Author Topic: Atlas Park 33  (Read 8492 times)

navyrayne

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2013, 10:45:02 PM »
How did this derail from an post about AP33 into "we all hate the evil corporate people" exactly?
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JaguarX

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2013, 10:45:55 PM »
How did this derail from an post about AP33 into "we all hate the evil corporate people" exactly?

the usual way.

"hey, who likes cotton candy?"

"DEATH TO NCSOFT!!!"

Lycantropus

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2013, 07:16:02 AM »
Derailing the thread was SO not what I wanted, even though I knew my response wasn't going to be popular.

I'm not advocating acceptance or forgiveness of the ill-will NCsoft  provoked, just that it did contribute to us reaching the point it did by supporting the Paragon Studios staff when the original owners had given up on the game for other ventures (and if you think they're terrible, remember they created it to begin with).

In fact, I even pointed out I cannot in good conscience support anything they produce after this as a by-product of their decision. Acknowledging good works does not undermine the responsibilities of those who purveyed them when they decide to choose otherwise.

So who likes cotton candy? :D

EDIT- I was a little emotional when I first posted, and have altered it to convey my message in a more neutral manner. I really didn't wish to derail the thread

Lyc~
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 02:09:43 PM by Lycantropus »

Manga

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2013, 02:48:48 PM »
Actually the little side argument is entirely relevant to the point of AP33 - because we should all remember EXACTLY what happened and why.

Both inside and out of this thread, I see too many people who "drank the kool-aid" (the PR put out by NCSoft) and now say that we had it coming; CoH had a good run but it was old and ready for shutdown anyway; Paragon Studios must have done something to upset its parent company and deserved what happened; NCSoft did indeed make every effort to save the game and did exhaust all options to sell first because they said so.

AP33 was not an expression of "hey, we had a good run and this is us saying goodbye to each other one last time".  No, it was telling NCSoft that we still have a loyal, dedicated, and active playerbase and we're not ready to go yet.

This also wasn't a case of corporate being ignorant to what was going on.  We made sure they knew, and were involved.  The press releases they made, that they exhausted all options, and later that the shutdown had to proceed for legal reasons before any offers could be entertained - they were lies.  Believing them now...then why did we have a Save CoH movement at all?

And as for "get over it and move on"...maybe I can get over the actual game shutdown, but NCSoft's behavior has not changed.  Their contempt for gamers is still palpable, they haven't really learned anything.  That's what the memory of AP33 is about, and how it affects us now - telling companies like that, while we may have to take the abuse, we don't have to do so quietly.

So hold your torch, wear your t-shirt, and keep reminding them.

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2013, 04:14:55 PM »
The point of AP33 was us NOT accepting the usual way corporations handle things.  That's what protests are for.  I understand NCSoft is a business.  So are Monsanto, Dupont, etc.  But if people just accepted what corporations want to do without ever raising a ruckus, we would all be buying oxygen to breathe and eating Soylent Green. 

I understand closing CoH was a "business decision" and not personal.  I've seen the Godfather.  I know how that works.  But that doesn't mean we don't have every right to be angry, even outraged.  The way the players and devs were treated was shoddy, no matter if it was just a business decision.  Maybe the world needs to change the way business is conducted.  That might be a pipe dream, but change has to start somewhere.  And more often than not it starts in a lot of small places in a lot of small ways.

Maybe AP33 is just one of those small ways.
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JaguarX

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2013, 06:12:52 PM »
Actually the little side argument is entirely relevant to the point of AP33 - because we should all remember EXACTLY what happened and why.

Both inside and out of this thread, I see too many people who "drank the kool-aid" (the PR put out by NCSoft) and now say that we had it coming; CoH had a good run but it was old and ready for shutdown anyway; Paragon Studios must have done something to upset its parent company and deserved what happened; NCSoft did indeed make every effort to save the game and did exhaust all options to sell first because they said so.

AP33 was not an expression of "hey, we had a good run and this is us saying goodbye to each other one last time".  No, it was telling NCSoft that we still have a loyal, dedicated, and active playerbase and we're not ready to go yet.

This also wasn't a case of corporate being ignorant to what was going on.  We made sure they knew, and were involved.  The press releases they made, that they exhausted all options, and later that the shutdown had to proceed for legal reasons before any offers could be entertained - they were lies.  Believing them now...then why did we have a Save CoH movement at all?

