Defiance

[Knightslayer]

I noticed there are several CoHers already on the Defiance forums, anyone here plan to play it when it comes out?

[DarkCurrent]

Locked and loaded.  Been alphaing the last few weeks.

[zaprobo]

I'm undecided on Defiance - while I love MMO shooters (PlanetSide 2 is awesome) the graphics in Defiance are too.... grungy. All washed out and grey like the modern shooters I don't actually enjoy or have any time for.

That said... I may play a little just to enjoy the series tie ins.

[Lothic]

I just learned about this combination TV show/MMO last week.  Honestly not really sure why I hadn't heard of it before. 

The TV part of it is being developed by Rockne S. O'Bannon who was the main guy behind Farscape.  The overall Defiance universe looks like a mixture of Farscape (alien-wise) with some elements of Firefly and maybe even a little bit of the post-apocalyptic Fallout game series.  They say that events in the TV series (set in the St. Louis area) will affect and be affected by events that happen in the MMO (set in the San Francisco area) so as time goes on the game/show universe will evolve together.

It does all sound fairly interesting.  Not sure it'd be a full substitute for CoH but it might be worth checking out.

[dwturducken]

It's an interesting concept, but A) I will not pay a monthly sub for a TV show tie-in until I know I like the show, and B) Nothing new from SciFi has interested me since Warehouse 13, and I still haven't forgiven them for flushing the Stargate franchise down the toilet.

[DarkCurrent]

There have been open beta tests the last month, so if you get a chance you can download the client and try it out.  There have been a lot of tweaks and fixes and additions the last few patches, so it's gotten stronger each time.

One thing I hope they add to is the number of Ego abilities you can have available at one time.  I have a low level character, so it might get more later, but only 1 special power so far, plus the 3 attacks.  Needs more button mashing like CoX.

[Knightslayer]

It's an interesting concept, but A) I will not pay a monthly sub for a TV show tie-in until I know I like the show, and B) Nothing new from SciFi has interested me since Warehouse 13, and I still haven't forgiven them for flushing the Stargate franchise down the toilet.

You won't have to, the game is B2P like GW2 and TSW.
The game will be out roughly two weeks before the show though, unless I'm mistaken.

[Lothic]

It's an interesting concept, but A) I will not pay a monthly sub for a TV show tie-in until I know I like the show, and B) Nothing new from SciFi has interested me since Warehouse 13, and I still haven't forgiven them for flushing the Stargate franchise down the toilet.

Yeah to be totally honest I've been fairly biased against anything involving the "SyFy" channel for years.  Sadly most of what appears there is in fact D-grade crap and it's sort of the reason I didn't mention it by name in my last post.

But because this show is being made by the guys who worked on Farscape and BSG I'm at least going to give it a try.  At worst it'll probably try to be some kind of weak "Farscape 2.0" with some alien factional drama that might try to mimic the likes of DS9/B5.  Perhaps it'll be worthwhile -despite- being on SyFy. 

[General Idiot]

...and I still haven't forgiven them for flushing the Stargate franchise down the toilet.

You and me both. Stargate Universe was just getting properly interesting when they canned it.

[Knightslayer]

You and me both. Stargate Universe was just getting properly interesting when they canned it.

Ah, like my grudge against Fox over Firefly and Dark Angel - though I'll still watch their shows if they are promising =/

[dwturducken]

This, too. I haven't watched a live-action show on Fox since Dark Angel and Firefly.

[FatherXmas]

Then you missed Fringe.  That was a fun, weird show.  It's on Science channel, the "new" SciFi.

[Lothic]

It's on Science channel, the "new" SciFi.

It is sadly ironic that the "Science" channel generally handles "Sci-Fi" better than the channel that's supposed to be completely geared to Sci-Fi.

[Lothic]

Well I guess it's a little weird for me to be double-posting on this thread again (after my last post last week) but I just saw an interesting bit of Defiance trivia that's actually vaguely related to City of Heroes.

