"Future of Online Games" - PAXEast video from MMORPG.com

[dwturducken]

If this should be in "General," since it's more about the industry than any one game, someone can mod-move it, but the number of developers from the various games is worth the watch.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/3005

[Blondeshell]

That was a good panel. Quite a variety of backgrounds and points of view with developers of Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, Neverwinter, EverQuest, Star Citizen, and Elder Scrolls.

I especially liked the question about if MMOs should ever be shut down, specifically referring to City of Heroes, and the guy from EverQuest was emphatic about how that should never have happened. It was hard to tell exactly what Jack said after that, but it sounded something like having NCsoft pick up the phone and call him to get CoH back. I'm not sure how serious he was about that comment (most likely was just ear candy chit-chat for the people in the room), but he did seem to slouch a lot during the panel, almost like he wasn't terribly excited about being there.

I also thought it was interesting that EVE Online never got mentioned in passing about being a long-running sandbox MMO.

[dwturducken]

There's a link down in the comments to the PAXEast Twitch feed for that day. I didn't post that one, because the content of the original link doesn't start until 6 hours and 40 minutes in. The sound is supposed to be better. I'm watching that one, now.

[JaguarX]

They made some awesome points in that vid. Especially with marketing, updates, community, and etc.

And the Everquest dude made the best point imo about COH followed by the guy next to him.

Side note: if the cat wasnt out of the bag prior to this it sure as hell out of the bag now.

[dwturducken]

I was kinda blown away by all the love for CoH, four months on. Emmert even said to the guy running Wildstar, "Tell NCSoft to call me." The guy's a world class douche, but that kinda shocked me.

[DarkCurrent]

Jack Emmert:  Savior of CoH???

Issue 25... Statesman Lives!

Joking aside, that's the one scenario I can see in which NCSoft and Jack could both restore their reputations and that CoX could be restored via some sort of sale.

[r00tb0ySlim]

If this should be in "General," since it's more about the industry than any one game, someone can mod-move it, but the number of developers from the various games is worth the watch.

http://www.mmorpg.com/showVideo.cfm/videoId/3005

That was a good panel. Quite a variety of backgrounds and points of view with developers of Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, Neverwinter, EverQuest, Star Citizen, and Elder Scrolls.

I especially liked the question about if MMOs should ever be shut down, specifically referring to City of Heroes, and the guy from EverQuest was emphatic about how that should never have happened. It was hard to tell exactly what Jack said after that, but it sounded something like having NCsoft pick up the phone and call him to get CoH back. I'm not sure how serious he was about that comment (most likely was just ear candy chit-chat for the people in the room), but he did seem to slouch a lot during the panel, almost like he wasn't terribly excited about being there.

The CoH question is asked @ 32:52 in the video if you guys want to jump right to it and I like how Jeremy says there is no reason not to keep them alive (MMO's) unless......it's on the business side.  I thought Jeremy was going out on a limb for a second with the first part of his comment, but then he remembered who he works for and qualified/justified accordingly 

[General Idiot]

Jack Emmert:  Savior of CoH???

Issue 25... Statesman Lives!

Joking aside, that's the one scenario I can see in which NCSoft and Jack could both restore their reputations and that CoX could be restored via some sort of sale.

He would be far from the first comic book character to be either resurrected or retconned back to life. I'm not sure putting the game back under Jack would be the best idea, though. The man has some odd ideas about game design. Though, the core gameplay of CoH was at least in part his doing, so he can't be all bad ideas. Certainly infinitely better than no game at all.

[downix]

Knowing Jack, he's serious. And my guess is for three reasons:

1) immediate access to the modified NCSoft source, allowing him to bugfix in the other Cryptic titles
2) another game which they can make more money from
3) Ressurect Statesman, because he's got that big of an ego

[Kaos Arcanna]

I don't think NcSoft would ever do it, but I do think that Cryptic would probably like getting access to some of the tech that Paragon developed.

And if COH came back, perhaps Cryptic could use their newer engine to make COH better ...

