Marvel Heroes, I think I'll pass, thanks.

[Canine]

I've been hearing little bits and pieces here and there about Marvel Heroes, and not a lot of what I'm hearing has me interested in any way.

And now Penny Arcade have just posted editorial piece which just buried any desire I had to play it.  And yes I know, it's still in beta, and therefore subject to change, but the bits I'm not interested in are sort of fundamental, like the basic gameplay design...

Anyone out there planning on giving it a go, or already trying out the beta?  I'm assuming from the article appearing at all that there's no NDA in place, so that if you were in beta, you'd be able to talk about it.

[Dollhouse]

I haven't tried it personally, but two very good friends of mine have - the couple that pulled me away from FPS games and into the MMO world when CoH went live, in fact! They were singularly unimpressed and have no intention of playing it when it drops.  To the best of my knowledge they've both uninstalled the beta client, which kinda says it all. I tend to trust their opinion on games and vice-versa (they're both playing TSW with me now, and while one was a hard sell on that game, his wife likes it a lot...and domestic tranquility carried the day.).

[Atlantea]

I don't know what it is about Marvel, but it seems that outside of the movies, they just can't make any good decisions whatsoever.

The actual comics hold no interest for me whatsoever (and when I hear things like them killing off Peter Parker, I'm even less inclined to bother).

They can't seem to licence ANY video game worth playing at all. And this latest offering only continues a depressing trend.

I simply have to shake my head in amazement that ANYONE greenlighted this project. But then, we're not dealing with people who understand gaming. Or really even understand comics anymore. What we're seeing is the decisions of a bunch of "suits" managing an "Intellectual Property" at several removes who aren't even really interested in their own product and who have zero clue about what makes the universe or the characters special.

The movies do well because they've lucked into giving the reins of the production to people who actually are FANS of the material in most cases and love the universe and the product. Or at the very least are committed enough in terms of artistry and work ethic to LEARN about the product and THEN wind up "getting" it during production.

One of the things that makes a superhero world worth playing in is UNIQUENESS. Even DCUO got THAT part right, (even if their character creator is clumsy) I sneer - literally sneer - at the thought of playing this game and seeing a world populated by hundreds of Iron Man, Hulk and Wolverine clones. How the hell are you supposed to even team if you wind up with everyone playing the same character? Are you going to be "Wolverine 8675309?"

Puh-LEASE.

[dwturducken]

I SO wish there were proper claws in CO! My first impulse was to run to CoH and make a caricature of Wolvy called "Wolverine 8675329!" Stupid altoholism!

[Lily Barclay]

I SO wish there were proper claws in CO! My first impulse was to run to CoH and make a caricature of Wolvy called "Wolverine 8675329!" Stupid altoholism!

There are, aren't there? I remade my claws stalker there and feel proper. Though I did combine powers from a few sets. Bestial supernatural and the one that gives you actual claws melee weapons. I can't remember the name of it.

[Aggelakis]

I played some of it at this past PAX prime, and was thoroughly unimpressed. It's Diablo with a superhero skin (not surprising, considering the lead) and there is no real customization (you have to buy-with-real-money most Marvel characters (there is no ingame way to unlock most of them), then buy-with-real-money outfits for them - or you can farm an ungodly amount of time for them - or maybe eventually there will be an auction house or something).

No thanks.

It looks like they updated the engine though, it looks much prettier. It was pretty scuzzy when we saw it at PAX.

[houtex]

I SO wish there were proper claws in CO! My first impulse was to run to CoH and make a caricature of Wolvy called "Wolverine 8675309!" Stupid altoholism!

Fix'd. 

[corvus1970]

Yeah, I don't think so Marvel. But, if you let me play as Thanos, and then let me kill everyone, I might be interested...for a few minutes anyway.

I agree with Atlantea: outside of Marvel studios, they keep making one boneheaded decision after another. House of Ideas my left butt-cheek.

[dwturducken]

I knew it was wrong. Made it funnier to me. And, now, I must go find "proper" Wolvy claws in CO.

*sachays away*

[Mistress Urd]

Sad if this is the case. My poor friend will probably have to give up MMOs because he has to play Super Hero Genre. Well, he may just hold his nose and play CO but he says it sucks big time. Well, I guess until its in open beta and finalized for initial release, nothing is set in stone.

[Servantes]

Comparing Marvel Universe to Champions, Marvel wins by a mile....but that mile is a road covered in broken glass, you certainly don't want to go back, but not looking forward to the next mile.

[Kistulot]

Yeah, I don't think so Marvel. But, if you let me play as Thanos, and then let me kill everyone, I might be interested...for a few minutes anyway.

I agree with Atlantea: outside of Marvel studios, they keep making one boneheaded decision after another. House of Ideas my left butt-cheek.

Well its like House of M!

"No more ideas!"

[therain93]

Long ago when they frist announced it would only have their heroes and not allow custom ones, it was off the board for me.  Considering it literally looks like it will play as an online version of Marvel Ultimate Alliance, then I'd rather just play that (and get all ther perks) without the monetization.

[JWBullfrog]

I've taken a look at it and have decided that it's ok for what it is. The problem with that is that it IS NOT what I want. So, I'll probably not be playing it.

[Madadh]

Actually... Sounds appealing to me.  I'll perhaps give it a go.  But yes, I'd prefer CoH, but, I'd prefer a well done Marvel Universe to CO or DCUO at this point, so...  I'll give it a go

[Nos482]

In the unlikely case that Kl'rt* is added to the PC-rooster, I'd give it a try. But as it is...
Meh.











*yes, I have a weird taste. so what? 8)

[corvus1970]

Super Skrull? Weird taste? I don't think so! Kl'rt is awesome.

[Thunder Glove]

I'd like to see him available, too, but he's a villain.  I know that he's no longer a villain in the comics, but that doesn't seem to matter for these adaptations.  Once a villain, always a villain. The same way that comic Magneto has been dancing back and forth over the heroic line since the 1980s, rarely going back to "true" villainy anymore, but in most adaptations he's still portrayed as the full-on villain bent on world domination he was in 1960s comics.

