Author Topic: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...  (Read 19168 times)

SerialBeggar

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #40 on: January 24, 2013, 12:04:03 AM »
When it first came out, the Hero Respec was challenging and fun.  However, after too many teams were defeated, it was nerfed.

Rather than give people enough to fly back from the IP hospital, they should have put a first aid station in one of the rooms in the reactor building.

I haven't thought through every one, but my impression was that, originally, all final TF mission doors were set at least 1 mile away from the nearest Hospital and all final Trial mission doors were set at least 1 zone away from the nearest Hospital.  I noticed this was stealth changed when final mission doors that used to be in a Hazard zone were now consistently at a City zone.  Then of course, they put in Field Hospitals everywhere and made it all moot.
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saipaman

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #41 on: January 24, 2013, 01:20:10 AM »
There was a very strong tendency in the early years of the game to do just what you described -- put as much travel time between the player and places the player needed to be.

Another example being contacts in different zones than the missions they handed out.

Synodontis

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #42 on: January 24, 2013, 04:00:16 AM »
Those Council maps annoyed the heck out of me.  The best (worst?) thing ever was when I had my laptop on in an airplane, with Internet allowance (WOW!  SO COOL!), and I was running my Bonavox around in one of those maps.  Then my laptop lost power.  Agh!

Circle of Thorns maps sucked too.  Never played one of those thousands of feet in the air though!  :)


Primantis

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #43 on: January 24, 2013, 06:47:15 AM »
There was a very strong tendency in the early years of the game to do just what you described -- put as much travel time between the player and places the player needed to be.

Another example being contacts in different zones than the missions they handed out.

Eh, after playing FFXI for years (where travel time would range from 15 minutes to an hour, depending on the situation/luck with airships), travel time has always felt super quick in CoH.

Hell, by the time you traversed from one end of a major city to the other in FFXI you probably could have traveled through several consecutive zones on CoH, using Sprint! xD.


Regardless, that did get irritating. Especially running legacy content.


dwturducken

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #44 on: January 24, 2013, 08:28:58 PM »
Those Council maps annoyed the heck out of me.  The best (worst?) thing ever was when I had my laptop on in an airplane, with Internet allowance (WOW!  SO COOL!), and I was running my Bonavox around in one of those maps.  Then my laptop lost power.  Agh!

Circle of Thorns maps sucked too.  Never played one of those thousands of feet in the air though!  :)

Anyone else thinking "Mile High Club?" ;)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

JaguarX

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #45 on: January 24, 2013, 08:56:21 PM »
Those Council maps annoyed the heck out of me.  The best (worst?) thing ever was when I had my laptop on in an airplane, with Internet allowance (WOW!  SO COOL!), and I was running my Bonavox around in one of those maps.  Then my laptop lost power.  Agh!

Circle of Thorns maps sucked too.  Never played one of those thousands of feet in the air though!  :)

Never did like those CoT maps. It seemed like someone got carried away with the design and or was trying to show off.

Wish that, as many CoT missions there were, they had a more interesting background instead of being a mere collection of netherworld summoned things and mages that have a library that Azuria liked to send heroes to raid often.  It's like many of their missions were just trown into some arcs just for the hell of it. An arc where it's about stopping council? Somehow ya have to have a CoT mish. Beating up gangsters, somehow CoT have to try to sacrifce someone and ya have to save them. Didnt even view them as a real threat but a group that liked to be into everything but more like another annoyance for petty missions with big maps. Although one of their arcs, think about level 30 or so was pretty good and seemed to have a purpose. Over exposure, and maps taht was too big for no apparent reason it seems besides to show wha ta dev can do with too much time on their hands.

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #46 on: January 25, 2013, 03:54:16 PM »
Never did like those CoT maps. It seemed like someone got carried away with the design and or was trying to show off.
You took the thoughts right out of my mind.  A lot of the Circle of Thorns maps just struck me as pretty to look at and maybe wander through, but an absolute slog to actually play in, once they're populated with enemies.  Those narrow corridors really don't help at all when you're at +4x8 and they're absolutely stuffed to the brim with mages and ghosts and behemoth demons that don't even fit in the corridors.

