New efforts!

[Cobra Man]

I like the Unreal 4 look, but, truthfully, prefer the old look more.

If they had the old game come back, then, worked on getting CoH 2 out with the new engine...I would seriously hope both versions would be available to play.   In that case, I might still stay with the old...unless the new was identical except for how things looked.

It's important to look at it from a business perspective here.

We all loved the old graphics but I think it would be fair to say that the strong point of CoH was the overall  'feel' of the gameplay and combat mechanics etc - not it's graphics.

I'm not criticising the graphics here. I preferred them to CO and DCUO but time has marched on.....

The group looking to buy the IP will need to produce a viable, graphically up to date game using the CoH IP in order to maximise profits.

Personally I'd love to have the old game - as it was at closure, just to play again. I'd love to be able to log in to see hundreds of people looking to team but I realise that it would have a limited future in the marketplace.

The way ahead is definitely to keep the overall game as it was but upgrade to a new engine and add in i24 content and whatever i25 held for us.

Here's to the future 

[Ohioknight]

city of heroes was at it's core a team oriented game, but team oriented in a good way that encouraged a huge variety of teamplay in that almost every team could be different and succeed. 

And yet still allowed fully satisfying and complete solo-play through nearly all the content.

[BenshowSly]

It's important to look at it from a business perspective here.

We all loved the old graphics but I think it would be fair to say that the strong point of CoH was the overall  'feel' of the gameplay and combat mechanics etc - not it's graphics.

I'm not criticising the graphics here. I preferred them to CO and DCUO but time has marched on.....

The group looking to buy the IP will need to produce a viable, graphically up to date game using the CoH IP in order to maximise profits.

Personally I'd love to have the old game - as it was at closure, just to play again. I'd love to be able to log in to see hundreds of people looking to team but I realise that it would have a limited future in the marketplace.

The way ahead is definitely to keep the overall game as it was but upgrade to a new engine and add in i24 content and whatever i25 held for us.

Here's to the future 

What would worry me with a change of graphics would be "Oh, so we change the graphics... Oh wait... we will change that too... and that also... While we are at it, let's change that as well! Why not changing that?"

And then we end up with another game...

I know it's silly in a way to say that but I don't mind so much about the IP (if I recall, meaning the characters, the areas, the names and such... don't quote me on that, I was one of those who never really understood). If I had the choice of using CoH Gameplay in a total new environnement or using another Gameplay with Ms Liberty, Atlas Park and all that, I would take first option anytime soon...

I know things must evolve but... how to compare it... There are classics and "sequels" of classics. Like in movies, the classics are great, often, the sequels are not so good, sometimes bad, sometimes mediocre. While I know it would be theorically "the same game", if they start to touch a bit of here and a bit of there (starting with the graphics I guess), I'm afraid to end up with a brand new game... which I don't necessarily want since to me, CoH was perfect despite its flaws.

I'm not against progress but in this case, I don't see what it would improve. Someone's signature on this forum kinda summarizes it all: Don't fix what is not broken!.

[r00tb0ySlim]

It's important to look at it from a business perspective here.

We all loved the old graphics but I think it would be fair to say that the strong point of CoH was the overall  'feel' of the gameplay and combat mechanics etc - not it's graphics.

I'm not criticising the graphics here. I preferred them to CO and DCUO but time has marched on.....

The group looking to buy the IP will need to produce a viable, graphically up to date game using the CoH IP in order to maximise profits.

Personally I'd love to have the old game - as it was at closure, just to play again. I'd love to be able to log in to see hundreds of people looking to team but I realise that it would have a limited future in the marketplace.

The way ahead is definitely to keep the overall game as it was but upgrade to a new engine and add in i24 content and whatever i25 held for us.

Here's to the future 

^ Agreed ^  Get the old game going and playable while working on an engine upgrade.  As long as the "feel" does not change with a graphics upgrade, I am good with a subscription 

[AlienOne]

What would worry me with a change of graphics would be "Oh, so we change the graphics... Oh wait... we will change that too... and that also... While we are at it, let's change that as well! Why not changing that?"

