Author Topic: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM  (Read 147646 times)

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #340 on: December 03, 2012, 10:52:21 AM »
Thanks!  I had no doubt Team Wildcard's presentation package was sent with delivery notification.  Can you share with us if Disney sent any reply, even just a form letter saying they'd gotten it?   While I know you can't share the content, I'm certain it's a beautiful presentation with everything a prospective buyer might want to know.  Thank you again for Team Wildcard.   :)

If Disney contacts one of us I will be sure and let you know.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Victoria Victrix

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #341 on: December 03, 2012, 11:08:48 AM »
Write a letter to Disney in an attempt to
purchase 'City of Heroes'
and make NCSoft <-the S.O.B's who shut down the game]
a lot of money for the sale.

Money they couldn't extort from other game companies that made pitches.

My computer 'hung' up processing this data. 0000011110001110010101010101

...but I will think about it...
I did write letters way back, from the very beginning to NCsoft and other companies,
so don't get me wrong. I care a lot.

I've been becoming enlightened from the Titan effort in creating
their own Hero game to fill in the void. It seems full of the same energy CoH had
before NCsoft.

Yeah, trust me, I know.  I don't want NCSoft to profit by this in the least.  But picture this in your mind: Disney buys CoH.  Disney puts some proper marketing behind it.  Disney turns a profit in the first year, and gets a subscriber base up in the millions (we KNOW it will never, ever be a WoW-killer, but with proper management it can reap Disney a nice pile of cash).  Watch as the NCSoft stockholders turn on the management and ask, rightly, "Why couldn't YOU do that?"  Watch as their face not only fails, but falls with a splodgy splatter.  Watch as it becomes obvious that the reason NCSoft can't succeed in the West is because they don't try.  Watch as Nexon descends like a shark to devour the last shreds of the company.

It will be a (relatively) small infusion of cash that will lead to an inevitable downfall.  The proverbial poison pill. 
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Rae

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #342 on: December 03, 2012, 11:21:11 AM »
Ok the first point I can kind of agree to. The second, no chance. The "trust me, it's for your own good" thing is exactly a red line I won't cross. Believe me, I want to support this effort, and I do understand issues of confidentiality, but no, actually I don't trust you. No offence, but I don't know you from jack, and we have exactly one thing in common - we want to see CoH live again. But other than that I don't know anything about you, or the (non)team that put this effort together. Your take on this is not dissimilar to the Catholic Church's whole point about "don't let the peasants have a bible they can read, they might find us out" thing - and that's not to mention the whole Hail Mary bollocks! Why are we giving this some religious mumbo jumbo cloak? That in itself is entirely objectionable!

Here's a challenge: You want me to buy in to this - then post a redacted version of this 31 page document that excludes confidential information. Let me make an informed decision about how I proceed. If you don't, I call bullshit. Sorry but that's how I see it.

Like many others, I'm also a little baffled by the rage here.

If you don't feel you trust us, and that this isn't something you can support, you're not obliged to. We're not asking you to endorse the pitch or stake your reputation on it.  All we're asking people to do is to write letters to show that we're not the only four people in the world who want to keep on playing City of Heroes, and think that Disney would make a decent custodian for the game.

If you don't trust us, that's really your prerogative, but please understand that we HAVE to respect the confidences of the people who DID trust us with information we were told was for our eyes, and Disney's eyes only. 

There is, of course, also a good chance the pitch will have to be re-written at some point, and re-submitted to other studios. Ammon is probably the best person to confirm what is considered acceptable business practice, but my gut reaction is that if the content of the pitch has been circulating around the web in the run up to that time and the company we're asking to consider buying it is the LAST person to see it, it seems more than a little discourteous and unprofessional.

(Edited, because I can't speeel gud. Hur.)
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 03:48:57 PM by rae »
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Riff

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #343 on: December 03, 2012, 11:27:46 AM »
If you had been paying attention, I not only stated numerous times that I am author Mercedes Lackey, I actually PROVED it back when I first signed on to Save Paragon three months ago by quoting from one of my books not yet published (was published last month).  Clearly you have not been paying attention.

