Author Topic: Joint press!  (Read 9643 times)

Rae

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Illusionss

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2013, 06:01:02 AM »
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 06:15:07 AM by Illusionss »

downix

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2013, 06:38:58 AM »
Well, no denying the truth of that. What I question is the assertion that people want no progression from what CoX was, or the inference that we should not want any progressing because that is somehow disloyal to CoX. CoX was a fine game - understatement - and its still near and dear to our hearts. BUT. If we cannot have that game back, why not progress? Instead of staying the same, let's make CoX 2.0. Let's have fingers that move, let's have hair that moves, let's have all the bells and whistles we can get.

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People are entitled to their opinions. Facts don't back them up, but hey, opinions, everyone has them.

Lightslinger

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2013, 01:22:08 PM »
Said this on the MWM forums, but I'll repeat it here...

H&V was presented as very unprofessional here. Free speech, say you what you want, its your project, I get all that, but its just the facts.

What I saw in this article:

TPP sounds like a professional studio.

H&V sounds like a spiteful, spurned fanboy.

H&V might want to work on how they present their work in the future. I know I'm a nobody in the scheme of Plan Z, but I do think I represent what a lot of "nobodies" might read into that article and I can definitely say if I was picking a horse to back it definitely wouldn't be H&V.

Illusionss

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2013, 06:26:36 PM »
Treading very carefully here, upon reading the article it became clearer to me why the split actually happened.

I still say that it happened at all is a disaster. Its a good idea to not let one's anger show in public though, and altho we [or most of us] are probably in fact still angry and distressed, TPP presented a 'we're moving on' attitude that I believe will serve them well in the long run.

The Fifth Horseman

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2013, 12:57:24 PM »
H&V was presented as very unprofessional here. Free speech, say you what you want, its your project, I get all that, but its just the facts.
(...)
H&V sounds like a spiteful, spurned fanboy.
That's hardly new to me. H&V has always presented themselves as such, beginning with the fashion in which they have split off.
We were heroes. We were villains. At the end of the world we all fought as one. It's what we did that defines us.
The end occurred pretty much as we predicted: all servers redlining until midnight... and then no servers to go around.

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JaguarX

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2013, 03:18:24 PM »
This shows what I was saying about public relation early on. Perception of words. TTP seems to have it well and seems to be viewed as professional.
But, like any media and opinion I take it as how someone feels and view the situation. We all have opinions like everyone had an exit hole. In the end it's still an exit hole. But imagine the trouble if it wasn't there.  The body would be full of crap.

Rae

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Captain Electric

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2013, 11:51:20 PM »
Gah! Rae!  ;D

Starting a new thread may have been better than a necro. I just spent the last few minutes reading the beginning of the thread thinking... "Great, same old bickering crap that was going on a few months ago..."  :gonk:

downix

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2013, 12:01:31 AM »
Gah! Rae!  ;D

Starting a new thread may have been better than a necro. I just spent the last few minutes reading the beginning of the thread thinking... "Great, same old bickering crap that was going on a few months ago..."  :gonk:
Well, our studio director *is* a former zombie/dark mastermind....

Captain Electric

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #10 on: May 23, 2013, 12:38:29 AM »
I loved this part in the comments:

Quote
Josh B: I am currenlty on the Lore staff for MWM and I can say THIS!

I have currently spent hte last 48 hours literally in front of my computer (yes even passed out in my chair), Chugging 2 liters till my acid reflux pain nearly blinded me and chugging away on content. I have been doing this at least once a week along a more 'reasonable' writing schedule since January, and there are plenty of other writers besides me. Just wait for the Kickstarter and watch us do what we do.

NathanielDownes: I would chastise you, but I'm guilty of doing the same.
:)

Personally my biggest preference is with Heroes and Villains, not because of any politics, but because of the themes and gameplay it's going to have. Which is EXACTLY how I wish everyone would "pick their game", whether that's one of them or both, the same way you'd pick a game at the store or on Steam.

Now as for competition between the two games? HECK YEAH I hope there's competition between the two games. I'm sorry, but that's how great entertainment works, just ask Marvel and DC, or Fox and Disney, or go back in time and ask Paragon Studios/CoH and Cryptic/CO. I hope these two games both try to out-do each other, because they'll both be better for it and their fans will be better off.

