Negative Article on Massively

[JaguarX]

There is a reason why I tended to avoid all but the red-name posts near the end on the forums.

Oh yeah. I just avoided the place overall.

It seems the red names left or rather the red name seemed swamped.

I find it sullenly sad that adults cant even be mature enough to police their own self and control their own behavior. Sad, very sad. That on one hand I can understand what Tim noticed about the society of no hope. It's like unless there is someone laying down the law, enforcing the law, telling us exactly how to behave and basically forcing us to behave, we are mere animals in a zoo running amok. Like we cant take care of ourselves and do what is right without some entity waving a stick threatening to bash us if we dont get in line. While it's a mere forum, it showed me a piece of society that can reach so low even in a game that is known within game circles as one that is friendly casual and mature and usually of age, and how people act when things go south.
As an ex-soldier, there were many there that I'm glad I never had the pleasure of sharing a fox hole with when crap hit the fan or else I probably would have had to shoot them myself.  I couldn't help to think, "Really? Come on this is getting absolutely absurd. And kind of embarrassing when trying to go around saying how great the community is while on the forum that anyone passing through cared to see, people, too many people are acting a plum fool. I remember poking fun at WoW a bit with how many immature people I could come across a day, but after that, I realized it doesn't matter what game, people are like that everywhere in game and out. There is no escape from them, and thus a slight feeling of no hope for society as a whole. I wonder what is going to happen if something real and dire do happen?

But yet, somehow, as illogical as part of my brain is telling me it is, I have hope for society with no reason to. I have hope that this game will come back even in the light that NCsoft probably wont budge. I don't need to hope that we will succeed because I KNOW we WILL succeed. We must succeed.

And it's a little late now but one common misconception about hope. Pessimism is not opposite of hope. And hope are optimism are not even the same thing. Opposite of hope is despair. So by definition you can be a pessimist and still have hope while you can be an optimism and still be stuck in despair. But you can still have optimism and hope at the same time.

[JaguarX]

He got annoyed at all the emails and tweets about the Cryptic thing.  So he lashed out in the form of a blog post.

I thought it was agreed we as a whole wasnt going to do that? Or was it outside sources?

But if that is the case, this could show why it's not always a good idea to email bomb everything.

[FatherXmas]

He has  right to move on and "accept" things as they are. We also have a right to hope, even if it is small. Didn't this guy only join the last few months and join because it was shutting down? Or was that someone else? (I /think/ this is the one that covered the closing. And if he had only played till shut down it's easy to see his "acceptance".)

No.  His first article about the game was Oct 14th, 2009 about the Halloween Event that year.  His MMR column started Jan 27, 2010.  (Edit: Massively started it's coverage Oct 7, 2007.  Massively's first article ever on anything, in their archive, is Sept 27th, 2007)

And comments like this is exactly the crap he is talking about.  Your first assumption that he wasn't a "true believer", a Johnny come lately, a lookie-loo reporter, someone who wasn't a player simply because he stuck a pin in your hope balloon.  You are like someone in stage 4 grasping at faith healers, untested herbal treatments and an all fruit diet.

If you haven't read it yet, read the Gamastutra article about the closure of the game and the attempted buyout.  It shows how hopeless the situation is resurrecting the game, as it was, truly is.

------------------
[rant]

It's about time that Massively, which supported the game for years, not just the last few months as other sites did, if that, threw a bucket of cold water on the zealots who in some cases are unintentionally giving the image of anyone who played CoH in the end and supported the calls to save it a, pardon the expression, nutbar.

Everyone take a freaking step back.  Take a deep breath.  It's gone.  The game that we loved, and played, some of us including me for years (I date back to Aug 2004, pre Issue 2) is no more.  And no I'm not going to insert the dead parrot sketch here but in all honesty some of you are in as much denial as the clerk in that.  I'll support any super hero game that is closer to the feel of CoH than the two we currently have.  I support ICON and the pigg diving to find all the untapped resources the game has.  The custom maps people have shown using the list of map pieces and IDs.

But to crucify Eliot and Massively because they said what, 4+ months after the closure, needed to be said is downright petty and as narrow minded as the Westboro Baptist Church.  If someone disagrees with your POV they are evil, the enemy, a target.  I know first hand since my e-mail is public here as it was in the old forums.  I got my fair share of vitriol dripping hate mail because of my posts here but I didn't give a rat's behind because I felt that it was just a few bad apples, the extremists that every group end of having.