And then we end up with another game...

I know it's silly in a way to say that but I don't mind so much about the IP (if I recall, meaning the characters, the areas, the names and such... don't quote me on that, I was one of those who never really understood). If I had the choice of using CoH Gameplay in a total new environnement or using another Gameplay with Ms Liberty, Atlas Park and all that, I would take first option anytime soon...

I know things must evolve but... how to compare it... There are classics and "sequels" of classics. Like in movies, the classics are great, often, the sequels are not so good, sometimes bad, sometimes mediocre. While I know it would be theorically "the same game", if they start to touch a bit of here and a bit of there (starting with the graphics I guess), I'm afraid to end up with a brand new game... which I don't necessarily want since to me, CoH was perfect despite its flaws.

I'm not against progress but in this case, I don't see what it would improve. Someone's signature on this forum kinda summarizes it all: Don't fix what is not broken!.

I'd have to agree with this... I'm all for "continuing the legacy," and I'm totally up for at least TRYING a sequel to see if it had the same "feel" as the old one, but let's be honest.... One person's sense of "feel" for the game is far different to another's. It's very subjective. So, the sequel might have the same "feel" according to the people making it, but it might not to someone who liked something different about the game that might not be the same in the new iteration.

Let's look at the adventure game "The Longest Journey." That was a CLASSIC. It had its own "feel." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Longest_Journey)

Then they made "Dreamfall: The Longest Journey." It had the same main character, and it was also an adventure game, but it didn't have the same "feel." For one, they changed the 2D mode to a 3D one. That was a fundamental difference, and something that definitively gives a game a different "feel." It also didn't have the same quality writing. In fact, it didn't even seem to have the same "quirkiness" and true dream fantasy elements the first one had.

You can SAY that "updating the graphics" or "making it for a modern audience" or "creating a different experience" is all for the good, but in the end, you may be alienating an audience BECAUSE of that, since some of those things are what pulled them in in the first place.

I'll leave you with this: This was a COMIC BOOK game.

City of Heroes looked like a comic book.

I knew a lot of people who were able to make their own "classic comic characters from the 60s and 70s" with this game...

Game graphics these days seem to be headed the same direction Hollywood is going--which is "ultra realism."

That doesn't mesh well with certain comic book crowds.

Yes, the Christopher Nolan "ultra realistic" Batman was cool and all....But, some of us liked the more "comic book-y" Michael Keaton Batman too.

Graphics aren't everything.

[Ironwolf]

Here is the thing we have absolutely no control over:

IF (big if) we can get the game back (the original) and further development occurs - it is NOT the same Dev team.

New people, new ideas - some you will like and some you will hate. Remember Custom power colors? Remember pre-Issue 13 PvP?
Remember the huge Pre-IO power nerfs? Aggro caps?

All Devs have ideas that either we don't like or don't understand. The improved engine IF we get the game going forward would mean far easier development. From what I have heard the graphical development in Unreal 4 is amazing - https://www.unrealengine.com/products/unreal-engine-4 - play the video and realize that could be OUR city.

I guess what I am saying is everything changes - we had 23 issues of change and I was a day one player, I started the first day the game went live. Some of the changes I loved, some I loathed and some I didn't mind. What kind of Dev team will we have going forward?

If the talks go well I have absolutely no doubt they will introduce themselves and be able to lay out the plans they have going forward.

[BenshowSly]

Here is the thing we have absolutely no control over:

IF (big if) we can get the game back (the original) and further development occurs - it is NOT the same Dev team.

New people, new ideas - some you will like and some you will hate. Remember Custom power colors? Remember pre-Issue 13 PvP?
Remember the huge Pre-IO power nerfs? Aggro caps?

All Devs have ideas that either we don't like or don't understand. The improved engine IF we get the game going forward would mean far easier development. From what I have heard the graphical development in Unreal 4 is amazing - https://www.unrealengine.com/products/unreal-engine-4 - play the video and realize that could be OUR city.

I guess what I am saying is everything changes - we had 23 issues of change and I was a day one player, I started the first day the game went live. Some of the changes I loved, some I loathed and some I didn't mind. What kind of Dev team will we have going forward?