As many of you know the people who make the TV show "Big Bang Theory" have always been big fans of CoH.  They usually had posters and signs related to CoH and CoV hanging in the comic book shop featured in the show and they often had people wearing the Statesman's Star emblem on their t-shirts.  Well like us I'm sure they were upset to see the end of CoH but based on what I saw in last night's episode I think they may have decided to support a new game - Defiance.  Hanging on the wall of the comic book store was a huge poster with the bold word "DEFIANCE" printed on it and artwork that sort of looked like it was related to this new MMO.  Seems like the folks at Big Bang Theory may have decided to jump to Defiance as their new favorite MMO.

[Aggelakis]

It is sadly ironic that the "Science" channel generally handles "Sci-Fi" better than the channel that's supposed to be completely geared to Sci-Fi.

It's too bad that the "science" channel doesn't do much "science". Just like it's too bad the "sci-fi" channel doesn't do much "sci-fi". :/

[Dollhouse]

I'll definitely take a look at this. I could care less about the SyFy connection: I don't watch TV much (don't own one, and pretty much just watch streaming stuff like soccer games...and Grimm.    ).  I do, however, have a lot of respect for Trion. I didn't take to Rift, but that's more a matter of not really being into high fantasy games. But Rift had a Beta that was a LOT smoother, less buggy, and generally more playable than some fully released games ever manage. They do a great job at Q/A and tend to release a solid game.

And I'm also a shooter player (or was...I pretty much only play MMOs now, so the only 'shooter' I'm currently playing is Fallen earth...). This is basically a big, open-world TPS, but if they have enough of a realized setting, some reasonably safe quiet areas, and other RP-friendly elements, I'll likely be all over this. Post-apoc-style settings are work well for me.

[Knightslayer]

This is basically a big, open-world TPS, but if they have enough of a realized setting, some reasonably safe quiet areas, and other RP-friendly elements, I'll likely be all over this. Post-apoc-style settings are work well for me.

There should definitely be some of those. 

[Lothic]

It's too bad that the "science" channel doesn't do much "science". Just like it's too bad the "sci-fi" channel doesn't do much "sci-fi". :/

I wasn't trying to imply that the Science channel is absolutely perfect in what it does either.  Just pointing out that it tends to do better in an area that's diametrically opposed to what it stands for (fact versus fiction) than another channel that's supposed to be totally focused on the fiction side of things.  Thus the irony.

More to the point SyFy is such a -horrible- example of a channel not supporting its own supposed subject matter that I probably could have used practically ANY channel as a superior comparison to it in that regard.  SyFy's continued failures with Sci-Fi is akin to what it'd be like if PETA tried to run the Hunting channel or if the Vatican tried to run the Playboy channel.

[FatherXmas]

I wasn't trying to imply that the Science channel is absolutely perfect in what it does either.  Just pointing out that it tends to do better in an area that's diametrically opposed to what it stands for (fact versus fiction) than another channel that's supposed to be totally focused on the fiction side of things.  Thus the irony.

More to the point SyFy is such a -horrible- example of a channel not supporting its own supposed subject matter that I probably could have used practically ANY channel as a superior comparison to it in that regard.  SyFy's continued failures with Sci-Fi is akin to what it'd be like if PETA tried to run the Hunting channel or if the Vatican tried to run the Playboy channel.

That's been the unfortunate evolution of cable networks who tried to carve out a specific viewer niche using preexisting programming with a touch of original. 

The History Channel use to be full of documentaries, a lot being WWII.  That's been spun off into the Military Channel now.  They use to have a quiz show dealing with history knowledge, now gone.  Science Fiction use to rely on decades of canceled SciFi programming from around the world with an original series every now and then and an interview/panel show.  The Learning Channel use to have shows dealing dealing with education and self improvement.  The Discovery Channel about science and technology.  MTV use to be 90% music videos.

