Author Topic: Why COH will not get a server emulator.  (Read 98834 times)

Ironwolf

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #200 on: February 26, 2013, 11:59:14 AM »
I find it quite silly that if you can get the game back at around circa i4 - that some folks don't want to play it.

Just like with everything else it could be slowly worked up to what we knew in the end at i23 Beta. Many people were doing data capture at that time. So people are saying - I don't want a short trip back in time to try and save the world?

Man, I guess we better not fire up the flux capacitor in the DeLorean.

Nebularian

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #201 on: February 26, 2013, 04:12:17 PM »
I find it quite silly that if you can get the game back at around circa i4 - that some folks don't want to play it.

Just like with everything else it could be slowly worked up to what we knew in the end at i23 Beta. Many people were doing data capture at that time. So people are saying - I don't want a short trip back in time to try and save the world?

Man, I guess we better not fire up the flux capacitor in the DeLorean.

Well, It might be good for some of you old timers. That is understandable.

But I would venture to guess that not everyone in the community that want COH back started playing at Day One.  In fact, I would venture to guess that, while there may be a lot of you, there's probably just as many that started playing at different times through the history of COH (though I admit that I am beginning to feel like the Newbie here since I started only a couple of years before the shut down)

For those that joined later, those early Issues do not depict the game that we came to know and love (and got addicted to...still trying to figure out how that happened after only a single trial period...kids...let this be a lesson...Yes..you can get addicted from trying it just once!)

I truly admire what SEGS has done. And I am sure that there will be many who want COH back...in whatever form.  I'm just not one of them.  I'll give SEGS kudos for getting SOMETHING up.....but I'll pass.
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Arcana

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #202 on: February 26, 2013, 06:57:27 PM »
I find it quite silly that if you can get the game back at around circa i4 - that some folks don't want to play it.

Just like with everything else it could be slowly worked up to what we knew in the end at i23 Beta. Many people were doing data capture at that time. So people are saying - I don't want a short trip back in time to try and save the world?

Man, I guess we better not fire up the flux capacitor in the DeLorean.
1.  That short trip back in time would take an eight and a half year old game back to when it was eight months old.

2.  The problem is the game client.  Ironically SEGS is starting from zero when it comes to the server code.  The entire server can be created from scratch in pieces over time.  And you don't actually have to get the servers to work exactly as they did before, you just have to get them to work at all.  But as hard as it is to write game servers from scratch, a much more difficult problem would be patching the I3 game client to add functionality.  We don't have the game client source code.  We don't have an obvious way to expand its capabilities significantly.  If you target your servers at the I3 client, moving forward from that point would be incredibly difficult for any feature that required client support.

The problem is not that you couldn't move forward.  The problem is that SEGS or any project like it starts with the presumption of using a specific client version specifically *because* its extremely difficult to reproduce the game client.  And its those limitations that are very difficult to change.  SEGS would realistically be unable to add any archetype, powerset, or costume that didn't exist in I3 (not without essentially figuring out a way to rewrite the client - the client was not extensible in that fashion).  How many characters become impossible to recreate in I3?  How many others become impossible to even get close?  For many players, the inability to recreate their characters in at least some fashion would be a show-stopper.

If SEGS manages to make something playable, I'll download it and try it out.  I'm an eight+ year veteran: my mains were all created in Issue zero, so the limitations of an Issue 3 client won't be fatal.  But I suspect most of the players that joined in the last seven years would have at least moderate difficulty with those limitations.

JaguarX

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #203 on: February 26, 2013, 10:57:00 PM »
I been playing for a while since i5 and even then I'm not sure if I would be too keen on thinking about playing if the game went back to it's i5 version.

Alot of features that people talk about as being the thing that make COX great and bummed because other games dont have it, did not exist during that time. People sometimes forget that the i23 game was way different than the i5 and pre. that and even different than even i14.
Like the sidekick system and people say it's easy. Yeah the current version but many forget the version before that where it was very clunky, and walk, what was it, more than 200 yards was it, and you might go from being surrounded by whites to purples and dead within 1 second.

Or exemp/mal. factor. I seen someone say that CO the teaming thing is a pain i nthe butt because of the setup. Well, originally COX was not far from that setup. If you exemp. no xp. And on team needed a sidekick for every lowbie. Meaning if you doing level 50 mish, and have 5 lowbies, and three 50s, a couple of them will be SOL. Especially if the team had to enter a high level hazard zone beyond the lowbie level.

