Author Topic: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead  (Read 13105 times)

houtex

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2013, 02:25:31 AM »
It wasn't supposed to be terribly funny, I think.  It was exactly what I said it was above: 

"Depressing builds characters better.  This is about Tony coming to terms with the fact he is not actually indestructable, and is more responsible than ever before, re: Pepper.  And balancing that personal side of him, and still being Iron Man."

And since I've seen it, I was right.  This is the penultimate issue of being a big target/damn hero.  There ARE others in your life who are also at risk.  And your possessions, if that matters.  Your very life... soul even.

This is what I wanted to see.  It think they got it pretty well.  Some cheese, sure, and jokes here and there, but this was about Tony being all grown up for a change... Or finally growing up, if you will.  Still brash, but with a side of responsibility.

Whether that jibes with the comic book?  Don't care.  Books <> Comics <> Movies <> Radio Programs <> Plays <> Books.  They all 'play' different, and if you read about how Douglas Adams thought about the Hitchhiker's Trilogy re: Book, radio, TV, Movie... He knew this and made changes to all of them.  On purpose.  This is what Comics to Movies is about, they're GOING to be different.  Enjoy it for what it is... not a complete copy of what was previously written/drawn.  Like the new Trek, I simply don't expect them to be perfect, but at least get the basic principles enough to make it a good show.

Lookin' forward to Friday night, btw. :)

/By the way, spoilers. Although if you're in here, and you haven't seen it, you shouldn't have opened this up, dummy.  GO SEE IT. :D

MaidMercury

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2013, 09:36:21 PM »
Kind of came here late...however, does anyone still have the file laying around:  :-X

ironman_screensaver_pc.exe ?

This was free on the 2008  movie website...I'm kind of looking for this screensaver.

It's on Google but always comes with spyware,tracking, etc, if you download it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I liked the movie better than Ironman II.
I was very disappointed the Mandarin was not the villain, per say.
The posters, promos....Felt cheated.
Why waste 2 stories in one?
Extremis could've worked without the Mandarin on it's own.

I also didn't care for America bashing, yes, we have skeletons in our closet-so does every country.
I'm also sick of losers like Bill maher, Joan rivers sticking their unsightly noses into ironman movies.
I watch these movies to get away from trash like them.

Guess Ironman is so coOL it 'everybody wants to get into the act.
Yes, i agree, it looked like a wrap up of Robert Downy jr.....

I think Marvel would be better off to hire unknown actors for these parts.
These guys ask too much money it is nauseating to see in this economy.
Avengers II most likely won't happen, unless they do it with other (cheaper) heroes.  :roll:



« Last Edit: May 24, 2013, 10:04:15 PM by MaidMercury »

FatherXmas

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2013, 10:55:25 PM »
Kind of came here late...however, does anyone still have the file laying around:  :-X

ironman_screensaver_pc.exe ?

This was free on the 2008  movie website...I'm kind of looking for this screensaver.

It's on Google but always comes with spyware,tracking, etc, if you download it.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
I liked the movie better than Ironman II.
I was very disappointed the Mandarin was not the villain, per say.
The posters, promos....Felt cheated.
Why waste 2 stories in one?
Extremis could've worked without the Mandarin on it's own.

I also didn't care for America bashing, yes, we have skeletons in our closet-so does every country.
I'm also sick of losers like Bill maher, Joan rivers sticking their unsightly noses into ironman movies.
I watch these movies to get away from trash like them.

Guess Ironman is so coOL it 'everybody wants to get into the act.
Yes, i agree, it looked like a wrap up of Robert Downy jr.....

I think Marvel would be better off to hire unknown actors for these parts.
These guys ask too much money it is nauseating to see in this economy.
Avengers II most likely won't happen, unless they do it with other (cheaper) heroes.  :roll:

Well America bashing is the kind of rhetoric we have come to expect to hear from an international terrorist.  I didn't look at that negatively, I looked at that as the Mandarin being in character (that turned out ironic didn't it).