And as for "get over it and move on"...maybe I can get over the actual game shutdown, but NCSoft's behavior has not changed.  Their contempt for gamers is still palpable, they haven't really learned anything.  That's what the memory of AP33 is about, and how it affects us now - telling companies like that, while we may have to take the abuse, we don't have to do so quietly.

So hold your torch, wear your t-shirt, and keep reminding them.

Well usually the shutdown process is the end and everyone in the world can show up but it usually wont change the mind. To really show that the game had that many people playing there should had been AP33 everyday. That is how ya show support for something you love. Don't wait until it's on it's death bed then come out the wood work. Many people that showed up to AP33 haven't played in years. That means for years they wasn't part of the income and less income, more risk for shutdown.

While it wasa noble and symbolic gesture, it should have been known it wouldn't change their minds. They are not looking at population for one day. They look at the way the population and income drop over a long span of time. around first quarter game was raking in 9 million a quarter eventually reaching 15 million. From there it dropped over the years eventually reaching low of about 2.3 million a quarter. Last I check that is a pretty decent slide over the years especially when inflation is included from 2004-2005 and compared to 2012, and not to mention the KWN rate. Of course they could have did it in a more delicate manner and handled it better and maybe they lied maybe they didn't. All I see is biased people saying they lied with not a sliver of evidence that they in fact lied about for example. saying they couldn't sell it before hand legally for example. For one, who ever bought the game would probably had to legally agree to be responsible for ay future lawsuits whether it was likely to happen or not. And a business transaction is more than taking a bag of money and saying "shut up and take my money".

Yes be mad never forget, change the way business people treat people but the cause will never go anywhere if it's full of lies and exaggerations and unproven assumptions itself. People say they don't know the reason for shutdown but make up their own reason as truth. People said the decision makers probably never played the game so if it was in fact true they never played the game how would they even know there was an AP33 in game? All the stuff we sent, is it sure it actually made it to the decision makers? Even when sending letters and stuff to the CEO office, CEOs usually don't personally open their own mail, they have secretary or other people the screen the mail and decide what is important for the CEO eyes and what is not.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 06:20:54 PM by JaguarX »

Manga

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2013, 07:01:41 PM »
Calling me a liar and fabricator, you're either a troll or an a-hole looking for a fight.  Shoo!  Go away!


JaguarX

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2013, 07:26:18 PM »
Calling me a liar and fabricator, you're either a troll or an a-hole looking for a fight.  Shoo!  Go away!
Neither one.

As you said, people must be drinking the Kool-Aid, if they basically overall didn't take up arms against NCSOFT and believe NCSOFT, they said so.

yet, we are supposed to drink your Kool-Aid and believe the exaggerations and made reasons?

Maybe they did make every effort maybe they didn't but there haven't been solid evidence provided that points to them that they fabricated anything. Although, there is plenty of fabrication of reasons attributed to NCSOFT for the shut down and being used as why people should be upset at NCSOFT. Maybe they may be on to something maybe not. And it seems clearer that it's mostly angry talk taking over completetly and assumptions running rampant because when anyone even mention, "is there evidence of what you say is true? That NCSOFT decision makers seen AP33 in game, that they did it with malicious intent and hate, that they ignored AP33", it's called trolling.

Usually people go straight to the trolling thing to avoid answering and accounting for the untruths in their statements or to switch the subject so they wont have to address their own illogical statements. There might as well be which evidence that NCSOFT in fact did and was in game personally during AP33, which would nullify the statement that they never played their own game. Maybe they did have ill reasons to close but then that would nullify the statement that the did it for no reason. But then if they gave no reason for closing the game, how would know if they had a reason or not?

