I wish there could be a SINGLE player game of this genre!

[freewaydog]

& I wish I knew how to do one, but game making is NOT my strong suit, to say the least!  I would love to see a single player open ended game where you can make choices to be the hero(ine) or villain(ness).  & totally customizable in how you look & such.  This way it could be more focused & centered on story & playing the game, no worries about pk'ing/pvp'ing, nor other player drama.  It could be YOUR game the way YOU want to play it w/o being dictated to by devs.  Something like Elder Scrolls, but w/ heroes/villains.  Anyone know how to do this?  I sure don't, frustratingly enough!  Any feedback?  Ideas?  Anything?  Thanks.

[Aggelakis]

Hah. Funny you should say that.

http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index.php/topic,7885.0.html

[freewaydog]

Thanks, I will consider it,....

[freewaydog]

Actually, is there anything else out there as well?  I don't know when this "Project: Awakened" thing will be, IF it will be,...

[Taceus Jiwede]

Not like what you are talking about.  This is probably actually about the closest thing to a CoH style single player.  I highly recommend pledging it if you are interested it looks like they could use the help and a game like that deserves to thrive.

[SerialBeggar]

6 days left and they're not even 2/5th of their goal.  It doesn't look good.

[Taceus Jiwede]

6 days left and they're not even 2/5th of their goal.  It doesn't look good.

I know   However, the KS is to raise money for a full time development team.  They plan on releasing the game no matter what, it will just come along faster and they will have more funding for some of their more out of the box ideas.

[freewaydog]

Ordinarily, I would contribute, IF it looked promising, but Idk that it does,....I'm debating,...

[Segev]

I will say this: Kickstarter won't actually take the money at all from the donors if the goal isn't met. So there's no 'risk' to donating if the goal isn't met.

[freewaydog]

I will say this: Kickstarter won't actually take the money at all from the donors if the goal isn't met. So there's no 'risk' to donating if the goal isn't met.

  You mean, I can get the $ back?

[downix]

  You mean, I can get the $ back?

Yes. Had a few KS fail to meet their goals, and I got the $$ back.

[Segev]

What Downix said. Your money is only taken by Kickstarter if the goal is met.

There are other crowdfunding sources that take it anyway; the goal is just a pencil mark that says "we'd like to get here." Those deliver on their rewards and take the money no matter what.

Whether it's wiser to run your crowdfunding on one or the other is a question of whether getting part of your goal would be sufficient to make use of the funds towards production, or not. That is, if NOT meeting your goal means the money isn't of use (perhaps because it really was a minimum value you NEEDED to take 'the next step'), go with Kickstarter. If it's "any amount will get me closer, so it's still worth it to my donors," then other sites are probably better for you.


In this case, it's Kickstarter, so donate what you can afford if you want it to have a better chance of succeeding. If it misses its goal by its deadline, you'll not be out the money.

[freewaydog]

ok I will see,...

[Taceus Jiwede]

ok I will see,...

Its good to be cautious.  A lot of people out there just want to take money.  I have become quite the follower of the game and am actually in communication with the developers because I want to be there every step of the way doing everything I can to see this game come to light.  Short of some crazy unpredictable event the game will come out no matter what they said.  This goal probably won't be met so donating now is a little bit of a moot point.  But they are publishing an article in a gaming magazine in the future.  And they have finished their UE4 demo.  So they will be most likely starting up another KS here in the future.  And that one should have more support and more things to show what you are donating your money too. I'd say keep an eye on it and decide if you are interested.  If you don't wanna play the game no point in donating heh.  Unless you have an extra $10,000 and want to help design/be a boss lol.

However I think these guys are in the same boat as us.  A game made by players for players, and they are truly looking to change the future of gaming much like we are here.  It would be nice if we could get their support they way they have gotten support from many of us.

[freewaydog]

Yeah.  It's not that I don't want to play the game or that I am not interested, I do & I am.  I just want to see this game come into play (literally!) before I decide to spend any $ w/ no guarantee that I actually WILL get the $ back, should something fall thru!  I have seen ppl really enthusiastic about creating some sort of game, or like a single player mod, or w/e at first, only to have it abandoned & lose interest.  I just do not want to be disappointed again.  I am hoping even the 2 tentative games, "Heroes & Villians" & "The Phoenix Project" don't get abandoned.

