Author Topic: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad  (Read 7063 times)

Golden Girl

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Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« on: September 14, 2013, 07:14:27 PM »
It looks like WB/DC might have found an unusual way to compete with Marvel's box office numbers:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/09/14/justin-bieber-to-join-ben-affleck-in-batman-vs-superman-as-robin.html

Of course, he could just be trolling...
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Night-Hawk07

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #1 on: September 14, 2013, 07:37:50 PM »
So far everything I've read says it's got something to do with Funny or Die. WB and Snyder couldn't possibly be stupid enough to put him in...unless of course he's "Jan Brady Robin" Jason Todd and we get to see a new Joker beat the $#*! out of him with a crowbar. That would be acceptable.

On another note: Batman vs. Superman has to be the lamest title ever. I'd have preferred World's Finest, honestly. It's simple and sticks with the "vague" (I guess) title names like The Dark Knight/Rises, Man of Steel, heck I'll even throw Arrow in there since he's yet to be officially called "Green Arrow".
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 07:42:54 PM by Night-Hawk07 »

Golden Girl

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2013, 07:49:36 PM »
WB and Snyder couldn't possibly be stupid enough to put him in...

Well, Man of Steel under-performed, and the don't-worry-we're-not-in-a-panic decision to throw Batman into the Man of Steel sequel wasn't met with that much excitement - especially, once his casting was revealed - so it's not totally impossible that they would look to an alternative fanbase as a kind of insurance against box office disaster.
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JaguarX

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2013, 08:17:04 PM »
yeah.

Bieber do have a following.

Or as stated this may all be a publicity stunt.

But nighthawk I just had a visual of Robin played by Bieber getting beat with a crowbar. Funny stuff.

I think more than likely if anything it probably will be a bit part if he's in the movie at all. Putting him in the movie probably would bring tickets. People that actually like Bieber would go to see him and people that don't like Bieber would go to see him to talk about his acting ability or other things. He do have that Robin sidekick look to him.

But I figured it was a matter of time. There have been trend to put music artists that have a following into films to bring in a certain group of fans for better or worse. 

Eoraptor

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2013, 01:23:44 AM »
bieber is not going to be in batmanslashficsuperman. its a troll.

although if he played jason todd and we got the joker in there, i'd support it whole heartedly  8)
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JaguarX

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2013, 01:34:16 AM »
bieber is not going to be in batmanslashficsuperman. its a troll.

although if he played jason todd and we got the joker in there, i'd support it whole heartedly  8)

yeah I figured that. Still would be funny to see him get beat by The Joker with a crowbar, even if it's scripted.

Magus Prime

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2013, 09:13:48 AM »
Well, Man of Steel under-performed, and the don't-worry-we're-not-in-a-panic decision to throw Batman into the Man of Steel sequel wasn't met with that much excitement - especially, once his casting was revealed - so it's not totally impossible that they would look to an alternative fanbase as a kind of insurance against box office disaster.

I swear, it's like you post from a parallel dimension where everything sucks.

Golden Girl

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #7 on: September 15, 2013, 07:15:51 PM »
Are you sure that you meant to quote my post? :P
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Magus Prime

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2013, 02:43:34 AM »
Yes.  Absolutely sure.  Almost everything you said in your post is the polar opposite of what I'm hearing from everyone else.  Man of Steel's domestic gross was 250 million during it's run.  By all estimates it did as well as expected.  And by all accounts, the news that Batman would be in the next installment trumped anything and everything Marvel at Comic Con.  The only thing lackluster was the announcement of Affleck being cast which even still seems to be gaining some kind of traction.  You tend to put a spin on things with the expectation to fail when clearly the reality is this franchise is a runaway train with no signs of slowing down commercially and critically.  It's like saying, "Things'll go back to normal once this whole 'internet' fad wears out its welcome."

Captain Electric

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2013, 03:01:00 AM »
I can confirm as a comic book fan (who still reads comics and still talks to other readers about comics) that Man of Steel was widely accepted and liked, and that the Batman/Superman Comic Con announcement was what everyone has been waiting to hear for many years. It was very exciting (sorry Golden Girl). No one is too happy with DC Comics these days but movie goers seem to have grasped the fact that unless it's Marvel Studios, the producer isn't going to cling very tight to source material. Even Marvel Studios makes exceptions, that's why it's specifically called the Cinematic Universe.

