New efforts!

[AlienOne]

And while you're at it, would you like to buy mining rights on mars? :p
All I'll say is that it pays to be observant. Had you paid attention, you'd have a good idea as to at least some of the people involved. And I'll say this much: I see no reason whatsoever to question their ability.

Unless there are people who have outright come out and said "I'm working on it," all of that "good idea" of who's involved is purely speculation.

Again, I'll go with hard facts over pure wishful thinking.

In fact, related to this effort here, I'd have a hard time believing Ironwolf about this effort, if there weren't some people I respected that also believed him and vetted him. I grew up in Missouri, and some of that "show me state" mentality has rubbed off on me. I lean more towards "I'll believe it when I see it" than "you said that it's true? Ok! I'll believe you right away!"

I think it's much better to have a healthy dose of skepticism about most things, because that causes people to find things out for themselves and believe facts over fiction.

You don't believe everything they say on the news, do you? :P

[Golden Girl]

You lose all the time invested achievements you ever obtained.  Characters, badges, vet rewards, inf, base and base items, crafted items.

Although losing bases would obviously be annoying and frustrating, it could also be viewed as a chance to totally rewrite the base system from scratch without having to worry about its impact on existing bases.

[drmanbot]

Of all the badges I would be upset losing it would be that @#$#@$#$@# Keyes Trial Badge avoids the green stuff.

I swear to Zod if  I have to do that again....

[AlienOne]

Of all the badges I would be upset losing it would be that @#$#@$#$@# Keyes Trial Badge avoids the green stuff.

I swear to Zod if  I have to do that again....

Yeah... I had over a thousand badges (can't remember exactly how many)... It'd take me forever to get all of them back...lol

Not that I'm necessarily complaining...it'd be fun to get them all again--but it WOULD take forever! A lot of those badges are awarded after an accumulation of a LOT of things accomplished (healing badges for a non-healer type, anyone?)... But, I'd still love to have the game back either way...with or without data.

[Black Gold]

Of all the badges I would be upset losing it would be that @#$#@$#$@# Keyes Trial Badge avoids the green stuff.

I swear to Zod if  I have to do that again....

LOL! I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that! But seriously, for the chance to fly the skies of Paragon again... I'd deal with it!

[LaughingAlex]

I wasn't that badge heavy of a player.  I spent most of my time thinking of new odd-ball combo's the 'other' min/maxers avoid due to knockback.

[mr hobbler]

I personally don't care if I have to start from scratch I just want to run in the city again and play !   

[Gorgar]

CoH, Volume I is over.  I'd love the chance to participate in Volume II.  If I have to start over, fine.  What was accomplished back in the day still happened.  This is a new era now.  I wouldn't mind having all my stuff back, including rather a lot of IO sets from the store and all my characters, costumes, powersets, etc.  But the way I see it, the stuff I bought, I bought from the people running the show back in the day.  If there's a new era, the people putting forth the effort and the money are the ones I will be dealing with, and whatever they offer, whether it includes old stuff or not, is a hell of a lot better than my CoH options right now.

The only thing I wouldn't want to see is not having any way to get at what was premium content under the old system.  Vet rewards might be a bit silly to bring back exactly as they were if everyone has to wait to get them. 

Most important thing: get the game back!
Second most important: Issue 24.

Thanks to everyone involved in getting us this far.  I would love to be able to play again.  Just being able to seriously consider who I'd reroll first (if necessary), etc has been a lot of fun.

[MWRuger]

Unless there are people who have outright come out and said "I'm working on it," all of that "good idea" of who's involved is purely speculation.

Again, I'll go with hard facts over pure wishful thinking.

In fact, related to this effort here, I'd have a hard time believing Ironwolf about this effort, if there weren't some people I respected that also believed him and vetted him. I grew up in Missouri, and some of that "show me state" mentality has rubbed off on me. I lean more towards "I'll believe it when I see it" than "you said that it's true? Ok! I'll believe you right away!"

