Author Topic: A response to NCsoft  (Read 171102 times)

Moonfyire101

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #200 on: October 08, 2012, 01:32:03 AM »
For $20 a month, a free server transfer every month, four free whackypacks every month, and a special SuperVIP costume.  I'd pay for that.  None of these things "cost" the company anything.

thats good too

Kaos Arcanna

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #201 on: October 08, 2012, 02:01:18 AM »
How about a free server transfer and a free rename token every month? :D

Victoria Victrix

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #202 on: October 08, 2012, 02:16:19 AM »
How about a free server transfer and a free rename token every month? :D

I would probably go for that too.
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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #203 on: October 08, 2012, 02:32:15 AM »
what if we kept it 15 and kept the store but we added something extra that if you pay 20 you get. Something that only people who wanted to help coh and could afford would pay for but noone else would be pressured through "need". By need i mean, map or powers. Everyone will feel pressured by content thats why we pay for vip. Well, that and we are loyal. But noone wants to be left out of th fun.  So maybe for 20 you get a special title, name color change and a special aura.
That's a terrific idea. Kudos to Emu for dubbing it Super-VIP too. I think the playerbase would go for this.
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Ichaerus

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #204 on: October 08, 2012, 03:47:56 AM »
I would offer caution on what's offered via the store/VIP/Super VIP what have you.  I'd rather not have it turn into "Pay To Win" that some of the other MMO games have, such as DDO or LOTRO with what can be acquired.  In my opinion, the Free to Play model the MMO Fallen Earth offered was the best one.  For example, subscribing players could..."bypass" EXP debt if they "forget to duck" in a fight and get knocked out.

The other thing is this.  Let's say(especially in this economy), that you're going along as a subscriber, 15-20 clams a month, but you have a period of time where you're hard up on money, and you have to pass on subscribing to the "yellow banana sticker" super VIP status, the status where you get an exclusive costume, or nifty aura, what have you.  What happens then?  Do you rip away that costume/aura from the person until they get back on their feet?

Moonfyire101

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #205 on: October 08, 2012, 04:41:43 AM »
I would offer caution on what's offered via the store/VIP/Super VIP what have you.  I'd rather not have it turn into "Pay To Win" that some of the other MMO games have, such as DDO or LOTRO with what can be acquired. 

Which is why i said it shouldn't be anything that's a real big deal. Nothing that can turn the tides in PVP or leave other players out like special zones.

emu265

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #206 on: October 08, 2012, 05:01:21 AM »
Which is why i said it shouldn't be anything that's a real big deal. Nothing that can turn the tides in PVP or leave other players out like special zones.

I agree.  I don't think anything in super-VIP would offer any competitive advantages.  Right now, VIP players get sets like Time Manipulation for free, but are locked out when they go back to Premium.  Costumes are a bit stickier.  Perhaps the characters would then just get to keep all their current costumes, but if you edited them you'd lose the costume piece unless you returned to Super-VIP?

Moonfyire101

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #207 on: October 08, 2012, 05:03:58 AM »
I agree.  I don't think anything in super-VIP would offer any competitive advantages.  Right now, VIP players get sets like Time Manipulation for free, but are locked out when they go back to Premium.  Costumes are a bit stickier.  Perhaps the characters would then just get to keep all their current costumes, but if you edited them you'd lose the costume piece unless you returned to Super-VIP?

yes, i think that is how they do it with vip content so that would also work for super-vip.

claedon

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #208 on: October 08, 2012, 05:24:00 AM »
I almost hesitate mentioning this option, because I have the feeling that people will dismiss it out of hand, as was done previously.  However, another option for Super VIP might be an ongoing, permanent 2-3x increase in earned supergroup prestige / individual influence and yes, experience.

Before this suggestion gets crucified, consider the following.  I dearly love this game, the only game where I have no qualms going out and defeating bad guys with my 5 year old son.  He loved superheroes and still does.  We have created several superheroes together since 2006.  We were looking forward to when his three year old brother would be old enough in a couple of years to do the same thing.  Unless our efforts as a community succeed, this will not be an option for him, and that will be sad.

With three kids (two toddlers), a job where I work 60+ hours a week, volunteering at our church's food bank, and sitting on the board of a non-profit, finding the time even to go to the gym to remain healthy is difficult.  As such, I feel lucky if I can squeeze in 1-2 hours a week of personal time to play CoH.