However, after the Ben Affleck announcement, everything Golden Girl says basically became the new reality. No one that I've talked to is very exited about it at all anymore.

Except for Ben Affleck I gue$$.

JaguarX

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2013, 03:02:22 AM »
I can confirm as a comic book fan (who still reads comics and still talks to other readers about comics) that Man of Steel was widely accepted and liked, and that the Batman/Superman Comic Con announcement was what everyone has been waiting to hear for many years. It was very exciting (sorry Golden Girl). No one is too happy with DC Comics these days but movie goers seem to have grasped the fact that unless it's Marvel Studios, the producer isn't going to cling to tight to source material.

However, after the Ben Affleck announcement, everything Golden Girl says basically became the new reality. No one that I've talked to is very exited about it at all anymore.

Except for Ben Affleck I gue$$.

basically.


But with each iteration of Batman and other comic hero movies, the bar is raised. Early on, a hero movie making back enough to pay the actors and put a little change in the studio's pocket was considered success. Now, the expectations have risen now that the gross numbers of comic movies are on the list of the top grossing films next to the likes of Titanic (1997 release. Although they made another $334 million in the 2012 re-release) James Bond series, Jurassic park,
and various Disney films.  Of course they haven't broke into the adjusted for inflation top ten, where Mr. Spielberg and James Cameron is more than one time visitors. But if one hero makes that list then the bar will be raised again.

Me personally from what I hear fro mothers, old Henry give Mr. Reeves a run for his money.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 03:14:59 AM by JaguarX »

Golden Girl

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2013, 03:14:04 AM »
Man of Steel's domestic gross was 250 million during it's run.

By all estimates it did as well as expected.[/quote]

They weren't expecting a global pop culture icon like Superman to be able to carry his movie's total past "Kung Fu Panda 2"?

Quote
And by all accounts, the news that Batman would be in the next installment trumped anything and everything Marvel at Comic Con.


Loki would disagree :P

Quote
clearly the reality is this franchise is a runaway train with no signs of slowing down commercially and critically.

56% on Rotten Tomatoes and 55% on Metacritic doesn't suggest a critical success anywhere near a runaway train - maybe a derailed one would be more accurate :P
It's collapse at the box office after such a high opening also doesn't suggest that its word of mouth was all that spectacular either.

And having failed to come anywhere near the numbers for "The Dark Knight" and "The Dark Knight Rises", WB/DC seem to have decided that the only way to make a movie that can compete with marvel is to add Batman ;)

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Captain Electric

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2013, 03:30:49 AM »
Loki would disagree :P

On this one point I kind of disagree. I wasn't there, but I saw coverage of both of those things on YouTube. Loki's crowd went wild, sure. But Superman/Batman's crowd went totally batshit crazy wild.

56% on Rotten Tomatoes and 55% on Metacritic doesn't suggest a critical success anywhere near a runaway train - maybe a derailed one would be more accurate :P

It's collapse at the box office after such a high opening also doesn't suggest that its word of mouth was all that spectacular either.

All of your other points here are kind of stinging. I guess the numbers don't lie, but I swear I'm not lying either in my post above.

And having failed to come anywhere near the numbers for "The Dark Knight" and "The Dark Knight Rises", WB/DC seem to have decided that the only way to make a movie that can compete with marvel is to add Batman ;)

This is where they are just disconnected over there in Hollywood. Every SINGLE person I've spoken to didn't just want Batman--they wanted Bale. I believe they could have been appeased by someone with chops who wasn't one of Hollywood's smalltalk prettyboys. Affleck is just a disaster. To a fan of the universe they seemed to be setting up for Cinema (if not a big fan of DC comics generally), it just looks like a trainwreck from here.

Edited to add: So glad I turned out to be a Marvel fanboi.

Magus Prime

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2013, 03:33:54 AM »
Looks like a case of Shroedinger's Cat because I'm observing something entirely different.  And I can't accept that the decision to cast Affleck has completely derailed all the momentum and excitement.  Nor can I accept that the decision has had any effect on what's already happened.  It was a great movie and whatever they do to the next one will not and cannot change the fact that the first film was an out and out success.  I get that Ben is an outlier but the fact is many of us aren't too concerned with who plays Batman (granted he wasn't at all my first choice), we just care that Batman and Superman are gonna be in a film together. 