The problem was that after the initial draw of their programming, viewership faded.  A 24/7 channel can blow though all the existing programming created in the last 30 years rather quickly.  Original programming costs significantly more money to make.  So they diversified.  They looked at what's popular and what's cheap to make and then try to mold it to their self proclaimed niche.  So History now has shows that look at old objects and discuss their "history" (American Pickers, Pawn Stars, American Restoration).  And just like bookstores that have lumped science fiction, fantasy and horror onto the same shelves, SyFy is now has ghost hunting, giant rock em' sock em' robots and a reality competition for prosthetic makeup artists.  Discovery is now about people with unusual occupations and their trials like crab fishermen, loggers, moonshiners and gold miners.

Science is a part of the TLC/Discovery network of channels.  It started as a channel to house repeats of series that were once on or still on TLC/Discovery that dealt with science and technology.  Their recent foray into fiction series like Firefly and Fringe by rapping them in a "lets talk about the science/technology subjects brought up in tonight's episode" is a bit of a stretch but again, it's to draw in a steady viewership.

[DarkCurrent]

So anyway I'm really enjoying the updates to this game.  Reminds me a bit of Hitman II.

[MindBlender]

Well, wrestling is fiction, but there is not much science to it.  I will also add that ghost hunters claims that ghosts ARE real and therefore NOT fiction.  Lately I get more syfy from BBC showing Dr Who 

[Lothic]

That's been the unfortunate evolution of cable networks who tried to carve out a specific viewer niche using preexisting programming with a touch of original.

Sadly this "programming malaise" seems to be a problem with TV in general. There was an early ST:TNG episode where the question of television came up and Data said something along the lines of "that particular form of entertainment was no longer relevant by the year 2054".

Of course when that Star Trek episode aired in the late 80s that statement by Data seemed like a funny sounding fantasy.  But now with how widespread the Internet has become I honestly think that not only will Data's prophetic statement come true I suspect it'll happen much sooner than 2054.  Like a growing number of people I barely watch any broadcast/cable TV anymore.  Between things like DVRs, YouTube and Netflix I pretty much only watch the shows I directly want to see when I want to see them.

I really do think the idea of "passive network TV" will be a thing of the past in a few decades.  Perhaps what we're seeing with the random silliness of channels like SyFy is the last desperate flails of cable TV trying to remain viable. Or maybe we're just ready for a bunch of aliens to show up and want to live with us.

[Ampithere]

Don't forget about the Ancient Aliens channel...erm...History channel.

Can't talk about ironic/sad tv channels and not mention that 

[Dollhouse]

Okay, while I can't comment on the TV show (I haven't owned a television in well over a decade...), the game is pretty fun. As has been mentioned, it's basically a shooter/MMO hybrid, and it leans heavily towards the former. As I'd expect from Trion, it's pretty darn polished for a beta (although not so much so as Rift was at this stage). The combat is very well done , with the caveat that I vastly prefer reticule aiming...tab-to-target fans will hate it. The writing and voice acting are fairly good, but bear in mind that my main game these days is TSW, and TSW is in a league of its own in that regard...I'm going to judge a bit harshly in that area.

They do a lot of interesting things with blur and "shake" effects when action gets really intense. The Arkfalls in particular develop a frantic, chaotic feel that is what I think the CoH devs were shooting for in things like Rikti invasions (but which the engine really didn't handle well, so things turned into lagfests instead).

Will I buy it? Maybe. I'm not sure there are enough social opportunities for a roleplayer (even a reticule-aiming, PvP-friendly RP'er like me), but I'll know more by the end of the beta weekend. For those looking for a game thatt replaces CoH in a large number of aspects, this isn't your game (utterly different in most areas...), but for someone looking for a fast-paced, shooter-like hybrid game with excellent graphics and Trion's usual level of professionalism on the dev side, it looks like a fun choice.

[Lothic]

Okay, while I can't comment on the TV show (I haven't owned a television in well over a decade...), the game is pretty fun.