The only thing is ... and this may sound weird to post on this forum ... I'm not sure they'd want to keep both COH and CO alive, and I would hate
to see CO die. Not because I think that CO is a better game, but because I know people who really love the game and I would hate to see them go
through what we already have. And there is some fun things in CO that I have enjoyed and would miss.

[The Fifth Horseman]

Or perhaps he thinks it would look good on his resume.

Or - just maybe - he actually cares about something he helped create. No matter how big a jerk someone is, he's still nominally human.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Or perhaps he thinks it would look good on his resume.

Or - just maybe - he actually cares about something he helped create. No matter how big a jerk someone is, he's still nominally human.

And just by saying this he's garnered some goodwill for himself and Cryptic at a cheap price. ('Cause I'm sure he'd be stunned if NCSoft said, "Sure. We'll sell it to you.")

[DarkCurrent]

If it were in his thought process I would imagine a fusion of the 2 worlds.  Harness the superior aspects of both games.  CoX with the Nemesis System would be a fun thing to pull off as an example.  CO with access to all of CoX's costumes and auras.

Not sure if the Champions IP is open to the sort of world fusing I'm thinking, but if both Paragon and Millenium City were on the same world both games could be expanded immensely with minimum amount of creative effort.  Of course the entire backbone of the systems would have to be worked together, or one would have to be recoded for the other engine.  I imagine there are similarities given they came from the same original developer.

I don't think NcSoft would ever do it, but I do think that Cryptic would probably like getting access to some of the tech that Paragon developed.

And if COH came back, perhaps Cryptic could use their newer engine to make COH better ...

The only thing is ... and this may sound weird to post on this forum ... I'm not sure they'd want to keep both COH and CO alive, and I would hate
to see CO die. Not because I think that CO is a better game, but because I know people who really love the game and I would hate to see them go
through what we already have. And there is some fun things in CO that I have enjoyed and would miss.

[Aggelakis]

1) immediate access to the modified NCSoft source, allowing him to bugfix in the other Cryptic titles

Of course the entire backbone of the systems would have to be worked together, or one would have to be recoded for the other engine.  I imagine there are similarities given they came from the same original developer.

Both of these are EXTREMELY unlikely. CoH was their first attempt. Its engine sucks (code-wise - they were all noobs), and all updates to it were terrible hacks. (From the devs' mouths.) CO and all their newer games are on a new engine (updates to those games are either terrible hacks or not as terrible hacks). They would have to be recoded entirely to do any kind of bugfixing (downix) or combining (DarkCurrent).

[Kaos Arcanna]

If it were in his thought process I would imagine a fusion of the 2 worlds.  Harness the superior aspects of both games.  CoX with the Nemesis System would be a fun thing to pull off as an example.  CO with access to all of CoX's costumes and auras.

Not sure if the Champions IP is open to the sort of world fusing I'm thinking, but if both Paragon and Millenium City were on the same world both games could be expanded immensely with minimum amount of creative effort.  Of course the entire backbone of the systems would have to be worked together, or one would have to be recoded for the other engine.  I imagine there are similarities given they came from the same original developer.

Well, let's see. We'd have Paragon City on the East Coast, Millennium City in the Midwest (Detroit), and then we'd need a third super hero game centered on the West Coast.

[Brou]

Many of the Paragon devs are already at Cryptic. It would seem like the perfect lineup of circumstances.

Except that NCSoft owns it all, or so much that "pretty please with some money on top" may not be enough.

I can certainly see the CoH setting being a bronze dagger to end the perpetual silver age of CO, but Champions already has its own lore in sourcebooks that is as gruesome as CoH can be. I would rather see CO grow into its darker side with its own lore.

[dwturducken]

I'm not sure I put much stock in it, but it was a hell of a pleasant surprise to hear him say it.

[Maressa]

Went to this panel. It was the best one I attended. And after the City of Heroes question I just wanted to jump up and hug all the panelists. I actually got some time to talk to Dave Georgeson (Everquest) and Jack Emmert both. It was pretty awesome talking to two guys who are so passionate about what they do.