Hate NCSOFT as much as you want.  Put CoH on the altar to worship as the one true MMO.  Believe it was a conspiracy to prop up ArenaNet or Carbine or paying for a baseball team (they are 0-7 so far this year) or it was a Nexon plot (Nexon, Nemesis, both start with N).  Whatever you do support the efforts of the groups trying to "recreate" the magic that was this game.  Maybe one of them will attract a sugar daddy to fund them for real.  But please stop pulling the good name of CoH into the mud by being the "crazy" commenter on all those other websites.  There is a difference between posting and harassing and I think some are starting to cross the line.

[/rant]

[P51mus]

Ya, there's an extremely high chance it's gone.  Still going to warn people about NCSoft games whenever I have an excuse to.  And I'll keep doing that unless they let CoH go to a company that can take care of it.

[JaguarX]

No.  His first article about the game was Oct 14th, 2009 about the Halloween Event that year.  His MMR column started Jan 27, 2010.  (Edit: Massively started it's coverage Oct 7, 2007.  Massively's first article ever on anything, in their archive, is Sept 27th, 2007)

And comments like this is exactly the crap he is talking about.  Your first assumption that he wasn't a "true believer", a Johnny come lately, a lookie-loo reporter, someone who wasn't a player simply because he stuck a pin in your hope balloon.  You are like someone in stage 4 grasping at faith healers, untested herbal treatments and an all fruit diet.

If you haven't read it yet, read the Gamastutra article about the closure of the game and the attempted buyout.  It shows how hopeless the situation is resurrecting the game, as it was, truly is.

------------------
[rant]

It's about time that Massively, which supported the game for years, not just the last few months as other sites did, if that, threw a bucket of cold water on the zealots who in some cases are unintentionally giving the image of anyone who played CoH in the end and supported the calls to save it a, pardon the expression, nutbar.

Everyone take a freaking step back.  Take a deep breath.  It's gone.  The game that we loved, and played, some of us including me for years (I date back to Aug 2004, pre Issue 2) is no more.  And no I'm not going to insert the dead parrot sketch here but in all honesty some of you are in as much denial as the clerk in that.  I'll support any super hero game that is closer to the feel of CoH than the two we currently have.  I support ICON and the pigg diving to find all the untapped resources the game has.  The custom maps people have shown using the list of map pieces and IDs.

But to crucify Eliot and Massively because they said what, 4+ months after the closure, needed to be said is downright petty and as narrow minded as the Westboro Baptist Church.  If someone disagrees with your POV they are evil, the enemy, a target.  I know first hand since my e-mail is public here as it was in the old forums.  I got my fair share of vitriol dripping hate mail because of my posts here but I didn't give a rat's behind because I felt that it was just a few bad apples, the extremists that every group end of having.

Hate NCSOFT as much as you want.  Put CoH on the altar to worship as the one true MMO.  Believe it was a conspiracy to prop up ArenaNet or Carbine or paying for a baseball team (they are 0-7 so far this year) or it was a Nexon plot (Nexon, Nemesis, both start with N).  Whatever you do support the efforts of the groups trying to "recreate" the magic that was this game.  Maybe one of them will attract a sugar daddy to fund them for real.  But please stop pulling the good name of CoH into the mud by being the "crazy" commenter on all those other websites.  There is a difference between posting and harassing and I think some are starting to cross the line.

[/rant]

basically.

[Captain Electric]

But please stop pulling the good name of CoH into the mud by being the "crazy" commenter on all those other websites.  There is a difference between posting and harassing and I think some are starting to cross the line.
[/rant]

Surely you mean mud wrestling. I do it in the name of justice. I always ask myself, would Statesman or Manticore (the characters) post this?

And then I click the post button. 

[Golden Girl]

Always ask yourself - what would Calvin Scott do?

[JanessaVR]

Always ask yourself - what would Calvin Scott do?

That traitor?  Hah, I betrayed him and turned him in.  We Loyalists from Powers Division ask a different question - what would Marcus Cole do?

All Hail the Emperor!   

