Better Business Bureau complaints

[Kosmos]

I spun this off from another thread (I feel petty, but...). I was hesitant to do so, in part because there was a previous thread (Light A Fire: Contact Consumer Interest/Consumer Protection Groups), but I do think there are a number legitimate complaints against NCsoftcore's business practices, and BBB is another way to get negative feedback to them to pressure them into action. Or at least more openness. So I decided to go ahead and make a BBB specific thread.

Here's a cut-and-paste of the BBB's complaints page (emphasis mine, and I removed an extraneous period while I was at it, because it bugged me)...

BBB has made it fast and easy for people to file complaints. We take complaints involving all types of businesses - online, offline, BBB Accredited Businesses or non-accredited businesses. We also accept complaints against charities and non-profit organizations. We primarily handle complaints relating to marketplace transactions, including advertising claims.

Use the following links to file a complaint:

General consumer complaints (other than Lemon Law/Auto Warranty) which includes, among others, misleading advertising, improper selling practices, and non-delivery of goods or services, complaints about nonprofit/charitable organizations and complaints about the misuse of personally identifiable information.

Complaints about Lemon Law/Auto Warranties.  These complaints are handled via the BBB AUTO LINE program.

The BBB's complaint process FAQ. This link is to the business-centric view of the complaint process.

Since they gave refunds for most things, most of the complaints would have to be about HOW they went about things, not about the end result. They can respond to a complaint about "non-delivery of goods or services" fairly easily by saying they gave a refund. IMO, the complaints should target the company's trustworthiness, which should most certainly not be getting the BBB's top grade.

In any case, if you do file a complaint make sure it is a cool-headed one. A tirade isn't going to impress anyone at BBB, they deal with those on a regular basis.

[Edit: Whooppsss, forgot to link to the complaint form]

BBB Online Complaint Form

[Victoria Victrix]

Miseleading advertising

NCSoft is still posting "Freedom! Play for free forever!" in some places.  Certainly this was highly misleading advertising since "forever" turned out to be about one year.

Improper selling practices

On the very day they shuttered Paragon Studios, people were still able to buy Paragon Points in the Marketplace, points for which they got no refund.  They certainly did not wake up the morning of Black Friday and say "Hey!  I think we'll close City of Heroes today!"  They must have been planning this for a minimum of a month.  Yet the Marketplace was open all that time, and points were being sold, points which could not possibly be used for the continued enjoyment of the game.

These are both legitimate complaints.

[Codewalker]

I thought they did refund points that were bought after a certain date? It was something ridiculous like a week before the announcement, but ones sold the day of should have qualified for it.

I'm thinking about filing a complaint about the extra character slots that I purchased and never got to use though... I still have like 20 global slots on both my accounts.

[Victoria Victrix]

I thought they did refund points that were bought after a certain date? It was something ridiculous like a week before the announcement, but ones sold the day of should have qualified for it.

I'm thinking about filing a complaint about the extra character slots that I purchased and never got to use though... I still have like 20 global slots on both my accounts.

I've only got anecdotal information that points sold the day of were not refunded.

I do know I bought points two weeks before, and I have not gotten a refund for those, so I will be filing a complaint on that basis as well as misleading advertising.

Anything you bought that you cannot use, you should be able to file a complaint about.

[Kosmos]

It was indeed just a week Player Services Status Update 9/18/2012.

[Kosmos]

Anything you bought that you cannot use, you should be able to file a complaint about.

I'd stretch this a bit further and amend "you cannot use" to "you cannot get full value from".

[Kaiser Tarantula]

Just so people aren't confused, even if someone else files their own complaint about a business's shoddy business practices, it doesn't, and shouldn't stop you from filing your own, even if it's for the same issue as someone else.  The BBB takes into account the number of complaints, how many people are affected by each issue, and the company's attempts to resolve the problem when determining the company's rating.

