New efforts!

[Codewalker]

Some of the moons of Saturn or Jupiter may be able to be landed on, but I doubt it.  Mars is our only good chance for colonization within the solar system.

Getting to them is relatively easy if you're patient, and landing on them is probably doable (though it would take something bigger than we've ever launched or assembled in orbit due to the amount of propellant needed). The biggest issue you'll have is the inhospitable climates, not to mention the huge amount of radiation due to Jupiter's intense magnetic field trapping particles.

Of course radiation shielding is something that will need to be solved anyway for any kind of long interplanetary or interstellar journeys to be possible.

[Whatelse73]

Neil Tyson is fond of pointing out that any resource they would want could be found in abundance on their way here - with no conflict required to get it.

I've always thought the more likely scenario for an alien invasion would be a religious compulsion to impose their belief system on other intelligent beings.

I'm thinking Neil Tyson's arrogance about scientists (if we can do something and get the same results after repeated attempts, that's a fact!  that's all we do!) might be what keeps them away.  (In fact, scientists are humans just like everyone else and have manipulated "facts" to their own end consistently throughout history)

However, in regards to the aliens from ID4, there is one resource in this whole solar system that no other planet has.  A work force.  While they killed a large portion of the populace, it would be entirely reasonable that they take a billion humans to perform manual labor for them.  A work force that could be used to strip the planet of it's resources, then taken to another planet to strip that planet, and so on.  Or, even be shipped back to a home planet to build those fancy ships they fly around in, whether it was originally their technology or not.

[Felderburg]

Maybe aliens just like English accents?

Humans certainly do: http://www.timeout.com/dating-2015/

Just because a certain percentage of humans are completely insane, doesn't mean alien's [sic] will be.  If anything, they'll be advanced enough to not still be stuck in the religion trap.

:o

[Drauger9]

Just because a certain percentage of humans are completely insane, doesn't mean alien's will be.  If anything, they'll be advanced enough to not still be stuck in the religion trap.

Why do people equate intelligence with atheism? I'm not saying you specifically, it was just your comment. That made me want to pose the question, as I've gotten the notion. That people now days view atheism as a sign of intelligence.

Surely there are respected modern day scholars who are also religious? Are they stuck in a trap?

What if Aliens did show up and they was religious? Would they be ignored or not given equal credibility because of that? Would they still be considered Advanced intelligence?

[Power Arc X]

Everyone  always  seems to forget  about  all that radiation  coming  from the gas giants. It will  kill anyone  trying  to visit  them 3-4 months  before even  reaching  their destination. Glad  Codewalker  mentioned  that. Was curious  when someone  was going to point  that out.

[lotus]

I hope they don't take too long. The wait itself will make some people lose interest that heard the news. Why it was probably better just to hear nothing at all. This isn't even taking into account the people that already lost interest even before the news because too much time has passed. I hope they get a really good deal because it probably will not be until next year until we even hear that NcSoft has budged at all.

[FloatingFatMan]

Why do people equate intelligence with atheism? I'm not saying you specifically, it was just your comment. That made me want to pose the question, as I've gotten the notion. That people now days view atheism as a sign of intelligence.

Surely there are respected modern day scholars who are also religious? Are they stuck in a trap?

What if Aliens did show up and they was religious? Would they be ignored or not given equal credibility because of that? Would they still be considered Advanced intelligence?

I was referring to those who would use violence to spread religion as the insane ones.  One would presume religious aliens are sufficiently advanced that they've escaped the trap of religion spread by the sword and have reached a more enlightened "This is what we believe, but you don't have to" stage.

As for intelligence equating atheism... Well, personally I would call anyone who requires actual proof of a thing to be smarter than someone who believes stories without proof.

[Drauger9]

I was referring to those who would use violence to spread religion as the insane ones.  One would presume religious aliens are sufficiently advanced that they've escaped the trap of religion spread by the sword and have reached a more enlightened "This is what we believe, but you don't have to" stage.

Ah, as I said. It wasn't you specifically that I was talking about. It was just the statement that brought about the question.

It seems everywhere I look now. People are acting like atheism is the mark of intelligence. Of course maybe it's always been there and I'm only noticing it more recently. Or I'm giving it to much attention...


Sorry I'm rambling I've only had 3 hours of sleep. LOL!

[JanessaVR]

Some of the moons of Saturn or Jupiter may be able to be landed on, but I doubt it.  Mars is our only good chance for colonization within the solar system.

