MMORPG - COH profitability

[UruzSix]

Not to mention articles at MMO websites whenever we had a new issue, a weekly column at Massively, shout outs from Big Bang Theory...  CoH had incredible word of mouth going for it.

[Artillerie]

I remember - must have been a good 6-7 years ago - adverts for CoH in comics i had been reading, probably Marvel and/or DC/Vertigo. Double spreads every time!

[srmalloy]

Time and time again this thing about NCsoft not being capable or willing to understand their Western subsidiaries pops up and is usually followed by an in-depth analysis of cultural differences between East and West. This analysis is often based on assumption being made that Easterners act like robots: unable to deviate from cultural programming the poster has only some vague idea about.

I'm not saying that they are wrapped up so tightly in their cultural prejudices that this is why they acted that way; I'm saying that having that fixation makes their actions make more sense... from a certain point of view. However, the comments on the Glassdoor site from NCSoft employees does suggest that there is at least some cultural rigidity occurring:

People that are in charge of the Western game ports don't understand the market; they expect that what worked in Korea will work here.

Top level executive management in Korea does not understand western markets no cultural differences in employment expectations.

Let those with an understanding of the western markets and employments lead those satellite divisions

Korean culture shoved down your throat. NCsoft wasn't ready to go multinational as they fully expect to graft their Korean culture onto their U.S. workforce.

Leadership in Korea does not trust America or Europe to make their own decisions, and as a result, the decisions made reflect what Korea leadership wants to see, and not what needs to happen for the benefit of players, or the business.

[FatherXmas]

As for what ads I have seen on the web for existing MMOs? Just in the last 5 minutes, I've seen ads for SW:TOR. And this is only the second site I've been to so far.

SW:TOR just recently went F2P.  There's a reason to push up the advertising.  Also, Star Wars, Sony, it's not like they don't have the resources to spend on advertising or not get the NA marketplace.

What was telling for me was ArenaNet went out on their own and hired an ad agency to handle GW2.  Only after the game's release that NC Interactive decided maybe it was a good idea and then hired the same agency for the entire line of games.  I think that was after the "sorry charlie" PR from NCsoft about the campaign failing to change their minds.

[Valjean]

I agree that COH could have benefited from more advertising, I think it needed to be the right advertising for the right audience.

The most effective advertising pushes are going to be tied into a new launch, or a re-launch. Perhaps they could have done TV or movie commercials to promote Freedom, but even if the budget was infinite, there still needs to be a return. If it costs $5M to get a trailer to show before a movie, will you make more than $5M in subscriptions/MTXes by showing that ad? Especially if you can't guarantee that your audience even knows what an MMO is?

Maybe if you're a World of Warcraft, with hundreds of millions of customers. Or if you're launching a major new console game. But for an 8-year old game, it's hard to rationalize that high a return for such a huge investment. People generally want new things.

This is one of the reasons why you see things like banner ads, site takeovers so widely used. Not only are they cost-effective, they tend to target the general demographic you want playing your game.

I think if we did see COH commercials on TV or in the movies, it would make us as players feel better, but I don't really think it'd have as big an effect on the game itself. I think there's other forms of advertising that would be more cost effective.

[Starsman]

Spider-man 2 came out in 2004.
Batman Begins came out in 2005
Superman Returns came out in 2006.
X-Men: Last Stand came out in 2006
Spider-man 3 came out in 2007.
Hancock came out in 2008.
The Dark Knight came out in 2008.
Iron Man came out in 2008.
The Incredible Hulk came out in 2008.

There were plenty of opportunities to have had short ads for the game before a movie.

To be fair, the comic book industry itself has done a HORRENDOUS job at capitalizing on the success of these movies. I don't think any of these have been successfully turned into increased comic book sales, but then again, when was the last time you went to see a comic book movie and were handed a free comic book to get you hooked on the action?

Anyways, seems everyone has a hard time figuring out a way to tying in that movie success into parallel markets.

[Starsman]

I think that was after the "sorry charlie" PR from NCsoft about the campaign failing to change their minds.

"sorry charlie" pr from ncsoft?

[Tubbius]

I think if we did see COH commercials on TV or in the movies, it would make us as players feel better, but I don't really think it'd have as big an effect on the game itself. I think there's other forms of advertising that would be more cost effective.

There's a Guild Wars 2 ad before The Hobbit, if I remember right.  I guess they figured there was a gain there.

[Codewalker]

There's a Guild Wars 2 ad before The Hobbit, if I remember right.  I guess they figured there was a gain there.

Of course, GW2, like GW1 before it, is a "sell it to them once" game, much more comparable to games like Mass Effect or Halo than to subscription-based games.

Sure, there's the item shop, but that's just gravy. They want to recover advertising expenses in the first big wave of box purchases at release, before the sharp decline starts.

[Triplash]

Of course, GW2, like GW1 before it, is a "sell it to them once" game, much more comparable to games like Mass Effect or Halo than to subscription-based games.

Sure, there's the item shop, but that's just gravy. They want to recover advertising expenses in the first big wave of box purchases at release, before the sharp decline starts.

