Community-Built COH Style MMORPG

[Rotten Luck]

Is it challenging to dodge?

Depends on how far the drive has the gas pedal down!

[downix]

Is it challenging to dodge?

I just meant how Dodge re-introduced the Challenger, using a retro-styling, even retro-controls. It is a modern car, but its styling cues are solidly grounded in the muscle car era.

[Nebularian]

Ooops.   Sorry to come into this a bit late...but it looks like Nightmarer has kept up my end for me  ;D

Let me see if I can clear some things up.

If you look at my posts you will see an underlying theme...I say a clone and that instantly gets nixed....I have tried a couple of times to compare a clone as the cement that will hold the community together until either/or TPP/HaV are ready to roll out their new endeavors.   I do not expect anything playable from either team for at least a few years. I don't want either team to rush it. Take your time, do it right.   BUT, if there is NOT something there to bridge what we have lost to what will come....then during that time it takes to develop these new games, all but the most hardcore members of this community will start to drift away.

I know that it would be nice to say that "no...we'll all still be here"  but I think we all know that is not realistic.

Once those people drift, they are gone.  By the time you DO roll out a TPP or HaV game, you will NOT have anything that sits you apart from CO and DCUO EXCEPT game mechanics.  That might be enough...it might not. Sooner or later, COH refugees are going to start plopping money down for these other games (yes, I know some do already...I am talking about those like myself that refuse to pay for another game I cannot play offline as well.  - though I HAVE promised myself that while I would try to convince both TPP and HaV to have some offline content, I WOULD give their games a try unless I am totally turned off by the outcome.)  These people WILL have made their new homes.  Your games will just be two more Super hero games to them and to the rest of the gaming community.

Right now, I do believe there is enough of the COH community still together (and, again, I am not talking just about those here on these boards) that both TPP and HaV would be able to get a good start....the problem is....keeping that community together long enough for you to do your thing.   That is what I am trying to accomplish here.

I have seen it said here that it would take just as long to create a clone as to make a completely new game from scratch. I apologize, but I am still not convinced of that.  Frankly, I think if you guys can get a new game out in the same amount of time it takes to engineer a clone, then you have probably rushed your new game too much. I would rather you not rush and get it right.

Basically....I am begging you guys to come up with SOMETHING concrete that will act as a bridge between COH and your games...something that will keep the community together besides words. Even if it is helping out whatever is going on with SEGS (which is something I really have to look into). uh...just to be clear, I am NOT asking for ANYONE to do anything illegal  (and I damned sure wouldn't ask you to post on here if you WERE...LOL)

I will say this....I saw something on the Justice forum that caused me to write them off right off the bat. (No separation of heroes and villains?  Really?) 

I am pleased to see what is planned, Segev, though I would like a little clarification on what exactly this "freeform" that has been discussed with TPP is about...from what I have seen, that would be a deal breaker for me.

[r00tb0ySlim]

BUT, if there is NOT something there to bridge what we have lost to what will come....then during that time it takes to develop these new games, all but the most hardcore members of this community will start to drift away.

I understand what you are getting at here Dylan and I am trying STO and Team Fortress 2 (maybe even Neverwinter); however, I will be one of the hardcore members that jump right back into the successor.  Now about that new Dodge Challenger.......

[downix]

I am pleased to see what is planned, Segev, though I would like a little clarification on what exactly this "freeform" that has been discussed with TPP is about...from what I have seen, that would be a deal breaker for me.

CoH had a similar "Freeform" system to TPP as well.

We called them Kheldians or Arachnos Soldiers.

[Nebularian]

CoH had a similar "Freeform" system to TPP as well.

We called them Kheldians or Arachnos Soldiers.

oh great...I hated them LOL

[downix]

oh great...I hated them LOL

And are also easy to not play, yes?

But there are people who did enjoy them. Rather than try to shoehorn what is, when you get down to it, a freeform archetype into some epic storyline, call it what it is, and let the players develop it from where how they wish. It's for some players, not for all.

[JaguarX]

CoH had a similar "Freeform" system to TPP as well.

We called them Kheldians or Arachnos Soldiers.

I wouldnt go as far to say that Kheldian or arachnos were freeform. More like a few choices within an AT. Which is really how the rest of the ATs should have been done but that is another time another thread.

Khelds seems like a light version of the multiple build thing in CO.