Why do you think other heroes are cropping up in Avengers II?  The Avengers were always a rotating cast.  This way in the future if they have conflicts with actor's shooting schedules or negotiations, they will always have other heroes they could rotate in.

Yes RDJ made a supertanker full of cash but that's because he wisely took a cut of the sales before accounting movie magic happens.  Avengers - $1.5 billion worldwide.   Iron Man 3 - $1.1 billion so far.
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MaidMercury

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2013, 11:05:34 PM »
I can see your point about the mandarin...I am sensitive about the United States I suppose.

I think Tony Stark having nightmares about the 'worm hole' was also a ploy to excuse
him from Avengers II. As well as cost savings :roll:
It will give opportunity to new cast members- which I think will be QuickSilver/Scarlet Witch
and AntMan (Giantman) not sure what he is called these days.


But that's all the more the Mandarin should have been the main villain.
I think it wasn't done because China owns our deficit.
....(and who knows what else politicians sold out for.)

That aside....It did keep the movie plot 'a secret' doing that. Perhaps it was clever...
Pepper Potts does get to shine in the movie.

FatherXmas

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2013, 01:52:23 AM »
I can see your point about the mandarin...I am sensitive about the United States I suppose.

I sense that.

Quote
I think Tony Stark having nightmares about the 'worm hole' was also a ploy to excuse
him from Avengers II. As well as cost savings :roll:
It will give opportunity to new cast members- which I think will be QuickSilver/Scarlet Witch
and AntMan (Giantman) not sure what he is called these days.

Yes and no.  It was RDJ's Iron Man that made all these interlocking Marvel Universe movies work.  After The Avengers and the 3 Iron Man movies,  Thor was next in box office totals and it was only 60% of Iron Man 2 which was the movie before it.  Capt America and the Incredible Hulk were even less.  Disney not stupid.  RDJ/Iron Man is money.  RDJ not stupid either.  He'll be back and they will gladly pay for it, especially if it's an ensemble part.

Also except for the Hulk, all the movies did better overseas than in the US.

Quote
But that's all the more the Mandarin should have been the main villain.
I think it wasn't done because China owns our deficit.
....(and who knows what else politicians sold out for.)

I see you got your tin foil hat on.  Yes it was likely political but not in the sense you mean.  Disney is a big international company and China is one of the fastest growing economies in the world representing 1 in 6 or so people currently walking about on this rock.  It would be stupid not to take China's "feelings" into account on any movie they are doing so they don't do anything that could get them kicked out of China.  I'm guessing that's why they came up with such a twist on the Mandarin.

Quote
That aside....It did keep the movie plot 'a secret' doing that. Perhaps it was clever...

Almost too clever.  It did ticked off a lot of Marvel fanboys because Ellis's story was so good and the trailer looked as if they were following it to some extent.  Plus we get the Mandarin.  Instead they turned the story on it's head and faked use all out.

Quote
Pepper Potts does get to shine in the movie.

I would say more of a smoldering glow.  ;)
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MaidMercury

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2013, 02:04:46 AM »
Tin foil hat? Is that an insult?

I'm pretty grounded in history and Government. I know reality.

'Tin foil hat' usually is a term for people that believe in Chem trails, Illuminati, Masons.
Which I am not into.

If you meant to say I am completely off on my guess about why the Mandarin was watered down
from his original 60's origin, I understand.

Movies usually are made with less logic behind them than I think, and I may have read too much into it.

If you did mean to insult, then 'good day' to you.

FatherXmas

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2013, 02:23:14 AM »
Sorry if you thought it was an insult, perhaps it was because I don't read political conspiracy into everything and it seemed to me that you were.  It's a phrase I use any anyone who attributes everything first to a conspiracy rather than more mundane causes like Hanlon's Razor or simple personal/corporate self interest.

