning.

Unless you've got Super-powers, and spandex...Or at least Powers...

[Codewalker]

Well, yeah, if you've got those then by all means go crack some Skuls. :)

[r00tb0ySlim]

I wanna fight them!  I think a perfect opening for CoH2 would be similar to CoH: Just after the attack of the Battalion, a là the First Rikti invasion.

I want a piece of them too  >:(

[GamingGlen]

No Paragon City = not CoH.

I don't give a hoot about the lore or Paragon City.  Those are just backdrop to my characters' stories.  My characters could be heroes in any city.

The game mechanics, the casualness of play, and how immersive the graphics and interactions with NPCs (although the latter could be better) is what makes COH the game for me to play.

[MWRuger]

Don't confuse excusing behavior with being aware of it and taking appropriate precautions.

Gang violence is bad, but that doesn't mean you should take a stroll through rough neighborhoods at 2 in the morning.

I know. But when we say "Oh well, that's just the way it is" we are basically accepting something awful as the status quo. Yes, they probably should know. But people should probably stop being such jackholes.

It really goes against my grain to accept this level of decorum is the way it has to be. I use a simple rule, would I say this in person to someone? If it is yes, then I hit post. If not, then I edit it or just drop it.

[MWRuger]

I don't give a hoot about the lore or Paragon City.  Those are just backdrop to my characters' stories.  My characters could be heroes in any city.

The game mechanics, the casualness of play, and how immersive the graphics and interactions with NPCs (although the latter could be better) is what makes COH the game for me to play.

I sorta doubt you don't give a hoot in reality. Your stories take place in a context of the shared world. Don't you have any character's who we scarred by the Rikti invasion or who lost people in Faultline? Even the bad guys you are fight are pretty specific to the lore. The NPC's and the graphics all flow from the lore. The scene with the returned Hero One in Lady Grey or the one in cape mission make our heroes resonate in service to the overall story being told.

I think what you really mean is that it could be different lore and it would still work for you. It probably would, but it would be a very different CoH with no Rikti Invasion or Lord Recluse. I think that what makes CoH special is more than the sum of it's parts and removing too many will make it Not CoH".

[Illusionss]

By the way, saying "That's just the way the internet is. They should have known. That's just reality." is just excusing awful behavior.

No, it is not. Its an acknowledgement of REALITY. It [the Internet] is what it is. It has good aspects and bad aspects, stating this known fact in no way magics "awful behavior" into being. The Internet doesn't care what we think, really. No one has excused negative behavior.

I often wonder if the reason we do this is because we secretly (or maybe not so secretly) want a place where we can cut loose and be rude, selfish bastards without consequence.

Us calmly discussing this situation on a relatively private forum is us being rude and selfish bastards without consequence?!

If the sale gets scuttled because of internet cottage cheese for brains not bothering to find out what's going on before opening their blowholes then maybe that consequence will be something they will notice. I will spend all the time I'm not getting to play CoH at their door until I get banned in every single FB group for harshing their "I wanna be an Ahole" buzz. Dumb Child whose Parents weren't married or whose father refuses to acknowledges them after birth! (Sigh. Bastards is just so much easier to say and has all the right connotations!)

Maybe these sentiments should go to FB. I am not seeing anyone in here indulging in said behaviors, yet it feels like you are chastising US. Which is entirely the wrong crowd.

[Scendera]

I like "ingot". Y'know, a shaped little bar of copper or gold or whatever. I'd like to see more things be called ingots.

Like, someone says to me, "Heya Trip! What's for supper? Looks like meatloaf." And I'd be all, "Nah man, that's a beef ingot."

That sounds rather Minecraft-y...

[GN2]

I'm going to be honest: One of the main reasons I ended up quitting the game before the shutdown announcement was due to my frustration with the general hugbox-y nature of the community. Any time I would say something even remotely negative about the game, I would be immediately swamped with oceans of rhetoric about how I was a hater, and how paragon could do no wrong. This also quite often extended to people taking things like advice about how to improve their play/characters as personal insults. I got more then my fair share of flak for criticizing the way paragon was handling new content, and the constant expansion of the cash shop until the game died.

With all that said: attempting to scrutinize the direction this effort is going in when it is not even complete is jumping the gun WAY too much. It's like preparing your publishing contract for a book you haven't written yet.

I am 100% confident that once the game is reacquired and up and running, i'll be getting called caustic, toxic, hater, etc for stating my opinion, but until that time comes, i'll continue to be supportive, as should you.

[MWRuger]

No, it is not. Its an acknowledgement of REALITY. It [the Internet] is what it is. It has good aspects and bad aspects, stating this known fact in no way magics "awful behavior" into being. The Internet doesn't care what we think, really. No one has excused negative behavior.

Us calmly discussing this situation on a relatively private forum is us being rude and selfish bastards without consequence?!

Maybe these sentiments should go to FB. I am not seeing anyone in here indulging in said behaviors, yet it feels like you are chastising US. Which is entirely the wrong crowd.