I also agree that they're overused.  Every time you needed to retrieve a magic artifact, or find a mystic tome, or learn the counterspell to some ancient curse, you're always, always being sent to Oranbega and a CoT mish.  There was almost no other mystic group; why not take the Mu Mystics out of Arachnos and give them their own faction?  Or maybe, on redside, develop the Legacy Chain a bit more, and maybe give them their own architecture and story arcs?  Maybe give the Banished Pantheon a bit more exposure at lower levels (I do appreciate that the Banished Pantheon got a LOT more exposure and development in the incarnate content, but they really kinda come outta nowhere.  Striga Isle is your first real exposure to them blueside, and not everyone plays Striga.  they don't recieve ANY character building and attention prior to Dark Astoria and incarnate content.)

Point being, Circle of Thorns was too complicated, too focused on being pretty rather than being fun, and way, way too overexposed.

srmalloy

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #47 on: January 25, 2013, 04:13:37 PM »
I also agree that they're overused.  Every time you needed to retrieve a magic artifact, or find a mystic tome, or learn the counterspell to some ancient curse, you're always, always being sent to Oranbega and a CoT mish.  There was almost no other mystic group; why not take the Mu Mystics out of Arachnos and give them their own faction?

You don't even need to take the Mu Mystics out of Arachnos; just create a small set of low-end Mu 'support staff' -- people who have Mu ancestry, but who either arent's strong enough to be Mystics or haven't qualified for the process of being inducted into the Mystics (loosely analogous to the Soldiers of Arachnos character AT), so you don't have entire maps full of nothing but lightning-flingers, and if you wanted to go all-out with it create a tileset distinct from the Arachnos base tileset that is themed around the Mu (and then re-skin it for the Legacy Chain for their own dedicated missions).

LadyShin

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #48 on: January 26, 2013, 11:37:59 PM »
Ugly then...Malta caves, dimensional portal missions, finding the last glowy in Oranbega...

Flying through what seemed like hours of the Devouring Earth's city-caves...

Attempting to navigate through Dark Astoria...Without travel powers.

Fighting Reichsman and attempting to break up his deal with the other AV's...and Dying. and dying...and respawning...and dying...and dying..

And FFS, people crowding around Atlas' feet hollering for another DFB/DIB!!  :o  :gonk:

....But to be honest, that last was nostalgic even then!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2013, 11:57:06 PM by LadyShin »
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Victoria Victrix

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #49 on: January 27, 2013, 02:31:48 AM »
Oh what I would give to wander through the biggest, most boring CoT map with a fender, chewing away at the Thorns one at a time....
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caine6900

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #50 on: January 27, 2013, 05:44:02 PM »
I loved to log on to Beta and use my Bio Armor Martial artist tanker and help people get the unvieler badge, I would do that on Victory server as well with my other tanker Street justice /Willpower.

Colette

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #51 on: January 27, 2013, 11:43:01 PM »
I always played the melee classes. Loved 'em. Loved "bodyguarding" the squishies.

Now I wanna be part of an all corr team, with the difficulty levels set higher and higher as we go. Do such teams need a tanker to take down an AV, or do the buffs make 'em all unstoppable?

Today I miss this game more than I ever thought I would.

Aggelakis

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2013, 12:47:33 AM »
I always played the melee classes. Loved 'em. Loved "bodyguarding" the squishies.

Now I wanna be part of an all corr team, with the difficulty levels set higher and higher as we go. Do such teams need a tanker to take down an AV, or do the buffs make 'em all unstoppable?

Today I miss this game more than I ever thought I would.
Support powersets all break the game when you get more than a couple on a team. Instead of additive (a scrapper + a scrapper means 2 damage dealers), they are force multipliers (a defender buffs more than just himself - everyone is better with a defender on the team; the more defenders there are, the better you get (until capped :p)). A whole team of them can do pretty much any content (see also: Repeat Offenders!).

(replace defender with controller and corruptor, nearly equally game-breaking)
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JWBullfrog

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2013, 01:16:18 AM »
I always referred to controllers as 'the unfair advantage." Just one on a team was a massive force multiplier. Add in one defender as well and a team was easily capable of cranking up the difficulty a levle or three.
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Triplash

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2013, 02:01:29 AM »
I've seen some controllers with enough scrapperlock to shame a brute. And they only ever looked like they were an inch away from horrible, horrible death. But more often than not they were actually carrying the rest of the team.

