Author Topic: Need New Computer Suggestions  (Read 9781 times)

Kaos Arcanna

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Need New Computer Suggestions
« on: February 19, 2013, 08:18:26 PM »
So... I want to buy a new computer that will do gaming quite well and hopefully last me for a good three or four years
minimum without massive amount of upgrades.

I think this one I'm going to have a local computer place build for me, so I'm looking for suggestions on specs more than a particular brand type.

(Also I want to get one before I'm forced to take Windows 8 ...) :D

Can anyone offer some suggestions?

I would probably not want to spend more than $2500.00 max though.


houtex

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #1 on: February 20, 2013, 04:58:45 AM »
I went rather nuts at newegg.com and still didn't hit 2500.  It ain't water cooled, nor is it absolutely the top of everything, but it should be relevant for quite some time, I'd guess. 

Here's what I got, given the desire to kick serious assage for a long amount of time:

Case: Cooler Master RC-692A-KKN4 CM690II.  PLENTY airflow.  Bottom mount power supply, with outside or inside air intake.  I have the CM690, and I *love* it. So much air moving.  You can get a HAF if you wanted though, or pretty much any mid-case you want as long as the air is being moved.  With the next item, you are gonna want that air movin'...

Power Supply: Thermatake Toughpower Grand TPG-1200W ATX 12 v2.3  Should last a long time, and plenty power... I think.  Someone will likely tell me I didn't get enough power supply, but... they're overbuilt, why I spec'd it.  Be sure to get it plenty airflow.

Motherboard: Intel Z77.  Picked the BOXDZ77BH55K, for no reason other than it supports the CPU and Ram.  You wanna play overclocker, have fun with that, and you need an ASUS or such mobo.  I'm a stock is good person.  Even the stock heatsink I wind up using.  Although, with that much CPU below, an aftermarket cooler might be a good idea for sound issues, but that's all.

CPU: Core I7-3770K Ivy Bridge 3.5/3.9.  Unlocked for playtime, but won't bother in my setup.  Probably could save a few Washingtons by taking that K off the end, but... meh.

Memory: Corsair Vengeance 32GB (4x8GB) 1600 speed RAM

Video Card: EVGA 04G-P4-2690-KR GeForce GTX 690 4GB.  Should be fine (if not awesome) for whatever comes around for a while, and I've had really good luck with all EVGA video cards I've ever had.  Also not overclocking this, and keepin' the stock sink.

CD/DVD/BluRay: LG model, does everything, solid stuff, don't much care about it, it works, done.  Could save some bucks here by downgrading to a plain DVD burner... but futureproofing a little here.  You'll have to acquire mastering software for the BluRays if you wanna do that, I otherwise just use CDBurnerXP or... well, I can't remember it now, but some free/opensource DVD mastering software I needed once...

Hard Drive: Western Digital 1TB 7200RPM Sata 6.0 3.5" Black.  Not the biggest, but should be enough.  Can always add storage, this will get things going.

OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 64bit OEM.

Total Cost for all that, as of today, right now: $2289.91 less taxes and shipping, at NewEgg.com.

You can finagle stuff about to fit different things, such as an SSD might fit your budget, or you can reduce the video card a little to a 670GTX, stuff like that, but this beast is overall gonna kick butt for a long long time.
 
Please note: If you are saying you can't build this (as I don't know why you'd have someone build it otherwise, to be honest, except "I don't wanna", which indeed, I certainly get, but still...)
You *can* do this.  There are so so many youtube videos and web pages dedicated to how to build this, and nothing, and I mean NOTHING, I spec'd is special in any way.  You just... start putting it together like a Lego kit, and about an hour later if you're taking your time, you have a system ready to install the OS from the disc.  You'll save the money doing that, and you'll have another feather in your cap to boot.

Folks, how did I do? I'm seriously curious as to what y'all think.
 
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 05:08:50 AM by houtex »

FatherXmas

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2013, 05:43:51 AM »
So... I want to buy a new computer that will do gaming quite well and hopefully last me for a good three or four years
minimum without massive amount of upgrades.

I think this one I'm going to have a local computer place build for me, so I'm looking for suggestions on specs more than a particular brand type.

(Also I want to get one before I'm forced to take Windows 8 ...) :D

Can anyone offer some suggestions?

I would probably not want to spend more than $2500.00 max though.

With or without monitor(s)?