I think it's much better to have a healthy dose of skepticism about most things, because that causes people to find things out for themselves and believe facts over fiction.

You don't believe everything they say on the news, do you? :P

Huge difference between being a skeptic and being cynical. I'll bet you never saw a quantum particle either but they do exist, whether you saw one or not.

Believe or disbelieve as you like, your choice. But in absence of  evidence to the contrary, I'll side with hope rather than with the comfort of skepticism. The world should not be defined by only what is likely but also what is possible. I'll take the possible.

[drmanbot]

Yeah... I had over a thousand badges (can't remember exactly how many)... It'd take me forever to get all of them back...lol

Not that I'm necessarily complaining...it'd be fun to get them all again--but it WOULD take forever! A lot of those badges are awarded after an accumulation of a LOT of things accomplished (healing badges for a non-healer type, anyone?)... But, I'd still love to have the game back either way...with or without data.

I had over a grand too, but honestly I would almost look forward to the challenge of getting them again, and wouldn't be short on TF or trial team mate...

[AlienOne]

Huge difference between being a skeptic and being cynical. I'll bet you never saw a quantum particle either but they do exist, whether you saw one or not.

Believe or disbelieve as you like, your choice. But in absence of  evidence to the contrary, I'll side with hope rather than with the comfort of skepticism. The world should not be defined by only what is likely but also what is possible. I'll take the possible.

You're assuming that skepticism means an inability to hope. I hope that the game gets reinstated. However, it can also be said that it's "possible" that there's a great flying spaghetti monster. Not likely, but possible.

As stated before, I tend to only "believe" and "hope" when there is evidence to support it. Let's use quantum particles as an example, since you brought it up. There is evidence to support it and a strong consensus among highly respected individuals that it is true, and therefore, I can find it easier to believe.

Now, let's take this effort. There is no evidence to support it, but there is a strong consensus among people I respect that the individual acting as "representative" is telling the truth.

Now, let's take SCoRE. There is no evidence, no facts, and no strong consensus that there is even a slight bit of shred of accomplishment by a group of any sort. Someone may (in the future) come forward and say "yes, there was a group that got together and tried something and eventually failed." Or, they might say, "we're progressing better than we thought we would." Or, they might even say, "we're done." At this point, there hasn't been any inkling of any of that. Just pure conjecture, wishful thinking, theories, and "hope."

I've been let down FAR too many times in my life to jump on every bandwagon and "hope" something works out.

As far as I see it, there are two categories of people when it comes to supporting games:

1. The people that "hope" that a game turns out well (and trust everyone else to bring that about).

2. The people that act (actively support it) via monetary support or personal time to ensure a game turns out well.

I tend to fall in the latter category--more from a monetary point of view, because I don't know the slightest bit about coding. However, I can't just throw money at everything that crosses my path. I have to be discerning. I have to have more than "hope" before I throw my full support behind something. I have to have "the facts, ma'am...just the facts."

This situation (from this thread) is a little tricky. I trust the people saying it's true, but everything's still up in the air. So, there's nothing I can do to support it except "wait and see." If things come to fruition and an announcement is made, then I can support it in any way that I can. With SEGS, I saw there was some actual work being done. Still a long way to go, but still work being done. SCoRE? No such thing.

Look at it from a "Producer" angle. Would you throw your money at a project that was able to show you pre-visualizations, a script, a plan/vision, and/or actor/actress name attached, or would you throw your money at a dude that says "yo, man, I got this thing....this thing that I'm working on...it's gonna be HUGE...I don't have anything to show you, but trust me, it's SO COOL"?

Personally, I'd say, "Hit the road until you can come back with something I can work with."

[MWRuger]

Like I said, do as you wish.

I have no reason to believe that this isn't a sincere, truthful effort. Therefore I will live in hope that the game is coming back.

I will get months of hope. You will get one moment of "I told you so!" and the cold comfort of being right about no CoH. I know which I will pick.