Hmmm. Y'know, it occurs to me... what companies ought to start doing is making games that don't inspire sharp declines in player interest.

[FatherXmas]

To be fair, the comic book industry itself has done a HORRENDOUS job at capitalizing on the success of these movies. I don't think any of these have been successfully turned into increased comic book sales, but then again, when was the last time you went to see a comic book movie and were handed a free comic book to get you hooked on the action?

Anyways, seems everyone has a hard time figuring out a way to tying in that movie success into parallel markets.

Oddly most of them.  A local comic book shop shows up during the midnight showing/opening weekend and hand out old back issues of whatever hero is on the screen.  These are either reprints of classics or random side story.  None of the big important "events".  They had a bunch of little stickers with their address in the shape of a voice bubble that they attach to the front cover.  This isn't a tiny theater but one of the 18 screen with one IMAX multiplexes run by Rave Cinemas.

[FatherXmas]

There's a Guild Wars 2 ad before The Hobbit, if I remember right.  I guess they figured there was a gain there.

dueling Santas

It really wasn't much of a commercial compared to others out there I hear.  It wasn't shown in front of my midnight 2D showing.

[Mister Bison]

dueling Santas

Man there were two santas ? How come I didn't have two lumps of coal all these years ?

[Starsman]

Oddly most of them.  A local comic book shop shows up during the midnight showing/opening weekend and hand out old back issues of whatever hero is on the screen.  These are either reprints of classics or random side story.  None of the big important "events".  They had a bunch of little stickers with their address in the shape of a voice bubble that they attach to the front cover.  This isn't a tiny theater but one of the 18 screen with one IMAX multiplexes run by Rave Cinemas.

That sounds more like the local comic shop doing what the comic publisher should have done themselves. Also: was this through the run or just opening night?

I actually would be shocked if  you told me this hapened during the entire showing, in a small theather and with the same guy that hands out 3D glasses giving y ou the free comics (also: worth making them special one-shot editions that are exclusive to the theathers.)

[FatherXmas]

That sounds more like the local comic shop doing what the comic publisher should have done themselves. Also: was this through the run or just opening night?

I actually would be shocked if  you told me this hapened during the entire showing, in a small theather and with the same guy that hands out 3D glasses giving y ou the free comics (also: worth making them special one-shot editions that are exclusive to the theathers.)

Just the opening weekend.  Well I'm sure about Friday nights.  And they set up their own station with a couple of workers handing out comics as the crowd shuffles in, since it's always multiple theaters showing the movie in question they get you just past the ticket ripper and glasses distributor but before the concessions.

[dwturducken]

Oddly most of them.  A local comic book shop shows up during the midnight showing/opening weekend and hand out old back issues of whatever hero is on the screen.  These are either reprints of classics or random side story.  None of the big important "events".  They had a bunch of little stickers with their address in the shape of a voice bubble that they attach to the front cover.  This isn't a tiny theater but one of the 18 screen with one IMAX multiplexes run by Rave Cinemas.

I have never seen this, and this is, honestly, the first time I've heard anyone mention it. It's been a while since I've stood in line for the first showing of a film, but not so long since I did it on the evening of. Maybe I just don't live in the right town.

[Valjean]

dueling Santas

It really wasn't much of a commercial compared to others out there I hear.  It wasn't shown in front of my midnight 2D showing.

The trailer was pretty meh. Not a lot of gameplay, mostly test. And I don't think it showed up on all showing, and it seems like it was only for the first couple weeks at most. It doesn't seem like it was a good investment to me.

[Nafaustu]

I'm not saying that they are wrapped up so tightly in their cultural prejudices that this is why they acted that way; I'm saying that having that fixation makes their actions make more sense... from a certain point of view. However, the comments on the Glassdoor site from NCSoft employees does suggest that there is at least some cultural rigidity occurring:

Culture yes.   Corporate culture.  Gamer culture.  Internet culture.  Local culture.

East Vs West is no more or less substantial here then North vs. South in the US.   Or Canada as a whole, vs Quebec Canada.   Those lines are a lot more blurry then they used to be and from a market perspective, that's a problem.   That invalidates wholesale blanket statements.   It requires more data.  Lines are drawn differently.

It would be better to qualify this without a non-business, misleading lable.   I'd try 'Target market segment variance.'   NCSoft may be targeting Grinders and Jiggle Physics appreciators, but that does not define 'Eastern culture.'   The sooner we divorce ourselves from this ... locational conceptualization and start qualifying data with the raw, unmitigated dryness I was forced to endure in business school the faster we as a community can capitalize on the mistakes of our corporate former friend without the potential for backlash from 'cultural' misrepresentation or presumption.   What's that old quote?   Just the facts, ma'am.

Welcome to the global community.   

[DarkCurrent]

dueling Santas

It really wasn't much of a commercial compared to others out there I hear.  It wasn't shown in front of my midnight 2D showing.

A single data point does not a trend make.

[Tubbius]

Santas aren't for dueling.  Santas are for giving presents!