[Aggelakis]

Yeah.  It's not that I don't want to play the game or that I am not interested, I do & I am.  I just want to see this game come into play (literally!) before I decide to spend any $ w/ no guarantee that I actually WILL get the $ back, should something fall thru!  I have seen ppl really enthusiastic about creating some sort of game, or like a single player mod, or w/e at first, only to have it abandoned & lose interest.  I just do not want to be disappointed again.  I am hoping even the 2 tentative games, "Heroes & Villians" & "The Phoenix Project" don't get abandoned.

Per terms of use, Kickstarter stuff that gets funded is legally required to follow through with what was in the Kickstarter program, or refund the money donated if they can't. Indiegogo and the other sites are basically "buyer beware" - you're donating money and there's nothing in the terms of use that says you will ever get recompense for failed endeavors.

[freewaydog]

Well, just as I figured,..PA has not reached their goal at all.  They are considering doing another one,...asking for $350K, which I do NOT have & it is a lot to ask!  But, that's just me, right?

[Golden Girl]

People are starting to get a lot more wary of Kickstarter-style funding - to succeeed with it now, you really need either a well-known IP, or a knockout unique concept.

[Aggelakis]

Well, just as I figured,..PA has not reached their goal at all.  They are considering doing another one,...asking for $350K, which I do NOT have & it is a lot to ask!  But, that's just me, right?

$350K is only $12k less than their first attempt actually "obtained" (or would have obtained). Their first attempt was also a rather short campaign, as far as game fund raising goes. It looks like they're looking at doing a longer campaign this time, which makes it a lot simpler to meet their goal.

[Taceus Jiwede]

Well, just as I figured,..PA has not reached their goal at all.  They are considering doing another one,...asking for $350K, which I do NOT have & it is a lot to ask!  But, that's just me, right?

That's rather cheap actually.  For a game like this 350k isn't much of anything.  Plus split that among 6000-7000 people and that isn't asking for much.  I hope they can reach their goal this time, but I got my $100 back so I am ready to donate again.  Hopefully the next one is like some of the other KS's I have seen where they have a low goal and then end up raising over a $1,000,000.

[freewaydog]

Well it is NOT "cheap" enough for me.  I do not possess $350,000

[Taceus Jiwede]

Well it is NOT "cheap" enough for me.  I do not possess $350,000

Yes, but they are not asking specifically you for that much money.  That is their total goal they are trying to reach for everyone to donate total.  So if that is 350,000 people donating $1 each then it works.

[freewaydog]

Oh, ok!

[Justice Blues]

I would like to point out, you do not "Get your money back" if a Kickstarter project fails to meet its goal. The card you use is not charged unless it does reach the goal. When you pledge there, you are saying, "If enough money is pledged to total the set goal, I will pay X amount. If the goal is not reached, I will pay nothing."

I know of at least one project where people started canceling their pledges, because it was almost over and they thought it would not make the goal. They thought they would get charged either way, and didn't want to pay unless it made it. Which is exactly what would have happened. Except so many people did that, the project ended up just short of their goal. It is scary how many people use that platform and have no idea how it works.

[JaguarX]

I would like to point out, you do not "Get your money back" if a Kickstarter project fails to meet its goal. The card you use is not charged unless it does reach the goal. When you pledge there, you are saying, "If enough money is pledged to total the set goal, I will pay X amount. If the goal is not reached, I will pay nothing."

I know of at least one project where people started canceling their pledges, because it was almost over and they thought it would not make the goal. They thought they would get charged either way, and didn't want to pay unless it made it. Which is exactly what would have happened. Except so many people did that, the project ended up just short of their goal. It is scary how many people use that platform and have no idea how it works.

Wish they made it a bit more clear and easy to find on the website. Ut took me word of mouth and searching through the website to learn that tidbit. In a world where people don't have time to read EULAs like I do, its easily overlooked and looks vague on what happens to the cash if goal isn't met.

[SerialBeggar]

The thing to also keep in mind is that even if the goal is met and the project is funded, there is no guarantee that the project organizer can or will follow through with completing their project.  Or even if they will send you the promised incentive swag.  For example, there are many anecdotes of projects where the organizer didn't realize how much just the postage was going to cost or the amount of time and man power needed to process the incentives which cuts into time available to work on their project leading to delays.  Of course, the project leader could also apologize profusely a few months later, claiming "unforeseen difficulties" and disappears. 