Grossing $660 million on a budget of $225 mill is no mean feat.  I won't sit here and cite who did better.  At the end of the day everyone who bankrolled the film made scads of cash and expect a sequel to net them even more.  No one at WB is sweating even a little bit.  The decision to include Bats in the next film wasn't an act of desperation.  It was a genius move.  Two pronged in that we can expect an exponential increase in interest as the production and release loom closer and lumping these two heroes together will get us to a Justice League movie all that much sooner.

Captain Electric

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2013, 03:43:34 AM »
Started to write out more of a response but I don't really care. After the Affleck announcement, I just don't sit around thinking about it. It hasn't been intentional or hateful or anything silly like that. I didn't see the last two Batman movies before Bale came along either. I'll just count my blessings to finally be living in an age when most Batman movies ever made aren't dumb.

Guess we'll see. Happy they have a fan in you!

Golden Girl

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2013, 04:22:18 AM »
Grossing $660 million on a budget of $225 mill is no mean feat.  I won't sit here and cite who did better.  At the end of the day everyone who bankrolled the film made scads of cash

You forgot to add in the $170 million advertising campaign, and subtract the 20-25% of the gross that goes to the theaters - not counting special markets, like China, where studios only get 25% of the gross - Man of steel made about $40 million in China, but WB only gets $10 million of that.

Quote
No one at WB is sweating even a little bit.

Of course not - they would have been unreasonable to expect a Superman movie to outscore "The Hunger Games", "Madagascar 3", "2012", "Fast and Furious 6" at the box office - after all, it's only Superman - you can't really expect it to perform like the 6th installment in a Vin Diesel car movie.

Obviously, this is all unadjusted grosses - when you adjust for inflations, things start looking really ugly :P

Quote
The decision to include Bats in the next film wasn't an act of desperation.


See above ;)

Quote
lumping these two heroes together will get us to a Justice League movie all that much sooner.

You'd think we would have heard more about the upcoming Wonder Woman, Flash and rebooted Green Lantern movies by now, as they seem to be fast tracking their Justice League movie - Marvel laid out their movie universe plans - you'd think DC would be keen top do the same, to show that they had a plan.
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Magus Prime

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2013, 05:29:15 AM »
The markets aside, it's safe to assume everyone's on board to make money.  Now it would be reasonable to assume in the long run, the huge profit margin from several movies spawned from the DC Universe will be worth the short gain from the singular first film (Not unlike building and selling a game console you take a loss on and make it back and then some on the games).  While you see a franchise that's peaked and in its death throes, I see in "Man of Steel" the foundation for a universe to be built around.  One which the masses will pay to watch.  I think what I'm describing is known as a cash cow.

But that's just this movie-goer's prediction.  We'll just have to wait and see.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2013, 06:30:27 AM by Magus Prime »

Eoraptor

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2013, 05:00:55 PM »
Going to wade in here, because I am one of those for whom MoS was a profound disappointment. And while the movie did financially well on box office, that was all it did. Everyone went to see it opening weekend because "it's the next big superhero movie" and "it's the new superman movie" And that was easily enough buildup to make back its budget when most english-speaking movie goers go to see the same movie over a span of about 5 days.

By Monday morning, Man of Steel had effectively split DC and Warner's fanbase right down the middle. Traditionalist fans of the big blue boy scout like me hated it for derailing seventy five years of character work in favour of grimdark; and Modernists who enjoy the nu52 loved it because it made the character less boring and hyper-powered to them.