The affection for this game in our family is very high.  Saying that however, I have never managed to be able to have the time to get a character to level 50, let alone gather enough prestige with my "supergroup" of one to build a cool base.  I rarely team since I don't want to disappoint other people with the small amounts of time I can spend online before dropping out to address real life events.  Because of the amount of time it takes to increase levels, I've missed out on the cool Oroborous thingy :-), seeing what the highest end powers do and look like, exploring the incarnate system, working through the Kheldian story lines, etc.  Since the announcement, I have spend additional time in game, but it will likely never be enough to experience all of the wonderful things that many other players have had years to enjoy.

Given all of that, if I could have the ability to hammer through a few levels a week on only 1-2 hours of play time per week, that would be spectacular.  I wouldn't mind paying an extra $20-$40 / month on top of the current VIP subscription to have that ability.  I imagine that there are others who would really enjoy a game with more story, more heart, than Farmville or Mobsters or some other browser based game, but who do not have much time to dedicate.

Just a thought respectfully given, so please consider it as yet another option that might help continue to justify the life of the "city" that is such a large part of all of our lives.

Best Regards,
Eric

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #209 on: October 08, 2012, 05:25:12 AM »
Cracked.com crossed my mind. "5 biggest MMO blunders?"

i think that this would also be really good, i dont personally read cracked but i know a lot of people who do

Triplash

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #210 on: October 08, 2012, 07:43:33 AM »
Given all of that, if I could have the ability to hammer through a few levels a week on only 1-2 hours of play time per week, that would be spectacular.  I wouldn't mind paying an extra $20-$40 / month on top of the current VIP subscription to have that ability.

There are actually double XP boosters, like the 50% ones in the store, that were made but only ever sold once for a very limited time. Apart from that I believe the only other way to get them was going to be through the second set of super packs.

What if the Super VIP reward included access to a category in the store where folks could buy the limited time items, all year round? Things like the double xp boosters, holiday costume packs and pets, and so on. Maybe after a while add the older Tier 9 VIP costumes that have rotated out, or the costume set and ultra-rare item from the super packs. Things that a lot of people were looking for a way to directly buy. You wouldn't even have to discount them, just make them available at a set price and whenever the customer went looking for them. If the player chooses not to become Super VIP then they'd have to get these items the regular way - by waiting for the item to turn up in the regular store, by taking chances with super packs, or what have you.

The normal Super VIP price for small consumables such as dual inspirations could be half what they are in the regular store as well, helping to promote more purchases overall. There could also be unannounced "extreme sales" where a regular-store item would be 50% off for a weekend, or 75% off for a day. Maybe even 90% off for an hour, the sort of sale that gets promoted heavily by word of mouth and inspires folks to be pre-signed up as Super VIP so they can be ready to take advantage immediately when it comes along.

The double xp boosters and low consumable prices would be constant draws, with the sales and other items causing occasional surges. This would give many people a strong incentive to become (and stay) Super VIP, while not making it necessary for anyone.

Osborn

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #211 on: October 08, 2012, 07:54:53 AM »
Which is why i said it shouldn't be anything that's a real big deal. Nothing that can turn the tides in PVP or leave other players out like special zones.

You never, ever want to segregate the player base, no matter what. I think that the VIP-Only server was actually a terrible idea. Your biggest marketing force in a game that's F2P in some fashion or another is other players, seeing them have fun with some toy or another, or showing off some costume or another and having them go "Oh, cool, THAT looks fun! I want to do that!" and paying for it.

If they're in their own little dimension, then you've effectively reduced your in-game advertisement, and CoH certainly didn't need help having less advertisement for its features.

As somebody who's gone back and forth being both VIP and Premium often as money becomes tight or not (and ironically has probably spent more than just somebody who was VIP the whole time because of it), nothing defeats the spirit of F2P faster than if the players in the Premium game get stomped by VIP players.

People aren't stupid (at least when it comes to this), if they see game set up that to de facto compete you have to be VIP, even if Premium or Free options exist, they're going to see right through it, and it'll turn people off to the game very quickly. I mean, PvP was never a 'huge' part of this game, let's be honest, but why step on the few toes that do enjoy it?