For what it's worth none of us can really comment on the TV show yet - it doesn't start until April 15.  But thanks for providing another review of the game.  It'll be interesting to see how much content gets shared between the game and the show as time goes on.

[General Idiot]

So, now that this game is out... anyone playing it, that could give an opinion on if it's any good? From what I've seen it seems decent but we all know what the difference between PR and reality can be.

[Dollhouse]

So, now that this game is out... anyone playing it, that could give an opinion on if it's any good? From what I've seen it seems decent but we all know what the difference between PR and reality can be.

Trion made a bit of a liar out of me (when I praised their ability to launch a game with far fewer problems than most studios). Unlike the very clean Rift launch, however, Defiance has had some pretty serious problems. The first couple days have had huge connectivity issues, horribly slow downloads (and a download patcher that starts over if interrupted...how the hell did that happen in 2013??), and a number of other "critical level" problems.

That said, after my cat decided this morning that I really didn't need to sleep past 5:45AM (and I don't head for work until 8AM!), I logged in and played without any problems. Trion have been pushing emergency patches and hotfixes live, and while I think they messed up their estimates of the difference between live server loads and the end of beta, they seem to be performing at their usual high standard in terms of speedy fixes.

The game itself is a real winner for me. It's a fast-paced third-person shooter with superb graphics, excellent combat, and a good story line. Voice acting and cutscenes are good (I'd have said "great" prior to Secret World massively raising the bar in those areas). I vastly prefer reticule aiming to tab targeting, which obviously makes me receptive to this kind of combat.

I can't comment yet on the social tools, as I don't know anyone in-game yet and haven't had a chance to try them out. The game isn't an MMORPG (it's an MMOTPS, basically), but if the tools are there, there's no reason why it couldn't work for roleplayers. The gameworld, the atmosphere, and the backstory are certainly enough for RP'ers to sink their teeth into. I can't comment on PvP yet, either; I played the last beta, but I want to get a bit more comfortable and instinctive with the combat system before heading from "Co-Op" to "Competitive."

All-in-all, I think it's going to be a good, fun game. Not a replacement for most players' "main MMORPG," but definitely worth spending available gaming time on for me.

[FatherXmas]

Are the server's cross platform?  Can PC players play with PS3 and XBox 360 players or is everyone compartmentalized?

[Dollhouse]

Are the server's cross platform?  Can PC players play with PS3 and XBox 360 players or is everyone compartmentalized?

It's my understanding that the game code can do it, but the powers-that-be at Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in letting anyone run a cross-platform game like this. So, no...it's not.

[Risha]

Oddly enough, I ran across the Defiance ads last night when I watched The Voice blind auditions 3 on my ipad.  I logged on, but I'm afraid I'll have a problem with the graphics being too realistic for me...yep, weeenie.  I loved my shooter La Rowen, and shooting strategy, but I also liked the "very little blood" of COX.

[Lothic]

It's my understanding that the game code can do it, but the powers-that-be at Sony and Microsoft aren't interested in letting anyone run a cross-platform game like this. So, no...it's not.

Yeah I've never understood why cross-platforming a game like this would be technically difficult to do.  As long as clients can talk to servers with the proper messages what does it matter what kind of machines the clients are?  Clearly there could be some development-side issues with having to have unique client code run on different hardware properly.  But if the Devs can make the game work on each of the various client types individually then there should be no obvious problem with a central server talking to all of them equally.

It would seem then that the only reason this (or any game) doesn't support cross-platforming is due to non-technical arbitrary reasons.  Like you imply it probably has more to do with Sony and Microsoft not wanting their playerbases to mix or it could be some concern of Trion's that PvP would be more fair if you had all the players involved running on the same hardware.  Maybe they don't want people to start whining, "People who play on [machine X] always beat people who are playing on [machine Y]!" *shrugs*

[beveri8469]

havent read bout the game yet. do they have regular servers and pvp servers or just one mega server?

[Lothic]

havent read bout the game yet. do they have regular servers and pvp servers or just one mega server?

