New efforts!

[Angel Phoenix77]

Orly?  ;)

yep :) I should say all of the American versions of the game :D

[thunderforce]

That was my take on it as well.

My take on it is not, I think, the same as yours.

My take on it is "since that statement from NCSoft contains at least one obvious untruth, quite a bit that is very dubious, and a bunch of soothing babble, why would you conclude anything from it at all?"

You seem to be using that statement as a basis for surmises about NCSoft's actual position. I think that is unwise.

[Cobra Man]

My take on it is not, I think, the same as yours.

My take on it is "since that statement from NCSoft contains at least one obvious untruth, quite a bit that is very dubious, and a bunch of soothing babble, why would you conclude anything from it at all?"

You seem to be using that statement as a basis for surmises about NCSoft's actual position. I think that is unwise.

NCsoft's actual position is that they closed the game and chose not to sell the IP - and then released a statement that I always regarded as dubious.

I concluded that NCsoft was simply being deceitful.

Essentially I didn't believe NCsoft then which is why I'm sceptical about NCsoft involvement in our game being returned to us now. 

[Ironwolf]

1. There were issues during the sale to Paragon Studios that caused the sale to fail - it was literally down to a single signature to complete the sale. Everyone has assumed it was NCSoft who was the person who said no and based on some discussions it was not their fault alone.

2. Other people tried to buy the game and NCSoft did listen to them and then saw that they didn't have an organization to follow through on being able to get the game going.

3. A new group who do have an organization is making an overture to NCSoft. NCSoft has shown a willingness to talk - where are they now on the IP? Who knows as talks with Chris Chung have shown things at NCSoft have changed. In fact the new group approaching NCSoft has talked/is talking with Chris Chung and others to find out how to move forward.

4. No promises were ever made. The only thing people have tried to do it find a way forward to restore the City in some way. This effort by its very title is a Hail Mary last ditch improbable chance.

But you can look at it in 2 ways - peoples hopes could be dashed and add further disappointment for yet another failed attempt, or as i try to view it - we may find a way to make this happen. Thomas Edison tried 1,600 different filaments before he got one to work. I am nothing if not stubborn and stubborn people are what make things happen.

[Cobra Man]

1. There were issues during the sale to Paragon Studios that caused the sale to fail - it was literally down to a single signature to complete the sale. Everyone has assumed it was NCSoft who was the person who said no and based on some discussions it was not their fault alone.

2. Other people tried to buy the game and NCSoft did listen to them and then saw that they didn't have an organization to follow through on being able to get the game going.

3. A new group who do have an organization is making an overture to NCSoft. NCSoft has shown a willingness to talk - where are they now on the IP? Who knows as talks with Chris Chung have shown things at NCSoft have changed. In fact the new group approaching NCSoft has talked/is talking with Chris Chung and others to find out how to move forward.

4. No promises were ever made. The only thing people have tried to do it find a way forward to restore the City in some way. This effort by its very title is a Hail Mary last ditch improbable chance.

But you can look at it in 2 ways - peoples hopes could be dashed and add further disappointment for yet another failed attempt, or as i try to view it - we may find a way to make this happen. Thomas Edison tried 1,600 different filaments before he got one to work. I am nothing if not stubborn and stubborn people are what make things happen.

Interesting. This was never made known before.

Who's signature was it that caused the sale to fall through?

[Ironwolf]

It was said by Matt Miller before - that it was down to a final signature to make it happen.

I honestly don't know but even if I did - it really doesn't affect what we are doing now. The fact that it failed and the team immediately tried to find another buyer told me volumes. If NCSoft said we will never sell it - why would you start trying to find another buyer? I have no fact to prove it but I did get information that some personal issues arose and a little logic suggests saying I will never sell it to you - is quite different to I will never sell it.

My own uncle was once told by Ted Nugent - I am going to buy that hunting land when you die. My uncle was highly ticked off and said I will give it to charity first and he then sold the land for $100 an acre to my cousin. So yeah $16,000 got my cousin 160 acres because - I will never sell it to you is far different to I will never sell it.

[Turjan]

Who's signature was it that caused the sale to fall through?

I'd guess the answer to that is known to those who currently need to know, and is not a necessary (nor indeed productive) piece of info for those of us who don't.

We'd all love to know the whos, whys, and related minutae of what really went down during the closure talks, but (infuriating as it is for those of us with unanswered questions, i.e. basically every CoH player, lol!) ultimately that information sits at the centre of a mesh of legal threads that would only either unravel entirely or tangle up even more if the information got out.

And neither of those outcomes would help our cause any.