[Tanklet]

But my main worry is this, by going to all these articles that may not agree with our cause and coming off as being THE community is doing nothing but giving them easy ammo against us. And it's not good for encouraging people to keep fighting or not give up. It looks like, "hey you dont agree with us. We can come to your site and give our opinion that is different than yours but come to our site and give different opinion, you will find trouble." Trust me on this, it sounds weird, but people gain respect by letting people choose and letting people have their say just as we like to have our say. And letting people have their say sometimes it will be different. How many articles have massively written "for the movement?" A few or more. If I wasnt a COX player or outside looking in I would have thought that Massively is showing favoritism towards the movement and Titan network. One article expressing a differing view is an opportunity. It gets people that may be on the fence or dont know about it coming to the site. But when people go over there angry in the name of the movement, and basically flaming the author, that is not a good look and describes exactly what the author said in his article and what some take it as a jab at us here. Main point, maybe it wasnt in agreement with the movement, and some words may be viewed a dig but dont go over there making those statements true. Ok so the author have no hope that COX will come back. So what? He probably aiming at those that share his view. Hell, even many here said it will be slim chance and some of those people are supposedly as hopeful as hope can get.

What happens when and if this thing do go large? Are we going to be consume all the time chasing down articles and opinions that don't fit with the movement instead of moving forward?

Honestly, from what I've seen ... and even to the point of this most recent Massively article, those of us in the community commenting to these threads are doing a bang up job of being fair, civil, and sincere.

Elliot was expecting a flame war, but doesn't look like he got one.

I understand your worry. However, I disagree in the mindset that the worry should be reason for inaction or waiting and seeing. That IMO is admitting defeat. Am I saying that CoH has any bigger chance of coming back? Nope. But it has no chance, if everyone simply took the stance of 'sit back and watch.'

This country (which I'm sure you know) was built on change, and revolution. It's what we do. If I don't like something, I complain, and send my complaints to the right channels until it's made right, or I'm tired of complaining. I'm not tired yet. As a consumer, we also have every right to represent ourselves, and our displeasure.

Now, do we have extremists? Yes. Do they do more harm than good oft times? Yes. But, from what I've seen, there are more of us with a level head on their shoulders than not, quite civily expressing opinion supported by facts, in a manner I find admirable.

[JaguarX]

Honestly, from what I've seen ... and even to the point of this most recent Massively article, those of us in the community commenting to these threads are doing a bang up job of being fair, civil, and sincere.

Elliot was expecting a flame war, but doesn't look like he got one.

I understand your worry. However, I disagree in the mindset that the worry should be reason for inaction or waiting and seeing. That IMO is admitting defeat. Am I saying that CoH has any bigger chance of coming back? Nope. But it has no chance, if everyone simply took the stance of 'sit back and watch.'

This country (which I'm sure you know) was built on change, and revolution. It's what we do. If I don't like something, I complain, and send my complaints to the right channels until it's made right, or I'm tired of complaining. I'm not tired yet. As a consumer, we also have every right to represent ourselves, and our displeasure.

Never said anything about inaction. What is it with either it has to be in your face all the time everywhere vs inaction? It's not a light switch.

What I'm saying is this. Of course we can express displeasure, respresent ourselves, and such but also at he same time while we have the right to do that, so do they. Many of us complained dearly on the forums about non hopefuls forcing their point of view down our throats, yet I think in a way many of us are doing the exact same thing with this point of view. All I'm saying just as much as we have a right to express our point of view others should be shown that same right. That is civil, which isnt seem to be the case in many cases, especially on other websites but at the same time, it dont seem to be welcomed here. I seen the reaction when an opinion is expressed like Eliot on this site. It sure isnt welcoming. But yet we expect other site to listen and respect our view. What I'm saying is if we expect people to respect our view all over other sites and media, we should do the same instead of flaming them and telling them to leave or asking that condescending question of "why are you here?" Yet, if I was to go on Massively comment section and ask, those that feel hope, "Then why are you here on an article that is talking about no hope?" It will be a problem. It's like as he described that we dont want to become.

[Ironwolf]

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
 
Voltaire

I have no problem with Eliot posting what he believes. I encourage it in fact, let's get past the fear and doubt and find the heart of the matter. The game is closed, we all agree on that. However, it is not a certainty that it has to remain so. It is a 100% fact that if we do nothing - it will stay gone.

