Author Topic: A response to NCsoft  (Read 171115 times)

Knightslayer

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #220 on: October 08, 2012, 02:39:39 PM »
That is essentially my background gut feeling about it, there is already the option for it in the game *right now* to do it.

And this is a good way to see how well people do it without the need for something in return.

Buy points, save them... although I would *love* the option to be able to gift them to other players.
Now that I would approve of, it's also something that hasn't really been done yet - the closest I've seen it come is some games giving the option to sell store currency for in game money (Perfect World and GW2 being my prime examples), and TERA online has the option to auction house (30 day) game time cards on their in game AH - but not trade or gift them ironically.

Segev

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #221 on: October 08, 2012, 03:32:55 PM »
Like I said, STO already has a multi-tiered subscription system. Provided the "Super VIP" levels don't add content, but only add more perks and conveniences, I think it will be okay.

dwturducken

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #222 on: October 08, 2012, 03:38:46 PM »
The "F2P riffraff" mentality has never been something I've felt was a problem in any game, but that doesn't mean others didn't see it.  I don't have access to numbers, obviously, but I do know that Exalted never had yellow dots next to it after about the first month it was up.  I have almost all the character slots filled, and the highest level character is still in the low twenties.

STO had something that had to do with boxes dropping that required keys you could purchase with points. No idea what was in the boxes, because I was trying to see how the experience was for someone spending no money, but it did leave me feeling like I was missing out, somehow.  I can't remember if something like that was in CO, but their drop system was similar (something floating in the air that you have to "pick up"). I still don't know what the things do that drop. It seems like they've changed something, but I don't play it in a meaningful way.

Point being, drops are an expected part of this kind of gaming.  If it isn't going to be for enhancements or crafting, then a purpose will have to be found for things dropping after a fight.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

TonyV

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #223 on: October 08, 2012, 05:39:04 PM »
Hey all, I'm not trying to shut down conversation, but we're a long way away from having to deal with any issues around how much to charge for what tiers of subscription fees or various items.  That's probably something that would be better discussed in one of the City Sunset forums.

As for the suggestion to give up, roll over, and accept our inevitable fate, I don't find that very useful or productive.  We already have "that guy" who's been telling us that since August 31; his name is NCsoft.  And with all due respect, I don't need lectures about how I should be nicer or more respectful towards Koreans.  First of all, it's a bit insulting to Koreans to simplify all of the issues down to "they just want to save face, that's all that matters."  Second of all, many of the Koreans who run NCsoft have lived extensively in the United States, are familiar with the Western world, and have been heavily influenced by Western ways of doing business.

Third of all, and arguably most relevant, if you read the history of my posts (including the top post in this very thread), you'll realize that I was very respectful and deferential of NCsoft for over four weeks, focusing exclusively on how selling the game would be a win-win-win solution for us, Paragon Studios, and especially NCsoft.  This isn't a Korean thing; it's just smart business sense.  However, it's also smart business sense that when one avenue is shut off to acquiring what you want, you don't just accept your inevitable fate; you figure out other avenues to get it.

Believe me, I would like nothing more than to stay happy and positive going forward.  But we tried that.  It didn't work.  So we're trying something else.

And one thing that I think is being lost here is that we are being treated with an incredible amount of disrespect by NCsoft.  First, they decide to shut down our game which was doing pretty well and lay off 80+ people that some of us had a bond with that was more than just people who make products we enjoy.  Next, they engage in negotiations in which I personally believe they acted in bad faith, turning down offers that were more than reasonable, prioritizing their own inaction and possibly unfounded fear over making profit and helping to save a community, even though their very own Mission Statement is: "The ultimate mission of NCSOFT is to make each and every one on earth happier. That is, to make people's lives more enjoyable."  They also say, "Our organization is built on trust and tight enough that there is no communication barrier."  And my favorite: "Do not hesitate doing what is right. Be brave at carrying out what we believe is right into practice."  To be blunt, at this point I feel that we are living up to NCsoft's visions and goals better than they are.

So please, no more lectures on how I need to be deferential to the poor Koreans who just want to save face until the game shuts down November 30.  We tried, and we're past that now.  At this point, they are insulting us with this "exhausting all possibilities" talk, and if we simply sit by and say, "Thank you for your disingenuous response!", there's no way we can expect--or deserve--to be taken seriously.  At this point, they really do need to be thinking about how to save face, and it's their own durn fault.  I'll be happy to work with them to that end, but as long as there's this communication barrier that their vision statement says doesn't exist, I can't help too much.