As I see it from what Ironwolf's said so far, certain stumbling blocks caused issues with negotiations during the closure, and those stumbling blocks are no longer an issue for the current negotiation attempt. Exactly what the nature of those stumbling blocks was is not necessary for us to know - at least for now.

If there does come a time when that information would no longer have any relevance to the outcome of negotiations, I'm sure we will be told - except by that point of course, we wouldn't care anyway because we'll be too busy doing the Happy Dance at CoH's resurrection party :D

[Ironwolf]

That is it exactly. While it may come out in time what happened - it really doesn't change what we are trying to do now.

NCSoft has in the past shown a willingness to talk, now the folks making the pitch have to say the right things :)

[Heroette]

I have been lurking with this thread but I want to now thank you Ironwolf, and all those involved in working to get our home back.  I hope that it is successful.  Even though I have learned to like GW2, it's still not CoH and will never be. 

[Cailyn Alaynn]

But you can look at it in 2 ways - peoples hopes could be dashed and add further disappointment for yet another failed attempt, or as i try to view it - we may find a way to make this happen. Thomas Edison tried 1,600 different filaments before he got one to work. I am nothing if not stubborn and stubborn people are what make things happen.

-shrugs- As Edison (supposedly) said  "I've haven't failed 1,600 times. I've simply discovered 1,600 different ways not to make a lightbulb".

I'm not sure of the validity of that quote. However, I think it applies here.

[Angel Phoenix77]

That is it exactly. While it may come out in time what happened - it really doesn't change what we are trying to do now.

NCSoft has in the past shown a willingness to talk, now the folks making the pitch have to say the right things :)

Plus kiss a few butts :). (joke)
I look at it as chance to be able to play once again, and maybe to team up with everyone on this website.

[Cobra Man]

It was said by Matt Miller before - that it was down to a final signature to make it happen.

I found an interview of him being quoted as saying that;

"They actively sought another publisher to purchase Paragon Studios from NCsoft. Suffice it to say that eventually the talks broke down. The buyer wasn't going to buy and NCsoft wasn't looking to sell. So, plan B, which I always thought was a great plan from the beginning was the management buyout," he revealed.

"Things looked like they were going to go well and then things just kind of stopped going well. I'm not exactly sure where the sticking points were, but in the logistics of business there's always some sticking point somewhere [on which] people just aren't willing to budge and I think that's where we ended up. There were one or two points where neither side could budge.

"On the night before we all got the notice of the studio shutting down, Brian, Ross, and Destin were in there still trying to work out that deal. We were a signature away from things going through or not – and we unfortunately fell on the not side."

http://www.gamerzines.com/mmo/heroes-signature-saved.html


Amazing how one simple thing could have caused so much grief.

[MWRuger]

I just want to say in fairness to whoever this person was/is we have no way from where we are at to know what the insolvable problem was. It could've just been a personality issue or some business point that they saw as non-negotiable (whether is was or not) We also can't tell whether the issue was on the part of NCSoft or the buyout team.

Just suggesting we save the torch and pitchforks. They won't help anyway.

[Lucretia MacEvil]

*incredulous/teasing* TheDevil suggests "saving the torches and pitchforks"?! Given his forum name, I'd have thought the opposite would be true... :P

[Kaos Arcanna]

*incredulous/teasing* TheDevil suggests "saving the torches and pitchforks"?! Given his forum name, I'd have thought the opposite would be true... :P

He just doesn't want to waste his supply. :D

[MWRuger]

As the Devil, I can say the the best trick is to be the unexpected friend and voice of reason.

Betrayal can only come after trust is earned how better to  earn that than to be the honeyed voice with steel dagger behind the back?

Besides, fire is so cliched, isn't it? I think ice shall suffice.

(to paraphrase Frost or my Fire/Ice blaster Ice in Flames)

[dwturducken]

Amazing how one simple thing could have caused so much grief.

As Matt was alluding, it's never "simple." :)

[Cobra Man]

As Matt was alluding, it's never "simple." :)

Unfortunately we'll never know why negotiation broke down between Paragon Studios and NCsoft.

Unless someone that was there chooses to impart that knowledge to us.

Who knows? It may have been something very simple indeed that both parties couldn't agree on - or far more complex than that.

[Thunder Glove]

I hope it's known to someone involved in this new effort, because it'd be a shame if another round of negotiations runs into the exact same sticking point because nobody told these new prospective buyers that it was a problem before negotiations started.

[Felderburg]

I hope it's known to someone involved in this new effort, because it'd be a shame if another round of negotiations runs into the exact same sticking point because nobody told these new prospective buyers that it was a problem before negotiations started.

Well, if it was personal, it shouldn't be an issue. If it was something about what NCSoft wants or doesn't want to keep / sell, with any luck, new parties will be more accommodating.