It's basically one "mega" server per platform: one each for PC, PS3 and Xbox players.
Like CoH was PvP is not "open world" style but kept in specific PvP areas.

[Richpur]

...maybe even a little bit of the post-apocalyptic Fallout game series...

The hulking great big mutants with makeshift armour and miniguns are blue instead of greenish yellow. Aesthetically it's similar enough I've tried to trigger V.A.T.S. when ambushed.

I wish CoX could have handled vehicles like Defiance does. I haven't had this much fun running time trials since the ski slopes were open.

[UruzSix]

I heard there are actual Dodge Challengers in the game. How much customization do you get, like say I can paint mine orange and slap a big black '01' on the side?

[Dollhouse]

I heard there are actual Dodge Challengers in the game. How much customization do you get, like say I can paint mine orange and slap a big black '01' on the side?

Vehicles are purchased (with in-game currency, although I think there are other appearance options in the cash shop) in one color, from a list of color schemes. I don't think there's a way to change their appearance once you've made your selection. The Challenger was a pre-order item, but it may also be available in the game - I haven't spotted all the vendors yet.

And as mentioned upthread, the driving is really well done. The vehicle handling and physics are on par with a dedicated driving game. I find myself blowing off the fast travel (unless I'm in a hurry to get to a big Arkfall) because the driving is so much fun. I'll switch from my (faster) buggy to my more maneuverable quad sometimes, because the latter is really fun to jump...big air! The vehicles do nasty damage to enemies, too...but take damage themselves in the process.

[FatherXmas]

Due to the tie-in with the TV show, one that NBC Universal/Comcast has spent a lot of money on, I've seen the commercial for the game so often for so long on the NBC family of networks or Comcast's own commercial time slice when I visit my folks (they got a puppy, guess who puppy sits?) that I can't hear Radioactive by Imagine Dragons anymore without thinking of this game/series.

I'm seriously starting to hate this song along with the songs used in Apple and Microsoft commercials.  Why have you sold out alternative rock, why?

Edit:  I finally watched the official music video for that song.  Muppet/stuff animal fight club certainly changes the image I conjured now when I hear the song.

[Dollhouse]

Something I forgot to update: roleplayers and others seeking a more social sort of experience are going to struggle to make it work. The game's chat tools are rudimentary at best (a legacy of the interface being a console port, maybe?). The text box it tiny (and you can't move it where you want it), there are no filters, so stuff that you don't care about causes stuff you DO care about to scroll into oblivion almost as soon as they appear. Team seeking tools are also horrible (although the auto-matchmaking for co-op missions works fine).

It's a pity, really. If they just had a good, configurable chat tool, the game might work well for roleplayers and other social players. the game world is well filled out (and looks great), the TV tie-in has lots of potential, and the game does a lot of other multiplayer stuff (like scaling) quite well. Multiple players in open-world type missions aren't competing for target enemies and such: the game automatically "quasi-teams" you with the other players in the area. You're not in each other's team list, but any completion of a glowie or targeted enemy kill counts for everyone. You find yourself rolling through an objective engaging in what is often effective (and fun) impromptu teamwork. Which is cool.

Enjoying the game immensely...but it's not going to be a candidate for "main MMO" for me unless the vastly improve the social tools. TSW is still filling that role for me.

[General Idiot]

Enjoying the game immensely...but it's not going to be a candidate for "main MMO" for me unless the vastly improve the social tools. TSW is still filling that role for me.

This is something you could say about almost every MMO out there, though. So many games provide rudimentary tools at best for finding and meeting up with other players, and very little to do once you get to them. As a particularly notable example, before I stopped playing Guild Wars 2 the preferred method of finding a team was to go to an out of game website and post an ad there. This is because the game's options for finding a team if you happen to not be in a guild (Like everyone I know there) are basically limited to spamming chat and hoping there's people in the same zone as you who happen to want to do the same thing as you. No global chat, no search option, no queues. Yet they call it an MMO.