[UruzSix]

Or - just maybe - he actually cares about something he helped create. No matter how big a jerk someone is, he's still nominally human.

Have you been to Champions lately?

Again, I have no idea if Jack is serious, but bringing City back with an actual dev staff would, um, not go over very well with CO's playerbase - and for very good reasons.

[Lightslinger]

Have you been to Champions lately?

Again, I have no idea if Jack is serious, but bringing City back with an actual dev staff would, um, not go over very well with CO's playerbase - and for very good reasons.

Its very possible that after NWN launches more of the dev staff at Crpytic can spread around to the other games again. Even if CoH was purchased with only the intention of maintenance mode for a while, I'd personally be ok with that.

[UruzSix]

Its very possible that after NWN launches more of the dev staff at Crpytic can spread around to the other games again.

Cryptic had an open window to up the budget on CO once we migrated over and bought stuff, and little came of it. I don't think CO is closing down anytime soon, but my optimism on getting more staff post-NWN is in pretty bad shape. Especially since there's rumors of another new Cryptic project in the works.

[dwturducken]

Wouldn't be surprised if they have something more cooking. I could swear I once heard either one of those self-help guys or succeed-in-business guys say something along the lines of, "If you're not moving forward, you're moving backward." It would seem, though, since they appear to have a little more autonomy than we've heard Paragon had, they could bring on some additional staff...

(I shoulda looked here first. The "game designer" position could indicate a new project on the horizon.)

[Mistress Urd]

That was a good panel. Quite a variety of backgrounds and points of view with developers of Wildstar, Guild Wars 2, Neverwinter, EverQuest, Star Citizen, and Elder Scrolls.

I especially liked the question about if MMOs should ever be shut down, specifically referring to City of Heroes, and the guy from EverQuest was emphatic about how that should never have happened. It was hard to tell exactly what Jack said after that, but it sounded something like having NCsoft pick up the phone and call him to get CoH back. I'm not sure how serious he was about that comment (most likely was just ear candy chit-chat for the people in the room), but he did seem to slouch a lot during the panel, almost like he wasn't terribly excited about being there.

I also thought it was interesting that EVE Online never got mentioned in passing about being a long-running sandbox MMO.

Why would they want to mention a game that worked with its players and grew their game? Its certainly on the minds of the devs of Pathfinder Online.

Chris Roberts most definitely played some EVE online based on his death of a spaceman blog. If Star Citizen ends up competing directly with EVE it will probably be an interesting competition. It would probably do better if its not EVE and being more player skill based than just gear/character skilling.

[Surelle]

Thank you so much for this link, but I cannot for the life of me figure out exactly what Jack said in either sentence.  Even with the sound blasting up, it's too muffled.

I tend to think it was a bit of a joke, though, with how everyone laughed afterward.  And he looked a little sheepish, like "yo, they closed my game down."  After all, it was Jack's game first.

I wish he'd been serious and that there was some forward motion about CoH, though.  That would be amazing.  But I can't help but think it was a humorous passing comment and nothing more.  If someone can actually get a clearer transcription, that would be awesome.

Hey, has anyone posted on the CO forums or PM'd Jack via those forums to see what he really meant?  Strike while the iron's hot and all that; we'd be no worse for it than we are now, no matter what he says in response, but at least we'd know.  I tend to think a public forum post over at STO or CO might get more of a response, especially if other people joined in and wanted to know, too, but anything is better than us just doing nothing and letting a potential opportunity pass by.

[Samuraiko]

I actually just sent a link to this video to Eliot Lefebvre (the regular Massively columnist for COH and now for CO), calling his attention to the response about the closure of games and Jack's comment. Should be interesting to see if Massively is able to get more info on this for an article.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

[Surelle]

I actually just sent a link to this video to Eliot Lefebvre (the regular Massively columnist for COH and now for CO), calling his attention to the response about the closure of games and Jack's comment. Should be interesting to see if Massively is able to get more info on this for an article.

