New efforts!

[Golden Girl]

95%. But keep in mind that this is in the context of an 8-year old game. Retention rate tends to go up the longer a service runs. If you were still playing by then, you were planning to stick around for the long haul.

Which is the number one reason why offering lifetime subs is financial suicide.

[AlienOne]

I was wondering if that was THE Black Pebble..

Boy.. I would love some awesome news on the 10th anniversary of City of Heroes... tomorrow..

Man, that would be the BEST...

[mrultimate]

Man, that would be the BEST...

That it would my fellow Guardianite!

[AlienOne]

Which is the number one reason why offering lifetime subs is financial suicide.

I disagree. Economically, you are ensuring a "captive audience" for in-game microtransactions... I've paid lifetime subs for both DCUO and CO, and because I'm a "permanent" member of their games, I'm automatically interested in everything that goes on in the game--including new things that can be acquired.

I'm a HUGE fan of lifetime subs--ESPECIALLY in the age where EVERTYTHING is "pay as you go"... I cannot even count the number of software programs in my field (videography/video editing) have gone "subscription-based," and it is getting completely out of hand.

In fact, so many things are F2P/microtransaction-based these days in the gaming world, it is almost unheard of for an MMO to charge a monthly fee, because it is exactly that microtransaction-based setup which has allowed companies to make as much money as they have. There has been a lot of discussion about whether or not ESO committed suicide by opting for subscription-based play (I'm a HUGE Elder Scrolls fan--I've been playing since the Morrowind days, and have invested thousands of hours into that series--and yet, I will NOT add to my ever-growing list of monthly bills just to play that game). It remains to be seen whether or not it will work for them in the long run, but I bet you that they will eventually opt for F2P before the end.

A "lifetime sub" is essentially the same as what people pay for these "collector's edition" offline games... Yeah, it's a little more than that, but it's the same concept--and you're upping the chances that they will be there (and interested) in the new things you offer micro-transaction-wise. If they opt out of a subscription (for whatever reason--let's say they can't afford it), they're DEFINITELY not going to be there.

There are, of course, other issues to consider (like a lifetime sub giving some consumers confidence in you as a provider that YOU have confidence in your game to last a while), but in the end, I think if someone's willing to fork over $400-$500 for a single game in one sitting, they're the kind of customer you want for the microtransactions--if money's what you want....

*EDIT*
Even City of Heroes went free to play--which is essentially giving away a "lifetime sub" to the game to the masses FOR FREE. Sure, it may not have all the perks and benefits, but let's face it: you just gave your game away for free.

The real way to make a LOT of money up front is to do exactly what some of these other games have done:

1. Charge money to buy the game in the first place
2. Announce that you're going to be subscription-based
3. Offer "lifetime subscriptions"
4. Stay that way the first year
5. Get an interesting (and appealing) microtransaction system up and running
6. Go free to play

Subscriptions are always going to eventually drop off--the way you retain people is to of course have a good game (that's a given), but also make it appealing to stay (either by way of "I have a lifetime sub and I have perks, so I am going to make it worth my money and stick around" or "oh, it's free now, so even if I can't afford monthly rates, I can still play). If you don't, your audience leaves, and then you're stuck with "our game isn't making enough money....should we shut it down now?"

[Triage IV]

What do Life Time Subscriptions generally go for?  Are you talking $100.00 - $150.00, or more like $400.00 - $500.00?

The first, I could see doing...the second...not so much.

[AlienOne]

What do Life Time Subscriptions generally go for?  Are you talking $100.00 - $150.00, or more like $400.00 - $500.00?

The first, I could see doing...the second...not so much.

I think I paid around $250-$300 for the DCUO one... I can't remember.

I like the idea of a lifetime sub, but I think some of them (like CO's and LotRO) were priced a bit cheap. I don't believe in over-charging, but if you really believe your game will be sticking around for the long haul, then you need to have a nice balance between the buyer feeling like they're getting their money's worth (and a bit of a deal) as well as the opportunity to support a game they believe in, and you (the gamemaker) feeling like you just got a pot of money from someone that's worth 2 or 3 years' worth of subscription fees up front. That way, you can ensure job security for your team and updates for the game for the forseeable future.

[LaughingAlex]

I dunno, CO did that, offered lifetime, and it commited suicide financially.  The game almost never gets any updates.  Honestly, CoX had the best balance, as the paragon awards system allowed someone to really unlock everything if they wanted to do so, including some of the things a VIP would have.  The main thing a VIP had was the incarnate system, and free access to the signature story archs.  They had a few other things to, but you could easily get permanent IO, auction and crafting benefits using the paragon awards system if you really wanted as close to a lifetime as you can get.