PS. If there is a beta, I suggest that you take no chances as it might still be a false hope. The same with preregistration of names. It still might all fall apart at the last minute. Best to wait a few months to make sure that it is really happening. After all, the game might close for some reason.

[AlienOne]

Like I said, do as you wish.

I have no reason to believe that this isn't a sincere, truthful effort. Therefore I will live in hope that the game is coming back.

I will get months of hope. You will get one moment of "I told you so!" and the cold comfort of being right about no CoH. I know which I will pick.

PS. If there is a beta, I suggest that you take no chances as it might still be a false hope. The same with preregistration of names. It still might all fall apart at the last minute. Best to wait a few months to make sure that it is really happening. After all, the game might close for some reason.

Are you even reading what I'm writing?

Your last comment stinks of assumptions.

You DO realize I've been saying all along that a simple showing of something--ANYTHING--is a solid indication that something is going on. Soooo.... A beta? That's something. An announcement? That's something. A 125-page thread containing un-debunked updates? That's something.

SCoRE? Nothing. Simply nothing. For what...three years? How much hope do you have to have?

I'll re-state... I HOPE that this works out. I have FAR more hope in this project than anything that anyone could tell me about SCoRE at this point.

[BadWolf]

Look at it from a "Producer" angle. Would you throw your money at a project that was able to show you pre-visualizations, a script, a plan/vision, and/or actor/actress name attached, or would you throw your money at a dude that says "yo, man, I got this thing....this thing that I'm working on...it's gonna be HUGE...I don't have anything to show you, but trust me, it's SO COOL"?

But...I mean...nobody's asking you for money. Or assistance. Or anything, really. A bunch of people you don't know, are off doing something you're not aware of, and you jumped into a conversation between two other individuals to mention that you're pretty sure they're failing at it, based on nothing beyond your opinion that it would be really hard. That's not skepticism, that's cynicism.

[AlienOne]

But...I mean...nobody's asking you for money. Or assistance. Or anything, really. A bunch of people you don't know, are off doing something you're not aware of, and you jumped into a conversation between two other individuals to mention that you're pretty sure they're failing at it, based on nothing beyond your opinion that it would be really hard. That's not skepticism, that's cynicism.

I wasn't speaking about this effort. I was speaking about SCoRE's "effort."

I am skeptical about SCoRE's effort--not this one. I can tell you missed half of our conversation.

[FourSpeed]

Hmmmm...  we might be gettling a little far afield with this quibbling over the mystical
(mythical?) Cabal, their existence, their efforts, their successes, their failures...

Immaterial to this thread, imho.  Like our mystical CoH purchasers, I'd expect that if (or
when) either of these groups have something interesting to impart, it will become known
to us in due course.

Back on the topic of data, I thought I'd toss out a few thoughts.

1. Be aware that we're talking about two different types of data:  a>  Account Data -- who
the customers are, their names, addresses, payment details etc.  b>  Gaming Data -- your
characters, badges, items, etc.

These data, while linked would be kept and stored separately (for a number of reasons).

2. Assumptions: Having worked for a number of large companies, I'm definitely in the
camp of those thinking the Account data is probably still available -- Customer information
is *gold* and rarely thrown away.

The Gaming data might be available, and then again, it might not be - it's usually not as
valuable as Account data, but it could easily have been retained as part of the code base
and server backups.

I would expect them to have those backups as there'd be nothing to sell otherwise  ;)

So, the actual questions are: What data DID NCsoft keep? Are those among the "assets"
available for purchase?

So, purely in the interest of speculative chatter, let's assume "yes" to both (Not much to
discuss if it's "no").

The Gaming Data would port directly back into the game - depending on how many servers
they'd use, and whether they prefer to start from scratch (there are a few bennies to that
approach from their standpoint) or use that existing data, they'd definitely have some work
to do to resolve name conflicts, re-establish links to the Account data, etc.  A Pita, but doable.