If the talks go well I have absolutely no doubt they will introduce themselves and be able to lay out the plans they have going forward.

And here is the thing I was hoping to never read....

If all the "if"s happen, why don't they just make a new game and leave the old one untouched? Wouldn't that be possible?

EDIT: I have seen the video many times. That does not reach me at all honestly. I never was someone who got impressed by graphics. I could even say that I don't care much about them (if something, I was upset when they revamped Atlas Park since I liked better the look of the old one). Like many says, graphics don't make a game. If the new dev changes everything like gameplay and such, then we are not saving CoH... We are just saving a game that will look in many points like CoH that is not CoH but using the same characters and environnement settings.

I don't mean to make all this sound negative and I'm truly sorry if it does. But I think it is a huge fear for me and possibly for many others since, like someone said, changing too many things might just... kill CoH like we all loved it and at the end, not many people who fought to save CoH would play the game that is not their game.

I just want to say that I'm aware a game evolves. CoH did evolve. However, the road was staying the same in some way. At this point however, I feel it could go totally in any directions, towards new destinations that is not quite where we were rolling towards, that is not quite where we were looking to go. I'm not anti-evolution. I just don't want to lose the sight of everything we have rolled so far and, honestly, it is not characters, areas, etc that will make me feel on the same road but the gameplay itself.

For different gameplays, there is already a few projects going in that way that we all know about. It's easy to put a sticker "City of Heroes" but it doesn't mean it will be City of Heroes.

I know, again, I sound very negative but I don't mean to be negative. I think I'm just very scared of where it is going and I fear strongly that I won't see our game back. That it will be City of Heroes that is not City of Heroes.

I'm not sure if my worries are justified. But I'm certainly sure that I'm not alone to have that fear.

[Ironwolf]

I hope that there is 2 sides to this - first they just bring back the old game and possibly upgrade it to Issue 24 and then work on CoH2.

We don't know yet what the team is capable of but I know they seem very confident they can handle the work.

Personally I truly hope these are the things we have to worry about in 6 months. To have the game returning and to be able to meet the Devs - have the discussions and see the silly arguments we have about balance and aggro caps, argue lore and other issues.

That will mean we won, we got the game back. We have a name, a price and a meeting. That is so much better than where we were 3 months ago.

In short now we have HOPE. We have movement on our side now we need to see what NCSoft says.

[Jubilation]

I wouldn't mind an updated engine. As long as the playstyle is the same. Apart from 'playing', I also liked customizing my char's look or the sg base. A bit more visual oomph could be nice, as long as the core stays intact. And if it allows easier customization for the devs as well, why not.

But people are different. Personally, I would also love to have Zukunft back. It had a small population, but it felt 'cozy'. But one can't have everything. The fact alone, that there is an effort, and a chance to get CoX back is bringing a smile to my face. For that, thanks.

[Styrj]

Ironwolf, for what its worth, I would love to have the game back & upgraded to issue 24 (so much higher level content I haven't even played yet), then, have the Dev team work on CoH 2 (with new engine & bells & whistles).

[indiramourning]

They are cheering us on and want us to succeed or was that suck seeds? I'm not sure how that was worded..............

I quote Jerome Lester Howard (aka Curly): "If at first you don't suck seed, keep on sucking until you do suck seed".  Mind you, he was saying this while sucking on half an orange.

[mrultimate]

What we all really need to remember is we have a chance of getting our game into the hands of a group of people who supposedly loved it also. In my eyes that is wonderful. We tend to let our speculation run wild on what might happen when really what we need to do is stay calm and keep our fingers crossed that a deal can be made. Just remember if Paragon Studios had made a CoH 2 it wouldn't have been the same as the original.

[BenshowSly]

What we all really need to remember is we have a chance of getting our game into the hands of a group of people who supposedly loved it also. In my eyes that is wonderful. We tend to let our speculation run wild on what might happen when really what we need to do is stay calm and keep our fingers crossed that a deal can be made. Just remember if Paragon Studios had made a CoH 2 it wouldn't have been the same as the original.