CO however, is so black and white about things, it lives on subs and micro transactions and lifetime services are over 300 for a reason, but no one gets them because it hasn't had sufficient content in years.  If anything, if CoX comes back, hate to really say this but I really do not think CO will remain running for long after we get our game back.  Course, how you view that, is up to you.

I do remember who it was that made it impossible for CO players to really welcome us CoX players, at the same time, their lack of forgiveness towards those of us who didn't spew crap on them, and assumptive pre-judgements on the rest of us.....meh...back to the topic I guess.

Another Edit: I want no more said then that, really.  If CO does go down it'll be due to the vocal minority who were comprised of stop having fun guys, not those others were in fact welcoming towards us.

[LaughingAlex]

I'll make another comment here, I know a LOT of people in CO who want to move back to CoX for a LOT of the above reasons and the fact that it was stagnant.  And people had already moved on from it due to some especially bad content that was released recently that FORCED people to have healers, wait around all day for said healers, also grind it with the worst drop rates, yeah.  I don't blame em either.  Those that I know, well, they are excited about this, big time.

[AlienOne]

I don't know... They were pretty welcoming to me--and a lot of the people I interacted with in CO were (at the time) current or former CoX players...

And since the community was what made me want to stick with CoX (and part of the community moved to CO), I can't say that CO's community is entirely bad.

On top of that, the phrase "committing suicide" implies the death of the game. Yes, the updates may be few and far between, but CO is still running, and CoX--at least currently--is not.

I was primarily referring to the economics and viability (and on a relateable note job security) of offering lifetime subs (at least in the beginning of a game's release) for a game...not necessarily whether CO is a good game or not.

In my opinion, it's fun...but not the same kind of fun that CoX was. I would definitely take my Warshade over any hero in CO any day of the week.

[LaughingAlex]

I don't know... They were pretty welcoming to me--and a lot of the people I interacted with in CO were (at the time) current or former CoX players...

And since the community was what made me want to stick with CoX (and part of the community moved to CO), I can't say that CO's community is entirely bad.

On top of that, the phrase "committing suicide" implies the death of the game. Yes, the updates may be few and far between, but CO is still running, and CoX--at least currently--is not.

I was primarily referring to the economics and viability (and on a relateable note job security) of offering lifetime subs (at least in the beginning of a game's release) for a game...not necessarily whether CO is a good game or not.

In my opinion, it's fun...but not the same kind of fun that CoX was. I would definitely take my Warshade over any hero in CO any day of the week.

Yeah I feel the same way in that they aren't entirely bad, but when I tried to give some ideas on the forums, they were shot down and they used "well your from CoX" as the core reason.  They assumed that I wanted CO to be CoX, when I really didn't.  I also saw in zone chat a lot of trolls really taking shots at us as if they were glad the game was shut down, just my feelings anyhow, I was left alienated by the whole affair.

[Golden Girl]

I disagree. Economically, you are ensuring a "captive audience" for in-game microtransactions

And losing the long-term sub revenue, leaving you with a core player base that's entitled to full sub benefits, but who aren't paying a single cent for it - the development incentive is then to focus on ways to exploit the lifetimers in a similar way to free accounts in an effort to make up for that lost revenue.

[MWRuger]

And losing the long-term sub revenue, leaving you with a core player base that's entitled to full sub benefits, but who aren't paying a single cent for it - the development incentive is then to focus on ways to exploit the lifetimers in a similar way to free accounts in an effort to make up for that lost revenue.

This.

It's the main reason that I won't even consider it for any other game. In CoH, I would probably be happy, but as I said before I'd rather support them with a monthly. I have regretted every single lifetime sub I have every bought.

Oh I got my playing time. I can play whenever I want. I Just don't want to play.

I was a lifetime sub for CO. I was there at launch. I can still log in and play but I really tried a while ago and it still had some of the same problems that I didn't like before and had added some new ones.

I know it has fans, I'm happy for 'em. But the fact that it is up and CoH is not means nothing to me. I don't want to play it so what does it matter that I could?

But I'll decide about a lifetime when they offer it.

