New efforts!

[Vee]

never got to the soft cap on regen or my "new" favorite of will power.

I tried a defense build for regen once. Live and learn.

[Arcana]

Do you think the devs contemplated perma-hasten (I think so) perma dom (seems reasonable), but perma Phantom Army??

I know for a fact they did.  Heck, back in the day (pre Issue 5) we used to *stack* the PA.  Those were the days.

Perma-PA existed in what I would call a local minimum of objection.  Which is to say, you ask any dev if perma-PA was a good idea, and I think the consensus would be "no."  Okay, so why did we get to have perma-PA?  Because if you ask all those devs how to fix perma-PA, you'd get a ton of different totally incompatible answers to that question, and for every possible way to do that, you'd get even more devs who would say the cure was worse than the disease.

In other words, the devs knew perma-PA was problematic.  But the only thing they agreed on was that the harm generated by trying to change it was greater than the harm it caused in the first place.  As a result, and because perma-PA was a degenerate case in the first place (not hard for power builders to achieve, but probably less than 1% of all actual Illusion controllers had it), they left it alone.

The best case was if we never got it.  But once we did, everyone who built towards it would be harmed if it was taken away.  That's still okay in an MMO, provided the benefits you achieve are worth it.  The benefits of taking perma-PA away were not deemed important enough.  That's what I mean when I refer to it as a "local minimum."  Perma-PA is not good (from a game design perspective) but every nearby alternative possibility is worse.  The best situations that are better are either difficult or impossible to achieve (for example, if you kick every customer with Illusion out of the game and then redo the set, you don't have to face preconceptions of how the set works or preexisting builds, but that option is impractical).

[Arcana]

I tried a defense build for regen once. Live and learn.

Trying to make a pure-passive (as in defense/offense not toggle/passive) soft-capped regen build was impractical, and the results usually not a lot of fun to play.  The trick was to think outside the box, and go with something like Katana/Regen or DM/Regen.  With Katana you have a huge source of melee/lethal defense in DA, and you can build around that so that you might not have full soft-cap defense protection to everything, but enough protection to be extremely strong in most circumstances.  Ditto DM and its tohit debuffs.

You didn't need to shut off all damage with defense when you had regen, you just had to slow it down enough.  Regen did really well with "incomplete" protection like Divine Avalanche or even things like touch of fear and tohit debuffs.  In fact, Regen did really well with MA/Regen and Dragon's Tail on ultrahigh recharge.  That alone often provided enough damage mitigation to double regen's survivability.

[Vee]

Yeah it was early in my coh career when I was just learning about the benefits of defense but didn't know enough to realize 30ish defense with 0 ddr was actually worse than 0 defense since I had to gimp my rech/hp/regen so much to even get to those numbers. I had clawls so decent mitigation from focus and shockwave were already there and worked fine with regen's tools, especially once they changed MOG to its final iteration and GR made shadow meld available to scraps.

[Dareon Kale]

Regen scrapper edition could get 45 seconds or so of capped defense with a recharge build if you took the Soul Mastery epic pool. Shadowmeld, Moment of Glory, and Shadowmeld again. It required that you had 14-15% base defense, and then shadowmeld could get you about 30%. If you were rocking enough recharge to perma-hasten, then you also had enough to get Shadowmeld's cooldown down to the 30 seconds needed to bookend it around Moment of Glory. You would also be rolling out Reconstruction every 15-18 seconds and be able to maintain around 50% uptime on Instant Healing. At that point, it becomes rather difficult to die unless you are really trying to do so. You also had the benefit of being able to use some rather silly good dps chains, if you were into that sort of thing.

[brothermutant]

So...162 potential builds is too much? Not enough? Not sure but I think a couple of these are duplicates by mistake.

;)
Anywho, I like Mids. I like dreaming of my awesome toons once our game comes back to us. I also like that we could swap out builds IN GAME, which is why I make a UBER build, a all around great build, and of course a lvl 30ish slotted build for those low TFs I like to run (LOVE eradication set).

[ivanhedgehog]

So...162 potential builds is too much? Not enough? Not sure but I think a couple of these are duplicates by mistake.

;)
Anywho, I like Mids. I like dreaming of my awesome toons once our game comes back to us. I also like that we could swap out builds IN GAME, which is why I make a UBER build, a all around great build, and of course a lvl 30ish slotted build for those low TFs I like to run (LOVE eradication set).

I am not touching mids until there is an announcement. I got overly optimistic a year ago and now I am just waiting. I do wish they would hurry, swtor seems to be going downhill faster all the time

[Sinistar]

So...162 potential builds is too much? Not enough? Not sure but I think a couple of these are duplicates by mistake.