Nyx Nought Nothing

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #204 on: February 27, 2013, 02:08:14 AM »
I find it quite silly that if you can get the game back at around circa i4 - that some folks don't want to play it.

Just like with everything else it could be slowly worked up to what we knew in the end at i23 Beta. Many people were doing data capture at that time. So people are saying - I don't want a short trip back in time to try and save the world?

Man, I guess we better not fire up the flux capacitor in the DeLorean.
Well, let's see, state of the game at Issue 3... Kheldians came out in Issue 3, but didn't have a number of very significant issues fixed until Issue 4. Also the majority of my space pirate PB's outfit didn't exist then. That's... less than ideal. Beyond Dark Armor's absurd endurance costs the constant dental drill noise induced headaches when i tried playing it and i actually shelved my Issue 1 Claws/Dark for years because of that. Basically a lot of powersets, game mechanics, and ATs still had significant issues at that time. Setting aside all the costume pieces, powersets and other content that also didn't exist yet.

Still, around Issue 3 i was mostly playing my DM/Regen (thoroughly, awesomely broken), FF/Rad (boring but very effective on teams, excruciatingly slow solo), D3 (decent, but still relatively weak at that point), and an Electric/Electric. i can think of several other combos that were good back then and i would enjoy playing, and the graphics would be a nice bit of nostalgia.

As Arcana pointed out though, the only reason to create an Issue 3 specific server is because you don't have the means to do so with any later versions, so it's Issue 3 forever. Which would be depressing. i certainly wouldn't pay money to play a static game stuck at a point in time with a host of bugged mechanics and balance issues. Not saying you shouldn't but i don't see the appeal. As much as i liked playing CoH i would find perpetual Issue 3 more annoying than fun. If i was going to fire up the flux capacitor it would be to head to the future, not spend my time crouched over the guttering ember of a fixed point in the past.
So far so good. Onward and upward!

houtex

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #205 on: February 27, 2013, 06:52:43 AM »
I4 didn't have villains.

I... what is it... 18?  Introduced Praetoria and the Vigs and Rogues.

Yeah, not a fan of I anything that's not 21 or so, myself, if I could have a choice.

Megajoule

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #206 on: February 27, 2013, 09:13:31 AM »
I am and would continue to enjoy a time capsule of Issue 3 as a huge nostalgia trip (started between 1 and 2, myself), but as a functioning game going forward?  No, not really.  It's a toy, like if we were able to rig up the Pocket D (with Chalet) as a sort of 3D chatroom for our characters to hang out in and talk.

General Idiot

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #207 on: February 27, 2013, 03:44:13 PM »
Quote
It's a toy, like if we were able to rig up the Pocket D (with Chalet) as a sort of 3D chatroom for our characters to hang out in and talk.

A sizable portion of Virtue would be happy with just that. :p

But yeah, I4 is good but I24 would be infinitely better. I'll take what I can get, but I'll miss all the powersets, costumes, zones and features that came after. Bases and mission architect especially, but I can see those two being probably the hardest parts to get working for a reverse engineering project.

Megajoule

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #208 on: February 27, 2013, 05:24:24 PM »
A sizable portion of Virtue would be happy with just that. :p
Oh, I'm well aware, and I'd be one of them. :)

That's about the limits of what I let myself really hope for.  Anything over and above that will thus be a pleasant surprise.

Ironwolf

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #209 on: February 27, 2013, 06:02:46 PM »
Honestly, the main thrust I would have is to use the work involved in getting an older private server going and the demand the server is getting to help sell it to Google.

If we can turn and say look - a private server is getting 1000 hits a day.................

Brightfires

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #210 on: February 27, 2013, 06:31:05 PM »
I could probably play an i3 version of the game, but I'm not at all sure I would want to. Two of my three favorites (And I'm going to be honest here... those three are the ones I REALLY want back-) simply couldn't be rebuilt in a version of the game from that time period.

Their powersets (Not to mention Kestrel's Stalker AT-) just didn't exist. They also couldn't have their wings, much less most of the other costume pieces I used on them... Which would also be an issue for the last of the trio. IIRC, I could build a Dark defender in i3 but he would be a very different character from the Nemissary I had to give up when the game shut down, both in terms of playability and appearance. 
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Heroette

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #211 on: February 27, 2013, 07:45:55 PM »
My main was a dual pistols (even though I started at the launch) and I know that power set would not be available in I3 or I4 so there is no remaking her.  But I did like my Claws/SR scrapper so I could remake her.  I still have her original costume on her.  Anyway, playing the game again would be great, while we wait for something else to come along.