Also a quote to remember from Season 1 of Babylon 5:
"Ask ten different scientists about the environment, population control, genetics and you'll get ten different answers, but there's one thing every scientist on the planet agrees on. Whether it happens in a hundred years or a thousand years or a million years, eventually our Sun will grow cold and go out. When that happens, it won't just take us. It'll take Marilyn Monroe and Lao-Tzu, Einstein, Morobuto, Buddy Holly, Aristophanes .. and all of this .. all of this was for nothing unless we go to the stars." "

I quite agree about the need to get some decent portion of human civilization off this rock, but personally, I'm thinking "Belter" - I don't see the reason a space-faring civilization should be tied down to gravity wells.  Admittedly, I'm a transhumanist as well, so I don't have a problem with the idea of adapting our bodies to living in space - the current human form is unbelievably frail.

[Waffles]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYxtfwMTYjI

[JanessaVR]

However, in regards to the aliens from ID4, there is one resource in this whole solar system that no other planet has.  A work force.  While they killed a large portion of the populace, it would be entirely reasonable that they take a billion humans to perform manual labor for them.  A work force that could be used to strip the planet of it's resources, then taken to another planet to strip that planet, and so on.  Or, even be shipped back to a home planet to build those fancy ships they fly around in, whether it was originally their technology or not.

They would have no need for such a primitive concept as a "work force" if they're able to construct ships capable of interstellar flight - any civilization that has progressed that far has also progressed long past the need of any manual labor.  It would be grossly inefficient compared to nano-assembly.

And again, as has been pointed here, there's no reason for them to bother coming down Earth's gravity well when could just strip the asteroid belt, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, with far greater ease.

[Noyjitat]

I was referring to those who would use violence to spread religion as the insane ones.  One would presume religious aliens are sufficiently advanced that they've escaped the trap of religion spread by the sword and have reached a more enlightened "This is what we believe, but you don't have to" stage.

As for intelligence equating atheism... Well, personally I would call anyone who requires actual proof of a thing to be smarter than someone who believes stories without proof.

I find it unintelligent to live without having something bigger than yourself to believe in. And I think that's honestly what's wrong with the modern day world... So few believe in anything other than themselves, greed or things they can see or easily prove with science. However I can accept others for not having beliefs so long as they don't push or pressure others into not having beliefs.

Sadly some religions such as the recent surge of these Evil Islamic Terrorists (and other religions out killing and hurting people in the name of their religions) has resulted in turning more people away from having a belief and shunning those that do. Hopefully crap like this becomes less common soon... Disclaimer: Yes I know not all Muslims are this way.

People have grown to accept people on sexual preference (gay, straight, bi, etc)  and hopefully one day people will accept each other for beliefs.

[Kaos Arcanna]

They would have no need for such a primitive concept as a "work force" if they're able to construct ships capable of interstellar flight - any civilization that has progressed that far has also progressed long past the need of any manual labor.  It would be grossly inefficient compared to nano-assembly.

And again, as has been pointed here, there's no reason for them to bother coming down Earth's gravity well when could just strip the asteroid belt, and the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, with far greater ease.

I don't think the capacity for interstellar flight necessarily indicates they are masters of all other technologies that we can currently envision.

Maybe worlds that are capable of supporting life are much rarer than current theory suggests (we have yet to find another world that we KNOW has other life on it) and they have biological or philosophical reasons that prevent them from raising their young in space. Maybe their religion involves the sacrifice of sentient beings and they use other species for that rather than their own. Maybe their magic FTL drives are powered by human souls. :D

Or maybe they have discovered medical or industrial applications for the biological resources of our planet. Heck, maybe they have use for coal or petroleum products.

[JanessaVR]

I don't think the capacity for interstellar flight necessarily indicates they are masters of all other technologies that we can currently envision.

Maybe worlds that are capable of supporting life are much rarer than current theory suggests (we have yet to find another world that we KNOW has other life on it) and they have biological or philosophical reasons that prevent them from raising their young in space. Maybe their religion involves the sacrifice of sentient beings and they use other species for that rather than their own. Maybe their magic FTL drives are powered by human souls. :D

Or maybe they have discovered medical or industrial applications for the biological resources of our planet. Heck, maybe they have use for coal or petroleum products.

Actually, looking at our current technological development, we're likely to master nanotechnology before FTL travel (if we ever do manage to crack FTL).  Generational/sleeper ships might end up being the only way to reach other star systems, though I hope not.  And again, there are no useful natural resources here they couldn't get elsewhere for less effort.  If they actually found some value in our world's biology, a library of cell samples would give them all the blueprints they need to build more - any "mass harvesting" is hugely wasted effort.

[Arcana]

seriously we've never tried to leave our solar system on a manned expedition. That would probably set-off alien red alerts if there are any aliens. "Oh no! the Humans!! they are leaving their solar system heading to the rest of the universe Quick we need to do something!" *force-fields erected around our solar system*

That would be like the Chinese government setting up a motion sensor outside a crib in New Jersey, designed to notify them if the infant inside became an invasion threat.