Now, at the same time, there's healthy competition and there's unhealthy competition. Marvel and DC have collaborated for crossovers. Fox and Disney are thinking about collaborating so that their Marvel movies can share the same cinematic universe. However, one place where we haven't seen healthy competition is video game publishers, especially MMORPG publishers. Over the last two years we've discovered (if you've been reading the news) that shills aren't myths, that people are actually hired to go into other games forums and spread misinformation and negative comments. Of course, what we've ended up with is a kind of mutually assured loss where everyone makes everyone look bad. This isn't what the fans want. It's also just dumb, and proves what dinosaurs big publishers are. And we know what happened to the dinosaurs.

If you think you can do better than NCSoft, prove it. Find ways to compete which each other, find ways to help each other (and this niche market) thrive.

downix

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #11 on: May 23, 2013, 02:00:24 AM »
Well said CE, well said!

JaguarX

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #12 on: May 23, 2013, 02:28:10 AM »
I loved this part in the comments:
 :)

Personally my biggest preference is with Heroes and Villains, not because of any politics, but because of the themes and gameplay it's going to have. Which is EXACTLY how I wish everyone would "pick their game", whether that's one of them or both, the same way you'd pick a game at the store or on Steam.

Now as for competition between the two games? HECK YEAH I hope there's competition between the two games. I'm sorry, but that's how great entertainment works, just ask Marvel and DC, or Fox and Disney, or go back in time and ask Paragon Studios/CoH and Cryptic/CO. I hope these two games both try to out-do each other, because they'll both be better for it and their fans will be better off.

Now, at the same time, there's healthy competition and there's unhealthy competition. Marvel and DC have collaborated for crossovers. Fox and Disney are thinking about collaborating so that their Marvel movies can share the same cinematic universe. However, one place where we haven't seen healthy competition is video game publishers, especially MMORPG publishers. Over the last two years we've discovered (if you've been reading the news) that shills aren't myths, that people are actually hired to go into other games forums and spread misinformation and negative comments. Of course, what we've ended up with is a kind of mutually assured loss where everyone makes everyone look bad. This isn't what the fans want. It's also just dumb, and proves what dinosaurs big publishers are. And we know what happened to the dinosaurs.

If you think you can do better than NCSoft, prove it. Find ways to compete which each other, find ways to help each other (and this niche market) thrive.


Yup.


Competition is good.

I mean look at the super hero MMO choices now. Not much competition, and thus less attention to details when building the games and not striving to be great or to make it a world wide known game. No one is really pushing that envelope right now. It's like it's side projects. Now look at when a fantasy game is developed. The bad ones drop off fast. Competition is fierce, if not a bit stale from lack of innovation right now, but the standards are higher. I dont even like fantasy much but I noticed the ones that make it usually have good looks, good environment, and depth of stories and plenty to do. Super hero MMOs, the stories are ok, not much content over all in compare, but I do see great potential, yet no superhero game is the flagship or being treated like flagship. It's like in the stable all the fantasy games come first, get the attention, get the funds even when losing money, and updates. Super hero games get something if something happens to be left over if anything. It's a side project. All it will take is for one company, or independent studio, or person to make the super hero game their crown jewel and watch it go far.

There are many super hero mmo players out there and many are just waiting for a decent game where someone gives a crap about it while delivering the good stuff. COX could of been that flasgship for a small studio but unfortunately it was low priority to the powers that be when it came down to it. How did WoW get big? It wasnt over night. They made it their flasgship took a risk and won. How do these other games get millions of players even when they are cookie cutter? The company treats the game like it means something and people go. But then you have potentially good games like CO, while probably wont close but it definately wotn grow because it's in a proverbial maintance mode already. If in three years they put NW in maintance mode, someone is probably going to get fired as it's viewed as unacceptable for a fantasy game. But it's ok for a super hero mmo.

We need a company or studio or who ever to change that. All they have to do is build one great one and keep it, let people know that THIS is the game to play, and watch the the corporations try to jump on the band wagon faster than a drunkard can down a bottle of grey goose. Even outside super hero mmos, look at the other game sites and read the complaints. Many is about lack of customization, lack of teaming, lack of community. COX had that, but those players did not know it existed and or didnt want anything to do with NCSoft. Now if one come along with those features, vast amount of stuff to do, difficulty level for as many player's style as you can, aka easy mode for those that may not be 23 hours a day fueld by mountain dew gamers, and something super hard for those 23 hours a day fueld by mountain dew players and of course difficulty in between. Add that with customization, having something for the team to do while being welcoming people who may not be social bugs (meaning try not to make soloing meh speed but make teaming a super fast way to level.