Off hand and off the shelf, this will do nicely if you don't mind the paint job or the front door on the case.  Should give you enough left over for a nice size (240GB range) SSD, gamer keyboard and mouse and some nice speakers.

You can save an additional $300 by stepping down one level to this model.  8GB vs 16GB, GTX 670 vs GTX 680, i5-3570K vs i7-3770K, DVD burner vs Blu-ray player/DVD burner.

Both configurations use the same speed memory, same Asus motherboard, same Corsair PSU, same cooler and same case.  They are also 64-bit Windows 7.

At the very least you could use those specs as a guide to your local shop.
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Hejist

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2013, 03:27:38 PM »
Ya did pretty good  Houtex, quite excessive for most home applications. ;)

Is it just/mostly for gaming Kaos?

If it is, then an i7 isn't necessary. As things stand very few games (read none) utilize more than 3 cores effectively, let alone hyper-threading. IIRC the estimate is a maximum 6% performance increase using 4 cores over 3 (only 27% using 3 cores over a duo!) and zero increase for HT. It's not until you start doing funky things like mutli-thread HD video rendering does an i7 really shine. It's worth checking if other software you'll want to use will utilize HT because if not, short of the extra cores an i7 is pointless, and for gaming the extra cores won't help at all. VERY few home applications utilize or even use HT at all, or more than 4 cores. And certainly not well enough for most home users to warrant the extra expense. Games benefit most from a single core at high frequency (the reason why the i5 beats AMD hands down for gamers).

An  i5-3570K over-clocked to around 4.2Ghz (some OC better than others it's pot-luck but rarely is less than 4.1Ghz achievable and it's not difficult or dangerous with a little good advise) with a decent cooler will run perfectly safely and stable, and see you good for a long time.

Same goes for RAM. 32Gb is well beyond overkill for gaming, 16Gb is overkill. Running multiple applications at once is when you most need lots of RAM.

PSU - don't go cheap on this one, a good PSU will last well beyond the usable lifetime of mobo/cpu. That said, 800w is more than enough unless you really want to seriously over-clock a system, even then it should be plenty if it's a quality PSU.

So save the $ or use it to better the other components.

So something like :-
i5-3570k(k means unlocked so can be over-clocked) with a CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO, stock cooler if you aren't going to OC. (I personally use an Arctic Freezer i30 which I have no complaints about at all despite it's mediocre reviews :))
Z77 mobo of choice (Gigabyte Z77X-D3H or similar depending on the features you want - like usb3 etc.) just be careful not to pay for things you won't ever need. You'll need to do a few searches to find the right one for you.
Corsair Vengeance 16Gb (2x8Gb) 1600Mhz RAM (leaves room for 2 more IF you ever need it).
Hard-drive I totally agree with Houtex, Western Digital 1TB 7200RPM Sata 6.0, possibly add a SSD as a boot drive around 64Gb is more than enough as Win7 has roughly a 16Gb footprint (or just the single biggest, fastest SSD you have the $ for. However, a goodly sized, fast SSD will easily eat $1000+ on it's own, ie Kingspec Multicore PCIe ).
GPU is a tough one and contentious, ATI Sapphire HD 7970 Vapor or EVGA GTX 680 sig2 (2x680s are cheaper and faster than a single 690 btw and also over-clock more readily, hence not recommending the GTX 690). $ per FPS the Sapphire....pure performance the GTX (and yes people will argue one way or the other til they blue in the face and no I'm not a fanboy of either).
Sound Card is a tough one too, but a safe bet is the Xi-Fi Titanium Fatal1ty Pro or USB M-Audio if you write music (buy a Mac!).
PSU - CoolerMaster Silent Pro Gold 800w

OK that's my 2 cents on the 'main' components. About as 'future-proof' as you'll get (CPU upto 8 core i7 when costs lower, usb3, SLI/XFire, over-clock friendly should you feel the need/want etc. etc.). Hope I've been of some help.  :)

@Ghostchase

Edit: Worth a mention on the GPU front, Gigabyte HD7870 OC and EVGA GTX 660 ti SC, a little cheaper and up to the task until you start hitting max details at high res and on a budget the MSI HD 7850 1GB (especially if you can guarantee XFire and fit 2 of them, it's roughly equal to a single non-OCd GTX 680 and they over-clock very well indeed), there really isn't a faster card at that price. Check your maximum resolution and go from there is my advise. No point paying for a 2048x1536 resolution card if your monitor can't handle it.