I see, forgive me for assuming that a Brit might possibly have some understanding of an American football term.  Oh, Wait, Ammon, Quinch and Rae are all Brits and they knew what I was talking about....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hail_Mary_pass  "A Hail Mary pass or Hail Mary route in American football refers to any very long forward pass made in desperation with only a small chance of success, especially at or near the end of a half.

The expression goes back at least to the 1930s, being used publicly in that decade by two former members of Notre Dame's Four Horsemen, Elmer Layden and Jim Crowley. Originally meaning any sort of desperation play, a "Hail Mary" gradually came to denote a long, low-probability pass."

No.

For two reasons.

One, I am not willing to take the chance that somehow, NCSoft will manage to connect something we wrote to our sources and proceed to sue them.  They don't deserve that.

Two, Disney is traditionally extremely secretive about all aspects of negotiation.  Even though we have made it clear that we are only four players pitching the idea of buying the game, and not those with whom they can negotiate anything, nevertheless, I am not willing to risk getting the whole pitch on their wrong side by making it public.

Now what I don't understand is, if you are really, truly, interested in seeing the game find a new home,  why are you having enormous tantrum ragefits over all this?  Are we asking you for money?  No.  Are we asking you to endorse the pitch itself?  Actually, no, not really. 

I'm sorry, but I call bullshit here.  You could very easily have quietly not written letters instead of demanding things you have no right to and having tantrums because we said no.

I see I touched a nerve or two here. Fair enough

I know who you are, I know of you. I think I may have even read some of your work in another life a long time ago. I have been paying attention. But I do not know you.

I don't follow American football. Over here, we use our feet to kick the ball when we play football - the clue's in the name. If we're throwing it, it's called Rugby. Very similar to your version but without the padding. No, I didn't know the context but then Why would I? We have so many great sports in the UK I don't need to follow some faux pastiche. But I guess the whole Hail Mary thing is still, ultimately a religious thing but no matter. I am now informed.

I'm not having anything close to an enormous tantrum ragefit over all this as you so delicately put it. I'm just calling it as I see it. If this is meant to be an open and inclusive project then the secrecy does bother me. I also appreciate that this isn't a massive sacrifice but if the pitch is that good, then surely it's in your interest to make at least some of it public so that, for example, we could highlight areas we felt especially relevant - maybe even encouraging people who can make decisions to go look at it, if they hadn't already seen it. It strengthens our hand knowing what has been sent, not weakens it. I appreciate there is sensitive info in there hence I suggested a redacted version.

Are you asking us to endorse the pitch? Arguably you are. You are asking for your efforts to be fortified by our letter campaign, to support the pitch, on the basis that the more letters that the Disney execs receive the stronger the pitch will be in their mind; that there's an entire community behind this effort who want the game to live. Your whole pitch to this community has been "We've put this document together to Disney that really sells them the idea of saving the game, now we need you to support that effort." That's absolutely fine and actually quite laudible in its own way, but if that's not asking us to endorse it, then I don't know what is.

Riff

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #344 on: December 03, 2012, 11:52:35 AM »
I'll tell you what, Riff.  Since you are such an expert on pitch packages and you don't trust our expertise in business practices, how about if you write your own and send it to Disney?

Oh, but you had better have the addresses, emails and phone numbers of senior Paragon Studios members to put in as your official contacts for actual negotiations.  Because if someone DOES come knocking, you are going to look really stupid saying "gee....I don't know who you could go to."

And you had better make it crystalline clear that YOU are not in any way able to sell the game.  Anything else is fraud.

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a flying frick if you do that.  It will still be one more "please buy the game, Mr. Pleasants" missive.  And if it should happen that the game does get bought and you want to claim all the credit for it, with your superior pitch, be my guest.  That and $5 will get you an overpriced latte at Starbucks.

Where have I claimed any of this? Where have I said I have a superior pitch? Please show me. I did actually spend quite some time getting involved in profiling another organisation so that we as a community could have made a similar pitch to the one you seem to have made to Disney. However due to a number of factors, that's rather had to be put on ice for now at least.

