Author Topic: A response to NCsoft  (Read 171087 times)

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #400 on: October 10, 2012, 10:48:08 PM »
*cough*  Given the number of people who seem to be under the impression that I am here to collect sycophants and ego-strokes and throw my weight around, I hadn't said anything about this before...

But Larry and I are Special Guests of Honor at World Fantasy Con in Toronto http://www.wfc2012.org/ the first weekend in November.  Now...this thing is RIDICULOUSLY expensive to attend.  Truth to tell, I have never gone until now because it IS ridiculously expensive to attend.  I wouldn't suggest any of you come as attending members.  But I am going to have flyers printed up and pass them out at my autographings, and I *think* that an in-costume torch-bearing demonstration outside the hotel or in the hotel lobby would be all right.  I would email hotelliaison@wfc2012.org the hotel liaison or operations@wfc2012.org con operations to verify that this is ok with them.  And pending my schedule, I'll join you there.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Knightslayer

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 477
    • Monster Game!
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #401 on: October 10, 2012, 10:56:35 PM »
Sounds prestigious!
I think it's awesome that you'll be spreading the word there, VV.
And hopefully someone will take pictures if people are going to be torchbearing.

Rubberlad

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 29
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #402 on: October 11, 2012, 12:01:16 AM »
10 million years later and I finally got an evening free to properly register and show my support.

Thank you TonyV.
Thank you Victoria Victrix.
Thank you anyone and everyone who has taken the time to step forward and show their support.

Everyone's doing a great job and I look forward to helping support the Save Paragon City movement as best I can.

Keep up the good work.

Terwyn

  • Plan Z: Business/Marketing Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 432
    • Missing Worlds
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #403 on: October 11, 2012, 12:20:25 AM »
*cough*  Given the number of people who seem to be under the impression that I am here to collect sycophants and ego-strokes and throw my weight around, I hadn't said anything about this before...

But Larry and I are Special Guests of Honor at World Fantasy Con in Toronto http://www.wfc2012.org/ the first weekend in November.  Now...this thing is RIDICULOUSLY expensive to attend.  Truth to tell, I have never gone until now because it IS ridiculously expensive to attend.  I wouldn't suggest any of you come as attending members.  But I am going to have flyers printed up and pass them out at my autographings, and I *think* that an in-costume torch-bearing demonstration outside the hotel or in the hotel lobby would be all right.  I would email hotelliaison@wfc2012.org the hotel liaison or operations@wfc2012.org con operations to verify that this is ok with them.  And pending my schedule, I'll join you there.

Hey, that's not at all far from where I live. If I'm available, I might be able to take part.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
- Albert Einstein

http://missingworlds.wordpress.com

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #404 on: October 11, 2012, 12:54:57 AM »
Hey, that's not at all far from where I live. If I'm available, I might be able to take part.

I'm not a local (obviously, Oklahoma is a looooong way from Toronto) so someone else would have to do the torchy demonstration organization (and make sure it is OK to do in the first place).
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Kheprera

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 278
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #405 on: October 11, 2012, 01:29:45 AM »
Right.  Before *any* demonstration be sure to check city ordinances to see if permits are required.  Don't want any of us ending up in the pokey due to papework.

eeek

  • Underling
  • *
  • Posts: 13
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #406 on: October 11, 2012, 11:15:14 AM »
I am having visions of masked, spandex-clad superheroes holding Styrofoam torches being led away in handcuffs, in mid-day downtown Toronto, and giggling to myself.   ;D



emu265

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • Wait, what?
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #407 on: October 11, 2012, 10:44:19 PM »
I am having visions of masked, spandex-clad superheroes holding Styrofoam torches being led away in handcuffs, in mid-day downtown Toronto, and giggling to myself.   ;D
Well, it'd certainly make headlines.  But I doubt that those individuals want to be arrested.  Check it, haha.