How'd I do Houtex? ;)
« Last Edit: February 20, 2013, 06:27:25 PM by Hejist »
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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2013, 05:52:10 PM »
I'm looking at doing something like this. This computer has already been built and tested last  year. I built it for my cousin so I need it's a beast.


 
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I am looking at possibly swapping the phenom for an i5 though.

Mistress Urd

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2013, 06:54:26 PM »
So... I want to buy a new computer that will do gaming quite well and hopefully last me for a good three or four years
minimum without massive amount of upgrades.

I think this one I'm going to have a local computer place build for me, so I'm looking for suggestions on specs more than a particular brand type.

(Also I want to get one before I'm forced to take Windows 8 ...) :D

Can anyone offer some suggestions?

I would probably not want to spend more than $2500.00 max though.

Honestly, I would shoot for around $1200-1500 that is about the diminishing returns cap.

I would go with Hejist's suggestion. You can spend the extra grand but it really doesn't buy that much IMHO. Just about all of the parts I would go with except I would use Asus motherboards and I would go with the EVGA GTX 660 Ti.
For PSU go Seasonic they are excellent. They make PSUs and are often the OEM to many of the other "brands" out there.

Profit: That machine looks about 3 years old. Phenom II 965 went EoL awhile ago. 460 SE? that is also a really old card and SE versions are the weakest cheapest model. I would go Intel i5 with a 6xx Nivdia card.

FatherXmas

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2013, 07:17:38 PM »
I'm looking at doing something like this. This computer has already been built and tested last  year. I built it for my cousin so I need it's a beast.

I wouldn't have used the phrase "a beast" when describing a system with a GTX 460SE.  The GTX 650Ti is roughly 25% faster and uses 40 watts less power.  It's a $140-150 card, for the 1GB version, on NewEgg.

As for the CPU, ye olde debate, Intel Vs AMD, but in this case, for gaming, Intel wins hands down if you don't take price into consideration.  For a budget quad core it's great but it can limit the potential of high end video cards, depends on the game.

Honestly, I would shoot for around $1200-1500 that is about the diminishing returns cap.

I would go with Hejist's suggestion. You can spend the extra grand but it really doesn't buy that much IMHO. Just about all of the parts I would go with except I would use Asus motherboards and I would go with the EVGA GTX 660 Ti.

Which is why I listed the cheaper, $300 less, iBUYPOWER rig as an example.  My SWAG is that the i5-3570K/GTX 670 would be roughly 10% slower than the i7-3770K/GTX 680 rig.  HT on the i7-3770K doesn't really help gaming although the extra 2MB of L3 cache will.  Performance difference between a stock clock GTX 670 vs a stock clock GTX 680 is very small for the $100 difference in price between cards.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2013, 07:30:41 PM by FatherXmas »
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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2013, 07:43:52 PM »
@Father Xmas- Yeah, that Machine was built a while ago and "was" a beast I should say. For whatever reason, the components worked very well together in it. I was basing the beast description off of it playing Crysis 2 without any problems.

@Mistress Urd - It is an older machine. As I said, I built it for my cousin a year and change ago. I am mostly just using it as a baseline for I want my tax money machine to do. :D

Mistress Urd

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2013, 09:34:19 PM »
Father Xmas: The only problem I have with those is that they use Liquid Cooling. I'm sure going to ibuypower directly and choosing air cooling would be a better option but that's just me. I wouldn't want to be around if/when one of those things springs a leak. (Yes it does happen, not often but you don't want to be one of them)

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2013, 10:18:12 PM »
Thanks, guys.

I'm not planning on buying a new monitor as I have a pretty good one now (and two spares).


I may or may not wind up doing some video editing. I think I'd like to have the capability in case I do need it.  :)

FatherXmas

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2013, 11:02:33 PM »
Father Xmas: The only problem I have with those is that they use Liquid Cooling. I'm sure going to ibuypower directly and choosing air cooling would be a better option but that's just me. I wouldn't want to be around if/when one of those things springs a leak. (Yes it does happen, not often but you don't want to be one of them)

I was just pointing at them as an example of what's a good mix of parts, rather than spend the time listing a custom build.  I'm not a fan of liquid cooling either and the one being used in those iBUYPOWER is rather small/weak/minimal compared to what they offer on their site.  Plus right now liquid cooling is a sexy selling point for gamers, much like RAID 0 and SLi.  It's just with an Ivy Bridge CPU, they really heat up if you are trying to seriously overclock them, a decent size liquid cooling solution seems to be the only thing to keep them reasonably cool.
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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2013, 11:21:31 PM »
Or even better Mistress, go straight for 2xEVGA 660 ti SC and sing all the way to the bank with a big grin. It's each to there own with mobos tbh, Asus are great, very reliable and customer service is superb (not that you should ever need to find out :P). The important thing is not to pay for features you'll never use, you can end up paying literally $100+ more than you need to for zero benefit, just by choosing what looks like an awesome mobo.