But yeah, either direction has it's risk, work, times that ya want to put ya fist or cpu through a wall, and times that are happy times, and times when ya want to strangle someone. Ever wonder why it took so long to bring out the redesigned Challenger? Overall, the outside world see the end result, another retro sports car and some remember the concept car. The idea of a new Challenger go as far back as at least late 80s early 90s, but like we are doing now, the question of how to make it like the old Challenger but update. The final product we see is only the end result of thousands of concepts, drawings, tweaks, ideas thrown out, etc. Originally, the interior was supposed to be even more retro and exclusive to the Challenger but at last minute decided to go with the current "company" interior look. Many people was pissed, many thought Chrysler group pulled a switch and bait, but overall, from the looks the car gained success even new people became interested that never knew the Challenger existed decades ago. By Chrysler's standards the Challenger was a success even though they lost a few of the more hardcore people over the interior. About a year ago, there was talks of discontinuing the Challenger because it is approaching the end of the production time but they are not sure how to update the styling while keeping it a Challenger. An idea was thrown around (havent checked on progress) that they might be bringing out a 70s themed Barracuda package and front end look (Although Plymouth enthuse probably will scream murder (even though Plymouth, Dodge, Chrysler are usually the sme cars anyways but hey, people get stuck on names) although the famous 70 Cuda shared the same platform when the 70s Challenger). Replacing something that was very good is not very easy as there are some people to this day think that even the Challenger swayed too much from the original. Regardless of what happe ns, there will be people that will say it's not the same or not true to the spirit. Just have tomake a choice to go for greater success while keeping the purpose and theme.

[Nebularian]

And are also easy to not play, yes?

But there are people who did enjoy them. Rather than try to shoehorn what is, when you get down to it, a freeform archetype into some epic storyline, call it what it is, and let the players develop it from where how they wish. It's for some players, not for all.

You are right...they were easy to not play LOL.  And, if TPP makes it all like those, it will be easy to not play as well :)  Now if you are talking about making it like COH was...ie certain types are like the kheldans...but others are like the normal COH ATs..that is a different matter.  But if you are doing away with the COH style ATs and making everything like the Kheldans, then you have already gone too far astray for my tastes.

Hey, I understand that you can't please all the people all the time.... :) Just talking from my perspective, I won't pay to play something like that and I won't support the development of a game like that, but I know others will....this is where we get to that personal choice thing Segev was talking about :)

[Nebularian]

I should point out that I have been to the MWM forum and seen what has been said about the Freeform AT and it appears there is still a bit of disagreement there. While some are seemingly pushing for CO style freeform (or better), others are using the same arguments I would against freeform. So I guess it is not a done deal yet :)

[Segev]

There already is an effort in motion to make a hold-over type of thing, here on the Titan Networks. At least, that's my understanding. We're not doing that, though insofar as Titan's people are doing nothing illegal (and I don't think they are, but I'm not part of their projects), we support them in spirit.

The Phoenix Project also is planning to release "mini-game" aspects of the greater game experience as time goes on, starting with - we're planning by the middle of 2014 - a fully-functional character creator.

We are keeping in mind the need to keep the community gelled around something; this is our current goal. We think that trying to rush out a "clone" of CoH would take at least this long, if not longer, so we're better off building things in sequence as they build up into a full game.

As far as "kheldian" style freeform, pushing that direction would push for it as an option, much as kheldians were an option, but you could still play the other ATs. We'll have both available, going down that route. (As Dylan has noted, there's still a lot of discussion on it; our Game Architecture people are working on things, but the particulars of this are not yet to a point where there's anything to 'unveil.' It'd be like asking Chef Ramsey to unveil his newest restaurant's full menu when he's still deciding if it's an Italian or French bistro. Sure, there are a lot of ingredients he could unveil, as there are similarities, but it would only lead to more confusion as the particulars just aren't in place yet.)

[Nebularian]

our Game Architecture people are working on things, but the particulars of this are not yet to a point where there's anything to 'unveil.' It'd be like asking Chef Ramsey to unveil his newest restaurant's full menu when he's still deciding if it's an Italian or French bistro. Sure, there are a lot of ingredients he could unveil, as there are similarities, but it would only lead to more confusion as the particulars just aren't in place yet.)

Understood, Segev.  Please note that, whether I agree or not which direction any of you go....you ALL still have my respect. (LOL and I am quite aware that my agreement means nada...but hey LOl).  Just because I may not like the way things go does not mean others won't  and I damned sure won't trying to dissuade people...I will simply state why I don't like it (if I end up not liking it, that is) and leave it at that.    And I noted earlier that I would not support a game I did not agree with...by that I meant financially.   I do not mean that I will be bad mouthing you LOL.  Hell, I can't stand CO but I still have a link to it on my page LOL   Think I would do less for TPP?  :D

[downix]

You are right...they were easy to not play LOL.  And, if TPP makes it all like those, it will be easy to not play as well :)  Now if you are talking about making it like COH was...ie certain types are like the kheldans...but others are like the normal COH ATs..that is a different matter.  But if you are doing away with the COH style ATs and making everything like the Kheldans, then you have already gone too far astray for my tastes.

Hey, I understand that you can't please all the people all the time.... :) Just talking from my perspective, I won't pay to play something like that and I won't support the development of a game like that, but I know others will....this is where we get to that personal choice thing Segev was talking about :)

Absolutely under no circumstances are we getting rid of the regular AT's. Expanding, building upon them, yes, but getting rid of, absolutely not.