[NecrotechMaster]

Just so people aren't confused, even if someone else files their own complaint about a business's shoddy business practices, it doesn't, and shouldn't stop you from filing your own, even if it's for the same issue as someone else.  The BBB takes into account the number of complaints, how many people are affected by each issue, and the company's attempts to resolve the problem when determining the company's rating.

this is where our strength in numbers will show lol, getting like even 5,000 complaints for the same company in the same month will definitely be something to not shake a stick at, if we can beat that amount then it will just look worse for ncsoft (note the 5000 was just a random figure i estimated that we would put out easily)

[Moonfyire101]

you know, we were paying for a service which they can turn off at any time. It said so in the user agreement so really can't do anything about that but we can claim we feel jipped becuase we paid (even though they refunded) and looked foreward to an unreleased patch that they told us about. They also released the nature pack just before the anouncement. That is bad busness practice. Shut everything down right after people buy your new product and are waiting for the newest patch. Also we paid for the game. We own it. We deserve the right to play it offline or on another server. I paid for it dammit!

[JaguarX]

I'd stretch this a bit further and amend "you cannot use" to "you cannot get full value from".

Well keep in mind of the term "full value" from.

They may view that as like going at Motorola because you cant reactive your first generation flip phone (1995) today because it is deemed obsolete. Or going after Apple because the first generation is not compatable with today's software.

That is what I take away from the term "full value from" but I'm going to look up the term a bit more closely because I think it's hard to put an exact full term of use on a game because it seems to vary as much as car parts. Mercedes still make every car part for every car they made at least to post-ww2 years down to the bolts (although for ones prior to the 1975, you may have to contact the MBZ classic parts department directly in Germany and pay a grip.), while 1995-1996 Impala door panels and most parts are no longer made. 

Although I think COX had plenty of life left.

[Von Krieger]

I've only got anecdotal information that points sold the day of were not refunded.

I do know I bought points two weeks before, and I have not gotten a refund for those, so I will be filing a complaint on that basis as well as misleading advertising.

Anything you bought that you cannot use, you should be able to file a complaint about.

I bought $100 of points the day before their cut off. I sent about five e-mails ranging from the day of the event to the day after they announced refunds for point purchases.

I got back form letters every time.

I filed a chargeback/complaint with my bank. My bank got me NCSoft's Fraud department's phone number, which got me their e-mail, which FINALLY got me my money back.

[Segev]

I bought $100 of points the day before their cut off. I sent about five e-mails ranging from the day of the event to the day after they announced refunds for point purchases.

I got back form letters every time.

I filed a chargeback/complaint with my bank. My bank got me NCSoft's Fraud department's phone number, which got me their e-mail, which FINALLY got me my money back.

This much hassle required to get your money back is also worth pointing out to the BBB. "We make it possible to get your money back if you're not satisfied...but only if you spend hours and jump through 20 flaming hoops and agree to let us deliver it by putting the money in pies we throw at you while we laugh" is significantly less 'better business' than "We go out of our way to make sure that, if you're not satisfied, we return your money with as little hassle as we can while protecting ourselves from fraud."

[Aggelakis]

I got my money back without even asking about it, about the time they said they'd be giving money back. *shrugs*

[HEATSTROKE]

 I got money back I didnt even ask to be returned..

[eabrace]

I got mine back without asking, too.  But I didn't buy any extra points, either.

[Kosmos]

Reiterating what I wrote in the OP: Since they gave refunds for most things, most of the complaints would have to be about HOW they went about things, not about the end result. They can respond to a complaint about "non-delivery of goods or services" fairly easily by saying they gave a refund. IMO, the complaints should target the company's trustworthiness, which should most certainly not be getting the BBB's top grade.

[Kosmos]

Well keep in mind of the term "full value" from.

The meaning of terms like that in specific cases is often nailed down only by a judge or jury. Good business practices should lead to court infrequently. So the idea of "full value from" relies on the "reasonable person" standard that would likely apply there, but from the BBB's perspective should err to the favor of the customer.

[Osborn]

I sure as shit didn't get all my money back because I happened to buy it a week too early. It certainly should be considered fraud to advertise something like that, then to close it just as suddenly.

I know realistically if it was something offline like a paid subscription to a magazine that was aggressively promoting sales, collected a bucket full of money, then immediately vanished with a shrug that the BBB would lower their rating right away, but because it's online and something 'not serious' like a video game, then suddenly everybody acts like it's our fault for spending or caring in the first place.

We have to complain pretty assertive but politely even if it seems like it should be something any normal person would see as bad business without needing to say it, because the guys that arbitrate what is or isn't good business already has a massive disdain for our consumer group (gamers) as it is.