[LaughingAlex]

Yeah, honestly torn for CoX in terms of the lifetime idea, I can see why people would want it.  But CO just never gets ANY updates that are meaningful, the last one I saw was the vehicles update, but fire and ice?  Oh man how much HATRED I have for that one rampage, it's a holy trinity forcing bore fest of the worst kind of grind.  Some people felt that CoX's incarnate system was bad, they have no idea how repetitive fire and ice is.  At least the Incarnate trials kept you on your toes, the rampage that fire of ice is, it's either near impossible or very boring, with no in between.  To me, thats kind of an "Exit event", in a sense, in that since it's release, i'm no longer willing to play CO much, I did upgrade my vehicles to mk2, but the ones that are mk 2 now are the last ones i'll get now, even more-so if CoX comes back.  The moment the announcement comes CoX is coming back or any spiritual successor comes close enough to completion to support rp, i'm leavin CO, and nothing they can do to stop me.

Edit:  Don't even get me started on the latest patch updates, they are very pathetic.

[Solitaire]

any idea of a time frame in which this meeting should occur.. a few weeks.. a few months ??

As above, any clues would be nice  ;)

[unladenswallow]

Wow. Haven't been back to the Titan forums in several months. I stopped my weekly visits sometime in late October of last year. I dropped by to see what people were posting about the 10th anniversary and I find this thread. Holy crap!

Spent the last two hours skimming through it slowly.  Thanks to Ironwolf for getting the ball rolling again. I now have a new reason to frequent these forums again. I wish whoever is spearheading this effort much luck!

[Ironwolf]

I don't know the day of the meeting and honestly - I probably wouldn't post it here. The folks doing this stuff know how important it is and they know the pressure. Once things move forward I will be more than happy for them to tell us what is happening.

Happy 10th!

I remember still walking into Best Buy 10 years ago and seeing the game on the shelf. I took it home and loaded it up - made a fire/fire blaster and logged in. I recall the music and seeing all the people flying and jumping and I knew I was home.

[r00tb0ySlim]

And losing the long-term sub revenue, leaving you with a core player base that's entitled to full sub benefits, but who aren't paying a single cent for it - the development incentive is then to focus on ways to exploit the lifetimers in a similar way to free accounts in an effort to make up for that lost revenue.

I agree, but would not mind seeing an incentive discount for the peeps who pay 12 months in advance in lieu of monthly.

[Graphite]

Just saw this thread posted on SaveCoH FB Group.  We've been in cold storage for to long, both as a game and and a fan base.  It is is seriously time to take action.

I've posted a Call To Action that I'd like everyone to take part in.  The Bigger Noise We Make, the Bigger our Arm will be at the Negotiating Table.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9802.0.html

And remember:  1,000 people x $1,000 = $1M

I have no doubt that we CAN and WILL raise that kind of money.  Please PM me for details.

[Spadra]

Happy Anniversary fellow heroes! Like Ironwolf I remember buying my copy as well. For me if was at a new chain store by me called Game Stop. I remember running home and eagerly waiting for the load to complete while I called my best friend to tell him how amazing all the power sets in the manual sounded. That was Junior year of high school and we ended up playing in the SG The Forever Men well through and past college. We started out as kids playing and by time sunset came we were the old guard in our SG. We literally grew up with the game much like all of you and its something we will always be grateful for.

Much like everyone else I always felt CoH was my ideal game but I have to ask. If it does comeback are there any features you have come across in other games that you would like to see replicated in a risen Cox? I noticed we have been discussing CO a bit and for me I would love to see CoX adopt CO's naming convention. Instead of trying to spell your character's ideal name in the most irregular way possible (because every other way was taken on the server) All character names are directly linked to the player handle and are considered unique not to the server but to the player's handle. I had actually teamed in CO once with another "Captain Quantum" and we both pm'ed each other saying,"Awesome character design! Glad we both can name our hero what we want."

[Ironwolf]

Just saw this thread posted on SaveCoH FB Group.  We've been in cold storage for to long, both as a game and and a fan base.  It is is seriously time to take action.

I've posted a Call To Action that I'd like everyone to take part in.  The Bigger Noise We Make, the Bigger our Arm will be at the Negotiating Table.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,9802.0.html

And remember:  1,000 people x $1,000 = $1M

I have no doubt that we CAN and WILL raise that kind of money.  Please PM me for details.

I don't want to rain on your parade - but we don't know the current need for money. Until we hear whether NCSoft will sell or not to the team making the offer. No one has asked for money and the direct quote I had from the team was the price is - very doable.

Now once we do get the game back raising money for advertising or some other reason may be appreciated by the team. I know it is hard but wait for them to announce the results, please. I would hate to start raising a fuss now when you have folks negotiating. Do you think would it make the price go up or down if the CoH Community suddenly raised $1,000,000 out of the blue?

If NCSoft check, we have one main website with as far as they could tell a small handful of diehards.