Absolute

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #212 on: February 28, 2013, 12:34:40 AM »
Anyway, playing the game again would be great, while we wait for something else to come along.

This. The game would eventually get old with the lack of updates, although there was a lot of content, even back then.

I suppose playing an older version of the game is more of a specialized preference than I originally thought. I still play the games from my childhood on a regular basis (NES, N64, Gameboy etc.), so it seems much more appealing to me. I like to revisit a game years later, because becoming older usually changes how I play and view it. I love classic games, and have no problem dealing with frustrations (No saves, limited lives) that older games have in order to re-experience them.

I don't think I'm necessarily so uptight now that I couldn't deal with the downsides of the game I once loved. It is the CoH I played obsessively back then. I would definitely prefer i24, so that I could finish that Perma-Elude DM/SR I was working on, but I realize that the old game had some amazing tricks as well (Burn/Ice Patch) that I wouldn't mind playing with for a couple years or so.

Golden Ace

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #213 on: February 28, 2013, 12:36:57 AM »
I ran a Tank, and have always ran Tanks.  I loved Issues 3 & 4 for me they were CoH's heyday, after that the nerf fest began and my characters got weaker and weaker.  even toward the end they were no where near what they were in I4.

Ashen Fury

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #214 on: February 28, 2013, 01:23:32 AM »
I definitely agree with what most people on this page have said. Having CoH back to life, even if it was in a diminished form, is a win in my books. Yeah, I probably wouldn't play a fully working SEGS as much as I would play a I24-enabled version, but it would certainly be an amazing nostalia trip, and it would certainly entertain me a lot more than any of the current mmo "offerings" that are out right now while I wait for said I24 version to be made.
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Ironwolf

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #215 on: February 28, 2013, 02:20:09 AM »
I don't want the newer code working on a private server. I don't want competition for anyone who might buy the game.

I could happily play Issue 3-4 until the game up and running again.

Let me tell you about 6 slotted damage in a blaster.....
Let me tell you about only Bosses and Lts having mez.........

My Fire/Fire blaster used to get instant invites when I logged in :)

saipaman

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #216 on: February 28, 2013, 03:47:31 AM »
I'd be happy for the opportunity to play CoX again, even if it meant going 'back to the box'.  After all, it was the original game that hooked me.  Everything else was just gravy.

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #217 on: February 28, 2013, 04:18:32 AM »
"Any chance to go aboard 'Enterprise'...  oh wait, wrong genre..  ;D

Yep, any chance to play CoX again would be welcome in my book.
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Lightslinger

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #218 on: February 28, 2013, 12:45:33 PM »
I don't want the newer code working on a private server. I don't want competition for anyone who might buy the game.

I could happily play Issue 3-4 until the game up and running again.

Let me tell you about 6 slotted damage in a blaster.....
Let me tell you about only Bosses and Lts having mez.........

My Fire/Fire blaster used to get instant invites when I logged in :)

But we can't stop work on the private server(s) because of a possible buyer. NCsoft has reiterated that it is not interested in selling CoH. I wish TF Hail Mary the best, its worth a shot, but they're basically trying to sell something they don't own and the owner doesn't want to sell.

So, while yes, an active and populated private server would dilute the IP to a potential buyer, but we would actually have our game back. In light of NCsoft's attitude toward selling and the past precedent they've set by not selling ANY of their IPs, the private server is by far our best bet at getting CoH back.

God speed coders, we're counting on you.


r00tb0ySlim

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Re: Why COH will not get a server emulator.
« Reply #219 on: February 28, 2013, 02:02:32 PM »
But we can't stop work on the private server(s) because of a possible buyer. NCsoft has reiterated that it is not interested in selling CoH. I wish TF Hail Mary the best, its worth a shot, but they're basically trying to sell something they don't own and the owner doesn't want to sell.

NCsoft would be foolish to state anything other than they are not interested in selling.  In this situation any business that has a viable product would take this position and wait for the list of possible buyers to surface in order to target a more accurate price point.  If they were to advertise their willingness to sell the potential price point for negotiations and leverage would be decreased.  IMO they will sell if the money is right no matter what they state or have stated.  TF Hail Mary is the prod to help these potential buyers surface and our voice that says we are here and ready to support this game if you can obtain it from NCsoft.  Like you said, "its worth a shot".