I'm still not encouraging us to go scorched earth on NCsoft, but I've been warning them all along that if they choose the path they've apparently chosen, it will cost them in negative public relations.  Not out of spite, but because I do not believe that they are acting as an honorable company in dealing with this issue, and bad public relations is the consequence of acting in such a manner.  I still hold out hope that they will realize their mistake--which again, isn't disassociating themselves from City of Heroes, but in being so closed-minded about selling it so that the community can continue on.  I was hoping that our positive message would accomplish that, but it didn't, so they have chosen the route of criticism instead.  That wasn't our choice, but it's the only one they've given us.

downix

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #224 on: October 08, 2012, 05:42:44 PM »
Well said Tony.

We gave them the option for a way to save face. They chose to instead pick the dishonest and dishonorable path. They have picked their own battle, we will just make them fight it.

Segev

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #225 on: October 08, 2012, 05:50:30 PM »
That's their Mission Statement? Fascinating.   8) There's something to be gained, there.

Knightslayer

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #226 on: October 08, 2012, 05:50:47 PM »
Good points, Tony.  ;D

corvus1970

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #227 on: October 08, 2012, 06:04:35 PM »
Superb post Tony. You truly are indeed "the MAN".

And because of that, you get a Ric Flair "WHOOOOOOO" from me :)
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Turjan

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #228 on: October 08, 2012, 06:10:30 PM »
Eloquent and to the point as always Mr V :)
/e clap

void hunter

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #229 on: October 08, 2012, 06:14:40 PM »
I'm sorry, but I'm going to speak out on this.

You guys have been posting over on the CoH forums for people to come here and participate. This draws attention. When people do come here, it seems at least a few people have seen the unrealistic way of going about things, and have made comments. Now, being INVITED over here, people falsely assume that their input is welcome, only to find out that if it is not identical to the opinions here then they are labeled as a troll, or corporate spy, etc.

The truth is simple, regardless of what spin you want to put on it. If you piss someone off, your chances of ever getting them to deal with you are slim at best. NCSoft didn't listen to your pleas. There are quite a few people that told you they probably wouldn't, hell even you guys said it was all a longshot. Then your pleas turned into veiled threats and tantrums, and for some reason you think this is justified? You keep calling CoH "our game", but it isn't, it's theirs. You don't own anything here. They decided to close it, and you can't force them to do anything.

Get pissed at me, delete my posts, do what you want. It doesn't change anything. You have power here in your forum, but you don't have any over a company like NCSoft. You don't have the numbers, and you don't have the cash. You keep saying they turned down reasonable offers, but every time I checked, you didn't even know what the numbers were.

Tony, you'll never grow if you don't listen. I get it, you're on a crusade, but shutting people down just because you can isn't the answer. That's what NCSoft did, and you didn't respond too well.

VV, calling everyone that has an opposing view an abuser isn't the way either. That person didn't call you a bunch of names either, and didn't tear you down on a personal level. They commented about the unrealistic expectations AND actions that are being perpetuated here. They didn't do it maliciously either. I suggest you work on whatever issues you seem to want to project on people when they voice their opposition to something.

I've said what I meant to, and I fully expect this thread to be deleted, but hopefully others will read it first. You're losing more support each time you take this further from reason.

Buxley

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #230 on: October 08, 2012, 06:15:14 PM »
You make excellent points, Tony.

My personal feeling is that NCsoft is greatly underestimating the long-term damage they are doing to their brand as well as the ill-will they are building up among the soon-to-be displaced players, their families, friends, etc. You just can't afford that much bad publicity in today's globally networked world of social media. You just can't do something like this quietly any more.

Another thing is that if, for whatever reason, NCsoft decided to reverse their decision about closing the studio and/or sold the studio a lot of this ill will would simply go away. People appreciate that it takes a lot of will to say "you know, after further review, we've changed our mind".

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #231 on: October 08, 2012, 06:17:41 PM »
That's their Mission Statement? Fascinating.   8) There's something to be gained, there.

Screenshot it before they change it on you  :P
Keep fighting the good fight!

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dwturducken

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #232 on: October 08, 2012, 06:20:30 PM »
I'm sorry, but I'm going to speak out on this.

You guys have been posting over on the CoH forums for people to come here and participate. This draws attention. When people do come here, it seems at least a few people have seen the unrealistic way of going about things, and have made comments. Now, being INVITED over here, people falsely assume that their input is welcome, only to find out that if it is not identical to the opinions here then they are labeled as a unicorn, or corporate spy, etc.