Just today in Guild Wars 2 they nerfed the drops at one segment of a multisegment event because it was being used by bots to farm indefinitely.  Sort of like how way back in CoH you could farm critters popping out of portals indefinitely.  Leave the portals untouched, infinite spawns.  Players of course caught on as well and farmed the John Deer out of it.  Of course this broke how the whole event is suppose to play out, stopping other events from spawning, etc.  So what did the players who were farming this event concluded as the TRUE reason?  ANet is denying them a source of gold so they will be forced to pay cash for cash shop items rather than with gold.

This is why I've been asking for a tin foil hat at the cash shop, I think it's sure to be popular.
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Battlechimp

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2013, 03:08:17 PM »


But that's all the more the Mandarin should have been the main villain.
I think it wasn't done because China owns our deficit.
....(and who knows what else politicians sold out for.)

That aside....It did keep the movie plot 'a secret' doing that. Perhaps it was clever...
Pepper Potts does get to shine in the movie.

One of the main reasons for the change was money. And its a fact that they never tried to hide.  The film was partially subsidized by the China film industry.  They'd never allow the Mandarin to be portrayed like he is in the comics.  That's also why the Chinese version of the film has some extra scenes (don't worry about seeing them, you can find the scenes online and about the only thing they add to the movie is pacing issues) they are mostly up with china type messages.  But what this get Disney is they are now allowed to have a wide release of the movie in China. Legally.  China only allows less than a dozen 'western' films to be released in wide distribution a year.  And by working with the Chinese film industry it gets them around that restriction because by Chinese law IM3 is now considered a Chinese produced film and not limited in where it can be distributed.  And as mentioned before, China is a huge and growing market.

And another reason is quite frankly the Mandarin as he's imaged in the comics can be considered a bit racist. His design is heavily influenced by the Yellow Menace propaganda. And he was created in a time when that kind of stereotype racism wasn't frowned upon in general media. But now that's a much touchier subject. 

Now yeah you could take those wrappings and make him just a Chinese terrorist, rings etc. But then see original point :-)

And the way he's used in the movie becomes a study in the fear of the Other. How when handed what we expect to see we don't always look further.  It bacame 'oh no gu who hates America <insert random political topic>'. He's claiming responsibility for those explosions and everyone shuts their brain off and reads no more into it.  Killian uses that to cover his little failures and potentially drives up prices for his melty soldiers for when he sells them to fight this menace that he's created.
 
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TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2013, 07:56:20 PM »
Politics have a pretty darned big hand in filmmaking. A lot more than many like to think (and in some cases, a lot less). Allegedly, Hollywood folks to some extent actually have some degree of a conscience. And with all the ranting and raving about how much money they rake in, one of the ways this gets balanced is by promoting a lot of popular messages. This makes them feel like they're leading the herd towards a better tomorrow. A couple of major examples off the top of my head.

Star Wars prequels: In interviews with George Lucas, during the few years after Jedi was released, his plan was to make a trilogy that focused on the Empire, giving us an equal look into their motivations. The idea was that neither the Empire nor the Alliance was the "good guy", and after being shown both perspectives, it would be left to the audience to form their own conclusions. In the post 9/11 world, Palpatine got transformed into a reflection of what the conspiracy theorists thought of President G.W. Bush. Elements of the more relativistic take of the war remain in the plot (probably by accident), but you have to look harder to spot them.

Pirates of the Caribbean 3: "Right to Habeas Corpus Suspended" as part of a campaign to put an end to terroris... I mean piracy. This film was released less than a year after the Military Commissions Act, which many feared would abolish the very same right.

The Abyss: If you haven't seen the uncut version of this film, watch it. In mid-production, the 1990 Gulf War began, which was hailed as a freedom mission to liberate Kuwait. The preachy anti-war message was removed as much as plot integrity would allow. At release, it didn't take a brain surgeon to realize that something in the film was blatantly missing.