Michelle
aka
Samuraiko/Dark_Respite

Wow, what a great idea!

Maybe I can scavange up my old CO forum name.  I only played the game for a week or so during launch, but now that it's F2P, I'd think my forum account would always be on....

[Surelle]

Rats, my CO forum login still works, but I'm not allowed to post.

Is it only subscribers that are allowed to post there?

Does anyone have an active, paying CO account that would like to ask Jack about his http://da.twitch.tv/pax/b/380836937    7:14 comments concerning CoH?  This recording is much clearer than the original link.

[dwturducken]

Does Jack respond? The CM (TrailTurtle) and BanHammer (can't find his/her name, off hand) seem to be doing the posting that I was seeing.

Slightly tangential: I'm very disappointed with myself for not recognizing Chris Roberts' name before he was formally introduced. I've played all the Wing Commander games, and many of the spinoffs.

[General Idiot]

Its very possible that after NWN launches more of the dev staff at Crpytic can spread around to the other games again. Even if CoH was purchased with only the intention of maintenance mode for a while, I'd personally be ok with that.

Personally if it was up to me and Cryptic managed to get NCSoft to sell CoH, I'd put both games in maintenence mode and work on a CoH 2, or CO 2. Take the best parts from both games, update them a little with lessons learned since both were made, and release one new game that has both worlds in it. After all, they both have interdimensional portals. There's a ready-made reason for them to be able to coexist in one game. :p

[JWBullfrog]

Or - just maybe - he actually cares about something he helped create. No matter how big a jerk someone is, he's still nominally human.

COH was his (and others of course) baby. I cannot think of anybody who would put in that much work on a project and not want it to continue. That would be a bit like Paul McCartney looking at Revolver  and saying "that old bit of rubbish? shred it."
 
I'm not saying he's mister perfect but he is still human.

[ukaserex]

I realize that there were at least several players that didn't care much for the way Jack handled some things with CoH. However, in retrospect, wasn't ED a good idea?

The problem, as I see it, is the idea of the same studio running two super-hero IPs. As Aggelakis stated, CoH is running some pretty ancient stuff. However, who knows? Maybe if Cryptic can get the IP to CoH, then they can roll out a third title, using CoH as the model.

However, our current reality is still a waiting game. I've a feeling the Missing Worlds Media will get theirs off the ground before anything else happens with the CoH title - but, I hope I'm wrong.

[Blondeshell]

[Captain Electric]

Thank you SO much Blondeshell.

I love Chris Roberts, I really do. Huge fan. But when he blurted out and started going on a speel, all I could think about was what Statesman had just said. All I wanted to hear was Statesman continue talking.

I don't think Chris really heard Jack Emmert. If he had, he would have been like, "ORLY?" I think Chris was sitting there thinking about what he wanted to say, and jumped in when he heard the first quiet moment. It's the one moment in my life when I didn't appreciate Chris Roberts.

In some parallel universe, I'm sure you could just hear the record-player needle screech to a halt, and the panel turned to Statesman and asked him to elaborate. And inside that universe, there is little to no doubt about what Jack meant between the lines.

That universe is just a little bit cooler than this one, maybe a lot.

[Thunder Glove]

COH was his (and others of course) baby. I cannot think of anybody who would put in that much work on a project and not want it to continue. That would be a bit like Paul McCartney looking at Revolver  and saying "that old bit of rubbish? shred it."
 
I'm not saying he's mister perfect but he is still human.

Not only that, but CoH's lore ultimately has its roots in Jack and his friends' tabletop RP sessions.  Statesman is his character and Paragon City is his world in a way that Defender and Millennium City are not (having been created long before CoH ever existed), and he may just want them back.

[Lightslinger]

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,8176.0.html

I've started a Call to Action regarding Jack's comments. In what i'm calling "Phase 1" we are focusing on getting the word out to the press, Cryptic, & NCSoft that we support what Jack said and try to urge this thing along. I need some help in getting Phase 2: Phase Harder ready to launch.