And because of that schism, it "underperformed." It didn't drive merchandising sales the way Batman Begins and Ironman did (those two movies being the archetypes for modern franchise launching). It didn't maintain its numbers for more than two weeks the way BB and Ironman did. And as we've seen in subsequent discussions, people aren't rabidly awaiting the sequel, so much as morbidly anticipating it. The movie did box office numbers, but in the much larger scope of building the brand for the DCMU and driving interest in licensed toys, games, and spin off media, the substantially larger financial market where billions are made compared to the 250mil that MOS did on screen; it has decidedly not performed up to expectations. (this is actually the same thing that happened to Superman Returns, it made bank, but didn't build the brand, which is why Brandon Routh ended up doing a one season sitcom instead of putting on the tights again)

I still see a lot of Bale-era batman costumes on the shelves for Halloween this year, but I see surprisingly fewer Cavill superman costumes, an indication of how it has failed to move merchandise.
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Magus Prime

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2013, 12:42:56 AM »
To be clear, I'm not defending the movie simply because I don't think I need to.  To use Chris Rock's example, it's like crack.  It sells itself.  I just think GG's appraisal of the state of the franchise was a tad dismal, which from her, is par for the course.  Obviously, MoS wasn't a complex narrative like Downton Abbey.  Neither did it bring in Avatar money.  Nonetheless, I don't see the movie being anything less than a success, both short and long term.  Did a lot of people like it? Yes. Did it make a lot of money? Yes.  Do they have plans to make many more?  Indeed. 

But herein, as the bard would tell us, lies the rub: 


-GG doesn't think it's a good Superman movie.
-Because it didn't clear Kung Fu Panda 2 in ticket sales (a PG rated movie which made it more accessible. And since parents have to accompany their kids they also have to buy tickets, whereas MoS had to stand on its own merits and strictly be a film people wanted to see.), it didn't make enough money.
-No definitive mention of other films so they must not want to make more after the sequel so we might as well call the whole thing off.


Yet, despite all these signs GG used to divine that the proverbial sky is falling, I still have this nagging feeling that if Snyder and Co. were to release a trailer with say, a cowled Affleck pensively sitting atop a gargoyle in the rain on a skyscraper while looking down upon an unsuspecting Cavill, that's really all it'd take to have the masses clamoring and abuzz for more.

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2013, 01:16:45 AM »
That last sentence would be more believable if it didn't have Affquack in it. ;D

"BEN AFFLECK IS BATMAN" sounds more like a Saturday Night Live skit or something.

Magus Prime

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #20 on: September 17, 2013, 01:41:37 AM »
Yeah, I dunno.  I was right there with everyone at first but it's had time to marinate and I generally try to keep an open mind.  After seeing some mock-ups of Affleck in the mask, he really does have the look for it.  Especially the chin.  The lower lip and the stubble.  You might not be able to sculpt a better looking Batman.  He's definitely guilty of committing some big screen atrocities but he's paid his dues and deserves a second chance.  It certainly helped his case that I wasn't all that partial to Bale.  Closer to the Batman from the Arkham games, imo.



« Last Edit: September 17, 2013, 01:50:48 AM by Magus Prime »

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #21 on: September 17, 2013, 06:51:06 AM »
That last sentence would be more believable if it didn't have Affquack in it. ;D

"BEN AFFLECK IS BATMAN" sounds more like a Saturday Night Live skit or something.

Just wait for the season premier of Saturday Night Live.  It's too good for the writer's room to pass up.
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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #22 on: September 17, 2013, 08:27:17 AM »
I don't think that Ben Affleck ruined the new idea completely.  I mean give the guy a break.  Don't judge him until the movie is actually out.  Daredevil wasn't good but he has become a better actor as time has gone on.  But you can't say the movie is bad because Affleck is in it when the movie it self isn't even out yet.  How about we give the movie a chance instead of judging it because you don't like a single actor on a project that is being ran by hundreds of people.  I am sure you all would like to be given a chance instead of just having people assume that you are going to do the worst job you can.  And there is no way Justin Bieber is going to be the new Robin.  It's clearly a rumor that is created to pull on the strings of people who are already throwing a fit over Ben Affleck being in the movie

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #23 on: September 17, 2013, 08:44:54 AM »
Matt Damon is a shoe in as Robin, after all! ;D

Night-Hawk07

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2013, 07:38:02 PM »
Based on those pics above, Affleck might pull off the look. My biggest concern was can he pull off Batman the person? I think he'd make a great Bruce Wayne, but it's very hard for me to picture him all grim-and-gritty like Batman (modern Batman anyway; I could see him playing the cheesy, campy Batman of the 60s).

And Cap, it's funny you say that about Damon. I did read an article about a month ago saying that there were rumors out there that he's being looked at for either Martian Manhunter or The Flash (I think, might have been one of the Green Lanterns).

