Author Topic: State of the Titan  (Read 106853 times)

Viking

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #140 on: September 25, 2012, 06:38:10 PM »
As far as what they've told me, no I haven't even heard as much as "Not interested, go away." Still working.

Regarding bidding wars or supporting Paragon, obviously I can't say much here, but let me say what I can as simply as possible so as not to be misconstrued:

a) I have no intention of getting into a bidding war with Paragon or anyone else. For one thing it's not good for the game, for another, I can't afford it.

b) Money is really complicated. Please don't ask about it.

b) If Paragon* is in closed negotiations with NCSoft, they may not be allowed to talk to me, and I don't want to corner them. I also don't know what they need. However, I'm more than happy to work out an agreement between whatever is left of Paragon and my own group. I don't presently have any way of contacting them, since all the email addresses *I* had for them ended in @paragon.com - and they're not checking those anymore for some reason. 

*Paragon is, as I am using it here, the term for Brian and whatever's left of the management group that's currently in whatever negotiations that are happening with NCSoft. Is that the term in use generally?

Damn that is a really bummer, even though I understand it.

Shadowe

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #141 on: September 25, 2012, 06:57:57 PM »
Perhaps try hitting up Melissa Bianco or Matt Miller on Twitter by private message and asking if they have any contact details they can pass along?
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Tanglefoe

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #142 on: September 25, 2012, 09:57:42 PM »
As far as what they've told me, no I haven't even heard as much as "Not interested, go away." Still working.

Regarding bidding wars or supporting Paragon, obviously I can't say much here, but let me say what I can as simply as possible so as not to be misconstrued:

a) I have no intention of getting into a bidding war with Paragon or anyone else. For one thing it's not good for the game, for another, I can't afford it.

b) Money is really complicated. Please don't ask about it.

b) If Paragon* is in closed negotiations with NCSoft, they may not be allowed to talk to me, and I don't want to corner them. I also don't know what they need. However, I'm more than happy to work out an agreement between whatever is left of Paragon and my own group. I don't presently have any way of contacting them, since all the email addresses *I* had for them ended in @paragon.com - and they're not checking those anymore for some reason.  (Edit: That "for some reason" is ever so gentle sarcasm.)

*Paragon is, as I am using it here, the term for Brian and whatever's left of the management group that's currently in whatever negotiations that are happening with NCSoft. Is that the term in use generally?

Edit, about 2 hours later: I should really check my messages before posting.

 :o

DrakeGrimm

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #143 on: September 25, 2012, 10:08:56 PM »
I, too, am curious. o.o;
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Coolio_Wolfus

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #144 on: September 25, 2012, 11:14:02 PM »
« Last Edit: September 25, 2012, 11:25:55 PM by Coolio_Wolfus »

Victoria Victrix

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #145 on: September 25, 2012, 11:21:54 PM »
Don't know where to post this or if it's the wrong section someone will move it but:

1. Please keep the media spreadsheet updated.

2. I think I've found a potential loophole...

Do we have that quote anywhere on the NCSoft COH pages anyone can screenshot or save the page of, as I feel it's definitely something we could use.



Guessing NCSoft approved that advertising...  ;)

Don't want to rain on your idea, however people who ARE lawyers have already said NCSoft cannot be held to "play free forever" as stating "we will keep the game running forever."  Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Coolio_Wolfus

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #146 on: September 25, 2012, 11:28:42 PM »
Don't want to rain on your idea, however people who ARE lawyers have already said NCSoft cannot be held to "play free forever" as stating "we will keep the game running forever."  Sorry, but that dog won't hunt.

I understand but...
Look at that pic again.

Play for Free (Stop)
Forever (Stop)

Not "Play for free, forever."

"Forever." is marked as it's own sentence imho.

Just my 2 inf.

Stormy Weathermaker

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #147 on: September 25, 2012, 11:51:30 PM »

Victoria Victrix

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #148 on: September 25, 2012, 11:53:50 PM »
I understand but...
Look at that pic again.

Play for Free (Stop)
Forever (Stop)

Not "Play for free, forever."

"Forever." is marked as it's own sentence imho.

Just my 2 inf.

That dog still won't hunt.

Legally, this is equivalent to a "lifetime warrantee"

I can get a lifetime warrantee on a refrigerator, but if the company goes out of business, there's no one to honor that that warrantee and I'm out of luck.