I Know it's Facebook. I certainly don't mean anyone here. This is one of the few forums on the net that at least tries for civility. People at least try to understand what you are saying here.

I would try on Facebook, but the minute you try and tell people to cool it or NOT to say something they scream "Fascist" and about their non-existent 1st amendment rights. "No" is the only word they never want to hear.

[Felderburg]

The same way a low-level hero fit into the Praetorean storyline.  You don't fight Tyrant or any of the Praetors at level 1, you work your way up to fighting them.  They wouldn't start off fighting the Big Bosses, they'd start off fighting regular Shivans (like the ones in the tutorial) and other foot soldiers, and work their way up the Battalion hierarchy as their levels increased, until they'd be taking down the heads of the Battalion at level 45+ (either as a high level Task Force, or even - as I think was originally intended - an Incarnate Trial)

I guess, I was just thinking more in terms of having new players come in to a destroyed city, but I guess the game can start before a Battalion invasion.

Instead CoH2 opens with the Battalion arrival being launched on the beta server. The launch event of CoH2 is a massive initial assault of Battalion forces (echoing the Rikti one of the CoH beta transition). Game assets developed for it would be specifically set to up to be usable later for smaller quick attack events / missions / and larger events on the anniversary.

[cutting cool storyline ideas]

Ehh... I'm not too fond of major storyline events taking place in a game's beta closing event. It prevents anyone who missed, current or future players, from participating.

I do like some of your ideas, especially about how the Battalion invasion changes things. The one thing that would be the worst for a CoH2 is if it's the exact same game, but with better graphics. Opening with the Battalion invasion is actually a good call, since it allows the new game to keep or not keep old characters as needed, and for players to choose what happened to their CoH characters.

No Paragon City = not CoH.

I just think it would be cool to explore other places, which would also allow for more variety in scenery. We heard about the rest of the world a LOT - why not experience it? And making a game that happens concurrently with CoH but elsewhere means there doesn't have to be any messiness with figuring out what to do with the storyline, which basically stopped for the years of the break.

Of course, these two replies assume that the new game will want to change things up, and possibly change the signature heroes a bit. A straight "Issue 25" for CoH2's start would be okay.

I will say that there was enough material about other parts of the world that it would be pretty fun to explore. For example, all of Chicago's residents were swallowed up by Mot. Let's get a story arc about heroes in a suburb when that happens (or another city that's on the verge of being absorbed - they have to fight Mot off while the heroes in Paragon do their thing to end the threat completely). There were over 20 cities that the Rikti invaded in the first Rikti War. Sure, the main portal was in Paragon, but they must have gone underground in those other cities too, right? We know the Dawn Patrol was still active - let's investigate Rikti infesting London with Lady Jane. Plenty of work for affiliates of the UN or the FBSA to do around the nation / world.

Given the amount of negativity expressed by some people over what the new devs might do with the game it may make NCsoft question the support the new devs really have for bringing the game back. After the bad publicity they received when they shut down CoH they may be sensitive to creating even more bad publicity for them themselves by selling it to people the CoH community hate.

That actually makes sense.

NCSoft did not like what happened the first time.

What exactly didn't they like? I'm sort of confused. Given that there are people saying "ok, NCsoft isn't that bad" now, and "I'll actually play NCsoft games if they sell", I would imagine that selling is better than shutting the deal down again, and receiving more flak.

Plus, I was under the impression that most of the "negativity" or whatever that happened "last time" was because they shut down the game. Unless the "first time" you're referring to is the first negotiations for the game, which I don't think anyone knew about until long after it was halted, right?

1. If NC sells the game to the new buyers, it will be a done deal and a thing they no longer have any control over. Why would they even care?

2. And I'm just sayin' this..... if NC thinks they have bad mojo from all this now, JUST LET the news get out that they scuttled the deal because faceless strangers were nattering on FB and boomshakalaka, they decide to go all Lucy-with-football-vs-Charlie-Brown with our game, YET AGAIN. Ha. What went before shall be as a minor brushfire. Rug-pulling v2.0 shall be as a direct nuclear strike.

1. Their name will still be on the game, so they have some sort of incentive to make sure it stays awesome (even though people know they're not involved any more - just like players didn't go and complain to Cryptic once the game was bought from them).

2. Yeah, even though I do believe they're trying to make sure the game ends up with a studio that can run the game well, any sort of non-sale will be a huge blow to them.

...give them their Big Red Ball...

;D

Fun...but Sony still owns Spidey unfortunately.   I wish Marvel could get the rights back before Sony completely destroys the character.

Don't they just own the movie rights? Is there anything preventing Marvel or Disney from putting him in a non-Sony game?

[MWRuger]

No, it is not. Its an acknowledgement of REALITY. It [the Internet] is what it is. It has good aspects and bad aspects, stating this known fact in no way magics "awful behavior" into being. The Internet doesn't care what we think, really. No one has excused negative behavior.