;)
Anywho, I like Mids. I like dreaming of my awesome toons once our game comes back to us. I also like that we could swap out builds IN GAME, which is why I make a UBER build, a all around great build, and of course a lvl 30ish slotted build for those low TFs I like to run (LOVE eradication set).

Been going through my old database file for all the characters I had created on all my accounts, then I saw in it the list of names that I hadn't created for and have been trying to create builds for them without repeating archetype+powerset choices from other characters.  Not easy.  :)   

Of course if one is an elect/elect tank, then I still make elect/elect brute and scrapper, but I avoid having more then one invul/ss tank. One "superman" is enough

[brothermutant]

Of course if one is an elect/elect tank, then I still make elect/elect brute and scrapper, but I avoid having more then one invul/ss tank. One "superman" is enough

Don't say that too loud, you'll get genericized.  :roll: lol

Yeah, I have names I find cool and do multiple iterations with various power sets. Dark Spark is one of them and he is a blaster, a tank, and a Troller so far. Will inevitably make a Scrapper OR Brute/Stalker/Defender OR  Corruptor/Dominator. I like doing theme builds like this and trying to see how my Dark Melee/Elec armor BRUTE would compare to an Elec Melee/Dark Armor Stalker, for instance.

One of the things I had been toying with in Mids to occupy the dead time was to make Tri-something builds. For example, a Fire/Fire/Flame mastery blaster or a Tri-dark Defender or Tri-Elec Troller (I count Storms as an ELEC set cuz of the storm). Most are funny, but oddly very few synergize well enough to keep my theoretical toon/team alive.

The NEWEST thing I have been playing with is that oh so UBER build for each set (NOT for PvP though). I pretend I want the best bad guy "arrestor" with the most protection/survivability with a dash of AV/Monster killer in the mix. Its not easy and I almost always try to work in a "pet" of some kind, even if its just the Epic Power Pool one. After that, I require a semi-spammable minus regen move (very hard to get on most ATs), a self heal (better if its a Plus Regen but either works), a good debuff move or two (talking -def/-resist/-To Hit/-Dmg), and an ever popular PLUS End move for me (keeps me in the fight longer). If I could easily work in a SELF REZ, that woud be awesome, but then that usually limits me to a Fire or Dark Ancillary set, which is fine I suppose. Some of the better power sets I found are (in no particular order): Poison, Rad, Cold, Dark, & Time Manip. Storm didn't make the cut because of NO -Regen for those AV/Monster fights. So if I can work in a primary or secondary that gives me a -Regen power, Storm goes back on the list.

[WildFire15]

Seriously though, until they announce that talks have failed I will continue to believe they are ongoing and under NDA.

I'm just occasionally lurking around this board and thinking exactly the same.

[blacksly]

Storm didn't make the cut because of NO -Regen for those AV/Monster fights. So if I can work in a primary or secondary that gives me a -Regen power, Storm goes back on the list.

Storm's damage powers (Tornado & L Storm), with a high recharge build, do about 100 DPS long-term (after factoring in for an assumed 50% resistance on the AV, and for -Resist from Freezing Rain). Consider that a power that shuts off the AV's Regen completely does about 95 DPS (and that there are very few sets that put out that high -Regen on a permanent basis), and you see that Storm's Damage is better than the -Regen of just about every other anti-AV set except for Psychic Assault, Traps, and maybe Mental Manipulation. Then, its -Resist power (Freezing Rain) is one of the better ones.

It's definitely a good anti-AV set, although you have to be careful with pairing it... it will draw a good amount of Endurance with FR, Tornado, and LStorm, so it should go with a Controller set since they can get away with less attack spamming, MMs (for the same reason), or an endurance-efficient blast set like Electric, Sonic, or Fire.

To put it another way... I run DPS calculations for all my builds against level 50AVs with 50% resist to everything (which is higher resist than average, so it gives an advantage to -Regen powers), and the highest DPS builds that I have for each AT are:
MM: Demon/Storm
Troller: Illusion/Storm. Illusion/Cold might be better, depending on some build options.
Defender: Storm/Sonic. I don't recall if I calculated this for Corruptors, but it might also be the highest there
Dominator: Fire/Fire/Cold (because of FR, of course).

Yes, Freezing Rain is that good. Also, the -Resist from Sonic and Demons improves the Damage of Storm but not the -Regen of the other sets, so if you pair a set with -Resist and Storm, you end up with really nice damage improvement for both the primary and the secondary sets.

[Azrael]

Trying to make a pure-passive (as in defense/offense not toggle/passive) soft-capped regen build was impractical, and the results usually not a lot of fun to play.  The trick was to think outside the box, and go with something like Katana/Regen or DM/Regen.  With Katana you have a huge source of melee/lethal defense in DA, and you can build around that so that you might not have full soft-cap defense protection to everything, but enough protection to be extremely strong in most circumstances.  Ditto DM and its tohit debuffs.