I can play free "forever" does not mean the game will exist forever.  It means I can play free as long as the game exists.

However you are perfectly free to spend several thousands of dollars on lawyers finding that out.  Anyone can sue anyone for anything in this country and there are unscrupulous lawyers who will be happy to take your money and tell you that you have a case.  The couple of honest lawyers (start my heart) who populate this board are telling everyone this tactic will not work. 

Go ahead and sue.  I've actually been involved in a legitimate case against my insurance company.  Be prepared to watch every spare cent and spare bit of time you have sucked down into a black hole that is the legal accounting office, watch their legal counsel drag your reputation through the dirt, and in the end you will get nothing.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

DrakeGrimm

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #149 on: September 26, 2012, 12:04:04 AM »
That dog still won't hunt.

Legally, this is equivalent to a "lifetime warrantee"

I can get a lifetime warrantee on a refrigerator, but if the company goes out of business, there's no one to honor that that warrantee and I'm out of luck.

I can play free "forever" does not mean the game will exist forever.  It means I can play free as long as the game exists.

However you are perfectly free to spend several thousands of dollars on lawyers finding that out.  Anyone can sue anyone for anything in this country and there are unscrupulous lawyers who will be happy to take your money and tell you that you have a case.  The couple of honest lawyers (start my heart) who populate this board are telling everyone this tactic will not work. 

Go ahead and sue.  I've actually been involved in a legitimate case against my insurance company.  Be prepared to watch every spare cent and spare bit of time you have sucked down into a black hole that is the legal accounting office, watch their legal counsel drag your reputation through the dirt, and in the end you will get nothing.

YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR! >.>
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV

downix

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #150 on: September 26, 2012, 12:04:51 AM »
YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR! >.>
They do need a "like" button here....

Victoria Victrix

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #151 on: September 26, 2012, 12:16:21 AM »
Awww now I didn't mean it in a nasty sense...

Let me short form what happened in my own legal case.

We had an accidental fire in my husband's studio.  It occurred mere minutes after we returned from a long trip.  Everyone agreed it was an accident.  The investigator.  The fire department.  The evidence.

My insurance company then attempted to say it was arson, based on the fact that there were volatile chemicals and oil in the carpet.  (IT WAS AN ART STUDIO!  ARTISTS USE VOLATILE CHEMICALS AND OIL!  AND THEY SPILL A LOT!)  Completely ignoring the fact that their own investigator found it was started by an electrical short.

We had to sue.  A year later, increasing depression (I was popping 3 prozac a day, my husband was popping 4), being told Larry's damaged drawings and paintings were "worth nothing", and having had the insurance companies lawyers read the gay "sex scenes" from the Herald-Mage books into the pre-trial record (I am not making this up.  And I had to answer yes or no to whether I wrote them--it was obvious they were going to actually use these scenes as an attempt to prejudice a rural Oklahoma jury against us) and bring up every book or story I ever wrote with "Fire" "Flame" or "Burn" in the title as evidence that I was a pyro (I am not making that up either) we went into arbitration.  We ended up getting back about half of what we had spent on rebuilding the studio and cleaning and saving what we could.  Which means, essentially, we were now deeply in a financial hole, as well as a psychiatric hole.

This was the outcome with a solid case.  This is why I would only advocate a class action suit where there was some kind of evidence that we could win...the "no refunds" might, maybe, barely, have had a chance, and NCSoft took care of that by offering refunds.  So right now, I stand with the legal eagles in saying "For Godssake don't go there."
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Hyperstrike

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #152 on: September 26, 2012, 12:38:46 AM »

Quote
We had to sue.  A year later, increasing depression (I was popping 3 prozac a day, my husband was popping 4), being told Larry's damaged drawings and paintings were "worth nothing", and having had the insurance companies lawyers read the gay "sex scenes" from the Herald-Mage books into the pre-trial record (I am not making this up.  And I had to answer yes or no to whether I wrote them--it was obvious they were going to actually use these scenes as an attempt to prejudice a rural Oklahoma jury against us) and bring up every book or story I ever wrote with "Fire" "Flame" or "Burn" in the title as evidence that I was a pyro (I am not making that up either) we went into arbitration.  We ended up getting back about half of what we had spent on rebuilding the studio and cleaning and saving what we could.  Which means, essentially, we were now deeply in a financial hole, as well as a psychiatric hole.