... of course, that same rule doesn't apply for other former villains like Wolverine, Wonder Man, Hawkeye, and Black Widow, and especially Deadpool (who is *still* mortally ambiguous at best, yet is presented as a full-on hero in adaptations).

[daveyfiacre]

i finally got my beta invite...

but thanks to a video preview of gameplay i'm not sure i even want to try it anymore :(

[Kaos Arcanna]

I got an ad offering to let me pay for things in advance... but no beta to see if I'd want to....

[Mistress Urd]

Me too, pay upfront for a game with very little info = no thank you.

[dwturducken]

I can't talk about this game, now...  8)

[Tater Todd]

Yeah...no thank you...I mean look at the price on the ultimate pack.

http://presale.marvelheroes.com/presale_en_us/the-ultimate-pack.html

[FatherXmas]

Yeah...no thank you...I mean look at the price on the ultimate pack.

http://presale.marvelheroes.com/presale_en_us/the-ultimate-pack.html

$200??!!  Okay $150 since it "includes" $50 of in game currency but still.  Good luck with that game guys.

[daveyfiacre]

Inorite? first i was all:

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=24.media.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_m3qi05XNdY1ruoy68o1_500.gif

then i was all:

https://images.weserv.nl/?url=blackgekikara.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F01%2Fno-meme-rage-face.jpg


and then i promptly returned to Icon and fiddled with some new costumes.

[Kaos Arcanna]

If I had a chance to Beta the game and see if I liked it-- a prospect I admit to finding doubtful right now-- that'd be one thing. If I loved a game I could see spending that kind of money on it.

But you haven't invited me to Beta? I haven't seen anything that tells me how the controls on the game work? And you want money from me? Really?

[dwturducken]

$200??!!  Okay $150 since it "includes" $50 of in game currency but still.  Good luck with that game guys.

But, you get listed in the credits! Now, really, who can put a price on that?

I can't speak to the controls and preview options, but it's claiming on the website to be free to play. Also, I don't know if they've announced a release date (I haven't really been following it, but a quick scan of the news releases and items on the website doesn't specify one), but didn't the closed beta only just start? I'm not familiar with this side of development, but it could be in beta for a few months.

[Timelord Tom]

Closed Beta has started, and they must be having problems with drop out rate already, as they are constantly "giving away" access codes via Twitter and Facebook.

[Mistress Urd]

Usually when they offer big money packs/subs before the game is out it means they are worried they won't make projections for being profitable.

Having tried out a couple of games that are buy to play or free to play means I'll be getting bombarded by in game ads to pay them. Pass

[Electric-Knight]

Haha... Man, at a $200 price point for that pack, it makes me wonder what sort of prices they'll be setting for regular purchases of characters and costumes and such.

The game scenario doesn't entice me at all... and the obvious money-grab/collector-mentality potential of this is really unappealing to me.
I was also looking through all the costumes they had listed there on that page and I am rather unimpressed by the selection of characters and by the costume choices for each.

Make mine Paragon!

[MindBlender]

Hmmm, so send us some money and we will send you a "car".  Might be a Corvette...might be a Chevette, but hey a car is a car.

I am more a FPS player and went so far as to play CoX that way.  The chopper hovering above the action does no appeal to me at all.

I also find that the graphics are more Duke Nukem 3D than I care for.  Our City may have had an old engine, but the graphics were head and shoulders above what I saw in the videos I have seen for Marvel.  To be fair though, I have yet to see if Bethesda can duplicate the quality of Skyrim's graphics in ES Online.

[Mazz vs The World]

Is it just me or does this game look identical to the console based Marvel Ultimate Alliance 1&2??? So they took that game and threw it online hmm.........I smell POOOOO!

[Kaos Arcanna]

Already got a second mail saying, "Thanks for the purchases suckers ... er fans who bought it... the rest of you want to get in on this good thing, don't you?"

Seriously, if I enjoyed the beta I might do it but so far... you haven't even invited me to PLAY it yet!!

[jbazzrea1]

I am seriously so far beyond disappointed with the blatant abuse of the marvel IP to make an MMO under the pretenses that they have used to construct this game...it's unreal...without a serious way of allowing character innovation it's literally a cookie cutter with social aspects...surely a company as wise as Disney is smarter than that by now. 10 years ago maybe...but now? No thanks.

[damienray]

It's Diablo III with different skins..... yawn....

[Starsman]

It is my understanding they are shooting for a League of Legends type game, not a City of Heroes or traditional MMO.

Technically a smart move. For one, I heard a lot of complaints form lots of people saying their lack of interest in a DC branded MMO was that they had no interest if they were not able to play the iconic characters. With iconic characters like Superman and Batman around, you had no choice but be a nobody. In CoH, since characters like Statesman are not so iconic, you never feel like a nobody.

Second: With about 32 million active monthly players, League of Legends is, is becoming THE MMO to copy, stripping the crown away from World of Warcraft.

Add to this that the Marvel Universe itself just lends itself perfectly for the action-figure collector model made popular by League of Legends, and it becomes a bit of a no-brainer to go down that path.

Mind you, not justifying the game for anyone here, just justifying the direction. Im sure OTHER players are their target market, not us.

[dwturducken]

This is one of those games that really punctuates the need to reclassify games that are currently called "MMOs."  I will grant that is fits each of the words that make up the acronym.  Even just calling something and MMO, without a suffix like RPG, evokes certain expectations that a Diablo 3 type game simply is not. If it is what the previews and descriptions would seem to indicate, then it is as much like CoH or CO as Diablo 3 is to WoW or GWX.

Personally, I will get into epic, stereotypical, nerd-level discussions/arguments over the comparisons between CoH and CO and DCUO, but I just don't consider this to be worthy of comparison, based on current press. Maybe that's worthy of reassessment once I see it in open beta.

[Starsman]

This is one of those games that really punctuates the need to reclassify games that are currently called "MMOs."  I will grant that is fits each of the words that make up the acronym.  Even just calling something and MMO, without a suffix like RPG, evokes certain expectations that a Diablo 3 type game simply is not. If it is what the previews and descriptions would seem to indicate, then it is as much like CoH or CO as Diablo 3 is to WoW or GWX.