I hope if this game is survived or succeeded by a sequel that whomever runs it understands the F2P model isn't supposed to try to 'trick' players into subscribing, rather it's meant to get people to spend who otherwise won't or can't subscribe long term.

Having goodies for VIP people is important, and having goodies for long-term or 'Super' VIP players (like if Super VIP get more points per month or extra costume slots or quicker travel to zones or other 'convenience of life' upgrades) isn't a bad idea, just don't don't tie the ability to realistically compete in the game to the 'Super' VIP model or set it up in a way where all the VIP or 'Super' VIP people have their own little parties elsewhere away from the rest. It will shoot the whole F2P model right in the foot.

Even though I had enough Reward Tokens to start to run out of things to even get aside from the repeatable objects, I think it was a bad idea to have a lot of the costume pieces be Reward Token only. I also thought it was a bad idea for them to be Veteran's Only when they came out. They're absolutely no reward for people who didn't happen to want to make a Boxing character, and it stymies anybody who wanted to make one but hasn't (or isn't going to play at all now they can't make the character they want). I think that it would had been better if those costume parts be available, even if in the Premium market.

I would had rather opened a Reward Token and gotten a bonus of PP to spend on the character costumes I wanted rather than "Hurray, now I can get Boxing Gloves that I'll never ever ever use!". It would had made me feel a lot more appreciated, and I suspect if some new player saw a Boxing character and was like "Oh, that's cool, I'm going to make something like that.. oh never mind, I can't." it'd be a good way to get them to lose interest in the game.

On the other hand, I wholly support the idea of things like /vault or /auctionhouse or the Reveal power being Reward Token rewards, as that's a good sort of convenience to reward your long term players with.

I would offer caution on what's offered via the store/VIP/Super VIP what have you.  I'd rather not have it turn into "Pay To Win" that some of the other MMO games have, such as DDO or LOTRO with what can be acquired.  In my opinion, the Free to Play model the MMO Fallen Earth offered was the best one.  For example, subscribing players could..."bypass" EXP debt if they "forget to duck" in a fight and get knocked out.

The other thing is this.  Let's say(especially in this economy), that you're going along as a subscriber, 15-20 clams a month, but you have a period of time where you're hard up on money, and you have to pass on subscribing to the "yellow banana sticker" super VIP status, the status where you get an exclusive costume, or nifty aura, what have you.  What happens then?  Do you rip away that costume/aura from the person until they get back on their feet?

My experience has been that characters with power sets that aren't unlocked get locked. Characters with costume pieces stay unlocked and so do the costume pieces and slot... as long as you don't try to edit that costume slot. At which point your costume piece would sort of vanish as if you had turned off the option to show pay-for costume pieces, and you have to either buy them or back out of the menu.

How about a free server transfer and a free rename token every month? :D

The former is 'no reward' for 90% of customers. I know I had a huge stack of sever transfers before Black Friday. Rename Tokens are more useful, but how many people actually just 'happen' to need them on hand?

Honestly sever transfers were effectively rename tokens anyways.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 08:14:46 AM by Osborn »

Knightslayer

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #212 on: October 08, 2012, 08:32:21 AM »
Which is why i said it shouldn't be anything that's a real big deal. Nothing that can turn the tides in PVP or leave other players out like special zones.
Like First Ward? Night Ward? Praetoria?
Or do you mean zones that would be Super-VIP only as opposed to the current VIP only ones?
I'm also not sure where the idea suddenly comes from that DDO is Pay to Win, unless the game changed drastically since I've been gone, on DDO you have to buy access to certain races and classes, and of course Adventure Packs (extra content).
Other than that they have the standard XP/Loot boosters, some crappy weapons and armor that you can also easily find in game, and of course cosmetic stuff.
Not to mention you can earn the store currency through playing the game, so technically you could get it all without paying a single dime.
I can't speak for LOTRO, since it never interested me enough to try, but I always assumed it was a similar system to DDO's.

Also, on DDO becoming VIP means you have access to EVERYTHING, all adventure packs, races, classes - no paying extra on top of your subscription each time a new power set comes out.

You never, ever want to segregate the player base, no matter what. I think that the VIP-Only server was actually a terrible idea. Your biggest marketing force in a game that's F2P in some fashion or another is other players, seeing them have fun with some toy or another, or showing off some costume or another and having them go "Oh, cool, THAT looks fun! I want to do that!" and paying for it.

