Author Topic: Negative Article on Massively  (Read 43182 times)

JanessaVR

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2013, 12:43:26 AM »
I'm sorry, I don't really understand your post.  Could you re-state that, a bit clearer?   ???

Tanklet

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2013, 12:44:12 AM »
Ah I see how it could be taken as such.

But how is that, mostly replying to Tanklet, is much different from our end when saying "we should never give up hope, we should mail NCSoft capes and "stuff", We should contact Jack. Not even most posts about how people feel about this game is worded How I feel." It's how we should feel and how ncsoft dissed this community, and how ncsoft screwed us all, and how ncsoft did this to everyone. Even here is it rarely, I feel that NCSoft screwed me over.


Why is what he saying although opposite, telling us what we should do and not do, and such a big problem, when telling us what we should do and not do in the same manner but for us is not a problem and havent been taken as telling us what to feel and what to do?


That is why to me it's coming off as more hate because he disagree with the general consensus around here than actual hate that is he telling us what to do or not do. It seemed ok for that type of wording for those for us, but as soon as someone says something that may be opposite it's them trying to tell us what to feel and think. Looks like a double standard.

I can see your point.

Pardon what will be the following multiple use of one word ....

I can see how when we say we, we mean those of us who still fight.

And I can also see how when we see someone else use we in the opposite, it's taken differently
*******************

The only thing I can say to that, is (at least in my case) we're encouraging those of us still fighting and not telling those who aren't, that they should be.

As I see it, Elliot (in a more public fashion than ours) isn't encouraging ... he's quite the opposite.

Yes, I know it's like slicing hairs through a mandolin, but with any movement and effort that has such emotions attached to it as this one does ... this is what to expect...

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2013, 12:46:48 AM »
Okay... wait, didn't they already do a "get over it" article months ago?

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2013, 12:47:04 AM »
I'm sorry, I don't really understand your post.  Could you re-state that, a bit clearer?   ???

Your part ends with "Ah I see how that could be taken as such."

JanessaVR

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2013, 12:52:47 AM »
Your part ends with "Ah I see how that could be taken as such."
Okaaay...thanks for vaguing that up for me.

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2013, 01:08:12 AM »
I can see your point.

Pardon what will be the following multiple use of one word ....

I can see how when we say we, we mean those of us who still fight.

And I can also see how when we see someone else use we in the opposite, it's taken differently
*******************

The only thing I can say to that, is (at least in my case) we're encouraging those of us still fighting and not telling those who aren't, that they should be.

As I see it, Elliot (in a more public fashion than ours) isn't encouraging ... he's quite the opposite.

Yes, I know it's like slicing hairs through a mandolin, but with any movement and effort that has such emotions attached to it as this one does ... this is what to expect...

Of course. 

Also we have to expect, if not already know, that not everyone is on board with us. Right now, it's relatively small publicity. Not to mention, Titan Network and the people here are not the entire community. We are a part of the community but not THE community. Many out there that consider themselves part of the community are not with us here for various reasons, and when uses "we as a community" to me always meant the part of the community that they are a part of and not THE community or only here or even including people here. Many people of the community do agree with Eliot said. We should move on. Here, we wont. Many have, many are waiting to see COX come back and others dont give a crap. Many of those people played since beta, some more recent. Either way they are part of the COX community and have their own view and way of dealing with it.

I can see how his article may be a dig at us. But we must remember we are not the only ones of the COX community and thus everything about COX closing is not and probably shouldnt be taken as a dig directed towards us. But again, I see how it can be taken that way as this part of the community have to be visual and loud to reach the goal. The ones moving on, can simplely reach the goal by doing not a single thing if they chose to.

But my main worry is this, by going to all these articles that may not agree with our cause and coming off as being THE community is doing nothing but giving them easy ammo against us. And it's not good for encouraging people to keep fighting or not give up. It looks like, "hey you dont agree with us. We can come to your site and give our opinion that is different than yours but come to our site and give different opinion, you will find trouble." Trust me on this, it sounds weird, but people gain respect by letting people choose and letting people have their say just as we like to have our say. And letting people have their say sometimes it will be different. How many articles have massively written "for the movement?" A few or more. If I wasnt a COX player or outside looking in I would have thought that Massively is showing favoritism towards the movement and Titan network. One article expressing a differing view is an opportunity. It gets people that may be on the fence or dont know about it coming to the site. But when people go over there angry in the name of the movement, and basically flaming the author, that is not a good look and describes exactly what the author said in his article and what some take it as a jab at us here. Main point, maybe it wasnt in agreement with the movement, and some words may be viewed a dig but dont go over there making those statements true. Ok so the author have no hope that COX will come back. So what? He probably aiming at those that share his view. Hell, even many here said it will be slim chance and some of those people are supposedly as hopeful as hope can get.