Interestingly, I have been disputing with people for ages that Diablo 2 is NOT an MMO, in any way. It seems for ages many players considered anything that is online and has RPG elements to be an MMO.

[chasearcanum]

Second: With about 32 million active monthly players, League of Legends is, is becoming THE MMO to copy, stripping the crown away from World of Warcraft.

Agree with most, but one factual inaccuracy there.

There are 32 million accounts registered, not necessarily "monthly players." Many of those can be long since dormant.

Still, they're a powerhouse:  About 12 million accounts access the game each day with a peak concurrency (highest number of users logged on simultaneously ) of 3 million.    about 100 developers working on the game (including server ops teams in that number, apparently)

How that translates into revenue is quite the question, given that its a freemo.   
Granted, its still comparing apples to oranges for the typical subscription-based MMO.  It costs nothing for me to sign up, and I may have 2-3 separate accounts, so number of accounts doesn't mean much for player success.  Peak concurrency is very high, so its a popular game, but how does that translate to revenue?

I'd love to see the average $$ spent per user per month, if anyone's seen that data posted.

[Starsman]

Agree with most, but one factual inaccuracy there.

There are 32 million accounts registered, not necessarily "monthly players." Many of those can be long since dormant.

For the record, i got the number from this Gamasutra article:
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/179324/League_of_Legends_draws_more_daily_players_than_Zyngas_biggest_hits.php

The article labeled it as "32 monthly active players", not me.

Looking more I found this article at Kotaku that has the full chart:
http://www.kotaku.com.au/2012/10/the-number-of-people-who-play-league-of-legends-just-blows-my-mind/

It seems to claim they have 70 million "summoner names" (accounts?) registered, 32 million monthly active users and 12 million daily users, among a bunch other stats.

I'd love to see the average $$ spent per user per month, if anyone's seen that data posted.

Has to be rather high for them to have over 100 devs working on the game. Paragon Studios had 80 but they were working on two games (I keep reading 3 in some accounts.)

[Valjean]

LoL is usually referred to as a MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena). And that seems to be where more games are going towards, versus the traditional MMO.

[dwturducken]

I'd say that fits what I'm seeing of the advance press on MH.

And people really called Diablo 2 an MMO? I thought it was Massively, not massive, Multiplayer Online blah-blah-blah.  By that logic, wouldn't Baldur's Gate (or its cousins) be an MMO? Or Freedom Force? Or Borderlands?

[Starsman]

And people really called Diablo 2 an MMO? I thought it was Massively, not massive, Multiplayer Online blah-blah-blah.  By that logic, wouldn't Baldur's Gate (or its cousins) be an MMO? Or Freedom Force? Or Borderlands?

As I said: I argued with those. I managed to get some to understand, others never changed their mind.

[Electric-Knight]

LoL is usually referred to as a MOBA (multiplayer online battle arena). And that seems to be where more games are going towards, versus the traditional MMO.

What I find interesting (or not) is... how is that different from all of the Dooms, Half Lifes, Jedi Knights, etc. that were extremely popular before?
Any snark is absolutely not directed at you! ;)
I just find it astonishing how industries rediscover popular trends, hehe. Just a few bits added or changed and it's supposedly a brand new age, hehe.

I really need to go back to that thread I started and type out my mind on all of this... I've just not been around that much!


Anyway... again, I really wonder what sort of prices are they going to be selling characters for!

[dwturducken]

As I said: I argued with those. I managed to get some to understand, others never changed their mind.

Point taken. I guess there will always be that group of people out there who will staunchly insist that "it is what it says it is because it says it is." No matter what "it" is.

[Kistulot]

Honestly, as a fan of Diablo mechanics (though I like the first more than the second, and I refuse to buy 3 due to Blizzard business practices) and super heroes, I'm excited for this one. It's not an MMO, but it looks fun.

I played LoL for awhile, and yeah, its not an MMO. You can call it a deathmatch game, compare it to whatever you want, but the genre that sprung up from the tower defense/tower invade hybrid (even if LoL has a second maptype that was fun for me until a match that... oh god, that was why I stopped playing at all) with that sort of a play structure is "MOBA" for multiplayer online battle arena, which could apply to a lot of older games too.

I remember purchasing the extra rune pages, a couple of the champ packs, and Leona when she was brand new. She was under no tables, so oh the wait on that...

But yeah, this game isn't an MMO. I'm not excited because it'll be a replacement for CoH, but because it'll be a fun game that fills an itch I've had for awhile, and lets me play as Ms Marvel. I've watched a variety of the gameplay, and a friend gifted me the Avengers founders pack, so I'm eagerly awaiting it.

The fact that its F2P with an implied heavy ability to play the game and unlock loads of things for free means that a lot of the money model will be based around things not being droppable at first and or people with less time to play and or exclusive buy only content. This is good for gamers. It lets people who don't have the money for a monthly sub play and even unlock things that others would pay for. But people with money and no time? They support the game they like, and get stuff they want.

Really, this is win win as long as its fun, and it looks very fun.

[Starsman]

Honestly, as a fan of Diablo mechanics (though I like the first more than the second, and I refuse to buy 3 due to Blizzard business practices) and super heroes, I'm excited for this one. It's not an MMO, but it looks fun.

This is one thing you should commit to muscle memory o make the world a happier place:

Diablo 3 got renamed to Torchlight 2.

[Kistulot]

Honestly, playing superheroes will help me separate the biggest thing that angers me about post 1 Diablos.

Why the heck do I want to waste time at an overworld? One. Continuous. Dungeon. That's all. Grrr.

[Kaos Arcanna]

Having seen some actual gameplay now, I don't think I can convince myself to spend money there. I already own Marvel Ultimate Alliance, after all.

[Ampithere]

Having seen some actual gameplay now, I don't think I can convince myself to spend money there. I already own Marvel Ultimate Alliance, after all.

I agree with this statement so much that it hurts.

[General Idiot]

Really, if I wanted to play Ultimate Alliance I'd be digging out the copy I have somewhere and playing it. And if I wanted to be playing Diablo I'd be playing Torchlight 2. Nothing I've seen of this game makes it a better option in either situation.

[dwturducken]

The final release is supposed to be F2P, though, right?