But rest assured I have at no stage belittled your pitch, and I have no knowledge of your business practices as I said previously so I have no scale to judge them. All I've said is it's hard to endorse, support or promote it without knowing the content.

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #345 on: December 03, 2012, 02:25:27 PM »
I guess it's still way to early to have expected to hear anything back from The Mouse?  Is the fact that we HAVEN'T heard anything at least evidence that they are at least thinking about it?

I don't expect to hear anything for a minimum of a month -- and that's only if the Disney execs read the pitch and immediately start short-stroking over the opportunity to grab a potentially lucrative and badly underexploited property; I would be surprised to see a resolution in under three months, and expect something closer to six months. No matter how much work Victoria Victrix and her team put into their presentation, if they're willing to consider it, Disney will make their own investigation of City of Heroes and Paragon Studios, looking at its performance, comparing it against the resources NCSoft let them have, to see whether CoH is a terminally niche market or a potential blockbuster stunted by what could be charitably described as 'benign neglect', and what benefit to Disney bringing in a population of demonstrably fanatically loyal customers will provide. If they decide that Paragon Studios and City of Heroes has enough potential to be worth acquiring, then they will open negotiations with NCSoft, at which point we won't hear anything until after the negotiations succeed or fail.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #346 on: December 03, 2012, 03:04:30 PM »
Riff, I think what they would like is if you would like Disney to buy the game, write them and tell them why. It doesn't matter if you say the same things that the pitch did, it would probably be better if you didn't. Along with the fact that they may need to use the pitch again like rae said, if everyone saw the pitch, Disney would just be getting watered down repeats of what was in it from people, and what Disney needs to see is passionate original letters.

Think of it as making your own plea to Disney at the same time as the rest of us are because that is the only way the little guy will get noticed. If you don't have reasons to support a Disney buyout, that's okay. Maybe if we end up on a second target, you will have reasons to support that.

To me they are not asking for blind faith, but for our own reasons we want Disney to buy, just without using them as the middleman(middlepeople?).

Ammon

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #347 on: December 03, 2012, 03:31:45 PM »
I'm not having anything close to an enormous tantrum ragefit over all this as you so delicately put it.
In which case, you have no excuse whatsoever for the line "I call bullshit".  That might be excusable as harsh words in anger, but since you instead seem to suffer an inherent lack of tact, manners, or even the ability to see why calling other's efforts bullshit is both offensive and unwarranted, then it is probably best that you don't write to Disney.

"Buy CoH or I'll call bullshit" might not be the kind of heartfelt persuasive message we're after.  Someone who can't understand a polite but firm "No" or understand that there are two sides to things, not just their own demands, should never be a negotiator.  And as a messenger, they'd only be fit for sending to Sparta.

So there, Riff, noone at all is now asking you to write to Disney.  You don't seem to be equipped with the necessaries.  If the cost of you maybe, possibly, kind-of, sending any kind of letter to Disney is that we breach confidences made with people who've actually put themselves on the line and gone out of their way, asking NOTHING but confidence in return, then that price is so ridiculous as to be like NCsoft asking more than anyone would bid.

We've heard your hard-bargaining counter-offer to a generous gift given for free of a chance to support reaching out to Disney.  No thanks.  We happen to think that "We've written to Disney, putting in our own time, words, effort, thought, and resources.  Why don't you do the same?" is a perfectly reasonable and very generous deal. 

Lily Barclay

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #348 on: December 03, 2012, 04:10:23 PM »
*facepalm* I thought we were the sort of community that brought things back down to civility after someone has had an over reaction, not the sort of community that continuously spits bile at each other. This is not a very good representation of who we are, in a very visible thread. Perhaps before we put emotional reactions out over the internets we should check and make sure our gun barrel isn't facing our toes first?

Ammon

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #349 on: December 03, 2012, 05:01:05 PM »
Lily, if you are reading bile into anything I said, I assure you that it is your own insertion.  My words are simply stating the reality that what we have done is a take it or leave it thing.  Join; don't join; your choices. 