FatherXmas

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2013, 09:58:45 PM »
I on the other hand believe reviewer read to much current events into a movie and then interpret it though the filter of their own political beliefs.  So unless you can point to be interviews where the writer/director says that making a commentary about current events was their intent, it's all observational error to me.
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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #30 on: May 26, 2013, 05:33:41 AM »
Star Wars prequels: In interviews with George Lucas, during the few years after Jedi was released, his plan was to make a trilogy that focused on the Empire, giving us an equal look into their motivations. The idea was that neither the Empire nor the Alliance was the "good guy", and after being shown both perspectives, it would be left to the audience to form their own conclusions. In the post 9/11 world, Palpatine got transformed into a reflection of what the conspiracy theorists thought of President G.W. Bush. Elements of the more relativistic take of the war remain in the plot (probably by accident), but you have to look harder to spot them.

The portrayal of Palpatine/Sidious and the progression of his plot to overthrow the Republic in Episode 1 (filmed 1997-1998, released 1999) and Episode 2 (filmed 2000-2001, released 2002) are not only one of the most consistent aspects of the prequels, but were also well in place before 9/11.

And if you want to go further back, the prologue to the 1977 novelization of A New Hope, a lot of the basic prequel meta-story is already laid out, although without the Sith elements:

Quote
Another galaxy, another time.
The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that... it was the Republic.
Once, under the wise rule of the Senate and the protection of the Jedi Knights, the Republic throve and grew. But as often happens when wealth and power pass beyond the admirable and attain the awesome, then appear those evil ones who have greed to match.
So it was with the Republic at its height. Like the greatest of trees, able to withstand any external attack, the Republic rotted from within though the danger was not visible from outside.
Aided and abetted by restless, power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce, the ambitious Senator Palpatine caused himself to be elected President of the Republic. He promised to reunite the disaffected among the people and to restore the remembered glory of the Republic.
Once secure in office he declared himself Emperor, shutting himself away from the populace. Soon he was controlled by the very assistants and boot-lickers he had appointed to high office, and the cries of the people for justice did not reach his ears.
Having exterminated through treachery and deception the Jedi Knights, guardians of justice in the galaxy, the Imperial governors and bureaucrats prepared to institute a reign of terror among the disheartened worlds of the galaxy. Many used the imperial forces and the name of the increasingly isolated Emperor to further their own personal ambitions.
But a small number of systems rebelled at these new outrages. Declaring themselves opposed to the New Order they began the great battle to restore the Old Republic.
From the beginning they were vastly outnumbered by the systems held in thrall by the Emperor. In those first dark days it seemed certain the bright flame of resistance would be extinguished before it could cast the light of new truth across a galaxy of oppressed and beaten peoples...


The closest to any direct influence of 9/11 on the prequels is probably the brief "Twin Towers" shot of the Jedi Temple on fire the morning after Anakin's attack on it.
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TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2013, 10:16:15 AM »
The closest to any direct influence of 9/11 on the prequels is probably the brief "Twin Towers" shot of the Jedi Temple on fire the morning after Anakin's attack on it.

What I'm talking about isn't a specific moment, but the more generalized concept of inciting a war for the sole purpose of declaring "martial law" in order to deal with said war.

As for one of the probably inadvertent remnants of the less black&white outlook on the Empire, you have the portrayal of the Jedi in Episode 3. Sure, they could've taken it a step further and actually tried to find proof of their allegations. But the attempted 'arrest' of Palpatine by the Jedi was purely for religious reasons, not for suspected political treachery or war crimes, as was the attempted assassination that followed.

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2013, 07:23:26 PM »
What I'm talking about isn't a specific moment, but the more generalized concept of inciting a war for the sole purpose of declaring "martial law" in order to deal with said war.

The creation of the Clone Army/Grand Army of the Republic, the Separatist crisis, the the outbreak of the Clone Wars and the granding of emergency pwoes to Chancellor Palpatine all happened in Episode 2, written and filmed before 9/11 and the Iraq War.
Unlike the 1977 ANH novel prologue, where Palpatine ends up as a puppet of "power-hungry individuals within the government, and the massive organs of commerce", which makes for a reasonably good fit for one view point of the Bush adminsitration, in Episode 3, it's Palpatine who's the puppet master, and the "organs of commerce" - the Trade Federation, the Techno Unio and the InterGalactic Banking Clan - are all wiped out by Vader once they've served their purpose to Sidious in funding and supplying the Separatist cause.