I still stand by i7 being wasted in a 'primarily' games machine, regardless of cache. EXTREMELY small (not noticeable in FPS terms) performance boost in SOME games. Particle systems often, but not always, being one example. HDD load times, again rarely, being another. And both being negligible to totally unnoticeable in a modern system. Data crunching and encoding is when a large cache is most relevant. Is it really worth the extra $? If you do substantial amounts of video encoding, 3D graphics or data crunching then sure, otherwise, IMHO no. I'd go with a faster GPU and an i5 any day. Ofc, if you've got the cash burning a hole and nothing better to with it then sure, why not? ;D i5's still OC far more reliably though. :)

A 4.2Ghz or even 4.5Ghz OC most certainly does not require liquid cooling, I don't know who gave you that information. I use an i5-3570k OC'd to 4.2Ghz everyday, it never gets turned off, and in stress tests it runs cooler than most would consider 'normal' operating temps. That's with an Arctic Freezer i30(not the best) fitted.

Kaos, don't mistake 'a little bit of video editing now and then' with video encoding, although the former obviously does include the latter by it's very nature. Unless you do it everyday and encode hours worth you won't miss the extra speed afforded by an i7. You don't lose the capability to edit video by not using an i7. :)

@Profit - no offense meant, but test that system up against a well designed i5-2500k of the same era costing < $100 more. It wouldn't hold up well. Don't get me wrong, you start liquid cooling Phenom and OC to 6Ghz+ then sure, but that's big bucks and takes awesome skill to achieve - it also needs to be a Phenom without the 'cold bug'. And that particular model isn't really a good one IIRC.  :-\ AMD offer only one advantage in the current climate (last 4 yrs  :o). They're cheap to build. And I certainly wouldn't be recommending anyone go for a 400 series unless it was free and you were given 2 of them.  ;)

@Ghostchase

Edit: just to add - good case airflow, a cool spot in the room (not right next the central heating) is plenty. An open case is even better. :)
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 12:06:05 AM by Hejist »
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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2013, 12:08:13 AM »
A 4.2Ghz or even 4.5Ghz OC most certainly does not require liquid cooling, I don't know who gave you that information. I use an i5-3570k OC'd to 4.2Ghz everyday, it never gets turned off, and in stress tests is runs cooler than most would consider 'normal' operating temps. That's with an Arctic Freezer i30(not the best) fitted.

Note I did say "seriously overclocked".  See this, they were using Intel's water cooler (similar to low end 120mm water coolers).  The overclocking I'm talking about is 4.6GHz and up.  A grandma can overclock an Ivy Bridge to 4.2GHz.  ;)

But that's where my sexy selling point comes from.  Your average Joe/Jane gamer who don't build their own will see article after article about significant overclocking that have the larger 240mm wide liquid coolers keeping the temps in check.  So they associate OC to liquid cooling.  But for something that can be safely done automagically with MB utilities, without the need of tweaking CPU voltage or other OC tricks of the trade, a nice relatively small 3-5 heat pipe tower cooler will suffice, as long as the case is getting a nice supply of fresh air.  It's just the bigger the tower cooler, the greater the likelihood that ram with tall heat sinks or even motherboards with heat sinks on the power regulators around the CPU could interfere, where a LC block is rather low profile.
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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2013, 12:43:41 AM »
Was just about to edit....I mis-read 'serious'. I do apologize. And yes over 4.5Ghz and you are risking a serious fry up without decent liquid cooling and a good knowledge of the subject....hence my meek OC I had no intention of even coming close to frying my new i5. ;)

Reading the article now, been considering upping the OC for a while. :P

Ok all read up.

