A response to NCsoft

[Atlantea]

I did think about it, and I got as far as finding a contact page for him, and no further. Hope this helps.

http://richardgarriott.com/contact/

Yes, I googled. I am both useful AND technologically awesome.

You know... there's a phone number for his agents there. 

Hmm...

Would anyone think it's a bad idea if I literally called them up and just asked if Mr. Garriott is aware of the situation in regards to City of Heroes? And if he isn't - would he (or his staff) mind taking a look at these message boards when he has some spare time? Should I mention that we've thought of contacting him? And why?

If I did - I would stress that the group is only talking about things and has no firm ideas other than that we'd love it if he simply lent his voice in assistance to our cause.

Emails letters are one thing - but talking to someone - anyone - on a personal level sometimes lends interesting results. And I've worked in tech support and I have a polite, effective technique of talking to people over the phone.

(EDIT:  Or maybe that's something better left to TonyV our spokesman?)

[Gothica]

Alright. If we're going a bit more aggressively negative, then we have VV's letter in another thread which we should make sure has a sort of "time bomb leak" built in so they're aware it will get published in, say, a major Seoul or national S. Korean newspaper as a full-page ad.

The suggestion of contacting Richart Garriott in conjunction with the idea of buying enough stock to "make ourselves heard" made in another thread could have some traction, but those who participated in THAT action would have to be willing to risk the stock plummeting in value and even gaining a 1% voting bloc would still get ignored. Though admittedly, a unified 1% voting bloc would be enough that other shareholders might at least pay attention. (I should note that, using some very rough guestimates and a few numbers I had available, it would cost 20,000 people an average of $3,800 or $7,600 each to obtain that 1% share, which I'd bet most of the 20,000 petitioners can't afford.)

But it's something to consider.

Regarding the first point: What about crowdsourcing full-page ads in major US and Korean pubs? Enough bang for the buck?

Regarding the second (and feel free to steer me to the appropriate thread for this), do we have (or could we get) the corporate bylaws in order to find out what it takes to force the calling of a shareholders' meeting?

[Knightslayer]

*DING*

*/em Lightbulb!* (yes - again)

Would it help in contacting Richard Garriott if we got our own wordsmith Mercedes Lackey to lend her talents putting together an intro letter to him? TonyV is no slouch in that department AT ALL, in fact he's fantastic! But hey - a little celebrity never hurts either!

(Maybe if we're lucky he or some of his family or friens have read her books?)

Considering he is Lord British, I'd say he's more than likely into Fantasy, which means there's a good chance he's a fan or at least familiar with her work.

[TonyV]

Regarding the first point: What about crowdsourcing full-page ads in major US and Korean pubs? Enough bang for the buck?

I actually intend to do this.  Not so much in U.S. papers, because we're all so spread out, but definitely Seoul and possibly Tokyo.

Regarding the second (and feel free to steer me to the appropriate thread for this), do we have (or could we get) the corporate bylaws in order to find out what it takes to force the calling of a shareholders' meeting?

I've been researching this.  I don't know that they actually hold shareholder meetings.  Keep in mind that NCsoft is a Korean company, so business laws and public company obligations will vary a bit from what we're used to.  I did however find a site that lists all disclosures made by public companies in Korea, including exercising of stock options (스톡옵션행사).  I've also been reading news articles on the executives and investors.  I'm still digging further to see what rocks I can turn over on NCsoft.  I want to know as much as I can about what makes that company tick, and if there are others here who are more knowledgeable and experienced in the fields of finance and accounting, I encourage you to do the same.

[Victoria Victrix]

Accounting makes my head explode.   

But tell me what kind of letter you want written...I can do that. 

[DrakeGrimm]

You'll have my pen.


...VV wields it better, but I've gotten a few lucky critical hits in my day!

[WanderingAries]

If it helps, from what little I recall of the Marketing for CoH, I do not believe that NCSoft persued the type of full marketing of CoH during the past five years that Cryptic did initially. Obviously they had to back then because otherwise How were you going to sell the bloody thing. I don't remember which I played first GW or CoH, but I do remember seeing adverts in atleast game stores back then. So from my point of view, NCSoft sewed the seeds of today's troubles when they didn't persue appropriate marketing from the start.

IDK why they came to mind, but the moment you talked about Korean contacts I got the names George Takei and Walter Koenig popped in there. I haven't a clue how they could help or WTF they came to mind, but Maybe they know somebody we don't (yet). And yes, I know they're not Korean let alone not both Asian. :-p

[Olantern]

I've been researching this.  I don't know that they actually hold shareholder meetings.  Keep in mind that NCsoft is a Korean company, so business laws and public company obligations will vary a bit from what we're used to.  I did however find a site that lists all disclosures made by public companies in Korea, including exercising of stock options (스톡옵션행사).  I've also been reading news articles on the executives and investors.  I'm still digging further to see what rocks I can turn over on NCsoft.  I want to know as much as I can about what makes that company tick, and if there are others here who are more knowledgeable and experienced in the fields of finance and accounting, I encourage you to do the same.