We want people to join, (and by 'join' I mean only that they write their own pleas, in their own ways, making their own case, just happily coinciding with our effort), but not to the extent that we are going to breech confidence with those who helped willingly and didn't try to renegotiate the terms of a free gift.  And there is absolutely no point in encouraging further discussion on how/why/whether others think we should breech trust and confidence, as it will never happen.  Probably the why of why we were given that confidence.

I won't respond again trying to explain to those who have already either ignored, or argued, with polite explanation after polite explanation already (go back through the thread, at least 8 separate ways have been tried).  Anyone still harping to see the document at this point is just being rude.

Lily Barclay

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #350 on: December 03, 2012, 05:52:39 PM »
My point was that others may be reading it as such as well. I didn't quote your post because I think other posts in this thread fall under the umbrella of being passionate reactions that may come off as nastier than intended. I understand your frustration with the whole thing and I'm sorry you have had to deal with such questions after throwing your heart and soul into the pitch. People are really watching you since you are one of the authors, and that must also put a lot of pressure on you.

It's a great idea to ignore questions that you've already politely answered. Let the rest of us take some of the pressure off and help explain and deflect any issues. You have already done enough.

Thank you so much for the effort you and the others put into this, it is a truly fantastic thing. I just don't want anyone turned off by the way some of the disagreements are playing out. I suppose I just really love this community and unrealistically want everyone to get along. You know, like in a Disney movie.

Seriously though, I do want to thank you and everyone else involved with the pitch. I think it is brilliant.

Segev

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #351 on: December 03, 2012, 06:57:19 PM »
All I've said is it's hard to endorse, support or promote it without knowing the content.
What has been asked of us is that we write letters to Disney, at addresses provided in the opening post, saying why we love CoH, want to see it brought back online, and how we'd support Disney and their products relating to CoH if they were to buy it. We're not being asked to specifically endorse the pitch (though, as you noted, this is in support of it by providing volume of interest). We're not being asked to promote it (though we have been asked to spread word that a letter-writing campaign would be useful and well-timed and -targetted right now).

We need know only one thing about the content in order to know why we're being asked to write these letters and send them: that the pitch is directed at Disney and is asking that company to buy CoH lock, stock, and barrel for purposes of re-opening it and doing some Disney magic, perhaps, to expand on it.

We're being asked to write to Disney to say why we love it. To tell them we will support their new product line and make it profitable with our monies. And to tell them why we would love to see them have it, and maybe some wide-eyed, child-like visions of what Disney magic might do for our beloved franchise so that we might spend even more money and speak even more highly of the company that made something so wonderful of our lovingly shared world.

We need know only that the pitch exists and that it's asking Disney to buy the property for purposes of making CoH playable again. The purpose of our letters is to prove that the audience is here, just waiting, and that we, a loyal customer base, are in no small part what they'd be purchasing along with the package.

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #352 on: December 03, 2012, 07:19:14 PM »
It is not a religious term, rather it is a sports metaphor drawn from American football in regards to an extremely long distance forward pass that has a very slim chance of succeeding initiated either at or very close to the end of a half. So it isn't even remotely objectionable if you understand that particular context. It is so called because it is the sort of move that, to borrow another metaphor, "doesn't have a prayer," so in the process of initiating the action, might as well throw a prayer at it too, just in case.

The simple matter is that there are legal considerations for those who have written the pitch document, as there is solidly confidential information that could end all efforts before they got rolling if they were leaked to a larger audience. The people who put together this pitch are largely experts in their fields, which to my knowledge specifically deal with the sort of information included in that particular communication.

Well actually, the sports methaphor did originate from the religious term and same thing with the term "doesnt have a prayer.". For some, especially those that may not be into sports, those terms still caryy anywhere from mild to extreme religious connotations.

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #353 on: December 03, 2012, 07:36:42 PM »
Let me reiterate something that Rae said earlier, that I think some people have missed.

If you don't feel you trust us, and that this isn't something you can support, you're not obliged to. We're not asking you to endorse the pitch or stake your reputation on it.  All we're asking people to do is to write letters to show that we're not the only four people in the world who want to keep on playing City of Heroes, and think that Disney would make a decent custodian for the game.
This is it.  This is all that TFHM is asking.  You are not being asked to make a legal committment of some kind.  You are not being asked to invest any money beyond that of postage (and if you're outside of the United States, Altoholic Monkey has given you an alternative), and chances are you will not be interviewed.  You are not agreeing to any sort of legal contract that will then deny you your rights, and chances are good you will never have to speak of this event in a court of law.