 A little teaming bonus is good, it's incentive but COX got carried away.), and try not to team gate stuff. If someone think they can solo the toughest baddest task force in the game, let them. Of course a message letting people know that grabbing a friend or two is highly suggested but shouldnt be mandatory at all. Especially in a super hero game. Imagine in a Batman movie if Batman had to call up 7 super heroes everytime he wanted to take on the joker? Makes for a dull movie and makes Batman look like a weak super hero especially if he have to wait around for 30 minutes before most show up, and wait another 15 minutes waiting for that last one  to get there because "it requires 8."

And last note-I think the Nemesis system was brilliant concept in CO. But if someone put some polish and a little finish on it...

Triplash

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #13 on: May 23, 2013, 02:06:02 PM »
Marvel and DC have collaborated for crossovers.

Okay Captain, now you've done it. You've gone and triggered my nutball imagination. I read that line and I started thinking "how about a crossover between the two games?"

There could be some kind of alternate dimension scuffle where a key TPP villain has formed a temporary alliance with a key H&V villain. They plan to steal an artifact that would make them unstoppable, but part of the artifact is in each dimension so they have to work together. Part one is played in (I picked one randomly) H&V, where your characters there uncover the plot; then part two is played in TPP, where your characters there attempt to foil said plot. Each game's story arc sees you visit a couple iconic locations in the other game's city and interact with signature characters from both worlds at once.

The villainside set of arcs would see your characters seizing the power for themselves, while signature heroes from the two worlds attempt to interfere. When your characters learn of the signature villains' plans, they strongarm and manipulate their way into stealing the artifact from their competition. The ultimate outcome of the whole storyline is a stalemate, where the heroes end up with one piece of the artifact and the villains with the other. This indicates that the characters are of equal strength and leaves things open for possibly revisiting it in the future. Whichever game had part one of the heroside arc would have part two of the villainside arc, and vice versa.

Finishing each arc might even unlock a "neutral ground" hangout area in their respective games. While players in one game couldn't actually mingle with players in the other game (for obvious reasons), the setting and NPCs would be identical in both places. Not a huge full zone, just a little something symbolic. Like a night club called "Pocket Z" or a garden called "Crossover Park".

Is it unrealistic? Maybe. Then again though, maybe it's not so crazy. I definitely think it would help show people that the two groups are friendly toward each other, and encourage players to give both games a fair try. Not to mention being a big neon sign declaring that "these are not your typical unimaginative corporate suits". Simply attempting it would be news in itself, I'd say; and if it were well done, and well received, it might be just the first ripple in a bigger wave.

Plus, now that I've seen it in my head, I just really want to see it happen. :P

downix

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2013, 02:48:24 PM »
The only problem with that idea is pure technical. We are running two very different game engines.

Triplash

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #15 on: May 23, 2013, 05:20:18 PM »
The only problem with that idea is pure technical. We are running two very different game engines.

Understandable. Though I guess that's the difference between seeing a game from the outside like me, and from the inside like yourself. I was thinking that, technically speaking, it would be no different than developing any other arc. The way I see it you have to build scenery and characters anyway, regardless of what mission you're making. In this case you'd just be using names and general visual appearance from the other game's lore in certain key places. It wouldn't be a copy-paste deal. The "home team" would develop all technical aspects, like models and textures and mechanics. The "visiting team's" only direct input would be co-writing the storyline. The hiccups would come from giving each other permissions to use respective IP rights concerning the crossover portions.

The whole point of it is to look and work differently under each engine, but to be recognizable as the intended subject. That's what a crossover is; the host setting dictates the rules, and the guests get temporarily translated into those rules. It should be not-quite-right; the very laws of physics being noticably different from one dimension to the next is highly encouraged in a superhero style setting!

If it's not possible, then hey, whaddaya gonna do. I admit I have a tendency to overreach sometimes. :P   But think about working together in some form at least. Your two projects have an opportunity to do something few if any other MMOs have ever been able to do... openly co-operate with another MMO. One that, by existing industry standards, should be considered a competitor. It could be a chance to show people a thing or two about playing nice with others.

downix

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2013, 05:56:41 PM »
Understandable. Though I guess that's the difference between seeing a game from the outside like me, and from the inside like yourself. I was thinking that, technically speaking, it would be no different than developing any other arc. The way I see it you have to build scenery and characters anyway, regardless of what mission you're making. In this case you'd just be using names and general visual appearance from the other game's lore in certain key places. It wouldn't be a copy-paste deal. The "home team" would develop all technical aspects, like models and textures and mechanics. The "visiting team's" only direct input would be co-writing the storyline. The hiccups would come from giving each other permissions to use respective IP rights concerning the crossover portions.