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2013, 02:35:31 AM »
I've seen some controllers with enough scrapperlock to shame a brute. And they only ever looked like they were an inch away from horrible, horrible death. But more often than not they were actually carrying the rest of the team.
Oh for the love of Mike.  Now you just reminded me of my favorite old Grav/Kin 'troller.

There is nothing quite like the reaction of a squishy teammate when a bunch of enemies are about to jump her, only for them all to start spontaneously floating helplessly in the air.  Then you calmly teleport your teammate out of the midst of them as the tanks move in to clean up.

My old 'troller was a faceless insectoid alien.  He still earned hugs and bro-fists from teammates every time he pulled that stunt.

redgiant

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2013, 10:35:00 AM »
Around launch when you couldn't go 2 minutes someone inviting you to a team. Missions and street sweeping were intermixed. Teams would stay together for hours doing whatever came up on someone's mission list or just roaming, hitting PP, etc.

1. Sewer missions were hard.

2. Perez Park street sweeping was challenging, and the woods was downright dangerous.

3. The 5th Column caves, damn Valkyries would show up just when you didnt' need them to, and sometimes in the walls shooting at you but you couldn't fight back.

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2013, 04:08:10 PM »
3. The 5th Column caves, damn Valkyries would show up just when you didnt' need them to, and sometimes in the walls shooting at you but you couldn't fight back.
This is a problem throughout CoH's life, apparently.

No matter how much patching they did, right up until the end there were maps where enemies would spawn in the walls.  Sometimes, they'd spawn close enough to attack the player, but would be impossible to retaliate against.

I've found wall-spawned enemies in CoT Oranbega maps, layer-cake caves, Council/5th column cave-bases, Arachnos bases, and even one instance in a warehouse mish.  Generally, the more cramped, organic, and unorthodox the map, the more likely it would be that enemies would wind up spawned in unreachable or untargetable locations.

Now you reminded me of my first encounter with a CoH GM, way back in I8-I9.  I'd been running a Council base mish in Striga with a friend of mine, and we had to clear the map of enemies.  Unfortunately, we'd gotten down to the last lousy enemy, but it was spawned outside the map.  We contacted the GMs in-game and waited.  Eventually, about thirty minutes later, a GM showed up and started messaging me.  I explained the situation, and the GM checked into it.  The GM was invisible this whole time, but he revealed himself just before the resolution.

He appeared as a tsoo eagle enforcer, spread-eagled in the air with no animations.  He asked us if we were ready, and then warped the enemy to his location.  It was a Zenith hoverbot, and it lasted maybe two thirds of a second once it was attackable.  We thanked the GM for the prompt service and went on our way.

To this day, this is still the fastest and most thorough GM response I've ever had on a professionally-run MMO.

JaguarX

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2013, 04:19:57 PM »
This is a problem throughout CoH's life, apparently.

No matter how much patching they did, right up until the end there were maps where enemies would spawn in the walls.  Sometimes, they'd spawn close enough to attack the player, but would be impossible to retaliate against.

I've found wall-spawned enemies in CoT Oranbega maps, layer-cake caves, Council/5th column cave-bases, Arachnos bases, and even one instance in a warehouse mish.  Generally, the more cramped, organic, and unorthodox the map, the more likely it would be that enemies would wind up spawned in unreachable or untargetable locations.


And it seemed to happen always, 100% of the time for me that I noticed, on defeat all missions. Probably because non-defeat all missions I kill everythign in sight and grab objective and move on. Defeat all, that stuck in the wall mob became a obstacle to mission completion and thus got noticed then when otherwise wouldnt have been noticed.

LadyShin

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Re: Ugly then... But with a Fresh Coat of Nostalgia...
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2013, 05:39:40 PM »
-Facepalms-  :gonk:

This reminded me of the most awful experience I ever had:

Going through the Council/5th Column caves with 5 sets of pets hogging the tunnels. ARGH!!!
"Frank! It's the love boat to Cuba! Shuffle board and pineapples filled with rum. Know what they do? They put little paper umbrellas sticking out the top so that when it rains, it don't thin out the liquor."