Thoughts on Hail Mary, one year later

[downix]

That's a shame. Guess we'll just throw out the pitch Quinch has been working on, then... :-)

Keep up the pressure!

[JanessaVR]

That's a shame. Guess we'll just throw out the pitch Quinch has been working on, then... :-)

If you're still trying, I won't say that's a bad thing (at all), but in a year, we've heard not one thing about about the slightest response to our efforts, and VV, who was a big part of that as I recall, is gone and at this point probably not coming back.  When there's a total lack of a pulse it's a bit difficult to keep hoping the patient is still alive; to the best of my knowledge neither Disney nor Google even noticed all of our efforts.  Perhaps one of the smaller studios will bother to speak to us, one of these years, but will they have pockets deep enough to try to pry the game from NCSoft's bony grasp?

At this point, I'm just trying to be realistic - there seems to have been absolutely zero returns here so far.  At present, City of Titans and SCoRE are the only projects that seem to be actually making progress and showing returns.

[JaguarX]

If you're still trying, I won't say that's a bad thing (at all), but in a year, we've heard not one thing about about the slightest response to our efforts, and VV, who was a big part of that as I recall, is gone and at this point probably not coming back.  When there's a total lack of a pulse it's a bit difficult to keep hoping the patient is still alive; to the best of my knowledge neither Disney nor Google even noticed all of our efforts.  Perhaps one of the smaller studios will bother to speak to us, one of these years, but would they have pockets deep enough to try to pry the game from NCSoft's bony grasp?

At this point, I'm just trying to be realistic - there seems to have been absolutely zero returns here so far.

Yeah even after nearly a year, even in the slowest turtle based prior to internet communication and telephone business, after a few months, there is usually at least the slightest expression of interest or not and by year they decided usually if they will pursue or not. Here after a year, from what it seems, there haven't even been word on progress of the first step.

Yes the process itself takes a while but usually expression of interest faster than that. Look, within a few months, according those "inside sources" They went from putting together a proposal to almost needing a few last signatures in a business deal within a matter of a couple of months. Unless they knew about the close down plan for at least a year prior (but that is another issues another time). And now it's expected to believe that within a year, major corporation that supposedly people have inside information to the person that make those decisions on buying stuff in the name of Google and Disney, cant decide whether or not they are even interested or not within a year time, the first step?  You know, the way it looks, it looks like they are not interested or the proposal didn't get  to the right people and that insider information stuff was a load of crap. Knowing someone that work for google or Disney doesn't mean insider information. That mean people know someone that work for google or Disney. Do they actually know the guy the person or persons, directly face to face by name friendly basis of the guy that decides what to buy or not?

[Ironwolf]

Let me try and understand where you are coming from, you believe that if we a non-official bunch of players request a company to look at a game now closed and explain that it was profitable and all with very little advertising ever done - that they will find the desire to contact us to tell us what plans they are making?

Why would they contact us? They MIGHT say thank you for the interest in our company and we hope you continue to enjoy our games. That is all I would expect. Businesses don't go public until the deal is over. I have put a timeline that was generous in how long it takes to get things done in a big company.

Where I work we laid out the plans to upgrade all local servers 18 months ago. Then 8 months later HP shipped all the hardware out (several hundred servers). I recieved my server and 2 months later was told to install it and that the load would follow shortly. I installed the server in the rack and 30 days later I got the load instructions. I loaded it and now have been waiting a week for the remote checkout and the pushing of the supplemental software (like the UPS management software).

It takes TIME. They don't move quickly and I am sorry that your experience is apparently as a member of the public and not as a company tech. Buying the game after researching what hardware and bandwidth would be required to host it and all other due diligence required. These are not fly-by-night companies that have been contacted but companies selected because of their success.

1. Legal would have to research the case settlement with Marvel and possibly get permission for the details to be given.
2. Hardware would have to reseach server farm requirements and bandwidth needed.
3. server software recommended and other running costs. (Electricity, SANand what else is needed.

I can think of a huge list of stuff I would do if I won the lottery and put the game back in service. Let's say I get a windfall and had $100 million to get the game going. I can't see how I could get it up in less than 4-6 months and do it right. I just think the 12 month time period is not seriously an issue.

[JanessaVR]

I hear that, but if we hear nothing and know nothing, we have no idea if they're completely ignoring us or not.  In the absence of any information to the contrary, I don't see how we could conclude they're doing anything about it, or even if the pitches and our mountains of letters are still buried the mailroom.

[JaguarX]

Let me try and understand where you are coming from, you believe that if we a non-official bunch of players request a company to look at a game now closed and explain that it was profitable and all with very little advertising ever done - that they will find the desire to contact us to tell us what plans they are making?

Why would they contact us? They MIGHT say thank you for the interest in our company and we hope you continue to enjoy our games. That is all I would expect. Businesses don't go public until the deal is over. I have put a timeline that was generous in how long it takes to get things done in a big company.

Where I work we laid out the plans to upgrade all local servers 18 months ago. Then 8 months later HP shipped all the hardware out (several hundred servers). I recieved my server and 2 months later was told to install it and that the load would follow shortly. I installed the server in the rack and 30 days later I got the load instructions. I loaded it and now have been waiting a week for the remote checkout and the pushing of the supplemental software (like the UPS management software).

It takes TIME. They don't move quickly and I am sorry that your experience is apparently as a member of the public and not as a company tech. Buying the game after researching what hardware and bandwidth would be required to host it and all other due diligence required. These are not fly-by-night companies that have been contacted but companies selected because of their success.

1. Legal would have to research the case settlement with Marvel and possibly get permission for the details to be given.
2. Hardware would have to reseach server farm requirements and bandwidth needed.
3. server software recommended and other running costs. (Electricity, SANand what else is needed.

I can think of a huge list of stuff I would do if I won the lottery and put the game back in service. Let's say I get a windfall and had $100 million to get the game going. I can't see how I could get it up in less than 4-6 months and do it right. I just think the 12 month time period is not seriously an issue.

No when a group of non-official people claim they have inside information on the inner workings of a major corporation after a year there would be enough of an update without giving up "Legal infor." and yet cant even answer the simple question of "Are they still going for it or not" or what is going on. 


And you laid out a time line of stuff that happened. Those could be potential updates, if someone actually had inside information like they said they did. Which more and more it seems dubious beyond the insider being a normal employee for the company. And Even in the examples you used, within 12 months stuff happened. It didn't take them 12 months to decide whether or not they wanted to pursue the matter or not. And yeah I find it interesting that it's taking 12 months about before the first step is even updated on, in your time line averaged about 3-4 months, while the supposed bid to buy it originally took only a few months from start to finish according to the same people with insider information (what company don't they have insider information on :p) down to the last signature before it kinked up. Now, both were going for the same goal, except one managed to get that far in less than three or four months while the other in after nearly 12 months not even an update of whether or not they are looking into putting in an offer or not. That don't sound fishy about that information? And no, I may not be part of tech company but that doesn't mean I have not a slightest clue of how business work and would appreciate it if you and other stop approaching people that don't have "inside information as such" We are not complete idiots. Just like MWM never made an MMO before but that doesn't mean they don't know stuff about how to make one.

But I think in hindsight, I think it probably was best instead of bragging about how they have inside info and such and such and who they know, it was best that they kept quiet until they had something substantial they could share because right now, from the days of bragging about who they knew in Disney, and Google and how they had inside track to the guy who buys things for that company, it looks more and more like a whole load of crap fed to the public to get the hopes up and that they really had not much insider information than the average bloke here. They just happen to know someone that worked at Disney and Google. And so do I, well I don't know anyone that work for Google yet.

In a nutshell there was promise to deliver updates on this situation frequently, and after 12 months they failed to deliver. So of course someone will question it. If they couldn't give out any information or updates or didn't have that power then they should have left it alone instead of bragging is they were buddy buddy with the head guys and would be feeding information to the rest.

[Segev]

Eh, I don't think they were bragging, so much as they had a plan and needed help to enact it. Specifically, the letter campaign. They explained why they thought they had reason to believe it could work.

People do run out of time. Updates would be nice; not arguing there. You may even have a point about them having something of a responsibility to provide them more frequently. But I do think characterizing their behavior as "bragging" is unfair.

I'm not saying I agree with the rest of your position, but I don't out-and-out disagree, either. Just objecting to characterizing the initial request for help's explanation as boastful or otherwise an ego-trip.

[JaguarX]

Eh, I don't think they were bragging, so much as they had a plan and needed help to enact it. Specifically, the letter campaign. They explained why they thought they had reason to believe it could work.

People do run out of time. Updates would be nice; not arguing there. You may even have a point about them having something of a responsibility to provide them more frequently. But I do think characterizing their behavior as "bragging" is unfair.

I'm not saying I agree with the rest of your position, but I don't out-and-out disagree, either. Just objecting to characterizing the initial request for help's explanation as boastful or otherwise an ego-trip.

To me it seemed like bragging because at the time anytime someone had question nor doubt, the usual reply was "Well we have inside information and you don't." type answers. The first couple of times, ok, we get ya. After a while it comes off as bragging. As if they never let anyone forget that they have inside information. It seems letting people know they had inside information was more important that the information of what's going on. Which comes off as an ego trip of "we know people and nobody else could possibly know someone".

And through out I mostly stayed quiet about it, but eventually it came to a point when every time someone brought up the subject of what's going on, the first thing said is "They or we have inside information." After a while I started to question, if they had so much inside information then why do they not know anything or keeping their word on keeping people updated. Which then looked like the entire thing was merely a way to brag that they knew insiders and wanted everyone else to know but couldn't produce anything or information of substance because it was all for an ego trip.

That is how it came off to me. I think maybe they should have focused on less that they knew someone that knew someone and focused more on the task at hand.

Because I'm sure most people know someone in various places. I know people that do gov contracts. The yguy that decides yeah or nay what equipment goes into the hospital the guy that control the budget for the electrical water and gas system. What does that mean? I'm better than everyone? No. I don't think so. And If I said that I can push an agenda to those folks, keep watching for updates and a year go by with not much updates, then it's natural for people to starting asking. What happened and or did I really know the people that I said I knew. I could keep replying like they did "I know the water guy so sit down and wait." but I don't think it would one single bit die down the doubt and only serves as if I'm using the connection as personal ego stroking and not really caring about the task at hand.

[InOnePiece]

At present, City of Titans and SCoRE are the only projects that seem to be actually making progress and showing returns.

I missed something... And honestly searched and googled for it first... What's SCoRE?

[JaguarX]

I missed something... And honestly searched and googled for it first... What's SCoRE?

It's that secret private server thing. Hell, that thing is secret and we get more bits and pieces of progress or what's going on and whether or not they are still at it than the supposed public TFHM thing. And without the "I know someone on the inside crap. and Without even knowing who exactly is working on it.  Go figure.

[JanessaVR]

I missed something... And honestly searched and googled for it first... What's SCoRE?

Our reverse-engineering team - the Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers.  I came up with the name, TonyV turned it into an acronym and made it the official title of the team.  They're the ones slowly re-creating CoH from scratch, with an end-goal of giving us private servers for a re-made CoH.

[InOnePiece]

Our reverse-engineering team - the Secret Cabal of Reverse Engineers.  I came up with the name, TonyV turned it into an acronym and made the official title of the team.  They're the ones slowly re-creating CoH from scratch, with an end-goal of giving us private servers for a re-made CoH.

Otherwise known as my new best friends. thanks, I thought it may have been something like that, but also wasn't sure if it was a spiritual successor project I hadn't heard about yet.

[healix]

You go, SCoRE!!!

[Rae]

Knowing someone that work for google or Disney doesn't mean insider information. That mean people know someone that work for google or Disney. Do they actually know the guy the person or persons, directly face to face by name friendly basis of the guy that decides what to buy or not?

We didn't even know anyone at Disney. That pitch was sent blind.

For Google, a contact of Mercedes asked her to forward the pitch to him.  That man was Jeson Patel, and you can read about him here:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/small-business/sb-growth/success-stories/small-startup-hits-google-paydirt/article591719/?page=all

The only person who knew Mr Patel personally would be Mercedes' contact. This was explained in this FAQ:

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8542.0.html

No when a group of non-official people claim they have inside information on the inner workings of a major corporation after a year there would be enough of an update without giving up "Legal infor."

We had input on pitch from a former member of Paragon Studios. I cannot break their trust in us, and we were given information strictly on the basis we did not say who it had came from, however it was a senior member of staff there. It was also checked over by at least three members of staff of Paragon Studios to make sure the information featured in the pitch was correct.

We never claimed to have inside information on the inner workings of a major corporation.

That is how it came off to me. I think maybe they should have focused on less that they knew someone that knew someone and focused more on the task at hand.

Mercedes, Ammon, Quinch and I spent weeks working on the original pitch - hours of time that we could have spent actually playing a game that we knew was going to close. Mercedes worked on it to the point that she was scrabbling to meet a deadline for a novel. With all due respect, we could not have been more focused on that pitch.

When it came to the pitch to Google, as you rightfully point out, Mercedes had left these boards, and we were unable to get hold of Ammon. Quinch was working on the pitch as he relocated to an entirely different country.  As with the Google pitch, it was being written around real lives - a demanding day job and The Phoenix Project in my case, and a relocation for Quinch.

Hell, that thing is secret and we get more bits and pieces of progress or what's going on and whether or not they are still at it than the supposed public TFHM thing. And without the "I know someone on the inside crap. and Without even knowing who exactly is working on it.  Go figure.

Supposedly public? TFHM isn't a.. I don't even know what to say here. It's not a TV show, or a magazine or a..mayor. It's (currently) two people sending out information to try talk people into trying to buy something we don't own, working on it around real-world commitments.

If we had updates, we would give them to you. Do you really think for a moment that if we hadn't heard from Google or Disney, we wouldn't have told people?

We do what we can to get the pitch out and make sure it's tailored to the company it's going to. We do what we can to make sure there's a show of support for City of Heroes. We're not in a position where we can force people to buy, or even read the pitch. And if they DO read the pitch and they ARE interested, and they do approach NC Soft, I can't make NC Soft sell, either.

All any of us wanted to do was to find a new home for City of Heroes, so you guys could go home again.  I'm sorry you felt the whole thing is an ego trip. And honestly, if that's how it's being perceived there's not really much point, is there?

Sorry, TFHM, if you're actually here to read this, but you guys never really needed my help, anyway.

If I was a teenager right about now, I'd be flouncing out and slamming a door.  Internet strops are so unbecoming.

Agge, Tony,. Feel free to delete this post if you like. You guys rock.

[TonyV]

[JaguarX]

If we had updates, we would give them to you. Do you really think for a moment that if we hadn't heard from Google or Disney, we wouldn't have told people?

Actually you havent been forth coming with even that information or much information besides you know people and how hard you worked on it and climb mountains both ways between real ife and usual mumbo jumble.

--snip--
I've edited out some more personal attacks and a wall of criticism text. --TonyV

[TonyV]

Actually you havent been forth coming with even that information or much information besides you know people and how hard you worked on it and climb mountains both ways between real ife and usual mumbo jumble.

Seriously, dude, enough.  If you think you can do better, then do better.  Otherwise, knock it off.  I'm not asking this time.

[Codewalker]

Don't worry about it, Rae. It's a few people who like to write walls of text that are complaining and going on and on about it. Most of us know that you're doing / have done everything humanly possible. I feel that it was made quite clear in the initial TFHM discussion and announcements that

• It's a huge long shot and nobody should expect it to be successful (but we have to try anyway).  Hence, you know, the name.
  
  
• Due to how these kinds of companies work, it might be a long time before we hear anything, if ever. It's unlikely they would contact any of the TFHM members directly unless they wanted some additional information or clarification before trying to contact NCSoft.

[Triplash]

*emails Rae hugs and cookies*

I still think you're awesome. Team Wildcard is awesome. The pair of you still active with Team Wildcard is doubly awesome, for sticking it out this long even through such difficulties.

The City of Titans team is charting ridiculous levels of awesome, for all the sheer coolness I'm seeing lately.

The Heroes and Villains team are awesome, and the Valiance Online team are awesome, and they're both going to blow the roof off with sheer coolness once they're ready to start showing things off.

And the SCoRE team, well shoot, they've got the coolest gig of all... they get to rebuild a secret underground tunnel to the place we all know is amazing. There's no guessing whether their success is something I'd want to see... I know it for a fact. I know that game's awesomeness from my own memory. So the Rebel Alliance finding making a back door past the Death Star? Yeah, that's pretty badass.

When the day comes that one of these teams crosses their finish line, I'm going to be really, really, really, REALLY glad they didn't give up. They have tasks I can't take on personally - not "don't want to", but can't. I have neither the skills to make the attempt, nor the time to learn them. So if all I can do is support those who can... why on Earth would I ever choose to badmouth them instead???

It makes absolutely no logical sense to want something, and then endlessly discourage the only people who are trying to make it happen. Positivity is a much better way to live your life. Not only is it a lot more helpful in getting what you want, but you're far happier while you're waiting.

[TonyV]