What happens when and if this thing do go large? Are we going to be consume all the time chasing down articles and opinions that don't fit with the movement instead of moving forward?

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2013, 01:15:14 AM »
But my main worry is this, by going to all these articles that may not agree with our cause and coming off as being THE community is doing nothing but giving them easy ammo against us. And it's not good for encouraging people to keep fighting or not give up. It looks like, "hey you dont agree with us. We can come to your site and give our opinion that is different than yours but come to our site and give different opinion, you will find trouble." Trust me on this, it sounds weird, but people gain respect by letting people choose and letting people have their say just as we like to have our say. And letting people have their say sometimes it will be different.

From a more objective standpoint though, what I'm reading from that article isn't "Get over CoH." It's like we're being told to be good little sheep, forget what happened, and treat NCsoft like nothing ever happened. In our society, this is more or less what everyone expects to happen. Something that hurts a lot of people happens, the people flip out, they then lose interest and forget, and the 'bad guy' gets away with it to do the same thing to someone else. I'm using 'bad guy' loosely here, because I'm not accusing NCsoft of spite.

But ironically the kind of short-term attention span that Eliot is 'expecting' of us, is exactly the kind that prevents change from ever happening in society. It's almost like a disguised call to complacency.

dwturducken

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2013, 01:17:35 AM »
I don't think that there is anything he says that's precisely wrong. I wouldn't even dispute any of his points. My Friday night group misses the game, but none of them are here. A couple check savecoh.com from time to time, but the info there doesn't seem to be as "fresh" as it is here.

That said, what I see is just Eliot getting irritated by the innundation he received from people here. Maybe he is one of the people who just gets worn out when surrounded by "too much" enthusiasm. Whatever the case, I will continue to read the column, but I won't be sending him "tips." I don't think he's "joined the other side" or that he's not still friendly, but he's moved on.

(I was not one of the ones who e-mailed him. I'm not saying that to try to say "it wasn't my fault," like some 10 year old who got the dog so riled up that he knocked a lamp over. I was waiting for some kind of word from our resident media types and those who have methods of contacting Jack. I'm right there with any call to action, but, when one of the aforementioned cooler heads says, "hang on while I try this thing first," I'm willing to wait.)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Surelle

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2013, 01:20:28 AM »
I just wanted to throw in here that there *has* been an official response from Jack Emmert on one of his game's forums, according to a Massively poster.  I will quote it here:




This is the official word from Cryptic-Studios community manager Trailturtle on the game's official boards:


"Since both Jack Emmert and I have been getting questions about what he said at PAX East, we had a quick email conversation to figure out what went down (I wasn't at the panel).

Jack's got an emotional attachment to CoH, and when he said he'd take a call from NCSoft, it was an off-the-cuff remark born from his love of the game. If NCSoft gave him a call, he'd be happy to talk to them, but that's all that there is -- there aren't any plans at Cryptic or PWE to bring back City of Heroes. There's no plan, just a wistful hope that it gets another issue someday".

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2013, 01:22:25 AM »
Sheesh, he would've been better off keeping that quiet. NCsoft won't call now, even if they were slightly considering it. He's let them off the hook.

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2013, 01:32:08 AM »
From a more objective standpoint though, what I'm reading from that article isn't "Get over CoH." It's like we're being told to be good little sheep, forget what happened, and treat NCsoft like nothing ever happened. In our society, this is more or less what everyone expects to happen. Something that hurts a lot of people happen, the people flip out, they then lose interest and forget, and the 'bad guy' gets away with it to do the same thing to someone else. I'm using 'bad guy' loosely here, because I'm not accusing NCsoft of spite.

But ironically the kind of short-term attention span that Eliot is 'expecting' of us, is exactly the kind that prevents change from ever happening in society. It's almost like a disguised call to complacency.
Exactly.