Riff, If you don't feel you can, in good conscience, support the effort to convince Disney to make an attempt to purchase CoH, that's fine.  Don't.  But don't disparage those of us who can and have.  While you're at it, dropping the nettlesome, deliberately-barbed, patently-overblown sensationalist language would help too.  I'm specifically referring to stuff like the below, bolded emphasis mine.

But other than that I don't know anything about you, or the (non)team that put this effort together. Your take on this is not dissimilar to the Catholic Church's whole point about "don't let the peasants have a bible they can read, they might find us out" thing - and that's not to mention the whole Hail Mary bollocks! Why are we giving this some religious mumbo jumbo cloak? That in itself is entirely objectionable!
I don't follow American football. Over here, we use our feet to kick the ball when we play football - the clue's in the name. If we're throwing it, it's called Rugby. Very similar to your version but without the padding. No, I didn't know the context but then Why would I? We have so many great sports in the UK I don't need to follow some faux pastiche. But I guess the whole Hail Mary thing is still, ultimately a religious thing but no matter. I am now informed.
When people are talking about a "tantrum ragefit" it's this that they're talking about.  In the space of just these two posts, you have insulted a national pasttime, compared Team Wildcard to the Dark Ages Catholic Church, and accused them of using religious symbolism inappropriately, due in large part to your later-admitted ignorance of sports terms.

Specifically in regards to the choice of term "Hail Mary," it's certainly not limited to gridiron football, though that's where it got its start.  It has subsequently been used for similar situations in hockey, basketball, tennis, rugby and yes, even international football AKA soccer.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 08:16:57 PM by Kaiser Tarantula »

Segev

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #354 on: December 03, 2012, 07:38:29 PM »
In this case, the sentiments behind both are equally relevant. Even if one is not, oneself, religious, the concept of a move that just might work but has slim odds and thus needing all the help - divinely miraculous and otherwise - it can get should still seem accurate here. It's a long shot. If one is religious, a few prayers can't hurt.

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #355 on: December 03, 2012, 07:48:13 PM »
I fully "trust" this team and appreciate the efforts that they have put forth to date and moving forward.  I do not personally "know" any of you; however, I feel that the task at hand warrants our trust and support as a gaming community.  We all have one goal in mind here.  Please remember that. Hope to see you all soon.

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #356 on: December 03, 2012, 08:51:09 PM »
I fully "trust" this team and appreciate the efforts that they have put forth to date and moving forward.  I do not personally "know" any of you; however, I feel that the task at hand warrants our trust and support as a gaming community.  We all have one goal in mind here.  Please remember that. Hope to see you all soon.

This
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Globetrotter

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #357 on: December 03, 2012, 08:52:13 PM »
Facepalms with Lily: Guys (Girls): We have one common goal: save our beloved City! Fighting among ourselves won't help that goal.

Please stop it ....
Gutta cavat lapidem, non vi, sed saepe cadendo.

Rae

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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #358 on: December 03, 2012, 09:13:07 PM »
Thanks to everyone who's been supportive. And thanks to those who don't feel they can be at this stage, too, for at least caring enough to comment and have an opinion on it.

I know that everyone's a bit raw at the moment, and I appreciate that tempers are a little frayed given that we're still dealing with the sunset. But on the whole we've been lucky to have a mostly positive response to this - not just from the people who have been here since August 31, but also from the people who're just joining us now.

I felt like I needed to bring some love into this thread. Next up, a group meditation session and talking about our feelings ;)
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Re: Call to Action! Team Wildcard needs YOU! TF Hail Mary LFM
« Reply #359 on: December 03, 2012, 09:16:31 PM »
If you suggest Kumbyah I will pearsonally reach through this computer and slap you silly.... :P
As long as somebody keeps making up stories for it, the City isn't gone.