There's a rather large debate going on the Neverwinter Online forum, right now, regarding paid beta for a free game. I'm not in the beta, but I do always take an interest in what the next adaptation of D&D will look like, so I've been keeping half an eye on some of the discussions. Unlike the Marvel Heroes forums, the NWO forums are open, at least to existing PWE accounts.

[Mistress Urd]

It is suppoed to be "F2P" its not clear how common or rare the character drops or costume drops are. The $ on the "founders" packs concern me. I more info when the game gets closer to release.

[Kaos Arcanna]

I finally got invited to beta and to be honest I saw nothing about the game that would entice me to play it.

[Mistress Urd]

I'm not surprised Kaos, F2P with big pay us $ before the game is out. Another ground up F2P and "cash shop" focus usually means more focus on making money than something fun to play.

[dwturducken]

Whoa! First rule of beta: nobody talks about beta. :)

[Aggelakis]

Whoa! First rule of beta: nobody talks about beta. :)

Talking about being in beta isn't covered in their NDA. You can only not discuss game specifics. (Which some folks here are skirting close, but still haven't broken)

[dwturducken]

Yeah, really, I think that, if there were more to talk about, there would be more talking.

[Kistulot]

I'm in the beta. It's fun.

It's still not an MMO. I was doubtful at first that they could have it ready by anything but late spring, but they seem fairly competent.

[Maressa]

I gave it a try as part of the press event. This is what I had to say about it. http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Marvel-Heroes-Online/review/Marvel-Heroes-Beta-Preview I tried to be a bit gentle, but honestly I was not at all impressed.

And today OnRPG had a new feature go up about it from a press event that took place yesterday. It talks about a UI overhaul, crafting, and new content. http://www.onrpg.com/MMO/Marvel-Heroes-Online/news/Marvel-Heroes---Gazillion-Reveals-Beta-UI-Crafting-and-Content-Updates

[dwturducken]

The crafting actually isn't bad, but it's entirely superficial. I do like the drops, but haven't been on enough to really explore some of the content. There was an issue that limited play for a couple of weeks, but that appears to be worked out. I was looking forward to getting back on, tonight, but homework might get in the way of that. The update is running, now.

(Wow. That's kinda stream of consciousness. I wonder if I can rewrite it as a haiku...)

[Illusionss]

So, I'm in the Marvel Heroes beta. Any port in a storm, and all that.

WHY CAN NO ONE GET SUPERHEROES RIGHT?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gameplay, not too bad. I dont see the blocking mechanic: yay! Nor do I instantly die, and there is something to be said for this. But omg, the rest.

1. Diablo-style gameplay. Why is this bad?

Fixed point of view. I said fixed. You will not be mousewheeling around, nope. Not even a little. You are looking where you are looking, and that is all the looking you are gonna do.

Your character is a little tiny figure running around, no detail is visible. The main glory of CoX was your being able to dress your avatar in 50,000 options and then revel in their bad-assitude, or in their beauty!! You will not be doing that in Marvel Heroes, as your avatar is 500 feet away. No joke. And you cannot mousewheel closer.

I dont want to be 500 feet away from myself, nor do I wish to be unable to see myself at all,  FPS-style.

2. No flying that I can see, nosir. Shank's mare, just like you were running around in any medieval-style game. GEEZ, is this not why we want to play superheroes to begin with??!!

3. You cannot jump obstacles. Paranormals who can't jump, its like a bad joke. Hell, regular humans had that down pat last time I checked, much less the superpowered.

And last but NOT least: 100 Hulks, 50 Scarlet Witches, 20 Thors, 5 Captain Americas and 10 Daredevils inhabit the same space. LAWL, PEOPLE. Just *lawl.* It is the stupidest, most immersion-breaking thing you have ever seen.

Hurry up, Phoenix Project or else I am gonna die waiting.  :P

[TigerKnight]

I've been in Marvel Beta when they did one of those key things way back a month ago. I can't get in now but one thing I remember that I was like "I thought we were superheroes???" that you failed to mention is how villains like Rhino, Electro, and Venom require like 20 Hulks and 10 Thors to defeat. The fact that it takes more than one Hulk and Thor to take out Rhino is simply ridiculous.

Still, I never had high hopes for the game. Not because of it being Diablo style (Well, maybe in addition to....) but the fact the developer told the audience while hold a picture of a guy with forks coming out his hands Wolverine style "There won't be any custom characters in our game. No one wants to play fookin Fork Man"

Clearly, he has no idea what makes a good Superhero MMO.

[Kistulot]

Honestly, when I played it I enjoyed it. I've argued all along calling it an MMO is inaccurate (at least in the traditional sense) but its not a bad little game for what it is... but it doesn't make any qualms about what it is. I've been out of the beta for awhile due to other concerns and not wanting progress to be wiped, but I think that calling it absolute rubbish is unfair.

If you want a replacement for CoH, this game has never pro-ported to be that. Look elsewhere.

If you want to try a Diablo-like using Marvel characters, give it a try.

[JaguarX]

So, I'm in the Marvel Heroes beta. Any port in a storm, and all that.

WHY CAN NO ONE GET SUPERHEROES RIGHT?????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Gameplay, not too bad. I dont see the blocking mechanic: yay! Nor do I instantly die, and there is something to be said for this. But omg, the rest.

1. Diablo-style gameplay. Why is this bad?

Fixed point of view. I said fixed. You will not be mousewheeling around, nope. Not even a little. You are looking where you are looking, and that is all the looking you are gonna do.

Your character is a little tiny figure running around, no detail is visible. The main glory of CoX was your being able to dress your avatar in 50,000 options and then revel in their bad-assitude, or in their beauty!! You will not be doing that in Marvel Heroes, as your avatar is 500 feet away. No joke. And you cannot mousewheel closer.

I dont want to be 500 feet away from myself, nor do I wish to be unable to see myself at all,  FPS-style.

2. No flying that I can see, nosir. Shank's mare, just like you were running around in any medieval-style game. GEEZ, is this not why we want to play superheroes to begin with??!!

3. You cannot jump obstacles. Paranormals who can't jump, its like a bad joke. Hell, regular humans had that down pat last time I checked, much less the superpowered.