But overall what choices do people have? They have on one end, the corporation that will take them everything they are worth and wont give a blink of remorse, then on the other side you have angry rally with us or against us people or seemingly so especially to people that may not be as enthused. many dont like being ripped off, but on the other hand, they dont want to be surrounded by a group that is "excited" that may turn on em because they dont share that excitement. What do many people do instead? Forget about it, do nothing, move on and just accept it as that is the way the world work.  We can be that way out.

W

Me personally I want the community back again. THE community. So far it seems so divided. You have people here, you have people that moved on, you have people that don't like Titan, you have people that are indifferent, you have people that chose the games, and you have people not sure what or who to choose. Of course everyone wont come back, especially the ones that despise Titan but let them despise Titan. But lets face it, when the project Zs come out, which will be a couple more years, who do we want playing? Only COHTitan members? As much as I like you guys, I wouldn't mind having more especially in a MMO game. Or are we doing this for THE community? We wont get the community back by being only inviting to people that share our hope. Unless that is what we are going for, the 20,000 odd maybe more maybe less that are here and forgetting the rest of the community. I hope that the game(s) can go beyond the original community and add players from all over to THE community. But we have to understand not all of them played COX and even care if COX come back or not but if we jump on them and bite us, they'll remember Titan as the ones that jump on them and bite them for speaking their mind like every other bloke on the internet and probably wont want anything to do with anything Titan push Plan Z or anything they endorse if they was thinking about it.

Perfidus

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2013, 01:33:34 AM »
I give him credit for waiting until now to say something like this. A lot of people were singing this tune on September 1st.

But it'd have been much better off if he just left it alone and didn't try to poo in people's cereal just because he personally has given up.

Surelle

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #32 on: April 11, 2013, 01:35:10 AM »
Sheesh, he would've been better off keeping that quiet. NCsoft won't call now, even if they were slightly considering it. He's let them off the hook.

If they were going to sell, they would have sold to Bryan Clayton and crew right before the shut down.  Did you read Matt Miller's Gamasutra interview that posted today?  I seriously don't believe NCSoft will ever call anyone of its own volition.

They'll have to endure consistent reminders about their horrible business practices to the point where their future launches are negatively impacted, for anyone else to be able to contact them and get a successful buyout onto the bargaining table.  They have to want to shed their bad reputation even more than they want to bury their IPs for us to ever have a chance of getting that IP back in a lawful fashion.

dwturducken

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2013, 02:17:16 AM »
I give him credit just for saying it. He's been a friend, so this couldn't have come easily for him.

I'm curious just exactly how many emails he got from outside his usual contacts list...
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2013, 02:44:20 AM »
I give him credit just for saying it. He's been a friend, so this couldn't have come easily for him.

I'm curious just exactly how many emails he got from outside his usual contacts list...
yuup.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2013, 02:51:55 AM »
But it'd have been much better off if he just left it alone and didn't try to poo in people's cereal just because he personally has given up.

There's been a rather disturbing trend I've been seeing in society lately that I can only describe as an anti-naivety movement. At first it just seemed like it was about religious issues, but more I've been seeing it spreading to ANY kind of hope for ANYTHING that the calculated odds don't favor. It was happening on the official forums quite a bit. Having hope for saving CoH was equated to believing in the Easter Bunny, and hope was described as a cancer that needed to be extinguished. Since that time, I've been seeing it spring up randomly in all sorts of internet communities. It's rather frightening.

FlyingCarcass

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2013, 02:58:46 AM »
Yeah, the official forums got downright toxic towards the end. It was as if someone gave the Talons of Vengeance keyboards.  :P

JaguarX

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2013, 03:06:54 AM »
Yeah, the official forums got downright toxic towards the end. It was as if someone gave the Talons of Vengeance keyboards.  :P

Yeah it did get a bit chaotic. As if people just took off the gloves and reasoning and started swinging at everyone and anything.

Kemphler

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2013, 03:09:58 AM »
There is a reason why I tended to avoid all but the red-name posts near the end on the forums.
"I intend to live forever, or die trying." - Groucho Marx

Sajaana

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Re: Negative Article on Massively
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2013, 03:27:12 AM »
He got annoyed at all the emails and tweets about the Cryptic thing.  So he lashed out in the form of a blog post.