JaguarX

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,393
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #408 on: October 11, 2012, 11:11:04 PM »
*cough*  Given the number of people who seem to be under the impression that I am here to collect sycophants and ego-strokes and throw my weight around, I hadn't said anything about this before...

But Larry and I are Special Guests of Honor at World Fantasy Con in Toronto http://www.wfc2012.org/ the first weekend in November.  I *think* that an in-costume torch-bearing demonstration outside the hotel or in the hotel lobby would Now...this thing is RIDICULOUSLY expensive to attend.  Truth to tell, I have never gone until now because it IS ridiculously expensive to attend.  I wouldn't suggest any of you come as attending members.  But I am going to have flyers printed up and pass them out at my autographings, and be all right.  I would email hotelliaison@wfc2012.org the hotel liaison or operations@wfc2012.org con operations to verify that this is ok with them.  And pending my schedule, I'll join you there.


Congrats, but according to website it's only 250CDN to attend it is not bad at all  considering still probably have to get there and find a hotel, maybe $600-$1000 for room and board and gas to get around total for the duration. I might be looking at the wrong spot on the website. It seems as if they are full and went into waiting list status. It would cost me more than $250 to get to Toronto from here even if I was able take off work and attend.

srmalloy

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 450
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #409 on: October 12, 2012, 03:00:34 AM »
But that's not the case with CoH. There's been no bad blood, no reason to save face, no reason...for anything at all really. The game wasn't costing the company money, it wasn't an advertising/marketing sink, it wasn't going to imminently collapse...there seemed every reason for Kim to continue supporting CoH as he had done before - one might even say more reason to carry on that support, because unlike Tabula Rasa, there'd been no high profile game development delay/lower than expected subs/game closure/court case fiasco attached.

There is, at least to my perception, a strong issue of face in the closing of CoH. The style of MMO that is popular in Korea is almost the complete antithesis of City of Heroes -- they virtually require grouping for most of the advancement, players can expect to farm encounters over and over again for a single rare or ultra-rare drop that only that encounter gives, and you are on a continual cycle of replacing your gear with better gear as you level, because things you had at level 1 are useless against level 50 mobs. And NCSoft keeps bringing these types of game to the Western market. They experience an initial rush of players interested in the "new shiny", which tapers off as people become frustrated with how much grinding it takes to get any significant advancement.

Meanwhile, over here, we've got City of Heroes. It's not a blockbuster -- a superhero MMO is a niche market among the endless variations on fantasy. And it died badly in Korea because the players didn't like it. But it's been going along in the Western market, turning a reasonably steady profit.

And because it continues to succeed, however modestly, while the Korean-style MMOs that NCSoft brings to the Western market lose popularity and die, CoH has become an embarrassment to NCSoft. Essentially, with the MMOs that NCSoft has brought to the Western market only to see them fail, NCSoft is going the same thing over and over again in the hope that the result will be different this time. And with them also running another game that is a success, while being almost the polar opposite of the games they keep pushing at the Western market, it demonstrates their lack of nunchi -- their inability or unwillingness to see and respond to what the Western market wants in an MMO.

By killing City of Heroes, NCSoft removes a gigantic zit on their face. With CoH gone, NCSoft can continue to bring one Korean-style MMO after another to the Western market, and if they don't succeed, NCSoft can use the convenient fiction that it's the subject of the game, not the content and play style, that is making them fail. All NCSoft has to do is find the right subject for an MMO, and the Western market will fall in love with it and flock to it in droves, and they'll recognize the inherent superiority of the Korean-style MMO and branch out to playing NCSoft's other MMOs.

And if NCSoft sells City of Heroes, now that they've cancelled it, they stand to lose even more face -- if the company that buys it increases the profits, then it makes NCSoft look stupid for having sold a profitable fproperty.

Segev

  • Plan Z: Interim Producer
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,573
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #410 on: October 12, 2012, 03:45:39 AM »
You know... and this could be the "Segev shouldn't be posting this late at night" level of bad idea...