And last but NOT least: 100 Hulks, 50 Scarlet Witches, 20 Thors, 5 Captain Americas and 10 Daredevils inhabit the same space. LAWL, PEOPLE. Just *lawl.* It is the stupidest, most immersion-breaking thing you have ever seen.

Hurry up, Phoenix Project or else I am gonna die waiting.  :P

That first question is very good question. I dont think game developers/publishers take super hero MMOs serious. They think it's some side project fun to do for now until they get bored in a few months to years, or until they come up wit hthe next fantasy game.

[Captain Electric]

On the mousewheel zoom, you may want to file a bug report or try another mouse. I can zoom in VERY close to my characters and I do so frequently.

[dwturducken]

I think this has to be the first game I've lost interest in while it was still in beta.

[Illusionss]

If you want a replacement for CoH, this game has never pro-ported to be that. Look elsewhere.

Perhaps there are others out there like me, who didnt really know much about the game but wanted to give it a try, since we are mostly homeless now. I have been over there, and I reported on what I saw. People now have more info to make a decision with.

No one said "this game purports to be a replacement for CoH!" But for people looking for a new home, at least until one of "our" games comes out, yes they are looking for a replacement.

No one wants to play Fork Man, indeed. I dont want to be one of fifty Scarlet Witches either. When the game hits Live it would probably be 100 Scarlet Witches..... genius move.

[Mazz vs The World]

Yeah I just started my beta access today. TERRIBLE!! It plays exactly like Marvel Ultimate Alliance which came out oh lets see 7 years ago!! Also the click to move is annoying and so is holding down the W-key and moving the cursor around to move. I knew not to try this but I was trying to be a good sport and you can't knock it until you try it, well I'm knocking it. They took this long to come up with this crap?? The game play is boring, the powers are boring, the duplication of the same characters over and over is boring. This game is absolutely terrible I'd rather play Monopoly.

[JaguarX]

Yeah I just started my beta access today. TERRIBLE!! It plays exactly like Marvel Ultimate Alliance which came out oh lets see 7 years ago!! Also the click to move is annoying and so is holding down the W-key and moving the cursor around to move. I knew not to try this but I was trying to be a good sport and you can't knock it until you try it, well I'm knocking it. They took this long to come up with this crap?? The game play is boring, the powers are boring, the duplication of the same characters over and over is boring. This game is absolutely terrible I'd rather play Monopoly.

Monopoly can be fun wit hthe right crowd and an half way honest banker.

I cant do the click to move games. Thatis automatic deal breaker if the movement cant be customized.

Not to mention, dont enjoy playing games where I'm just another Marvel toon among hundreds of marvel toons and among the usual arguements about who's Hulk looks better.

[Golden Girl]

And last but NOT least: 100 Hulks, 50 Scarlet Witches, 20 Thors, 5 Captain Americas and 10 Daredevils inhabit the same space.

Atlas Park on Freedom server?

[Captain Electric]

Hehehe.  :D

[Mistress Urd]

While the graphics are much better than Diablo 2, Marvel isn't a better game.  :roll: I have a hard time deciding which is better between D3, Torchlight 2 and Marvel, they are all dumbed down D2 with better graphics. Gameplay in Marvel wasn't bad, but is such a letdown when you compare it to CoH.

[Illusionss]

I dont see this game having "legs" at all. I dont see it lasting eight years.

The lack of customization is the main dealbreaker. This is truly for the type of person without a thought in their head except for "I want to play the Hulk." I am sure some others will enjoy it for other reasons, but it just strikes me as a godsend for people without ideas.

If it were not for having to play THEIR heroes and for the Diablo-style click-to-move, I'd give it a shot. But I dont want to be one of 100,000 Thors, and that's just the bottom line for me.

[Styrj]

Kistulot:  In all honesty, there is no "elsewhere".

Illusionss:  +10 everything you said.  Not to mention then fact that you can't create your own toon and pick your powers.  Marvel had a chance to do some really good things with this game, but they blew it BIG TIME!!!  Just Diablo 2 with Marvel heroes running around.  This is, IMHO, worse off than CO (which is not really saying much.).

[Illusionss]

Good point. Where is this "elsewhere":

DCUonline: Undroppable missions which permanently roadblock me. Wildly-swaying camera motion gives me serious motion-sickness in combat, and I see no way to disable camera sway.

CO: That &*%(ing block mechanic. Simplistic art-style. Little to no teaming.

CoX: dead.

Point me to that other superhero game where I can find surcease from my withdrawal woes: I will go there at once.

Meanwhile, wondering if Secret World is worth checking out.  :-\

I really think NCSoft has no idea what they have done. Or maybe they do and are deriving great enjoyment from our pain; who knows.

[AlphaFerret]

I took part of the closed beta as well.  I would call it entertaining, but not an immersive experience.  Feels like a console game.

[dwturducken]

It would be interesting to see in, say, two years, when they decide that they need to add a customizable character mechanic, how they flub it. Will it be in how clumsily bolted on it is, or in how limited the "choices" are? Or will it be in some new and surprising way that hasn't been messed up in other games? :)

[Brightfires]

Meanwhile, wondering if Secret World is worth checking out.  :-\

I really think NCSoft has no idea what they have done. Or maybe they do and are deriving great enjoyment from our pain; who knows.

They don't care enough to get any enjoyment out of it. City and its players are simply a non-issue now as far as they're concerned.

As for Secret World, I'd recommend reading the thread about it here... It has its moments, but if you want something that reminds you of the way City played, Secret World IS NOT IT, in any way, shape or form.

[JetFlash]

While the graphics are much better than Diablo 2, Marvel isn't a better game.  :roll: I have a hard time deciding which is better between D3, Torchlight 2 and Marvel, they are all dumbed down D2 with better graphics. Gameplay in Marvel wasn't bad, but is such a letdown when you compare it to CoH.

While I haven't even given Marvel a first look, I'm going to say that Torchlight 2 was better than D2.

Hey Marvel!  Want to know how to get a lot more players?  Allow them to re-skin the characters with customized costumes, size and genders included.  If they did that, I'd be all over that.