The just of what I'm saying no movement no matter the just cause or admirable cause it has survive long and make an impact based upon assumptions, made up reasons, and baseless accusations. To make a movement have the impact it desires, no matter how angry, stick to the known provable facts and present them. That is the most powerful way to get noticed. Keep with the assumptions and etc. then one, that is no better than entity they are rallying about and accusing of doing such a thing when they do the same thing themselves, two people will listen for a while and sympathize for a bit but then usually start asking for the facts and or just pass it off, "Those people are still angry" and not be considered a reliable source on the matter. Like someone spoke of organizing something like a log off day. It's possible and can be done but no one is going to take it serious when the activist group is basically a pot is calling the kettle black situation. And thus far, as we have seen that is exactly what happened. While it's popular here on this site, overall, no one cares for it. It was entertaining for a bit, but now it's mostly being ignored and nearly forgotten about. Most are focusing on the projects, private servers, and not giving money to NCSOFT instead of sitting around still steaming and ranting and raving and being angry 24/7. Those are the people that let NCSOFT win. It shows that NCSOFT have so much power that they still even have as much of a grip on their emotions and thought process that they have on the COX IP. I'm not saying forget, and anger can be good as it can spur all types of good things and motivation but uncontrolled anger to the point where it keeps people in the mud creating mud to sling, it's not healthy and not helpful at all to the cause.

Me personally I viewed AP33 as more than just trying to show NCSOFT. It was to show people that there is still people that is ready to actually do something. And sitting around constantly "Hate NCSOFT!" is not considered doing something. It's like that person who after years is still sitting around talking about their ex-partner and  while their partner got remarried, started a new family and not even thinking about them anymore. It comes off as merely bitter. Not heroic, not resilient, which requires taking that hurt not letting the cause of that hurt have that much control and doing what you have to do. There are plenty of ways to get back at NCSOFT if it suits your fancy. Pick a way and do it. But sitting around letting your mind and emotions be a slave to NCSOFT is not progress and not winning against NCSOFT. That is NCSOFT winning against you. They took your game, and are you going to let them still after a year and beyond keep you mind too? They made the game and owned it but I doubt they created your mind. You probably existed prior to COX and remember to exist after COX.   
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 07:31:47 PM by JaguarX »

Manga

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2013, 07:44:52 PM »
Every post detailing the Save CoH movement, TonyV/Victoria Victrix/Rae involvement, NCSoft's responses, etc are ALL STILL HERE.  At this very message board.  Use the search feature, you complete moron.  Unless you're actually stupid enough to believe that somehow I fabricated those too.  And if you believe that, you truly are a brainless wall of text posting, under bridge dwelling, loser troll.

JaguarX

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2013, 07:47:03 PM »
Every post detailing the Save CoH movement, TonyV/Victoria Victrix/Rae involvement, NCSoft's responses, etc are ALL STILL HERE.  At this very message board.  Use the search feature, you complete moron.  Unless you're actually stupid enough to believe that somehow I fabricated those too.  And if you believe that, you truly are a brainless wall of text posting, under bridge dwelling, loser troll.

Who is actually the troll here? Looks like you in this case.

Anyways, though I know those things are here. And I guess you missed when I said outside of here. I never said they went away.

Well anyways, you really proved my point in why people outside of here don't take us seriously. Because people like you making everyone involved with those efforts look like immature whining brats. Hopefully outside this forum, you are keeping your mouth shut because you are a liability and actually helping NCSOFT by running people away from this movement. You're the reason why many people don't want anything to do with the movements and view it as a bunch of angry people having a tantrum just as you are doing now. Well good day to you sir, and please for real do us all a favor, and do not go proving the negative image that people have of these movements right as you did here. You did no good in even defending your point and seemed to prove every single bit of negative thing that I said is dangerous to the cause right in your posts. Sad, but I already knew people like you existed. You just confirmed it.

Golden Girl

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2013, 07:51:36 PM »
How did this derail from an post about AP33 into "we all hate the evil corporate people" exactly?

Well, they are kinda linked :P

If CoH had been run by a corporation with a conscience, this thread wouldn't even be here.
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Manga

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #31 on: September 14, 2013, 07:56:32 PM »
Oh so now you're calling TonyV, Victroria Victrix, Rae, even Golden Girl who started this thread, and everyone else involved with the Save CoH movement liars and fabricators too?  You're going to call us all liars and then say *I'm* the troll?

Ok, now I'm completely sure you're bored today and want to see how many people you can get away with insulting before you're banned.  I guess now all that's left is to wait for this thread to be locked and/or deleted...
« Last Edit: September 14, 2013, 08:12:33 PM by TheManga »

DJMoose

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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #32 on: September 14, 2013, 09:51:41 PM »
What is this "troll" you speak of?  Sounds more like a unicorn to me. :P
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Re: Atlas Park 33
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2013, 12:51:55 AM »
OK.  Points that people felt needed to be made were made.  Conversation degrading.  Etc.

Locking the thread.
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