For the Account data itself, assuming NCsoft is NOT involved post-sale, is just data. They
would need their own accounting/registration system anyway, unless the "deal" is to hire
them to be the new Cryptic/Paragon under NCsoft's parentage. I don't get that feeling, so I
think they're buying it from NCSoft entirely, and would need their own system (3rd party
perhaps, or in-house, but either way, not NCsoft's system).

In that case, they'd likely do what we did at a major bank I worked for, a couple decades
back, who liked to buy up smaller community banks. We'd basically get their portfolio of
Account Data, and we'd spin it  through a number of proccesses to reformat it from
whatever layouts they were using into formats that would be imported into our banking
system and databases.  We'd then send out notifications (required by law, for banks),
notifying said customers of the sale of their bank and their conversion/addition as new
members of our bank.

While it too is a bunch of work, it's not particulary difficult to do. 

So, assuming the data IS available, AND they get it in the sale, AND they want to use it,
it's very doable, but potentially one part of the reason the game wouldn't be online
immediately post-sale ... it's a lot of work.

Of course, if they go from scratch, they could potentially have the game back up in
relatively short order, once they validate the codebase and servers, and tie it into
whatever accounting system they plan to use.

Of course, what they might do is pure speculation on my part   ;D

Back to the real mantra.


1.  Get the game first.
2.  Sort out the rest after that...


Cheers,
4

[mrultimate]

Ruffles have ridges.

[dwturducken]

Not to derail this stream of consciousness, but, you know, why the heck not?

Throughout the various threads and boards, here, the notion of "CoH2" has been bandied about, but it's always been this nebulous *thing*, like "America" in Parts: The Clonus Horror.

What would CoH2 be? I mean, a lot of "problems" with the original game could be solved by a simple port to a modern engine, which a certain more popular game of about the same age has already done once and appears to be on the verge of doing again. That doesn't make for a new game, and, while I'm not active on that game's forums, no one in the gaming media is talking about WoW2. So, do we really want CoH2? Don't we really just need improvements to CoH1?

Granted, Guild Wars2 was ragingly successful, but that game added a lot of content and options not available in the first game. I never really felt that CoH was lacking in anything, though, after the shutdown, I learned of the limitations in the zone count and some other things, but, again, this sounds like something that could be corrected on the back-end without having to create a whole new game. Am I missing something?

[Golden Girl]

Not to derail this stream of consciousness, but, you know, why the heck not?

Throughout the various threads and boards, here, the notion of "CoH2" has been bandied about, but it's always been this nebulous *thing*, like "America" in Parts: The Clonus Horror.

What would CoH2 be? I mean, a lot of "problems" with the original game could be solved by a simple port to a modern engine, which a certain more popular game of about the same age has already done once and appears to be on the verge of doing again. That doesn't make for a new game, and, while I'm not active on that game's forums, no one in the gaming media is talking about WoW2. So, do we really want CoH2? Don't we really just need improvements to CoH1?

Granted, Guild Wars2 was ragingly successful, but that game added a lot of content and options not available in the first game. I never really felt that CoH was lacking in anything, though, after the shutdown, I learned of the limitations in the zone count and some other things, but, again, this sounds like something that could be corrected on the back-end without having to create a whole new game. Am I missing something?

I think that the sequel thing would be more for marketing, to make it seem fresh and new - packaging CoH in a new engine as a totally new game would probably attract more attention than simply announcing an engine change.

[ag88t88]

I think that the sequel thing would be more for marketing, to make it seem fresh and new - packaging CoH in a new engine as a totally new game would probably attract more attention than simply announcing an engine change.

I think that either way it would be on the marketing team to generate buzz for the game. That being said while announcing a sequel might be eye catching, I think announcing the return of City of Heroes as the "second coming" and playing up the resurrection angle and a new engine and upgrades on top of it, would be just as eye catching.

Also if they advertise it as "CoH2" and it's the same game with just some upgrades, some people are going to be upset and feel it was all a lie, when they can make a big deal out of the return and upgrades in other ways that will seem less deceitful.