The truth is simple, regardless of what spin you want to put on it. If you piss someone off, your chances of ever getting them to deal with you are slim at best. NCSoft didn't listen to your pleas. There are quite a few people that told you they probably wouldn't, hell even you guys said it was all a longshot. Then your pleas turned into veiled threats and tantrums, and for some reason you think this is justified? You keep calling CoH "our game", but it isn't, it's theirs. You don't own anything here. They decided to close it, and you can't force them to do anything.

Get pissed at me, delete my posts, do what you want. It doesn't change anything. You have power here in your forum, but you don't have any over a company like NCSoft. You don't have the numbers, and you don't have the cash. You keep saying they turned down reasonable offers, but every time I checked, you didn't even know what the numbers were.

Tony, you'll never grow if you don't listen. I get it, you're on a crusade, but shutting people down just because you can isn't the answer. That's what NCSoft did, and you didn't respond too well.

VV, calling everyone that has an opposing view an abuser isn't the way either. That person didn't call you a bunch of names either, and didn't tear you down on a personal level. They commented about the unrealistic expectations AND actions that are being perpetuated here. They didn't do it maliciously either. I suggest you work on whatever issues you seem to want to project on people when they voice their opposition to something.

I've said what I meant to, and I fully expect this thread to be deleted, but hopefully others will read it first. You're losing more support each time you take this further from reason.

We've recognized this and are working on it.  The greatest influx appears to have been after the PR Massengill NCSoft poured on us, so patience was low and tempers were high. The fact that you're still here, as are others, is appreciated.
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Moonfyire101

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #233 on: October 08, 2012, 06:24:22 PM »
I'm honestly not a fan of the whole "Super-VIP" thing, I think it will always create the appearance of "I'm not getting the full experience unless I put down 20$", which once again brings us to "Why not give our money to the competition where I DO get the full experience for 15$?".
People who -want- to support the game won't need a special subscription to do so, that's what the whole Paragon Store is for.

Which is why i said not to make it anything that would do that. I think super vip can work without causing "I'm not getting the full experience unless I put down 20$". We justneed to pick something that isn't a big deal but that thos who wanted to help support a little more and could affort to would do. Like i suggested before maybe just a name color change, a special title and as others suggested an extra server transefer per month or something.

oops i missed tony's post. yeah guess this should be in the sunset thread, sorry tony.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 06:32:01 PM by Moonfyire101 »

pandora114

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #234 on: October 08, 2012, 06:24:45 PM »
I've been pretty scathing in my opinion on their "New Direction"  It's  insulting how stupid they think gamers are over here. 

downix

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #235 on: October 08, 2012, 06:25:49 PM »
Void Hunter, I understand where you are coming from, and if I'd annoyed you with something I'd said, my apologies. Emotions are running high right now, and anger is seeping in. People do not like being lied to, so it is understandable.

corvus1970

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #236 on: October 08, 2012, 06:26:04 PM »
Then your pleas turned into veiled threats and tantrums
I have yet to see a "tantrum" from Tony, or anything remotely resembling one.
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void hunter

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #237 on: October 08, 2012, 06:31:59 PM »
I have yet to see a "tantrum" from Tony, or anything remotely resembling one.

Well, read through the threads, you'll see plenty of them. Also the whole, "Let's shame them using things from their culture" thing isn't exactly a shining moment I want people thinking about Americans. Regardless of of what people are assuming about NCSoft, they're in fact not out to get us. Their goal is not to insult everyone, it's to close a part of their own company. The truth is probably not a consolation, but they really became apathetic towards us once they decided to close the game. Just like a relationship you can't force someone to stay with you once they decide to leave. Once the "being sweet" thing doesn't work, shame and brute force never will.

Johnny Joy Bringer

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #238 on: October 08, 2012, 06:36:18 PM »
Perfectly expressed. Is it time to ask their major investors why they are allowing this?

downix

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #239 on: October 08, 2012, 06:37:25 PM »
Well, read through the threads, you'll see plenty of them. Also the whole, "Let's shame them using things from their culture" thing isn't exactly a shining moment I want people thinking about Americans. Regardless of of what people are assuming about NCSoft, they're in fact not out to get us. Their goal is not to insult everyone, it's to close a part of their own company. The truth is probably not a consolation, but they really became apathetic towards us once they decided to close the game. Just like a relationship you can't force someone to stay with you once they decide to leave. Once the "being sweet" thing doesn't work, shame and brute force never will.
They shut down a profitable division and then ignored options to offload it. That is mishandling shareholder value. Over and above the game itself, this is not acceptable corporate behavior.