Interesting, even at stock speed I had to increase voltage by 0.005 or it just wouldn't boot for me. And trust me when I say I tried everything else 1st and that really was the last ditch attempt before re-boxing the CPU and RMA-ing it. Anyhow the 4.2Ghz was a breeze (as you say, my Grandma could've done it for me, ummm, if she was still alive :P), another 0.005v to re-stabilize it and temps maxing at 55 on all but 1 core, which was cooler (one core always runs cooler on my CPU, but 1 core hotter is just as common) after 18 hours straight stress testing, constantly monitoring temps ofc and set to turn off at 85. The tiny increase in voltage my CPU needed to get there leads me to believe 4.5Ghz should work out beautifully for my particular CPU on air.

Some i5-3570k's won't even get to 4.2Ghz and run stable no matter what you do (under 4.1Ghz is VERY unusual) and does show just how pot-luck OCing an Ivy-bridge is and I sure as hell wouldn't push one anywhere near as far as a 2500 will go or whack 1.3v through it! Why I went for a nice safe 4.2Ghz in the 1st place.
 
Anyway not the thread to be ranting about OCing I'm sure.  ;D

Good read though cheers FatherXmas.

@Ghostchase

Edit: Well briefly tested 4.5Ghz and it simply refuses point blank to boot with anything less 1.25v which I'm not willing to go beyond without specialist cooling, not on an Ivy (It might work fine, but I just CBA). Further tested 4.3Ghz @ 1.195v, bootable but mildly unstable. Just goes to prove the point how touchy Ivy-bridge is. Pretty sure 4.3 or 4.4Ghz is quite possible with a bit of methodical tweakage, but it's just not worth the time or effort for the extra 100/200Mhz (I find it too annoying removing the CMOS battery every other boot). :'( Not to worry, safe and stable 4.2Ghz @ 1.185v is it. :D

**mutter mutter, grumpy little bugger of a CPU**
« Last Edit: February 22, 2013, 04:18:39 PM by Hejist »
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houtex

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2013, 05:35:25 AM »
Oh, so many ways to skin cats... Heh.  Everyone has an idea, right? :)

Post pics of what you wind up with, Kaos!  I'm sure we'll all be pretty cool with whatever you get.  Especially if it has lights and an automated chase scene being enacted inside the case window... Heh.

re: casemods, I once entertained these ideas..

1) Club with automated dancing people, activated by the hard drive activity light, as well as the different colored stage lighting changing around with that, all in the bottom half of the case, with a window, of course.

2) Remotely controlled panel van that would back up to a power plug.  Why is that a computer?  It's not... until I flicked a switch on the remote control (after plugging the van in the wall, that is) and it would erect a monitor, keyboard stand and mouse stand.  It would also deploy stabilizers at the corners of the van.  It would, when done, stand 5.5 feet tall, and be a fully functional gaming system, with wireless keyboard and mouse.  Oh, I had it all figured out too.  The keyboard and mouse stand would fold up into the overall stand, and then the monitor stand would close, folding in half into the panel van, whereupon it would close the back up, and then I could trundle off with it. :)  15" square monitor, self folding and extending stand, rotating and folding keyboard shelf, all done with lil' servos, spring, and cables...  It would have been *glorious*.

I still think about making it anyway, for the 'becuz I kan' factor.

/But then, I'd rather ride a motorcycle, if I ever get the stinkin' panels ready for paint... Freakin' plastic PC800...

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2013, 12:11:17 AM »
I hate you FatherXmas.  :P

After our little chat I just couldn't help myself, ya git!

Anyway, after a few very minor tweaks 4.5Ghz and still cool as a cucumber and rock solid under stress for 6hrs with P95. Got to stress it for 18-24hrs and if it doesn't complain - Happy days!   8)

Everyone loves FatherXmas! (Git!)

\threadjack off

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Mistress Urd

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2013, 03:06:42 AM »
Hejist: Sorry not a fan of crossfire or SLI. I go single card. Its much cheaper and has less compatability issues. Since I buy a new rig roughly every 18 months, I keep costs reasonable and a relative/friend gets a pretty nice system cheap.

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2013, 05:23:46 AM »
I happen to agree with the single card solution, if only for the KISS principle... but there's enough out there to say single is a better idea for stability.

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #18 on: February 25, 2013, 05:25:01 AM »
I had just bought a new system from http://www.pugetsystems.com.  The customer service was top notch.
One way or another... Heroes will fly again!

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Re: Need New Computer Suggestions
« Reply #19 on: February 25, 2013, 10:21:28 AM »
I had just bought a new system from http://www.pugetsystems.com.  The customer service was top notch.

Yes it is, you get what you pay for.
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