I do my best to try to stay calm... not always an easy thing and strange enough, I usually have no problems doing so. Just with all the things I read here, there are so much that confusion makes me all nervous.

And personally... I don't really want a CoH 2 :p  I would be happy with a frozen state of City of Heroes like it is now. Sadly, there is no servers allowing that.

But before my exposed fear makes people think differently, I take that opportunity to say I'm NOT against the effort. I still support it but like everyone, I have my own hopes and worries.

[Ironwolf]

The game was never frozen or static - but the same game with more options and better graphics in the long run is a good thing.

Now does that mean you can't run it forever on that 10 year old laptop? Most likely in the future - stopping to savor the fact that we might HAVE A FUTURE - the game will require hardware upgrades.

What you have in your memory is an ideal - reality was that the game moved forward to whatever vision the Devs wanted. The original Lead Dev wasn't Statesman. Once the game was sold Positron was the man. But other people did have effects on the game - my own personal contribution was the Super Sidekick. I posted in a threead on how to stop power leveling a simple solution:

Make all players the same level as the mission holder or team leader (in the streets) and then you effectively killed the golden goose. It didn't stop all the Pl'ing - they found other ways but it did fix teaming mismatches. I didn't realize until much later one of the players commenting that was a really good idea - was a Dev!

I guess what I am saying is the game constantly changed but what remained was the core gameplay. I personally think the folks making this effort understand that very well.

[BenshowSly]

The game was never frozen or static - but the same game with more options and better graphics in the long run is a good thing.

Now does that mean you can't run it forever on that 10 year old laptop? Most likely in the future - stopping to savor the fact that we might HAVE A FUTURE - the game will require hardware upgrades.

What you have in your memory is an ideal - reality was that the game moved forward to whatever vision the Devs wanted. The original Lead Dev wasn't Statesman. Once the game was sold Positron was the man. But other people did have effects on the game - my own personal contribution was the Super Sidekick. I posted in a threead on how to stop power leveling a simple solution:

Make all players the same level as the mission holder or team leader (in the streets) and then you effectively killed the golden goose. It didn't stop all the Pl'ing - they found other ways but it did fix teaming mismatches. I didn't realize until much later one of the players commenting that was a really good idea - was a Dev!

I guess what I am saying is the game constantly changed but what remained was the core gameplay. I personally think the folks making this effort understand that very well.

Well, if they do, it's very reassuring. I wouldn't like to see what was CoH or what could become of it getting lost in the wave of the... how to say... MMO conventional ways to work. The population of CoH is rather large... from gamer to people who never really played that much in their life. And I think that core is what is the most important to keep. If, for example, the fighting system becomes where you have to move, roll, jump, fight, walk your dog, brush your cat, read a book, kick the soda machine, ride a car, says the alphabet in reverse and get a sandwich at the same time, you might lose the less experimented gamers who are not really looking to become huge players. If you get things too simple, you will bore the most experienced ones.

The actual core is not perfect, of course... but it is a very nice balance that not many games can do that they would be holding in their hands...

[Cailyn Alaynn]

I think most people who're working on CoH-related projects (Buying the game, building CoT, building Revival, ETC...) are far more concerned about a great CoH experience first and foremost. I'm sure than means some things will change. Some people will like them, some won't.

Do I think anyone's about to jump and do something as drastic as change the basic Gameplay mechanics? I doubt it. Most people who would want to make in into an Action MMO (Where you have to dodge, and roll, and aim)are prolly too busy playing Tera, or gearing up for Wildstar.

Change can be a bad thing, Stagnation always is.

[JKPhage]

Here is the thing we have absolutely no control over:

IF (big if) we can get the game back (the original) and further development occurs - it is NOT the same Dev team.

New people, new ideas - some you will like and some you will hate. Remember Custom power colors? Remember pre-Issue 13 PvP?
Remember the huge Pre-IO power nerfs? Aggro caps?

All Devs have ideas that either we don't like or don't understand. The improved engine IF we get the game going forward would mean far easier development. From what I have heard the graphical development in Unreal 4 is amazing - https://www.unrealengine.com/products/unreal-engine-4 - play the video and realize that could be OUR city.