[Taceus Jiwede]

The thing to also keep in mind is that even if the goal is met and the project is funded, there is no guarantee that the project organizer can or will follow through with completing their project.  Or even if they will send you the promised incentive swag.  For example, there are many anecdotes of projects where the organizer didn't realize how much just the postage was going to cost or the amount of time and man power needed to process the incentives which cuts into time available to work on their project leading to delays.  Of course, the project leader could also apologize profusely a few months later, claiming "unforeseen difficulties" and disappears.

I believe Kickstarter actually requires that they do keep their word on everything they promise, I am not %100 but I think anything you said you would do on Kickstarter has to be done, part of the contract.  There is a lot of shady companies out there that will rob you in a second.  Kickstarter isn't one of these companies though.

I, at the very  least haven't heard a KS not coming through with everything that was promised.

Also if you donate money anywhere ever, you should never donate more then you are willing to loose.  Either way you aren't seeing that money again unless it has a refund policy or if they keep their word you get a product in exchange for your money.  Kickstarter has done a good job at getting projects funded and released and has a outstanding track record.  However that doesn't change that there are bad one out there and that is why you should never donate more then you are willing to spend in a single night at the bar, or movies, or restaurant or whatever it is that fancies your wallet.

[Aggelakis]

The thing to also keep in mind is that even if the goal is met and the project is funded, there is no guarantee that the project organizer can or will follow through with completing their project.  Or even if they will send you the promised incentive swag.  For example, there are many anecdotes of projects where the organizer didn't realize how much just the postage was going to cost or the amount of time and man power needed to process the incentives which cuts into time available to work on their project leading to delays.  Of course, the project leader could also apologize profusely a few months later, claiming "unforeseen difficulties" and disappears.

Taceus is correct.

If a KS can't follow through, they are required by their contract to refund anybody for anything that can't be done, or to give an equivalent-or-better reward in its place.

[SerialBeggar]

How can they enforce it, though?  How can they verify that the project organizer made a good faith effort on the project as opposed to hitting the slots in Vegas with the project funds?  How can they squeeze the monies back from a deadbeat project?

[Aggelakis]

How can they enforce it, though?  How can they verify that the project organizer made a good faith effort on the project as opposed to hitting the slots in Vegas with the project funds?  How can they squeeze the monies back from a deadbeat project?

...it's a legal contract. KS can go after them in court.

[Justice Blues]

Wish they made it a bit more clear and easy to find on the website. Ut took me word of mouth and searching through the website to learn that tidbit. In a world where people don't have time to read EULAs like I do, its easily overlooked and looks vague on what happens to the cash if goal isn't met.

Well, at the top of every page on the site is a link called "What is Kickstarter" which takes you to a FAQ page. The second question is "How does Kickstarter work?" And the second paragraph says flat out that if the goal is not met, no money is taken. I don't see how much more they can do short of putting it on every page in bright red.

I, at the very  least haven't heard a KS not coming through with everything that was promised.

I have heard of a few. And while Kickstarter does have terms that say the creator must fulfill their obligations, Kickstarter stays out of it if there are problems. As far as they are concerned, it is between the creator and the backers, good luck working it out. They spell it out on the FAQ page I mentioned above, under Accountability.

How can they enforce it, though?  How can they verify that the project organizer made a good faith effort on the project as opposed to hitting the slots in Vegas with the project funds?  How can they squeeze the monies back from a deadbeat project?

They don't. They do not get involved once they project is funded and the creator has the money. Under the Creator's section of the FAQ, they mention that non-fulfillment of rewards could lead to legal action between the creator and the backer.

I have a couple of projects that I figure will never give out their rewards, and one that is iffy right now due to legal issues. But that is a pretty good rate of return for the number of projects I back, so I'm not too upset about it.

[JaguarX]

Well, at the top of every page on the site is a link called "What is Kickstarter" which takes you to a FAQ page. The second question is "How does Kickstarter work?" And the second paragraph says flat out that if the goal is not met, no money is taken. I don't see how much more they can do short of putting it on every page in bright red.

What is kickstarter. Yes you must click on that to go to the FAQ oage but what is kick starter is not a question which is associated with what happens to the money. And not like the link is big and bold. How does kickstarter should be it's own link highly visable not a sub link in what is kickstarter. Seeing that even though I eventually click on it was "I know what kickstarter is but what happes to the money."

Really outside being in big bold red letters it should at least be it's own link not some sub link as if it's not important. Hell, if anything WHat is kickstarter should be sub link and How does kickstarter work should be the main link.