If they're in their own little dimension, then you've effectively reduced your in-game advertisement, and CoH certainly didn't need help having less advertisement for its features.

As for the reason we have the Exalted server... don't look at the Devs, it was because some people in our community decided to get all elitist when the F2P option was announced and threatened to leave the game entirely rather than having to deal with the usual F2P riffraff. =P
If you feel inclined to do so, you can find plenty of posts on the topic in the official forums.
And I agree, it was a terrible idea - I can't even remember another MMO that has it... (though I think there is another one)
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 01:15:13 PM by Knightslayer »

Minotaur

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #213 on: October 08, 2012, 10:52:21 AM »
I almost hesitate mentioning this option, because I have the feeling that people will dismiss it out of hand, as was done previously.  However, another option for Super VIP might be an ongoing, permanent 2-3x increase in earned supergroup prestige / individual influence and yes, experience.

Before this suggestion gets crucified, consider the following.  I dearly love this game, the only game where I have no qualms going out and defeating bad guys with my 5 year old son.  He loved superheroes and still does.  We have created several superheroes together since 2006.  We were looking forward to when his three year old brother would be old enough in a couple of years to do the same thing.  Unless our efforts as a community succeed, this will not be an option for him, and that will be sad.

With three kids (two toddlers), a job where I work 60+ hours a week, volunteering at our church's food bank, and sitting on the board of a non-profit, finding the time even to go to the gym to remain healthy is difficult.  As such, I feel lucky if I can squeeze in 1-2 hours a week of personal time to play CoH.

The affection for this game in our family is very high.  Saying that however, I have never managed to be able to have the time to get a character to level 50, let alone gather enough prestige with my "supergroup" of one to build a cool base.  I rarely team since I don't want to disappoint other people with the small amounts of time I can spend online before dropping out to address real life events.  Because of the amount of time it takes to increase levels, I've missed out on the cool Oroborous thingy :-), seeing what the highest end powers do and look like, exploring the incarnate system, working through the Kheldian story lines, etc.  Since the announcement, I have spend additional time in game, but it will likely never be enough to experience all of the wonderful things that many other players have had years to enjoy.

Given all of that, if I could have the ability to hammer through a few levels a week on only 1-2 hours of play time per week, that would be spectacular.  I wouldn't mind paying an extra $20-$40 / month on top of the current VIP subscription to have that ability.  I imagine that there are others who would really enjoy a game with more story, more heart, than Farmville or Mobsters or some other browser based game, but who do not have much time to dedicate.

Just a thought respectfully given, so please consider it as yet another option that might help continue to justify the life of the "city" that is such a large part of all of our lives.

Best Regards,
Eric

This can be dealt with by getting the patrol XP right and putting something like the "experienced" power or XP boosters in the store. You might need a power that is account wide and says "triple XP on all my characters for the account's next n in-game hours". It doesn't need to be a super VIP thing. Basically you pay extra cash, get the same result, but it doesn't require super VIP status. Prestige can be handled in similar fashion.

Possible benefits for super VIP:

Ability to create characters at any level up to 25.
More MA arcs, you gain an extra every 3 months of super VIP.
2 free renames or transfers per month of super VIP.
A free respec per month.
Bonus on character storage (enhs/recipes/salvage etc) while subscribed as super VIP (if you reduce the sub, it's treated like the salvage storage was done, you don't lose the stuff, but when you take it out, you can't replace it).
If personal bases are implemented, some bonuses to that.
Bonus store points.
If there is an equivalent to paragon rewards, each month's super VIP subscription counts as 1.5 or 2 months of VIP.




Segev

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #214 on: October 08, 2012, 12:27:06 PM »
Actually, I think allowing store options to buy "bonus in-game resource" features, which could be open to VIPs as well as to people who want to just buy that perk, is a pretty good idea. It's not "pay to win" as long as the "normal" progression is not so slow as to be useless to even hardcore players. It's just a convenience for those who don't enjoy the low levels or who can't play often enough for the "normal" progression to ever get them anywhere.

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #215 on: October 08, 2012, 01:16:49 PM »
Perhaps if we have a reward for interacting with ads that is non-in-game oriented, as well. e.g., if people want subscriptions but can't afford them, maybe actively interacting with ads can provide a small discount based on the number interacted with. After all, if the complaint is that they can't afford a subscription, the ads might be an avenue for them to directly help themselves out AND to get perks in-game.