I've never done one of these before so any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

[Maressa]

Finally my article on the panel has gone live! http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Everquest-Next/news/Looking-to-the-Future-of-MMOs---A-PAX-Panel

Oh, and I watched the video...if you hear someone in the audience cheering when CoH is mentioned that's me. I may have been somewhat excited by the question and the answers.

[eabrace]

Looking forward to reading that when I get home (blocked at work - but that doesn't stop me from posting a Titan re-tweet.)

[dwturducken]

I think I recall the excited outcry.

So, have you seen what Lightslinger is working on? I'm not gonna run over and out ya, but you might find yourself at the top of his Rolodex. There's a bit of buzz around getting someone like yourself interested in pressing Jack for further thoughts on the matter of CoH, since it appears he had more that he wanted to say before Roberts took the focus to the other side of the lectern.

[Lightslinger]

I think I recall the excited outcry.

So, have you seen what Lightslinger is working on? I'm not gonna run over and out ya, but you might find yourself at the top of his Rolodex. There's a bit of buzz around getting someone like yourself interested in pressing Jack for further thoughts on the matter of CoH, since it appears he had more that he wanted to say before Roberts took the focus to the other side of the lectern.

Yep, getting Jack to clarify and hopefully further discuss this is one of the main goals of Bring CoH Home.

[Lily Barclay]

Its very possible that after NWN launches more of the dev staff at Crpytic can spread around to the other games again. Even if CoH was purchased with only the intention of maintenance mode for a while, I'd personally be ok with that.

To be nit picky because this is one of my pet peeves.

NWN= Neverwinter Nights, Bioware's old game

NWO= Neverwinter Online, Cryptic's new title. Also can be abbreviated just NW.

NWN was a great game and all, but it isn't the same one. 

[General Idiot]

Amusingly, it shows up as Neverwinter Nights Online in precisely one place that I know of - in the friend list if you're playing STO or CO, that's what it displays as if a friend is playing it. Everywhere else as far as I'm aware, it's just Neverwinter. They don't even put the Online after it.

[dwturducken]

I persist using NWO because I find it funny that it looks like a pro wrestling "federation" name.

[JaguarX]

I persist using NWO because I find it funny that it looks like a pro wrestling "federation" name.

Or famous wrestling stable. 

[dwturducken]

I don't actually watch wrestling to know the distinction... 

[sorinkon]

I don't think NcSoft would ever do it, but I do think that Cryptic would probably like getting access to some of the tech that Paragon developed.

And if COH came back, perhaps Cryptic could use their newer engine to make COH better ...

The only thing is ... and this may sound weird to post on this forum ... I'm not sure they'd want to keep both COH and CO alive, and I would hate
to see CO die. Not because I think that CO is a better game, but because I know people who really love the game and I would hate to see them go
through what we already have. And there is some fun things in CO that I have enjoyed and would miss.

yes but if you have played the game the graphics on CO are horrible the costume design is not that good and in fact i dont think champions online would die just because of city of heroes they would prolly partener up and make CO MUCH better

[JaguarX]

yes but if you have played the game the graphics on CO are horrible the costume design is not that good and in fact i dont think champions online would die just because of city of heroes they would prolly partener up and make CO MUCH better

Meh i dont thing the graphics of CO are that bad. DIfferent and more like a comic drawing but dont think it's terrible. There are certain aspects of the art work I like better in CO than COX. Like the facial expresssions and movements. Which I didnt notice much until I caught my Nemesis wince when I defeated it. Instead of the botox overdose faces and floppy ragdoll stuff in COX, as comical as it looked, wasnt realistic on bit, not to mention the mitts.

I think some features between the two games could make an awesome game. But I personally like a lot of stuff over on CO better than I did in COX. Although I wouldnt mind COX type storylines and branches for leveling in CO. Or take some of the COX face models, and put it with CO face sliders, then awesome stuff.

But personal taste personal taste. There are some people who think Picasso, Da Vinci and Monet art is over rated junk  while others would give their left lung kidney and first born to have one in their house. Personal taste preference.