[Power Arc X]

Well scientists  found Kepler- 18f  within the last 3 weeks. Probably  has the best chance at finding  life there but now is the easy part, getting  there. Lol

[Kaos Arcanna]

Actually, looking at our current technological development, we're likely to master nanotechnology before FTL travel (if we ever do manage to crack FTL).  Generational/sleeper ships might end up being the only way to reach other star systems, though I hope not.  And again, there are no useful natural resources here they couldn't get elsewhere for less effort.  If they actually found some value in our world's biology, a library of cell samples would give them all the blueprints they need to build more - any "mass harvesting" is hugely wasted effort.

Where are you going to find coal or petroleum except on a world that has hosted life?

And we had atomic bombs well before we had anything approaching genetic engineering so it's not inconceivable a spacefaring race might not be able to clone everything they need from a few cells.  Or even if they COULD, they might not choose to do so.

Though I have to admit I am honestly thinking at this point we are ultimately going to find FTL travel to be impossible. And if other sentient life forms exist,  I am betting they are either too far away for meaningful contact or manage to destroy themselves (if only by environmental mismanagement) well before reaching the ability to communicate over interstellar distances.

[Arcana]

The mere fact that all of those various people often, regularly, and repeatedly come into conflict with one another over their theories, and that things that were previously believed to be true (and taught in schools) but are now no longer so also speaks to this.

History (much like all other forms of human knowledge) is an ever evolving, ever changing advancement of what we know, and test, and demonstrate to be true with the resources we have available. It is never this monolithic "right or wrong" that many of the fringe and conspiracy theorists and others often portray it as in an effort to promote their own ideas at the expense of doing their own evidentiary research.

Its worth noting that its not about trusting scientific theories or scientists in particular.  Its about trusting the process which has historically been shown to be incredibly powerful *in spite* of bad scientific theories and poor errant scientists.  With all of the mistakes, misunderstandings, incomplete notions, unethical behavior, and just plain stupidity that always follows human beings around in all of their endeavors, Science (and its Applied cousin Technology) has gone from people thinking the Sun was a bowl of fire pulled across the sky by invisible goats to microwave dinners and GPS in a very short amount of time.  The system is great not because its always right, Science is great because on long enough timescales it and it alone overcomes the failings of stupid, lazy, criminal humans.

And that's why I feel strongly about people calling Science "guessing."  Science is not guessing: its the polar opposite of guessing.  Science is the thing that made us not need to rely on gut feelings and random guesses.  And modern Science is just the most recent and most refined version of a process that goes back to when humans were figuring out the best way to make round rocks into pointy rocks and teaching their kids how to not hit their thumbs when making the pointy rocks.  The first guy to make a pointy rock was a guesser.  The first guy to show everyone else how to make the pointy rock was a teacher.  The first guy to try different ways to make the pointy rock based on all the other ways everyone else was making the pointy rock to see which one came out the most pointy was the first scientist.  We owe that guy basically everything.

(That's a metaphor, not a statement about the chronology of paleolithic technology).

[Arcana]

Actually, looking at our current technological development, we're likely to master nanotechnology before FTL travel (if we ever do manage to crack FTL).  Generational/sleeper ships might end up being the only way to reach other star systems, though I hope not.  And again, there are no useful natural resources here they couldn't get elsewhere for less effort.  If they actually found some value in our world's biology, a library of cell samples would give them all the blueprints they need to build more - any "mass harvesting" is hugely wasted effort.

If I had to place my bets, I would say the interstellar technology humanity will master first will be robotic exploration and seeding technology.  Basically, the technology to create robotic exploration craft that can explore nearby solar systems, and if they meet suitable criteria set up automated factories that could build bases of operations that could live off the land, explore the planet and its solar system, and eventually build next generation explorers to take the next hop, all while reporting back to Earth.

If we wanted humans to go, I think its more likely we develop ways to clone people at the destination.  I think the hardest technology and the one most likely to appear last would be the one where person X actually on Earth gets to the destination themselves in some physical form, barring a radical advance in interstellar propulsion technology.

[Ironwolf]

Where are you going to find coal or petroleum except on a world that has hosted life?

And we had atomic bombs well before we had anything approaching genetic engineering so it's not inconceivable a spacefaring race might not be able to clone everything they need from a few cells.  Or even if they COULD, they might not choose to do so.

Though I have to admit I am honestly thinking at this point we are ultimately going to find FTL travel to be impossible. And if other sentient life forms exist,  I am betting they are either too far away for meaningful contact or manage to destroy themselves (if only by environmental mismanagement) well before reaching the ability to communicate over interstellar distances.

I know we call it "fossil" fuel but they are rethinking that - some places that had all of the oil removed are once again full! It is possible that oil is created in a different process - in the near future it will be all about hydrogen anyways:

http://cellaenergy.com/