But if srmalloy's analysis is accurate, what would the consequences - to NCSoft and to us as those pointing it out - be if we were to broadcast this theory as a blatant accusation of their inept and destructive attempts to hide incompetence?

Victoria Victrix

  • Team Wildcard
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,886
  • If you don't try, you have failed.
    • Mercedes Lackey
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #411 on: October 12, 2012, 03:55:25 AM »
There is, at least to my perception, a strong issue of face in the closing of CoH. The style of MMO that is popular in Korea is almost the complete antithesis of City of Heroes -- they virtually require grouping for most of the advancement, players can expect to farm encounters over and over again for a single rare or ultra-rare drop that only that encounter gives, and you are on a continual cycle of replacing your gear with better gear as you level, because things you had at level 1 are useless against level 50 mobs. And NCSoft keeps bringing these types of game to the Western market. They experience an initial rush of players interested in the "new shiny", which tapers off as people become frustrated with how much grinding it takes to get any significant advancement.

Meanwhile, over here, we've got City of Heroes. It's not a blockbuster -- a superhero MMO is a niche market among the endless variations on fantasy. And it died badly in Korea because the players didn't like it. But it's been going along in the Western market, turning a reasonably steady profit.

And because it continues to succeed, however modestly, while the Korean-style MMOs that NCSoft brings to the Western market lose popularity and die, CoH has become an embarrassment to NCSoft. Essentially, with the MMOs that NCSoft has brought to the Western market only to see them fail, NCSoft is going the same thing over and over again in the hope that the result will be different this time. And with them also running another game that is a success, while being almost the polar opposite of the games they keep pushing at the Western market, it demonstrates their lack of nunchi -- their inability or unwillingness to see and respond to what the Western market wants in an MMO.

By killing City of Heroes, NCSoft removes a gigantic zit on their face. With CoH gone, NCSoft can continue to bring one Korean-style MMO after another to the Western market, and if they don't succeed, NCSoft can use the convenient fiction that it's the subject of the game, not the content and play style, that is making them fail. All NCSoft has to do is find the right subject for an MMO, and the Western market will fall in love with it and flock to it in droves, and they'll recognize the inherent superiority of the Korean-style MMO and branch out to playing NCSoft's other MMOs.

And if NCSoft sells City of Heroes, now that they've cancelled it, they stand to lose even more face -- if the company that buys it increases the profits, then it makes NCSoft look stupid for having sold a profitable fproperty.

This is both fascinating and horrifying.  I hope we can make not selling it far more expensive in terms of face than sitting on it forever.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Terwyn

  • Plan Z: Business/Marketing Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 432
    • Missing Worlds
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #412 on: October 12, 2012, 03:58:41 AM »
This is both fascinating and horrifying.  I hope we can make not selling it far more expensive in terms of face than sitting on it forever.

We are certainly heading that way.
Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius -- and a lot of courage -- to move in the opposite direction.
- Albert Einstein

http://missingworlds.wordpress.com

SithRose

  • Plan Z: Lore Lead
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,981
  • The Phoenix is coming.
    • Missing Worlds Media - Plan Z: The Phoenix Project
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #413 on: October 12, 2012, 05:50:54 AM »
We are certainly heading that way.

That IS the general idea...We're now operating on Plan B implementation.

We've still got 24 letters to go....
(Uh...what exactly ARE plans D-Y, anyhow? I think Plan C is temporary private servers with reverse-engineered code...)
Lore Lead for Plan Z: The Phoenix Project
Secretary of Missing Worlds Media, Inc.

Quinch

  • Guest
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #414 on: October 12, 2012, 05:55:59 AM »
Maybe we should give those plans actual names?

HEATSTROKE

  • Lovin' bein' an
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 992
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #415 on: October 12, 2012, 12:56:34 PM »
I am hoping November 1st is a day that will bring some news that can rally the troops. Im hoping at this point that Paragon Studios forms their own group and starts work immediately on their own projects. That I believe would keep the community together and excited. I just do see NC Soft selling the IP. I see them just making it difficult for ANYONE to acquire it.. Not even with monetary demands but with legal mumbo jumbo..