Perfect MMO for me is one where teaming is encouraged at every moment, but never required. Not only when the devs decide 'ok, this bit will be for teams'. Only game I've ever encountered with that kind of setup was CoH.

[Harlequin565]

[dwturducken]

I enjoy the show, and I find the tie-in interesting, in theory, but I have reservations about the game that I can't really articulate. Basically, it's a huge risk for all concerned, particularly the players. What happens to the game if the show is cancelled? (So far, it has already been picked up for a second season.) Some of the tie-in elements seem a little forced. The place where the show really challenges my suspension of disbelief is as a car guy: "Chrysler products are the only cars to survive the alien apocalypse?"

[Dollhouse]

I enjoy the show, and I find the tie-in interesting, in theory, but I have reservations about the game that I can't really articulate. Basically, it's a huge risk for all concerned, particularly the players. What happens to the game if the show is cancelled? (So far, it has already been picked up for a second season.) Some of the tie-in elements seem a little forced. The place where the show really challenges my suspension of disbelief is as a car guy: "Chrysler products are the only cars to survive the alien apocalypse?"

Yeah, it's not a perfect tie-in, to be sure...but it works well enough to keep me engaged and entertained. I started watching the show when it started (episodes are free online about a day after they air, for us no-TV folks), and I think it and the game reinforce each other reasonably well.

I have to reiterate my earlier comments that the game's rudimentary (although slightly improved a couple patches ago) social tools prevent it from being a good "main" game for roleplayers or those used to a more social MMO-type experience. I have literally NEVER teamed outside the auto-teaming that happens in co-op instances (which are fun).  A pity, as the game has tremendous potential as an MMOTPS, with its vivid world and superlative gameplay...but such is the disadvantage of games that have to accommodate consoles as well as PCs.

I play a bit most every day, sometimes longish sessions, sometimes not (look for "Red Molly" at an Arkfall near you!). I love the "good combat and no endless running around from point-to-point" alternative when I get frustrated with SWTOR, which my crew from Pinnacle server dragged me into while they wait for more TSW content to drop.*  It's a good game...and I enjoy the show quite a bit.

*I'd be happy just doing "mundane" stuff and repeating some of the content in TSW, just like I did in CoH, but I either have to do so alone, or actually force myself to meet new people, something I'm not always good about doing! =P

[AlphaFerret]

Hey Doll,

Since you have been playing both Defiance and TSW, which one would you recommend?  I have been drifting from game to game since the shutdown, and need to find a home until our City returns.

Thanks for any info;)

[Dollhouse]

Hey Doll,

Since you have been playing both Defiance and TSW, which one would you recommend?  I have been drifting from game to game since the shutdown, and need to find a home until our City returns.

Thanks for any info;)

For the sort of long-term, sink-your-teeth in experience most of us City vets love, definitely TSW. It is the most immersive MMO I've ever played (although Fallen Earth gives it a run for its money), the level-less and open-ended character development system is complicated but rewarding to mess with, the combat's quite good (even if the animations aren't...), and the writing is unmatched. The pace of content development is decent, although not as fast as before Funcom had to downsize. You don't get jerked around if you pick the F2P option, either (although I sub...).

Defiance fills a different slot for me. Prior to City (my first MMORPG), I was strictly a shooter player. As an MMOTPS with fantastic combat, Defiance lets me feed that particular jones and still provides at least a little social interaction.

If you pick either, look for "Cascadiant" in TSW* and "Red Molly" in Defiance!

* or "StraightRed," "EarlDafydd," or "JustAstrid" (All Illuminati...I'm faction-loyal in TSW!)

[AlphaFerret]

Thanks for the reply.

It sounds like TSW is the way to go.  Since I am a fan of the World of Darkness rpg setting, I have been on the fence with TSW for quite some time.  I have been trying real hard to like CO, but it just seems weightless to me for some reason.

Thanks again.