Somewhere, can't remember if it was here or elsewhere, someone was talking about the need to fast track the introduction of the various members of the Justice League for a new JL movie. IMO, they really oughta look toward Arrow for that. This season they've already said they're introducing The Flash (who's then supposed to go on to have his own movie or TV show, can't remember), Black Canary, Red Arrow, among others. Marvel's tying their movie universe to a TV show on ABC, why not do the same for Arrow and DC's movie universe.

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #25 on: September 17, 2013, 10:49:56 PM »

Somewhere, can't remember if it was here or elsewhere, someone was talking about the need to fast track the introduction of the various members of the Justice League for a new JL movie. IMO, they really oughta look toward Arrow for that.
And that is what DC just doesn't get. they want the cache and the mad money that comes with the Avengers Initiative... but they don't want to put in the decade plus of development, careful planning, and VERY careful writing that Marvel put into that. hence, Man of Steel was full of reused ideas like spider robots and black latex superman, Superman versus Batman has been promised to be basically a clone of either The Dark Knight Returns or another morrison dark knight book, and how many restarts have they had on the ACTUAL justice league script?

It's not just fan kvetching, it's a simple numbers comparison. Warner Brothers and DC Entertainment don't want to put in the work to get the same rewards Marvel is reaping. (and in truth, after the way Iron Man 3 wallowed because of Disney's meddling, Marvel may not be making that bank back either depending on what the mouse has done to thor2 and cap2 in the same chase for bank)
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JaguarX

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #26 on: September 17, 2013, 10:58:18 PM »
, and how many restarts have they had on the ACTUAL justice league script?


They are trying to figure out how to make Aquaman dark like the rest without looking too emo.

Night-Hawk07

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #27 on: September 18, 2013, 12:48:35 AM »
They are trying to figure out how to make Aquaman dark like the rest without looking too emo.

Someone should point them here. Leave it to Bruce Timm and the DCAU to make Aquaman a bad@$$ for once.  ;D

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #28 on: September 18, 2013, 02:12:57 AM »
Someone should point them here. Leave it to Bruce Timm and the DCAU to make Aquaman a bad@$$ for once.  ;D

Our names are quite similar :) When nighthawx is taken i go with nighthawx7
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JaguarX

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #29 on: September 18, 2013, 09:42:30 AM »
Someone should point them here. Leave it to Bruce Timm and the DCAU to make Aquaman a bad@$$ for once.  ;D
and without going all dark and bleak. Just plain old fashioned badass.

Night-Hawk07

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #30 on: September 18, 2013, 06:21:27 PM »
Our names are quite similar :) When nighthawx is taken i go with nighthawx7

There seem to be a lot of us around. There's a guy on here named Knighthawk Prime, who actually contacted me in-game right before shutdown, cause of the similarity in our names (that was his @ handle I think, my toon was "Knight'Hawk" cause "Night-Hawk" was already taken when I moved from Protector to Freedom). The "07" part is related to the year I joined CoH (2007).

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #31 on: September 25, 2013, 12:01:12 PM »
I actually liked Daredevil.  Not the theatrical but the directors cut.

In one thing though I seem to be the exact opposite of everybody else.  I think he will make a believable Batman but not a Bruce Wayne.  Put anybody who is fit into a Batman costume and have them scowl and talk raspy and they become Batman.  It's a simple shallow role because the whole concept is somebody deliberately "acting" intimidating.  But Ben is one of those actors who plays himself in every movie.  He comes across as an average every day kind of guy.  I don't think Bruce should just be some guy off of the street who happens to have billions of dollars.

Battlechimp

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2013, 10:27:35 PM »
Someone should point them here. Leave it to Bruce Timm and the DCAU to make Aquaman a bad@$$ for once.  ;D

Of course Bruce Timm took that Aquaman from Peter David's run on the comic :-) Timm did not come with that image or attitude for the character
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Taceus Jiwede

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2013, 09:43:03 AM »
Quote
I think he will make a believable Batman but not a Bruce Wayne

I very much so agree with this.

Nos482

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Re: Ben Affleck might Not Be So Bad
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2013, 05:09:43 PM »
I'm bad and that's good.
I'll never be good and that's not bad.
There's no one I'd rather be than me.

...unless I could be Batman, of course. Everybody wants to be Batman.