Based on my (admittedly fairly limited) acquaintance with U.S. corporate law, I'm not sure that forcing a shareholders' meeting would benefit us even if we could do it.

In a corporation, stockholders are the ones ultimately funding the business.  However, their role in governing the corporation is relatively limited, and their role in ordinary business decisions, such as what product lines to sell and which to discontinue, is even more limited.  Stockholders' real power is their ability to vote on who sits on the corporation's board of directors, who in turn police and are policed by the corporation's executives.  (For those familiar with the U.S. political system, the stockholders are like the ordinary voters, the board is a bit like Congress, and the executives are like the President and the rest of the executive branch.)  Stockholders sometimes attempt to get more substantive issues on corporate ballots, but even those often do not make it to a shareholder vote, and those that do tend to be broad policy statements (like "be more environmentally friendly") rather than specific directions to the board or executives ("do X thing").

There are also peculiarities involving different classes of stock: some have voting rights, some don't, etc.  These are far beyond the scope of the kinds of discussions that can work on these fora and are best explained by corporate law specialists, anyway.

I have absolutely no knowledge of how Korean law differs from the scheme I just discussed.

All that said, knowing more about NCSoft's corporate structure and current situation can only help our efforts here.

[Moonfyire101]

I actually intend to do this.  Not so much in U.S. papers, because we're all so spread out, but definitely Seoul and possibly Tokyo.

I've been researching this.  I don't know that they actually hold shareholder meetings.  Keep in mind that NCsoft is a Korean company, so business laws and public company obligations will vary a bit from what we're used to.  I did however find a site that lists all disclosures made by public companies in Korea, including exercising of stock options (스톡옵션행사).  I've also been reading news articles on the executives and investors.  I'm still digging further to see what rocks I can turn over on NCsoft.  I want to know as much as I can about what makes that company tick, and if there are others here who are more knowledgeable and experienced in the fields of finance and accounting, I encourage you to do the same.

I think that adds in Seoul and Tokyo are a great idea...Are you collecting money to get started? I can chip in like 20. I'll try an get more. Also if you need some written in Japanese i think i can arrange that or you can talk to Sayuri Hayashi yourself on fb. She reads and writes japanese and is a CoH player.

[MishaFox]

I think our biggest problem is that NCSoft itself doesn't know what to do. We need to give them the push in the right direction.

[Segev]

There is something going on in the heads of NCSoft's leadership. I just can't get a close enough look at the right angle to figure out what, precisely, that is. I am going to keep working on it, but...

Well. I'm not yet the influential voice I hope one day to be in industry. (Would that I were personally wealthy enough to simply buy out NCSoft, pluck CoH from their grasp and set it under management who understands it, and then let the company pull itself back together again.

...did I just say "would that I were Bain Capital?")


(This is a joke; not actually asking for responses to the question that could turn political, here.)

[frostcoh]

I actually intend to do this.  Not so much in U.S. papers, because we're all so spread out, but definitely Seoul and possibly Tokyo.

I've been researching this.  I don't know that they actually hold shareholder meetings.  Keep in mind that NCsoft is a Korean company, so business laws and public company obligations will vary a bit from what we're used to.  I did however find a site that lists all disclosures made by public companies in Korea, including exercising of stock options (스톡옵션행사).  I've also been reading news articles on the executives and investors.  I'm still digging further to see what rocks I can turn over on NCsoft.  I want to know as much as I can about what makes that company tick, and if there are others here who are more knowledgeable and experienced in the fields of finance and accounting, I encourage you to do the same.

What can we do, how can we donate, how can we get this ball rolling?

[Osborn]

What can we do, how can we donate, how can we get this ball rolling?

Tony will probably set up a call to action when donations are needed, which will be after he actually figures out what he can do, and if it has a chance to work.

Until then we should conserve our money because if we crowd fund something I doubt we'll get more than 2 shots. He'll let us know when that happens.

[Hydrith]

Looking at the from a game perspective, I'd like to think that we're walking an interesting path right now.

The talk up until now on most of the forums has been polite, nonviolent (non-abrasive) statements against NCSoft.  Trying to raise the attention of the gaming community to make a change.  I'm a lurker, and have been watching the advancement the whole time, silently cheering you guys on.  You are Heroes.

Now I see things becoming a bit more terse, and maybe, just a bit more abrasive towards NCSoft's reputation and persona.  Willingness to push the envelope just a bit to try and force a more direct action out of the company seems like a step back to some, but something I cheer about, since the first attempt didn't work.  Some would say you're starting to walk towards the redside...I prefer to think that you're not there yet, that you've instead become Vigilantes.  Sometimes being politic and sensible just doesn't work.

Personally, I hope that the next statement NCSoft makes isn't the one that sends the community into a frenzy (i.e. Fuck you, we're not going to give up the IP), and force many players over to the redside, as Villains.  Walking the path of the Vigilante seems most correct, in my honest (and rather doubtful) opinion.  The part of the Hero has been cast, but the system isn't changing.  It's time to take matters into our most capable hands.