Custom Iron Man = Jet Flash.  Custom Hulk = Titanium Girl.  Custom Deadpool = Kaishin.

Do it, and I'll give it a go.  Otherwise, I'll wait for TPP and H&V.

[Lightslinger]

I think comparing it to CoH, CO, or DCUO is unfair really. This is basically the Marvel: Ultimate Alliance console games built from the ground up to be online.

I played a couple of those games over the years, had one on Gamecube and one on PS3 and they really are fun games. Even more fun with friends playing. Not really an "MMO" at all. So if you want a quick pick up game as your favorite Marvel hero teaming with other people, I'm sure it will work for that.

[doc7924]

As much as I love Captain America and have almost every video game with him in it, the fun of all the super hero MMO's I have played so far - COH, CO and DCUO is making your OWN, ORIGINAL hero with costume, backstory (if you wanted), customized powers, etc.

While not saying the Marvel game is good or bad, I just think that sucks a lot of the fun out of right away just being one of the already established heroes.

[SeaLily]

I've been enjoying this game a lot.  Spiderman in particular is a ton of fun to play as, with his high mobility and speed debuffs/corrosive webbing DoTs.

Great ARPG, took them long enough to make one that wasn't another boring fantasy setting.  I'm glad they stopped advertising it as an MMO a while back, since this isn't an MMO in any traditional sense- but if anyone here liked Diablo-style games or Marvel Ultimate Alliance, they'll enjoy this a lot.

The voice acting in particular is top-notch.

[Captain Electric]

I have two minds about this. Coming from City of Heroes, I completely sympathize with those of you who got into the beta and gave Marvel Heroes a try for a "second home".

But on the same coin, I can't altogether relate. I wouldn't ever ask why Torchlight or Din's Curse or Freedom Force can't be more like City of Heroes, and that is totally what these threads are doing--asking why an apple can't be an orange.

Long before I tried out CoH for the first time, I got my hands on a game called Fate, a fun dungeon crawler, one of those games I always used to go back to on a rainy day. I became a big fan of the developers, because they communicate with their fans a lot. That team went on to make another game based on Fate--which was Torchlight. It took (almost) everything that made Fate so much fun and added a bunch more too. Now of course there is Torchlight 2. I play these games for mindless fun, and I always go back to them, but I can't play them for weeks or months on end. Heck, I still play Ultima Online, one of the funnest dungeon crawlers in history as far as I'm concerned.

Marvel Heroes is a fun dungeon crawler with a super hero skin. It has a lot of fans on the dungeon crawler side, and those of us (like me) who are also comic book nerds are basically exploding with happiness over it. But, just like other super hero games I like to play, like Batman: Arkham X, The Amazing Spider-Man, Freedom Force, I don't see the point in asking how much they have in common with City of Heroes before I'll allow myself to enjoy them. There are a whole lot of dungeon crawlers I don't like also, but my dislike of them has nothing to do with CoH.

In fact, if you're looking for a CoH replacement...I think you're doing both yourself and the devs behind these fine games a great disservice. City of Heroes CANNOT be replaced. Masterpieces can't be. Stop looking, stop driving down that road, it is a dead end. For all the people who lament the passing of an irreplaceable game while searching for its replacement, I have but one question: what on Earth are you thinking?

Like our devs admitted on occasion, City of Heroes was born from a different era and it fell together, sometimes willfully and sometimes clumsily, almost like pieces from different puzzles; a freak accident, all those pieces becoming a masterful work of art despite all the stumbling in the dark that MMO studios did back when CoH was first created.

This is the first time I've posted in one of these threads, because they are never made for fans. The last thread was titled "Marvel Heroes, I think I'll pass, thanks." And this thread's title is equally condescending. So from the get-go I don't think these threads are being created for fair discussion, and as a fan of the game I haven't been inclined to voice my opinions at all. (I'm having an off-day today, I suppose.) Over in the Guild Wars 2 threads, posts were being deleted left and right for bashing the game, and yet where Marvel Heroes is concerned, we have two whole threads for just that very purpose. I had actually planned on making a more positive Marvel Heroes thread, but Aggelakis doesn't allow multiple threads on the same topic (I'm guessing this one slipped her radar, or the other one was sufficiently old). So, it's been off to the Marvel Heroes Hub or official beta forums with me. :(

TL;DR, I have been playing the Marvel Heroes beta for a long while now and I like it for what it is. I dropped cash on two founder's starter packs and a premium pack. Obviously I wouldn't like it if I tried to play it for what it isn't. And I don't even think it's a masterpiece for what it is. Only Din's Curse (with its Demon War expansion) deserves that title from me, an obscure indie title.

[Omega Force 1990]

If you enjoyed Ultimate Alliance (as I do), Marvel Heroes will disappoint you.  Ultimate Alliance allowed you to control your character and the camera, allowed your heroes to leap and fly.  This ... disgrace they have made is 11GB of garbage.  I was in the beta before I uninstalled -- it will be free to play, and I still felt overcharged.  The developers have straight out said they will not support WASD or controllers before launch, period.  As I understand it, the environments aren't fully rendered, so they will never be able to incorporate a panning camera.

So imagine Ultimate Alliance with mouse only controls, a fixed camera, and no block button.  (The last one hurt worse because I was playing freakin' Captain America!)

[Captain Electric]

Well, the camera issues and mouse controls aren't going to bother everyone like they do you. Ultima Online, the Torchlight games, and lots of other popular top-down isometric games have had fixed cameras. In UO's case you couldn't even zoom in until the new client came out (and FYI, most people still prefer the old classic client anyway).

I know that more and more contemporary gamers are getting used to full camera control. But for many fans of isometric games, it's just another day in the genre.

I'd defend your right to an opinion just like mine. But I think when people throw words like "garbage" around, they're really just interested in seeing the world fill up with things that please them specifically and no one else. The game has fans.

[dwturducken]

I understand where you're coming from, Cap'n, and I went into beta knowing that it wasn't a CoH replacement. I also went in knowing that I hadn't liked either of the first Diablo games. I have not and will not bother with the last, and I'm unlikely to try Torchlight or Torchlight 2.