We have 2 teams working on restoring a private server. We have 2 teams working on 2 new games based off the CoH style. We have another team working on getting the game pitched to Google - BY GOOGLE'S REQUEST. We have a panel of 6 top game developers all agreeing CoH shouldn't have closed - dammit!

Personally I think publicity is never bad.

[Manga]

You all probably know someone who a year after CoH launch was saying "That game is old, move on already, get something newer and shinier!"  This guy at Massively is one of those people.  Except now he's taking broader license with that because the game is much older now, and it's been closed down.

That's all it is.

[Segev]

No, it really isn't. This guy's written kindly and with a friendly ear about SaveCoH and its sibling projects. He's saying, not, "give up and shut up," but rather, "don't make a fool of yourself and make everybody who supports you look bad by being 'that guy' who won't shut up about it even when it's inappropriate." He's even more focusing on the point that we haven't REALLY got anything new to latch onto, and that leaping on this phantom hope like it's a certain life raft only makes everybody associated with this effort look pathetic and desperate.

He could be wrong, but he's not trying to tell people to give up. Just to not be visibly unrealistic in ways that embarrass everybody else associated.

Again, he could still be wrong. But he's not insulting people.

[JaguarX]

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it.
 
Voltaire

I have no problem with Eliot posting what he believes. I encourage it in fact, let's get past the fear and doubt and find the heart of the matter. The game is closed, we all agree on that. However, it is not a certainty that it has to remain so. It is a 100% fact that if we do nothing - it will stay gone.

We have 2 teams working on restoring a private server. We have 2 teams working on 2 new games based off the CoH style. We have another team working on getting the game pitched to Google - BY GOOGLE'S REQUEST. We have a panel of 6 top game developers all agreeing CoH shouldn't have closed - dammit!

Personally I think publicity is never bad.

Yes.

[The White Rager]

Frankly, I think he's right. It was a random comment, and I just knew we'd over-react. We always knew there were buyers for CoH. The problem was NCSoft's refusal to sell. Nothing wrong with looking for ways to continue to pressure them to sell the IP but - what he was describing? I was afraid of that.

[Nebularian]

Ya, there's an extremely high chance it's gone.  Still going to warn people about NCSoft games whenever I have an excuse to.  And I'll keep doing that unless they let CoH go to a company that can take care of it.

Now this I can get behind.

If nothing else, even if COH is gone forever, the saveCOH movement  SHOULD continue on.  Perhaps not only as a way to get COH back, but rather as a consumer effort to effect changes within the gaming community.   Simply to let the gaming companies know that we are not all lemmings following their lead.

[Triplash]

He could be wrong, but he's not trying to tell people to give up. Just to not be visibly unrealistic in ways that embarrass everybody else associated.

I agree with your take on it, and this quote sums it up nicely. So I'm not trying to single out Eliot or anyone else with this next statement, I'm just curious.

When a few of us start "throwing around" overzealous optimism, a reporter comes out within days with a prominent article about how that subgroup of players are embarassing the rest of us, and should dial it down a notch. But for roughly the last six months a few of us have been "throwing around" an endless stream of childish insults and bitter ranting anywhere they could type it. To my knowledge, nobody ever wrote a prominent article calling out that subgroup of players and accusing them of embarassing the rest of us.

What's up with that?

[damienray]

What's up with that?

Indeed, what's up with that?

[Segev]

I would argue that that sub-group is actually part of the larger sub-group - to the minds of article-writers - being called out for embarrassing the community as a whole. The sudden upsurge in unrealistic hope/expectations brings greater attention to the vitriolic childishness of others, in no small part because said vitriol bubbles up near and around those wild hopes, becoming, itself, more visible and further tainting the already somewhat wild-eyed, hope-filled comments.

[dwturducken]

Alright, look! (Cuz putting it that way makes you so receptive to what's coming next, right? )

Did we overreact to an off the cuff remark? Maybe. Did we run clamoring for hope where there was none? Maybe. Did it come at a time when we need a jolt, a shot of hope? Yes!

It's been more than four months since the game closed. I don't know how many people have left here, but I know that, in the last week, I've seen post from people who've seemed to be missing for a while. Maybe it goes nowhere, but, for a week, we were motivated and excited. Maybe NC$oft doesn't call Jack, but it looks like it's inspired us to start thinking and trying again.