As for freeform, that's one of the options on the table. Freeform is at a state of, as I like to call it, "flux."  There is talk of it, but the headaches in doing it makes it a low priority at this point. The aim is on the regular AT's.

[Rotten Luck]

As much as I want a bridge as well.  I can see the need TPP , HaV, and Justice need to have new flair as well.

Already the community is going to other games.  Champions and DC aside others have gone to The Secret World.  Neverwinter and Elderscrolls seem to have caught people attention including mine.

In order to get not just our members back together but new members in enough to make the new games self sustaining.  Triple so if all three Plan Z operations make it.  With out new systems and new means of gaining players we might not get enough to keep any of the games running.

[Blue Pulsar]

A freeform power system goes against the comic book genre on a fundamental level - the majority of comic book characters are defined by their power sets, which extends to their names and their outfits.

Bravo, GG, bravo. I couldn't agree more.

[Blue Pulsar]

As I have mentioned in other threads, I will most likely be playing the game that is the most like City of Heroes from the standpoint of the actually playstyle. It's not that the lore holds no interest for me, it's just that it is not what made CoX the best game ever for me. They way the characters were built, designed, played, and leveled is important. To me, I want a new game to simply feel like a new zone, not re-design my toons and my favorite powersets. I liked the UI, I liked my power tray, I liked inspirations, I like the invention system and all other different type of enhancement sets, and I DEFINITELY liked the Incarnate system. As long as these can be found (in some form of "incarnation" or another) you will find me in that game.

In fact, it kind of seems odd to me that a group of people who are so passionate about the game, no... the City they lost, but that they would want to see such drastic changes in the way their new game is played. Probably the most glaring aspect is the transition from ATs to freeform. Anyway, just my $0.02.

[downix]

As I have mentioned in other threads, I will most likely be playing the game that is the most like City of Heroes from the standpoint of the actually playstyle. It's not that the lore holds no interest for me, it's just that it is not what made CoX the best game ever for me. They way the characters were built, designed, played, and leveled is important. To me, I want a new game to simply feel like a new zone, not re-design my toons and my favorite powersets. I liked the UI, I liked my power tray, I liked inspirations, I like the invention system and all other different type of enhancement sets, and I DEFINITELY liked the Incarnate system. As long as these can be found (in some form of "incarnation" or another) you will find me in that game.

In fact, it kind of seems odd to me that a group of people who are so passionate about the game, no... the City they lost, but that they would want to see such drastic changes in the way their new game is played. Probably the most glaring aspect is the transition from ATs to freeform. Anyway, just my $0.02.

Well, as neither H&V nor TPP have transitioned from ATs to freeform, I am curious who has....

[Nebularian]

Probably my fault, downix.
I heard/read some talk else where (probably by freeform enthusiasts) that led me to believe it was a done deal and I shot off my mouth....er...fingers...before getting the facts.My apologes. I should have checked first (don't know why I didn't....unusual for me.)

[Nightmarer]

I guess we have the freeform concept because we were under the impression TPP was going to be CoH's successor and in that sense, we were (at least I was) very surprised that any freeform talk was not disregarded from the very start or firmly reconducted to be like Kheldians and Arachnos Soldiers since pretty much any other kind of freeform would make it much akin to CO than to CoH.
If memory serves, full freeform was one of CO's biggest selling points.

If freeform is kept as an option and that option means a couple ATs with more power choice flexibility like Kheldians and Arachnos were, that'd be awesome however, if having freeform as an option means whoever wants to stick with regular ATs is free to do so while whoever wants to design, dunno, let's say a Fire Blaster with Granite Armor is also free to do so, then it's a no deal for me since any AT will be subpar on a team of minmaxed optimized clones of whatever freeform powerset combination (who knows, maybe Fire Blasters on Granite Armor).-

[Rotten Luck]

Playing CO with Freeform all my characters are FF.  I have to say I often follow the AT set.  One of the rare changes is just style not Minmax.  Example is some Weaponless MA punching mixed into the Might fist fighting.

I thought of a few stories in comics where a character could be consider having a Freeform AT.  Spawn thought a magic based unholy spawn of hell has used Guns.

Batman gained use of a Yellow Ring and in a silver age comic even had flight.  Not to mention becoming a Vampire in one of the Cartoons.  Game wise we can call these temp powers for he didn't keep them.

Superman also had a reroll into the electric Blue/red superman.  Thought we can argue that those are more rerolling then an Freeform AT.

Spiderman with the powers of a spider uses Gadgets.  His web slingers are tech base and are the spider tracers.  In the cartoon Ultimate Spiderman he had a spiderbike.  I think we can class Spiderman as a Free form primary Insect/spider Scrapper with Gadget powers mixed in.

Edited to include ideas of the comic characters.