I went in knowing that I was testing a game for bugs, and that is what I did. I did hope that the IP and storytelling would make up for the mechanics that I found annoying, because I still enjoy the late 90s D&D games in the style of Baldur's Gate and its sequels. I didn't really get into the forums, but I would play for a couple of hours each night (I was usually busy on the Saturdays) the servers were up, for the first few weeks, and I sent in bug reports when I ran into them. I'm a good little beta tester, dammit! :)

As for the game itself, nothing really caught fire for me. Some customization (aside from buying from a handful of established uniform sets) would make it a little more interesting, at first, but I just don't see even that making it a drastically better game. I should say that, with the exception of one Spider Man game for the PS2, I have hated every game I've played that was based on an established comic IP, until DCUO. I don't like DCUO, but it's at least playable.

[Candie Firestar]

I got into the closed beta this weekend.  Knowing nothing about the game's UI, controls etc., and coming in only knowing it's about Marvel superheroes, it was a fun little game to play.  Yes, being one of many of the same hero breaks immersion, but I could just ignore that since I play solo most of the time anyway.  The graphics are nice.  I chose to play Storm.  I didn't find any other character unlocks in the time that I played which was about 3-4 hours.

I see they took a page out of DCUO's "cutscenes" where it is stills of comic book art moved around.  I scoffed at the cut-scene where Spidey has a magic tablet and The Hood teleports behind him and snatches it out of his hands and teleports away.  WTF?  Wouldn't his Spider-sense warn him?

I don't see the game having a longevity.  I think most people want to make their own heroes and choose their own powers. 

I tried the game, but I don't think I'll play it when it goes live.

[Captain Electric]

Ha! Candie, I had the same exact reaction to that cut-scene. I read more Spidey than anything (although I stopped my subscription with #700 and am reading earlier story arcs I missed). This isn't at all about being biased though, because Spidey is just as likable for his weaknesses as his strengths. But his reaction time in a situation like that would definitely not be a weakness! The artist should have put that tablet in someone else's hands.

Speaking of art, I like the story panels, but even so, I made the rude mistake of asking in global, about the art in the first several panels, "So are these panels placeholder art for better stuff coming?" I was standing right next to the community manager Rockjaw when I said it (I didn't realize this at the time). Oops! (I really did feel bad.) The thing is, I guess I expected them to get someone like McNiven or, actually you know what, they should have scooped up Nakayama. Just Google those names. In Marvel Heroes they should have put their best foot forward in the art department, using artists who are tapped for big ticket story arcs and covers. Bear in mind I LIKE the game's comic panels. I realize this is a backhanded compliment I'm making. But they're trying to do BUSINESS and you can bet they desire this form of criticism. I feel like the game's comic panel art is from the bulk of the comics out there. It's just fine if you're doing the umpteenth story arc in the game or reading most issues of any Marvel comic. It's quickly drawn, it's not trying to wow you, it looks just fine. Just like not every episode of your favorite TV show wouldn't be fit for a DVD collection of greatest hits, not every comic book is fit for a $25 collectible edition. But, ya'know, I think the game shouldn't start with "just fine".

@dwturducken, I wish more people could be as objective as you in their feedback. I consider myself a lucky guy for getting into dungeon crawlers long ago. The first computer RPGs I ever played as a youngster were Ultima III: Exodus, the Temple of Apshai trilogy, Phantasie and the Adventure Construction Set (the latter being a big part of why I would get into CoH many years later, with Issue 14: Mission Architect--I've been big on UGC since 11 years old!). But I digress.

You set out to do something I would never have done--beta test within a genre that's not in my tastes. I likely would have warned you away from it--and I'm saying this about a game I really like. But I tip my hat...er mask, with lightning pointy things...to you for getting your comparisons right. In your post you compared this isometric dungeon crawler to other dungeon crawlers!

I feel bad (don't read that in the normal Internet condescending way, I mean I really feel bad) for those of you who never had entertainment like that grow on you, and who, after losing Paragon City, tried out Marvel Heroes with even the vaguest of hopes.

The genre is super-specific. It's actually a popular niche (but still, it's a niche). Those of you who don't think it'll last very long will of course be incorrect. Anyone who has followed the genre for years could predict it'll meet its publisher's expectations, or at least not fall catastrophically below them. It's just that those expectations aren't as big as you're probably imagining.

And really, most MMOs that do fall that far tend to get propped up long enough to see if some patches can improve the outlook and investment. Gazillion doesn't have such a huge stable that they're going to pull an NCSoft/Tabula Rasa. They only have one other big popular MMO and it's geared for kids.

[Omega Force 1990]

But I think when people throw words like "garbage" around, they're really just interested in seeing the world fill up with things that please them specifically and no one else. The game has fans.

Yes, and I was one of them until I tried to play it.  I think that's why I'm so mad about it -- and make no mistake, my rage has been building under the NDA -- action RPGs are my favorite genre.  Right now I have Dark Alliance 1 and 2, Hunter the Reckoning Wayward, Justice League Heroes, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, and X-Men Legends 2 on my shelf.  I don't think I've ever played a game that didn't give you the option of using the keyboard to move.  Maybe Shadows of Amn, but that didn't claim to be an action game.

[houtex]

I've been enjoying this game a lot.  Spiderman in particular is a ton of fun to play as, with his high mobility and speed debuffs/corrosive webbing DoTs.

Wait, what?  Since when did Spidey's webbing be corrosive?!

I know it's their baby, but seriously.  That's... wrong, peeps.  Wrong indeed.

/Be like saying Cyclops has a healing eyebeam or something.

[DarkCurrent]

Wait, what?  Since when did Spidey's webbing be corrosive?!

I know it's their baby, but seriously.  That's... wrong, peeps.  Wrong indeed.

/Be like saying Cyclops has a healing eyebeam or something.

Well TF Genosha couldn't launch without someone 'rockin da aura'.

[Illusionss]

I have two minds about this. Coming from City of Heroes, I completely sympathize with those of you who got into the beta and gave Marvel Heroes a try for a "second home".

But on the same coin, I can't altogether relate. I wouldn't ever ask why Torchlight or Din's Curse or Freedom Force can't be more like City of Heroes, and that is totally what these threads are doing--asking why an apple can't be an orange.