Sweet baba-la-hummala!  They must have been flopping around like a frog on a hot plate over "Burning Brightly".

Even hating "people" the way I do sometimes, it STILL amazes me the lengths schysters and idiots go to sometimes.

TimtheEnchanter

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #153 on: September 26, 2012, 01:29:37 AM »
That should've been a mistrial the moment they brought the sex books into it.

Stormy Weathermaker

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #154 on: September 26, 2012, 01:42:25 AM »
That dog still won't hunt.

Legally, this is equivalent to a "lifetime warrantee"

I can get a lifetime warrantee on a refrigerator, but if the company goes out of business, there's no one to honor that that warrantee and I'm out of luck.

I can play free "forever" does not mean the game will exist forever.  It means I can play free as long as the game exists.

However you are perfectly free to spend several thousands of dollars on lawyers finding that out.  Anyone can sue anyone for anything in this country and there are unscrupulous lawyers who will be happy to take your money and tell you that you have a case.  The couple of honest lawyers (start my heart) who populate this board are telling everyone this tactic will not work. 

Go ahead and sue.  I've actually been involved in a legitimate case against my insurance company.  Be prepared to watch every spare cent and spare bit of time you have sucked down into a black hole that is the legal accounting office, watch their legal counsel drag your reputation through the dirt, and in the end you will get nothing.

Oh, I understood what you meant VV and I agree with you completely. I have no interest in having a lawyer suck up all my $$ or my time to tell me what I already know.   I was just merely showing how it was stated on the "official web site" is all.  Can't play through NCSoft servers if they are flipping the switch on 11/30. 

YOU GET NOTHING! YOU LOSE! GOOD DAY, SIR! >.>
  WILLY WONKA!!!!! ;D

Yikes  VV! Sounds like you've had an extremely rough year  :-[  I hope everything is better for you now :)

Victoria Victrix

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #155 on: September 26, 2012, 01:50:00 AM »
That should've been a mistrial the moment they brought the sex books into it.

Here's how it would have gone.

Defending Insurance Attorney:  <Reads the scene>  Did you write that?
My Attorney: Objection! This is not relevant to the case!
Judge: Objection sustained.  The Jury will disregard that reading.
Defending Insurance Attorney: <smirks, and reads another>

Now....you tell me HOW you get a rural Oklahoma jury to "disregard" a gay "sex" scene (there wasn't much "sex" in it, but it sure was gay) after one has been read to them?  In their minds I have now gone from "their neighbor being screwed over by the big insurance company" to "that freaky woman who is definitely a hippie and a pinko and probably a pedophile."

As long as ANYTHING is put into the record during the pretrial "discovery" process it can and will be used in the trial.  And regardless of whether the jury is told to disregard it, once the information is in their heads, you can't take it out again.

This is why I warn people about getting into a lawsuit with a big company, because they have slimeballs who will do nothing for weeks at a time but dig up anything and everything they can to discredit you as a person and read it into the court record during discovery.  That's even easier now that people post things online.  And once on the internet, thanks to the Wayback Machine, it is there forever.

This is why we went to arbitration, instead of to trial.  MAYBE we could have won big against them, but....versus at least getting something back.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Olantern

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #156 on: September 26, 2012, 02:11:26 AM »
Guess I do have to make that post about litigation ... though VV's story ought to be enough on its own.

For the moment, I'll just say that suing based on something like this will take you to a place you don't want to go.  I think it's also drawing this thread a bit off-topic.

Victoria Victrix

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #157 on: September 26, 2012, 02:16:48 AM »
Back ON topic, Brian told me he hoped to have some news a little after midweek.  Please note he said HOPED, so this is not a promise of anything.
I will go down with this ship.  I won't put my hands up in surrender.  There will be no white flag above my door.  I'm in love, and always will be.  Dido

Segev

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #158 on: September 26, 2012, 02:18:59 AM »
It may be superfluous, but nonetheless, I wish him luck.

Still waiting to hear back from my own contacts.

DrakeGrimm

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Re: State of the Titan
« Reply #159 on: September 26, 2012, 03:59:09 AM »
* DrakeGrimm sings "Uprising" by Muse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog
We are the crazy ones, the mavericks, the dreamers, the forgotten sons. We color outside the lines for fun. We are the crazy ones! - "The Crazy Ones," Stellar Revival

"We put ourselves in "the attitude of heroes"--and we all became a little more heroic." - VV