It's accepting that it is, that is the problem. As long as we all agree that nothing can or should be done, nothing will be. Why should people even try to be less trollish when we all accept that they will be and just put up with it?

I've tried for a very long time and frankly I feel mostly like I am the only one who cares about this. I'm sure other people do care, but not enough to back me up or say anything themselves. Apathy is the same thing as approval in this context. I guess if no one cares, why should I?

Too late to fix this mess on Facebook, the damage is probably already done. Hopefully this will dies down and nothing will come of it.

[Triplash]

That sounds rather Minecraft-y...

Yep. That'd be my *second* favorite game of all time.  :)

I have a thing for games that provide a lot of room for creativity.

[Serpine]

Any time I would say something even remotely negative about the game, I would be immediately swamped with oceans of rhetoric about how I was a hater, and how paragon could do no wrong.

The amusing this is I got caught the other way around a few times: Say something positive in the old forums/game about the devs and content or that people should cut them some slack and a different set of people would jump down your throat. There were, are, and always will be a vocal group on each side that is waiting to ambush any expressions that represent the other side, and in the process discourage middle-road sort of people from declaring their views. Its pretty much like on every MMO, or politics for that matter. :)

In any case I appreciate that overall the range of discourse in here has been relatively civil and evenhanded. The one thing that can bring all sides to the table is that we all miss our City.

[CoyoteSeven]

It's nice to see the old arguments coming back again, now that we're all excited by the promise of the game returning. Despair was turning us all into happy friendly people! Icky.

[Serpine]

Ehh... I'm not too fond of major storyline events taking place in a game's beta closing event. It prevents anyone who missed, current or future players, from participating.

I don't like that either, but that doesn't have to be the way it is: One area we have a huge advantage conceptually over most games is Ouroboros, which I would assume will be recreated in CoH2: Imagine if the beta closing event was made a mission or series of missions accessible via a small time hop to anybody that reached a certain level:

* Hero Version - "Hero, our analysts have been studying the Battalion first wave and realized that there is no way we should have won. Thus we are sending reinforcements from now back in time to assist covertly in the battle. Since it was so chaotic nobody should notice your presence."

* Villain Version - "Master, please don't harm me for suggesting you haven't thought of this, but reviewing the old tapes of the Battalion first wave it seems that key weapons and technology vanished during the battle, slowing their momentum and contributing to their loss. If you took advantage of the fools at Ouroboros it could be *you* who stole those things, allowing your loyal thralls to reverse engineer them for use in your grand designs."

[Blackstar5]

It's nice to see the old arguments coming back again, now that we're all excited by the promise of the game returning. Despair was turning us all into happy friendly people! Icky.

read this and the B-52 song"Happy Shining People"popped in my head( AND I HATE THE B-52'S)

[Von Krieger]

I'm going to be honest: One of the main reasons I ended up quitting the game before the shutdown announcement was due to my frustration with the general hugbox-y nature of the community.

Well, if you don't want to be thought of in a negative light that you might not want to use words like "hugbox-y."

[Illusionss]

It's accepting that it is, that is the problem. As long as we all agree that nothing can or should be done, nothing will be. Why should people even try to be less trollish when we all accept that they will be and just put up with it?

I accept the fact that I, and in fact all of us as a group, am/are incapable of changing the nature of the Interwebs. This is sad, but its also accepting reality.

I've tried for a very long time and frankly I feel mostly like I am the only one who cares about this. I'm sure other people do care, but not enough to back me up or say anything themselves. Apathy is the same thing as approval in this context. I guess if no one cares, why should I?

There are not enough hours in the day, for me to run here, there and everywhere chastising evildoers for naughty behavior online. Nor would anyone listen to me - or any of us - if we did. This is not condoning the activity, its an acceptance of the limitations of being a finite human being.

Remember the Cannibal Cop? He and many others hang out on forums related to cannibalism discussing the kidnapping, torturing to death and then eating real-life nubile young women. I doubt my going to their forums and taking them to task will get them to change their ways. If it would, I would do it.

There are even more scurrilous sites out there encouraging all manner of deviant, criminal behavior. I don't like this. I wish I could make them stop. If I ever see it IRL I WILL stop it - one way or another, even if that just means a well-timed call to 911. But this is the Internet, and I can't police the whole thing. Hell, the NSA cant even police it, much less me.

Too late to fix this mess on Facebook, the damage is probably already done. Hopefully this will dies down and nothing will come of it.

If NC even looks at FB. I would be surprised if they did, TBH. What needs to happen is the people modding the various trouble-causing FB pages need to get off their duffs and get busy.

[Thirty-Seven]

I like "ingot". Y'know, a shaped little bar of copper or gold or whatever. I'd like to see more things be called ingots.

Like, someone says to me, "Heya Trip! What's for supper? Looks like meatloaf." And I'd be all, "Nah man, that's a beef ingot."

https://i790.photobucket.com/albums/yy181/Rayares/APPROVED.png