The comparison is being made here because Marvel Heroes and CoX are both games ostensibly involving superheroes.

Allow me to say in advance that these further comments may come off as snippy, although they are not really meant personally. I do apologize for that in advance.

This is the first time I've posted in one of these threads, because they are never made for fans. The last thread was titled "Marvel Heroes, I think I'll pass, thanks." And this thread's title is equally condescending.

Sorry. Got to call 'em like I see 'em.

We are all persons experienced with these concepts in this genre. We know what differentiates a good MMO from a bad one. Why can no one else so far make a decent superhero game? I think exploring "why not"  is a legitimate question.

I would really, really like for the Plan Z projects to avoid these pitfalls. Lets delienate the pitfalls so that we can avoid them, I say.

I feel bad (don't read that in the normal Internet condescending way, I mean I really feel bad) for those of you who never had entertainment like that grow on you, and who, after losing Paragon City, tried out Marvel Heroes with even the vaguest of hopes.

I know hope is stupid, but also Hope Springs Eternal. I am not looking for a clone of CoX. All I want is something playable, in a sci-fi setting, that allows me to cusomize my own characters. This does not seem like a high bar, but not unlike Jon Snow, I know nothing. 

The genre is super-specific. It's actually a popular niche (but still, it's a niche). Those of you who don't think it'll last very long will of course be incorrect.

Why would it last long? What is there to hold people over a period of years?

In CoX you had those same mission arcs and TFs, true, but you ran through them with a bunch of different characters and you were slowly honing YOUR CREATION through time and effort, to make him or her what you wanted them to be. It was all about the journey.

Here you are out the gate with: the Scarlet Witch. [or whoever] The Scarlet Witch is not yours, you did not think her up. You did not make her costume. There's 50 more of her at every spawn-point. If you are me, you cant even mousewheel close to her to get a good look at her. How am i supposed to form an emotional connection to that?

I admittedly say this as someone who FOR YEARS, had a Carnage clone in CoV. He had a derivative name but otherwise looked exactly like him. [So derivative, that he was never generic'd] He was a Claws/regen Stalker and let me tell you, there was very little he feared as far as bosses. I really wished there was a badge-title "Boss killer" because I would have went out of my way to get it for him. He was IOed out and slotted up through Hybrid. He BEGAN as someone else's idea, but over time....? He became MY idea. He got different costumes and he did his own stuff. I came to love him a lot. He was one of my top five characters and I miss him so bad I can hardly stand it.

We shall see if Marvel's distant click-to-move can inspire similar loyalty, which is possible but IMO far from a given: these are not equivalent games.

[Aggelakis]

This is the first time I've posted in one of these threads, because they are never made for fans. The last thread was titled "Marvel Heroes, I think I'll pass, thanks." And this thread's title is equally condescending. So from the get-go I don't think these threads are being created for fair discussion, and as a fan of the game I haven't been inclined to voice my opinions at all. (I'm having an off-day today, I suppose.) Over in the Guild Wars 2 threads, posts were being deleted left and right for bashing the game, and yet where Marvel Heroes is concerned, we have two whole threads for just that very purpose. I had actually planned on making a more positive Marvel Heroes thread, but Aggelakis doesn't allow multiple threads on the same topic (I'm guessing this one slipped her radar, or the other one was sufficiently old). So, it's been off to the Marvel Heroes Hub or official beta forums with me. :(

I have been busy buying a house (or in reality, repeatedly NOT buying a house *depressed*) so I don't get to be around as often as I was before. I'm merging these now. You can feel free to make a positive Marvel Heroes thread and I'll beat people with sticks if they poop in your cheerios. :)

[Illusionss]

[null]

[dwturducken]

Now, I feel like I have to make a positive thread about MH, just to see if it gets any traction. :)

[Captain Electric]

Thank you for the invitation to start a more positive thread, Aggelakis. At this point, though, we may as well put off doing that until June 4th (next month), or whenever the NDA lifts before then.  As for traction, well, not many threads here enjoy traction. Most fans of games will be off posting on those games' forums (or at the Marvel Heroes Hub in this case).

I don't expect a "positive" thread to gain as much traction as this one has, because I don't think the genre has mass appeal. But it would be nice for me to be able to talk about the game with a couple of other fans rather than just defend its worth to me. I'm sure you all can understand that desire. Because otherwise, you know, whatever people don't like, they tend to actively dislike, instead of just having no comment. These discussions never quite make sense to me at the end of the day anyway, because isn't this all subjective? And yet we talk about it like it's objective.

I have no illusions about what most City of Heroes fans are looking for--customization, customization, and more customization. And I'm right alongside you. I think the disconnect here is that I don't believe every super hero game that comes out is required to attempt to be our glass slipper. And asking Marvel Heroes to be that game is no more relevant than asking Terraria. It's a video game where you play established comic book super heroes. Those types of games will always have fans. And let me say also that I wouldn't want Gazillion/Secret Identity Studios making the game that would be an agreeable second home for us. I don't think that's what they're about. You want the right studio for the right job.

Illusionss, when you talk about staying power, the ability of a game to pull you in and keep you immersed, you're not talking about a game like Marvel Heroes. They know that. That's what I meant when I said, "It's just that those expectations aren't as big as you're probably imagining." I'm referring specifically to your quote, "Why would it last long? What is there to hold people over a period of years?" Well I love these types of games but they're not supposed to hold your undivided attention for years on end. Would you get immersed in some arcade game for years on end? I don't mean to sound personal and I know you don't either, but I think you're imagining a much larger burden for this game than is even remotely realistic. I am almost certain they aren't expecting super high retention rates. I can't say much without breaking my NDA (if I didn't already above), but the business model seems geared for new and repeat customers more so than "sticky" customers. Which is fine--that's exactly how people play these games! ;D

You come in, make a purchase or three, and play for a while. It's F2P from the start and there's no reward or mechanic for "investing" like you would with a subscription or hybrid model. They've said that publicly.

[dwturducken]

The NDA was lifted over the weekend. :)

http://www.tentonhammer.com/marvel-heroes/news/marvel-heroes-nda-lifted-open-beta-announced?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss