City of Titans (The Phoenix Project) Kickstarter

[Stratoburst]

Honestly - and I know it's not a popular opinion around here - I don't think NCSoft did anything immoral or even unethical. I think they made a stupid business decision

On one hand, I agree with you.  They didn't make an immoral or unethical decision.

On the other hand, I want Plan Z to succeed way beyond anyone's imagination, and then shove it up NCSoft's backside so far it tickles their tonsils.

[JaguarX]

On one hand, I agree with you.  They didn't make an immoral or unethical decision.

On the other hand, I want Plan Z to succeed way beyond anyone's imagination, and then shove it up NCSoft's backside so far it tickles their tonsils.

Yup.

I don't share the hellfire brimstone "REPENT!" feelings towards NCSOFT that is common around here but I want all three games to succeed to the point that it pales any success of any game they ever made, or at least half of them.

Dream- I go to Walmart one day and see the projects next to the likes of WoW and Sims. So successful everyone know the games and all done without corporate backing while making the industry sweat and know these games are a force to reckoned with.

[Tahquitz]

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/missingworldsmedia/the-phoenix-project-city-of-titans/


If this campaign hits around 700K - 1 Million and sticks to it on November 4th that should still be pretty awesome.  Even if it doesn't look like it now as the pledges slow down after the initial funding goal, remember that most projects get a significant push around the end from last-minute backers looking to get involved before it's too late.

[Segev]

On one hand, I agree with you.  They didn't make an immoral or unethical decision.

On the other hand, I want Plan Z to succeed way beyond anyone's imagination, and then shove it up NCSoft's backside so far it tickles their tonsils.

Oh, we definitely are with you on succeeding spectacularly. We intend to do all we can to make that happen! If we do, it will be a major victory for consumers of the products developed by the gaming industry, as we have a new and customer-focused model for our business. (When I say "new," I really mean "actually quite old, since most successful businesses in established industries started this way.") I don't really care about "shoving it up NCSoft's backside," but I will in no way fault anybody who wants to point out that this is the opportunity NCSoft missed, when we surpass them.

[srmalloy]

... but it is something I agree with TonyV on: if we can pull this off, if we can get big, we can demonstrate that there is a better, stronger business model than the one that's been followed, and that it's centered on focus on the customer.

And not only the business model, but the playstyle -- breaking out of the 'you are your gear', 'three minions = 1 player', and 'group-only content and PvP are the core part of long-term play' memes of MMO design. It probably won't be possible to break the 'sack of HP' meme, though; it's a lot of work to design end-boss encounters for group content that are more than just a slugfest without falling into the trap of 'you must do each of these things perfectly and in the right order and at the right time', where one mistake means failure.

[JWBullfrog]

It probably won't be possible to break the 'sack of HP' meme, though;

Ok, I admit I kind of grew up on this. In the pen and paper days, that was what defined a Boss. Bigger, stronger, lots more HP. It was almost a given that the only way to defeat them was to be able to keep hammering away at them until they dropped.  If you accept the old idea that HP=ability to fight, rather than HP=life, then it makes a bit more sense.

[Sailboat]

the trap of 'you must do each of these things perfectly and in the right order and at the right time', where one mistake means failure.

Gah.  Been dabbling in The Secret World.  that game does a great job with making memorable NPCs, but the "dungeon" quests are multiple stages, each stage being an elaborate sequence of specific moves that you have to discover by long trial-and-error (or read and memorize a guide somebody else wrote) and any one player making a mistake in any of those moves -- some of which are twitchy fast dodges -- locks that player out of the dungeon until ALL players die and respawn.  Sometimes the stage can be completed with one or two players down, but often one player making a momentary mistake dooms the stage and the team must all die and try again.

It does NOT make one feel super-powered.

[saipaman]

... I don't think NCSoft did anything immoral or even unethical. I think they made a stupid business decision...

It was definitely a stupid business decision from our perspective, but I'm sure it makes more sense when viewed in an emotional and political context to which we have no access since we aren't NCSoft insiders.

That said, I reserve the right to never give them my money again.

[Floride]

[healix]

[MWRuger]

[downix]

The issue in any business withholding a service or a product is that the demand is not for that company, but for the product or service to fill that demand. By withholding, instead of killing the market, it encourages others to fill that demand. You find numerous examples of this across history. Such a move even led to the rise of a small Seattle based company called Microsoft.

NCSoft shuttered the game which filled a niche in the market, one not serviced by other products. The demand remains for a game of this type. We are only working to fill, and potentially grow, that niche.

[Segev]

The issue in any business withholding a service or a product is that the demand is not for that company, but for the product or service to fill that demand. By withholding, instead of killing the market, it encourages others to fill that demand. You find numerous examples of this across history. Such a move even led to the rise of a small Seattle based company called Microsoft.

NCSoft shuttered the game which filled a niche in the market, one not serviced by other products. The demand remains for a game of this type. We are only working to fill, and potentially grow, that niche.

This is it, exactly.

This, ultimately, is why businesses exist. They're merely ways of organizing service and goods providers and bringing them together with consumers of their respective services and goods. The money - the profits pursued - is just a measure of how much demand there is for the product. (The less laudible behavior in which some engage in pursuit of profits through deception, manipulation, or outright theft - or worse, corruption of public trust and power - are not actually "business," despite what both apologists for that kind of behavior and those who want to vilify business-as-a-concept will claim.)


*cough*

Sorry. Climbing down off my soap box...

Downix has it exactly right: you can stop providing a service, if you want, but you can't stop others from stepping in to fill the vacuum you leave behind.

[saipaman]

All that said, if NCSoft brought the game back, with my characters intact, I'd give them a second chance. 

[Tahquitz]

All that said, if NCSoft brought the game back, with my characters intact, I'd give them a second chance.

I'd hesitate.  If it was on life-support with no more development, only bugs and security fixes, I would do it.  If it was with a new development team, I'd see where they're taking things before diving in.

But this isn't going to happen.  I have no proof or evidence of this, but I can imagine the NCSoft CEO by now has ordered all the servers/hard drives brought to his office to wipe and reformat them personally for recycling as test shards for another title (pure speculation, don't cut me apart over this, please).  All I could see as a faint, remote, infinitesimally small possibility now is the IP being sold to generate cash for a game I won't bother to play.  (City of Heroes in a future Scribblenauts title?  Someday...)

[Floride]

Devil Corp has made the same call. Our board of directors unanimously voted and I...ehh, WE are severing all ties.

When CoT goes live, I think I'm gonna send NCSoft a pair of sunglasses with a card that just says, "Enjoy the sunset!"

[healix]

When CoT goes live, I think I'm gonna send NCSoft a pair of sunglasses with a card that just says, "Enjoy the sunset!"

In other words...

[Peregrine Falcon]

The kickstarter ended just a few hours ago. Total funding: $678,189!!! Congratulations!

That was quite a jump from the barely over $500k that I saw just a few days ago.

Regardless of what else happens, this level of funding shows the power of the CoH community.

[KabaI]

Damn, how did I miss out on this? I'll be contacting the parent company, to see if I can support this project. I still miss CoH, and would love to see it come back, even if its in a slightly different format.

[thunderforce]

I have no proof or evidence of this, but I can imagine the NCSoft CEO by now has ordered all the servers/hard drives brought to his office to wipe and reformat them personally for recycling as test shards for another title (pure speculation, don't cut me apart over this, please).

I can't prove it either, but - the servers are one thing, but to discard the data would be insane. The cost of keeping the per-player data - given that they were backing it up already, and it isn't changing any more - would be truly microscopic; and it might just come in handy.