I will never ever ever ever support NC Soft/Nexon again.

You broke my heart Fredo.. you broke my heart..

JetFlash

  • Boss
  • ****
  • Posts: 100
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #416 on: October 12, 2012, 01:02:21 PM »
Essentially, with the MMOs that NCSoft has brought to the Western market only to see them fail, NCSoft is going the same thing over and over again in the hope that the result will be different this time.


Doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is one definition of insanity.

Turjan

  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 270
  • You cannot kill a dream
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #417 on: October 12, 2012, 01:11:30 PM »
There is, at least to my perception, a strong issue of face in the closing of CoH. The style of MMO that is popular in Korea is almost the complete antithesis of City of Heroes,
A valid point - in lieu of anything approaching logic or rationality on NCSoft's part (because they certainly haven't shown any) I've considered whether the whole thing might be a face-saving exercise.

Then I thought of Nexon.
As I discovered, NCSoft's CEO sold 2/3 of his own stake in NCSoft directly to Nexon, so it would only be fair of us to regard Nexon as a player here too. After all, selling that much stock could be interpreted as 'losing face' if we chose to look at it that way, but I'm assuming it's not regarded as such in Korea otherwise it likely wouldn't have happened in the first place.

Nexon seem to be keen on expanding into the MMO world in the west (they do own and run Maple Story, which has quite a following in the west) - even to the point that Nexon America's CEO effectively said "bring it on!" in a recent interview when asked about competing in the west with and against western titles. So surely what they'd WANT in the western would actually be the antithesis of a Korean grindy MMO? And why fight for a market share when your new best friend NCSoft has already had a foot in the door of a uniquelly western genre for eight years? Surely acknowledging CoH as a slice of Korean-run success in the western world would be an act of gaining face because a Korean company would be beating the west at its own game...wouldn't it?
Once again, there's no logic in their action.

Quote
And if NCSoft sells City of Heroes, now that they've cancelled it, they stand to lose even more face -- if the company that buys it increases the profits, then it makes NCSoft look stupid for having sold a profitable property.
That's certainly a logical reason to hang on to the IP - one of many in fact. As I said in a post yesterday, the more I look at it, the more reasons I find for keeping CoH alive rather than closing it down. But once that decision was made, there's a lot of logic to NCSoft retaining the IP. It's just the closure itself that's completely illogical, even as an exercise in saving face.

eabrace

  • Titan Moderator
  • Elite Boss
  • *****
  • Posts: 4,292
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #418 on: October 12, 2012, 02:52:23 PM »
That IS the general idea...We're now operating on Plan B implementation.

We've still got 24 letters to go....
(Uh...what exactly ARE plans D-Y, anyhow? I think Plan C is temporary private servers with reverse-engineered code...)
Plan A was essentially "convince NCsoft to let the IP go to Clayton and the former Paragon developers".  They appear not to have taken us up on that option.

Plan B was then "convince NCsoft to let the IP go to some development studio that would keep the game alive".  They also appear not to have taken us up on that option.  We are, however still following through on this one right now by continuing to make noise and make that decision as costly as possible while still leaving the door open for them to change their minds.  Operation: Noisemaker, if you will.

Plan C is somewhere in the middle of "reverse engineer everything."  We can think of this as Operation: Blackbox.
Titan Twitter broadcasting at 5.000 mWh and growing.
Titan Facebook

Paragon Wiki admin
I was once being interviewed by Barbara Walters...In between two of the segments she asked me..."But what would you do if the doctor gave you only six months to live?" I said, "Type faster." - Isaac Asimov

jamvaru

  • Minion
  • **
  • Posts: 41
  • ;] jamvaru
Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #419 on: October 12, 2012, 03:52:32 PM »
Why didn't they ever merge some servers?  Or did they?