But clearity is different for different people. To me EULAs are very clear and precise while to others, the actions taken in the EULA that have been stated somehow come to as a shock and "out of the blue". I guess to each it's own. Different people different ways of processing information. Like some people learn better visually, others by oral, others on their own, and etc.

[freewaydog]

WELL, we all know how "successful" (NOT!!!) http://projectawakened.com/ turned out to be!!!!  Again, I ask, how can I get a single player game where I can control the outcome & story?

[Golden Girl]

WELL, we all know how "successful" (NOT!!!) http://projectawakened.com/ turned out to be!!!!

Unless you're a "name" in the gaming industry, then you really need to do more than slap together some concept art, a few quick shots of demo gamplay and a talking heads video promising the world - otherwise, you just look incompetent and/or dishonest.

[freewaydog]

& yet this thread promotes this false game. 

[AlabasterKnight]

Unless you're a "name" in the gaming industry, then you really need to do more than slap together some concept art, a few quick shots of demo gamplay and a talking heads video promising the world - otherwise, you just look incompetent and/or dishonest.

I must respectfully disagree; even the "names" have to do the legwork. It takes a lot of resources and planning to produce a game on any sort of timetable that keeps you relevant to the target audience/market. There are many hurdles in communication, focus, alignment, and accountability to get to an end product.

Fame is no guarantee. It's all about resources, organization and commitment.
AK

[Golden Girl]

I must respectfully disagree; even the "names" have to do the legwork. It takes a lot of resources and planning to produce a game on any sort of timetable that keeps you relevant to the target audience/market. There are many hurdles in communication, focus, alignment, and accountability to get to an end product.

Fame is no guarantee. It's all about resources, organization and commitment.
AK

"Project Awakened" was showing off far more stuff than "Camelot Unchained" - but Camelot Unchained comes with a name and the creditibiilty and track record attached to the name.
"Shroud of the Avatar" is also long on promises, short on actual game footage or screenshots, and what little they have shown is shockingly poor quality - but because it comes with a name, it generates trust and belief.
As another example, if a couple of gamers said they wanted to kickstart a classic RPG, they'd need to do a heck of a lot of work to have a hope of meeting their goal - but if the 2 ex-Bioware doctors came out of retirement and said they wanted to kickstart a classic RPG, they'd have to do considerably less work to generate interest in the project.

Plus, there's nothing like the "failed kickstarter" tag to weaken credibility in a project.

[Aggelakis]

& yet this thread promotes this false game. 

It's... not a false game. It's a real game, in semi-active development (these people all have day jobs), that repeatedly couldn't make its funding goals to allow full-active development. You seem to be under some sort of mistaken concept about what kind of thing it was from the beginning (evidenced by your initial reaction that we expected *YOU* to put up 350 thousand dollars. LMAO)

[downix]

"Project Awakened" was showing off far more stuff than "Camelot Unchained" - but Camelot Unchained comes with a name and the creditibiilty and track record attached to the name.
"Shroud of the Avatar" is also long on promises, short on actual game footage or screenshots, and what little they have shown is shockingly poor quality - but because it comes with a name, it generates trust and belief.
As another example, if a couple of gamers said they wanted to kickstart a classic RPG, they'd need to do a heck of a lot of work to have a hope of meeting their goal - but if the 2 ex-Bioware doctors came out of retirement and said they wanted to kickstart a classic RPG, they'd have to do considerably less work to generate interest in the project.

Plus, there's nothing like the "failed kickstarter" tag to weaken credibility in a project.

Not really. Project Awakened showed off very little if you broke it down, but they showed it off well. They had a few abilities, sure, but they only had one zone, a few models, but what they did with it was impressive. It also is an all new title without an existing fan base.

Both Camelot Unchained and Shroud of the Avatar come with an existing fan base, being in effect sequels (even if SotA could not name it directly) to existing, highly popular titles. Both also had a massive media sweep associated with them. Camelot Unchained presented many times the amount of material which Project Awakened did, and did so on dozens of popular websites across the internet.

[Golden Girl]

Both also had a massive media sweep associated with them.

That's what a gaming name brings with it.

[freewaydog]

It's... not a false game. It's a real game, in semi-active development (these people all have day jobs), that repeatedly couldn't make its funding goals to allow full-active development. You seem to be under some sort of mistaken concept about what kind of thing it was from the beginning (evidenced by your initial reaction that we expected *YOU* to put up 350 thousand dollars. LMAO)

Yeah sry about that, that $350 thing was my mistake,...