You didn't need to shut off all damage with defense when you had regen, you just had to slow it down enough.  Regen did really well with "incomplete" protection like Divine Avalanche or even things like touch of fear and tohit debuffs.  In fact, Regen did really well with MA/Regen and Dragon's Tail on ultrahigh recharge.  That alone often provided enough damage mitigation to double regen's survivability.

MA was fun with Regen.  Dragon's tail whipped posterior.  Gave Regen breathing room.  I wish I had it on ultra recharge.  I didn't get into 'IO'ing builds until relatively late in my 8(?) years of playing the game...

Katana/Will Power was cool.  Divine Av?  (Defence buff?)  That rocked.  Apply it twice for 56%(?) defence?  Can't remember exactly but...it was the 'Wilkinson Sword shaving kit' of mob salami slicing.

Wish I'd got into IO'ing a bit sooner.

Even my Dark Melee/Energy Shields (L36?) or even my Elec/Elec (L42?) stalker would have benefitted from it...maybe even my Peace Bringer (L44)  too come to think of it...and what about my War Shade that I 'only' got to L41...and...

I want the game back so I can at least try Arcana's Krazy Turbo Charged En/EN blaster with 170% reload!!!  The 'Scar Face' build...'Say hello to my little friend...'  Can you imagine blapping and energy torrenting as a 3rd attack...

...Geeze...NC Soft had to go ahead and close the game instead of 'giving' it to the fan base to run on community servers...

Azrael.

[rebel 1812]

I won't jump on you because you may not be following closely.

A non-disclosure agreement can be set up many ways. One of those ways is you cannot disclose that you are under the agreement. This is obviously the way the NCSoft agreement is worded. A few people who are near the team but not under the agreement have let out small amounts of information and all of it so far is positive.

Downix himself said something recently on Reply #18684. Someone was explaining how the deal was likely progressing and Downix said
^
^
^
^
THIS.

Since he was/is/may be under a non-disclosure agreement he cannot confirm nor deny - Read the reply and you will see it is indeed still gong on - just Soon(TM)

so thats the good news after almost 2 years?  Whispers?  This deal will take longer then Duke Nukem forever if it ever gets done.

[Rejolt]

so thats the good news after almost 2 years?  Whispers?  This deal will take longer then Duke Nukem forever if it ever gets done.

If the goal is to play CoX Forever... A 3 or 4 year gap in there is nothing.

[Surelle]

so thats the good news after almost 2 years?  Whispers?  This deal will take longer then Duke Nukem forever if it ever gets done.

Well yeah, but at least we know this game is a lot better.   :D

[LaughingAlex]

so thats the good news after almost 2 years?  Whispers?  This deal will take longer then Duke Nukem forever if it ever gets done.

The other difference not mentioned, Duke Nukem Forever was a litteral run-away project, there is only so much the team can ask for because there is only so much to aquire.  Duke Nukem Forever didn't have any limits on what the studio could use for game engines, if the game hadn't come out by now they'd be trying to transition to UE4 by now and still forgot to get rid of UE1 textures.

The CoH game and IP are not going to change as the team negotiates.

[HEATSTROKE]

If the goal is to play CoX Forever... A 3 or 4 year gap in there is nothing.

agreed

[Mistress Bloodwrath]

I'm going to continue assuming the worst and allow myself to be pleasantly surprised if anything good happens. I refuse to get my hopes up and wind up disappointed.

[brothermutant]

Storm's damage powers (Tornado & L Storm), with a high recharge build, do about 100 DPS long-term (after factoring in for an assumed 50% resistance on the AV, and for -Resist from Freezing Rain). Consider that a power that shuts off the AV's Regen completely does about 95 DPS (and that there are very few sets that put out that high -Regen on a permanent basis), and you see that Storm's Damage is better than the -Regen of just about every other anti-AV set except for Psychic Assault, Traps, and maybe Mental Manipulation. Then, its -Resist power (Freezing Rain) is one of the better ones.

Good way to think about it. And thanks for the technical breakdown of the "why" storm rocks. Will definitely be using it in conjunction with MM and Troller builds (love that the tornado takes pet IO sets in it). And I agree on Freezing Rain...it def rocks. I slap that down every mob I can.

[HEATSTROKE]

Thank You for taking the time to respond.I am making builds that focus on recharge,a few with Def soft cap and a few with
concept reasons.Not only are there so many different choices with each AT(I think Defenders had like over 50 something
combo's)how you play,power picks and how you slotted them made huge play style differences.Testing in Mid's is great but
hearing personal play experience is hard to beat.

KEEP BUILDING!!!!