Sponsored ads might even include a special discount coupon that, when used, can be activated for an additional discount to play the game. You were going to buy a case of coke for the week anyway; why not use a coupon to get $1 off AND to get $1 off a monthly subscription after you've bought it?

I think this is a very good idea and should be submitted to NCSoft.

They get revenue from Coca-Cola AND they get a customer who can continue paying them. Seems win-win?

And for those customers who do NOT want to see ads while missions load, zones move, etc...they can pay an additional $x.xx per month to NOT see them.

As for me... whether I see the entrance to a Council base or an ad for Lay's potato chips, I could care less. *shrug*

Segev

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #216 on: October 08, 2012, 01:46:08 PM »
I'm actually somewhat against loading screen ads that are crass, game-immersion-breaking ones. Were I in charge of marketing, I would work with our sponsors who wanted such ads to make them be in-game-appropriate things. Product placement in that Council Entrance image, for instance. Or maybe even have a few Signature Characters who, like Booster Gold or the Flash, are more than happy to be "sell-outs" and will feature in cheesy campaigns that appear on billboards and on loading screens.

Make them fun, funny, and reward the players who see them with a sense of Easter egg hunting when they see a new one.

dwturducken

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #217 on: October 08, 2012, 01:53:59 PM »
A lot of discussion on in game ads has gone on in a thread that may have fallen to page three, by now, and it covers a VIP model and a nonVIP model.  The more discussion, here, about "super VIP," the more I begin to doubt the wisdom.  I'm not staking a vote against it, because there are a lot of good ideas being tossed around for it. A good point was the VIP server, though.  The reality of the "F2P riffraff" never seemed to be a problem, in my experience. If others here saw it, I'm willing to recant this, but I would vote against a VIP server, or, worse, a "superVIP" server. I haven't seen any suggestions for that, just saying.

And, while these are all good ideas, they should also be shared over at Plan Z. If the primary efforts here still fail, then these things are all good considerations for that effort. I'm actually headed there now, to see if someone's already beaten me to it, which usually happens. :)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Segev

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #218 on: October 08, 2012, 02:01:42 PM »
"Super VIP" would be a separate thing that requires already having a VIP subscription, I think. You can obviously sign up for both simultaneously, and you can add "Super" later on. It has a premium "extra" subscriber fee attached, and the system wouldn't allow you to accidentally buy more months of "Super VIP" than you had already signed up for "VIP."

Since we're currently talking an extra $5/month to bring it to $20/month for the whole package, I'd just set the pricing at 1/3 the pricing of the equivalent time subscription for regular VIP.

As an additional promotion, in recognition of the very human desire to synch these up even if they buy a six-month VIP subscription and, a month later, decide they really want Super VIP to go with it, we can offer "upgrade" packages that allow a buy-in of the next-duration-up (so a 3 month subscription can be upgraded to a 6 month sub) and pro-rate the Super VIP addition. If they're already at the max. non-lifetime duration, it instead is a service wherein we simply allow them to buy an extra duration of that subscription and pro-rate the remainder of this one.

Why only pro-rate if they're extending the subscription? Because we don't want people buying a six month sub and deciding they want Super VIP for the last month and trying to pro-rate it to the six-month rate when they're planning to cancel after this six month period is over.


Regarding "VIP-only" server and "Super VIP-only" servers...no. There will be VIP-only areas (heck, some sort of "VIP lounge" is not unreasonable), if only because they have VIP-only content, but Super-VIP shouldn't have exclusive content, just more convenience gameplay perks.

I know STO already has at least two levels of paid subscription, so this model isn't unworkable.

We cannot, however, allow a snobbish "F2P riffraff" attitude to develop by segregating the paid players from the free players. We want this to be an open community.

Knightslayer

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Re: A response to NCsoft
« Reply #219 on: October 08, 2012, 02:30:59 PM »
I'm honestly not a fan of the whole "Super-VIP" thing, I think it will always create the appearance of "I'm not getting the full experience unless I put down 20$", which once again brings us to "Why not give our money to the competition where I DO get the full experience for 15$?".
People who -want- to support the game won't need a special subscription to do so, that's what the whole Paragon Store is for.