You can still be a Hero and be a Vigilante

((Okay, I'm done with my game term usage, please return to your statements.))

[Floride]

I aproached this like a lateral thinking problem (you know, those riddles where you have to answer 'how did it happen'), because so much about this doesn't make sense. Like NC saying 'sunsetting' and 'world's first and best MMO' in the same sentence. And not giving those effected a reason for killing a game that makes money and actually funds their other projects.

The only way I could answer 'how'd it happen' was: A third party is forcing them to shut it down thru legal channels and NC is forbidden to discuss it. Then at least some of what they've said starts to make sense.

Throughout the 8+ years the game has been around, only 1 third party company ever tried to get the game taken offline and killed. Is it possible that they may have finally succeeded, seeing as they have their own MMO coming out and they initially tried to get CoX shut down due to copyright infringement?

Please, i beg of you, tell me this scenario could not be possible. But it's the only way I've found to explain it.

(FYI - I'm no lawyer and understand very little about international business. Just adding my 2-cents  )

[lurker13]

I am tempted to think this shutdown is the result of one (or both) of two things:
A) The higher-ups overseas simply don't care for a super-hero based MMO deeply rooted in US culture.  Instead they want an Asian WoW clone or a focus on mobile gaming.
B) As Floride suggested, another (most likely DC or perhaps Marvel) party is threatening (another) suit as to run this competitor out of business.  They have made such attempts in the past when they DIDN'T have a game of their own in play, so this certainly seems feasible now.

Regardless of the reason, this has hurt NCSoft from a mind-share preservative and economic consequences are sure to follow.

Having said all that I think given the initiative shown by the members of this board I feel we should focus on what actions WE can do to preserve the game as opposed to simply trying/hoping to convince NCSoft do do something.   I understand as owners of the property they hold all the cards but at the end of the day one axiom rules...money talks.  To that end if NCSoft is unwilling to find a buyer then we should make some attempt do it for them.  I feel if they can a) make even a modest financial gain, and b) save face and reputation, they will take a deal.  To that end here are some potential buyers i feel would be worth reaching out to:

1.  Dark Horse Comics - I really don't know that they have the capital but I can't help but think this would be a fantastic way to get their characters better exposure as well as provide an avenue of introduction new ones.  (to be honest I am still scratching my head as to why DC/Marvel didn't take a "if you can't beat them join them" approach...but that's air through the engine at this point)

2. Joss Wheaton/Stan Lee -  These boys definitely have or could raise the capital and i am *told* they are kinda into super-heroes.  I cannot think of better custodians for a virtual world of super-heroes. 

So there it is.  If anyone knows of how we can properly and effectively pitch to these parties, please speak up.  As others have said in desperate times "Let's roll!"

---
Disclaimer: 
- If this idea or something like it has already been suggested my apologies for the duplication.
- If this is not the proper portion of the board to post this line of thought, please help me route it correctly.

[Dr Shadow]

Don't know if it's relevant or not but there is a Marvel game going into beta testing.
https://marvelheroes.com/

So after some internet research I've found a line I Will keep following..It's still not conclusive and maybe someone out there will have better research skills than I.

New Marvel game is owned by Gazillion Games.
Gazillion Games purchased Net Devil from NCSoft.

Not saying this is the reason, but I will follow it.

[nataliaofvirtues]

Absolutely wonderful Tony. You continue to inspire us all. I will continue doing all I can (which is limited to letters, e-mails and such). I have been talking to the managers of the local gamestops about putting flyers in their stores. And I have some flyers out in the gaming department of the local college. Let me know if I can do anything else to help.

And I would like to thank TonyV and everyone else that is helping to Save Our City of Heroes community. No matter how great or small the efforts are, we are all still a "City of Heroes".

[Valjean]

.....
The only way I could answer 'how'd it happen' was: A third party is forcing them to shut it down thru legal channels and NC is forbidden to discuss it. Then at least some of what they've said starts to make sense.

Throughout the 8+ years the game has been around, only 1 third party company ever tried to get the game taken offline and killed. Is it possible that they may have finally succeeded, seeing as they have their own MMO coming out and they initially tried to get CoX shut down due to copyright infringement?

Please, i beg of you, tell me this scenario could not be possible. But it's the only way I've found to explain it.

.....

This scenario is possible, but it's not very likely. A devious action like that, particularly by an American company, would be something that would have been leaked by now. Also, it's unlikely that a company would wait 5+ years to resume legal action again. It's more likely that they'd be working on it constantly, such as Apple vs Samsung. The goal is to exhaust the competitor into bankruptcy with non-stop legal pressure.

[MishaFox]

A Semi-unpleasant idea to put forward to NCSoft - Keeping the game going but at a lower level - meaning to sacrifice some servers. Closing some 2 or 3 servers to preserve the rest.