I guess what I am saying is everything changes - we had 23 issues of change and I was a day one player, I started the first day the game went live. Some of the changes I loved, some I loathed and some I didn't mind. What kind of Dev team will we have going forward?

If the talks go well I have absolutely no doubt they will introduce themselves and be able to lay out the plans they have going forward.

While this is true, I'd like to think that the old crew would at least be willing to offer some consultation and behind the scenes info to the new developers if the deal goes through. We know the whole Paragon crew loved the game, and if it had a chance of being revived with new development I'm sure they'd be willing to share where they were going to take the story, how they managed to pull off certain things, etc. etc. so that the new crew can continue in the same direction.

As it's been said, I don't mind if they upgrade the graphics and shift to a new engine as long as the core gameplay remains the same, keep the enemies balanced the same way, powers/damage calculations the same and all that jazz so that you can build a team from basically any combination of characters and be able to successfully complete your missions. If they want to do a COH2, I think it'd be a really cool/fun idea if they kept the old version open, even if it just had infrequent updates, and tapped into the multi-verse for the sequel with the cities that we inhabit being one of the alternate earths so we could have the same universe to work with, but they could take events in different directions, like maybe Arachnos somehow became super technologically advanced at some point in the past so the "Rogue Isles" aren't dirty and run down but some sort of creepy dark city that's all sleek and shiny like Praetoria while Paragon kept that sort of Retro-future look similar to Praetoria. In a world where the Rikti didn't invade there would be more heroes still alive and active like the original Tin Mage, Hero One, all of Omega Team, and perhaps because Paragon never suffered the deficit of heroes that drew so many there at the beginning of the original game, we could have different locations around the world to explore like a smaller midwestern city similar to St. Louis. Endless possibilities, and it would allow the team to take the characters that we know and love and put new spins on them without it being a retcon. The original game would still be there to enjoy and none of the characters would change, but we could see different versions of them from another universe and enjoy seeing where that story goes as well. Sort of a like an Ultimate COH universe.

[BenshowSly]

I think most people who're working on CoH-related projects (Buying the game, building CoT, building Revival, ETC...) are far more concerned about a great CoH experience first and foremost. I'm sure than means some things will change. Some people will like them, some won't.

Do I think anyone's about to jump and do something as drastic as change the basic Gameplay mechanics? I doubt it. Most people who would want to make in into an Action MMO (Where you have to dodge, and roll, and aim)are prolly too busy playing Tera, or gearing up for Wildstar.

Change can be a bad thing, Stagnation always is.

Yeah. I am exchanging messages with Ironwolf at the moment. I think he is starting to understand more the nature of my worries and I understand more this is not progress that is my personal issue but losing the essential of the game like the gameplay and such. I understand evolution but sometimes, in some situation, not saying it would be automaticly the case here, evolution taken over by other people (again, I repeat, I am not pointing people working on this who might read this... I reiterate because it will hurt a bit) can lead to destruction.

So many things nowadays (not just in games) are tagged in a certain way but only to sell more when the core of what made that certain something before is not even there anymore. Catching my drift?

[AlienOne]

I am hoping beyond all hope that my ability to build my Warshade the way I was before (and created a guide for) will be essentially the same.

My worries are that Kheldians will be the first option to "scrap" when a game is remade (IF the game is remade), because they were certainly the most complicated (and in my opinion most interesting) way to build a toon in CoH.

[Cailyn Alaynn]

@AlienOne: I rarely ever played Khelds...but I loved the concept of them. I loved the idea of an AT that was directed at experienced players. I was kind of upset when they dropped the level req to 20. I felt they were something a player needed to play through to 50 at least once, if not 2-3 times to really appreciate and use well.

@BenshowSly, and...everyone else: As is prolly obvious with Revival...I'm a big fan of newer, nicer graphics.

However.

If the team who buys CoH tries to drastically change the gameplay, I'd be at the head of mob with a whole BAG of pitchforks strapped to my back!