The whole point of it is to look and work differently under each engine, but to be recognizable as the intended subject. That's what a crossover is; the host setting dictates the rules, and the guests get temporarily translated into those rules. It should be not-quite-right; the very laws of physics being noticably different from one dimension to the next is highly encouraged in a superhero style setting!

If it's not possible, then hey, whaddaya gonna do. I admit I have a tendency to overreach sometimes. :P   But think about working together in some form at least. Your two projects have an opportunity to do something few if any other MMOs have ever been able to do... openly co-operate with another MMO. One that, by existing industry standards, should be considered a competitor. It could be a chance to show people a thing or two about playing nice with others.
Oh, it is possible. It just is difficult.

Triplash

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #17 on: May 23, 2013, 07:56:09 PM »
Oh, it is possible. It just is difficult.

Good to know! I won't hold my breath then, but I'd love to see something like it One DayTM :D

johnrobey

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #18 on: May 25, 2013, 02:01:37 PM »
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/05/22/a-mild-mannered-reporter-another-look-at-plan-z/ :-)

I certainly preferred this article to the one at beefjack.com   Personally, I hope both TPP and H&V launch and I look forward to playing both Plan Z successors.  I anticipate that one or both Plan Z projects will launch prior to the return of City of Heroes.   I'd like also to thank the teams working on each project.  I truly look forward to playing H&V and TPP!    :)

(I also have to note I thought @Illusionss' comment on another thread about how when one of the Plan Z's was ready to launch would likely be the impetus to get NCSad to sell the IP and/or attempt re-launch themselves.  Frankly, I'd much prefer they sell the IP than re-launch--assuming they'd ever consider either option, which I think unlikely as long as the current set of NCSad exec "visionaries" remain in charge.  Here's hoping NCSoft soon undergoes another Re-Alignment, ideally of executives, along with corporate vision.  What's that you say?  Bitter, who me?  I prefer the term Implacable, thank you!)   >:(
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Segev

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2013, 12:24:09 PM »
It's quite a bit early to be thinking about crossing over things, when neither game's settings are quite set in stone yet. I would, personally, imagine the first efforts at such a thing would likely happen in the form of more traditional media for the genre: a comic or a mini-web-series. This would bypass the technical difficulties.

But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, likely after both games have an Issue or two under their respective belts to establish themselves on their own. DC and Marvel didn't have "Wolverine and Robin" before Batman had been leading the dynamic duo for quite some time. (Okay, they NEVER have done that, but really, what OTHER Marvel hero has had so many juvenile sidekicks as Batman?)

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2013, 01:20:55 PM »
It's quite a bit early to be thinking about crossing over things, when neither game's settings are quite set in stone yet. I would, personally, imagine the first efforts at such a thing would likely happen in the form of more traditional media for the genre: a comic or a mini-web-series. This would bypass the technical difficulties.

But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it, likely after both games have an Issue or two under their respective belts to establish themselves on their own. DC and Marvel didn't have "Wolverine and Robin" before Batman had been leading the dynamic duo for quite some time. (Okay, they NEVER have done that, but really, what OTHER Marvel hero has had so many juvenile sidekicks as Batman?)

C'mon. Everyone knows that Wolverine only teams with teenaged girls. :D

Segev

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2013, 03:44:58 PM »
C'mon. Everyone knows that Wolverine only teams with teenaged girls. :D
So... since "Robin" is a unisex name, are you suggesting that Jubilee needs a new code name and to cross over to Gotham City?

Triplash

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Re: Joint press!
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2013, 04:27:21 PM »
It's quite a bit early to be thinking about crossing over things, when neither game's settings are quite set in stone yet. I would, personally, imagine the first efforts at such a thing would likely happen in the form of more traditional media for the genre: a comic or a mini-web-series. This would bypass the technical difficulties.

Shoot no, I wasn't suggesting it for launch! hehe.  And yeah, the comic angle would make more sense all around. I just like to think outside the box when I'm brainstorming, and I tend not to place limits on myself based on minor details like "difficulty" or "reality". ;D