Quote
As for one of the probably inadvertent remnants of the less black&white outlook on the Empire, you have the portrayal of the Jedi in Episode 3. Sure, they could've taken it a step further and actually tried to find proof of their allegations. But the attempted 'arrest' of Palpatine by the Jedi was purely for religious reasons, not for suspected political treachery or war crimes, as was the attempted assassination that followed.

The plan to remove Palpatine from office was already discussed by th Jedi Council before they knew he was a Sith Lord, and the arrest party was already on the way to Palpatine's office when Anakin told them that he'd discovered that the Chancellor was a Sith Lord.
The decision to kill Sidious was made on his own my Mace Windu, and only after Sidious started using his lightning - up until that point, he was still trying to arrest him, even though that tactic had resulted in 75% of the arrest party being wiped out by Sidious when he attacked them.
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houtex

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2013, 02:29:15 AM »
Palpatine was SUCH a bad 'swordsman' (if you will let me use that term... 'saberman' sounds wrong)... I found his defeating most of the arresting party so... weird.  I mean, just bad slash after bad slash... And no force chokes, no throwing litterally his entire desk and all the crap on it/in it towards them at hella velocities... nope, just 'I'm Sidious now, you all die because you're all freakin' out about my 'Taxi Driver'-ing a 'saber in my hand and then jumping at you like a crazed weasel.'  So... disappointing.  I expected a much more drawn out battle there.  Perhaps Anakin comes in and picks a side right then.  Would have been MUCH more believable.

His battle with Yoda was more in line with what I'd expect Sidious to be able to do... literally throw a senate chamber at Yoda.  The top Sith versus the top Jedi... and the Sith Lord is just that much more.

Yep.  That arrest scene should have been better.  Much better.  Sadness.

/If I may continue the sidetracking. :)

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2013, 10:38:49 AM »
I was more disappointed by Darth Tyranus' fighting.  Here's a guy who is supposed to be difficult to fight because his style is supposed to be more like fencing with lots of thrusts, and then he mostly fights pretty much like every other Jedi with whirly twirly slashes.
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houtex

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #35 on: May 29, 2013, 03:39:49 AM »
Yeah, I gotta agree with that.  I mean, Anakin and he fighting in the cave in II... just a bunch of flashing swords and lighting effects on their faces... then *thwip*, Anakin sans arm and it's over.  Nice.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #36 on: May 29, 2013, 06:18:57 PM »
Interestingly, just like Palpatine, both got better once they were fighting with Yoda. Which is sort of backwards since they would've been fighting an invisible foe during the shoot.

Could it be they intentionally downplayed the other fights because they wanted the ones with Yoda to look blatantly more epic?

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #37 on: May 29, 2013, 08:50:43 PM »
Could it be they intentionally downplayed the other fights because they wanted the ones with Yoda to look blatantly more epic?
Of course.  You step up your game when the playoffs start, man.  ;)
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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #38 on: May 29, 2013, 10:14:08 PM »
This ain't gonna be a popular post, but here goes: I gotta say I hated this movie.  The plot holes were tremendous, and the whole movie seemed to flow out of Tony Stark making incredibly stupid decisions (and he's supposed to be a genius).
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houtex

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Re: Iron Man 3 and spoilers ahead
« Reply #39 on: May 30, 2013, 01:58:35 AM »
Oh, but besides it being fiction, and therefore "stuff ain't real", anxiety and other emotional/mental issues can put the most intelligent and/or wise people into a crater in the ground, sobbing and making SUCH bad decisions...

The solution to Tony's anxiety, "build something"... novel.  Wouldn't have worked in my case. 

I could talk more, but I think this is about Iron Man and not me.  Suffice to say, I'm intelligent, I can work, and yet, anxiety is a bitch in the way of getting things done.  So what Tony was going through?  Yeah.  Pretty much sometimes.