Author Topic: NCSoft Stockwatch  (Read 714684 times)

Golden Girl

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #780 on: December 11, 2012, 07:28:05 PM »
Would you like dedicated players of other NCsoft games to lose access to their games just like we did lose access to City of Heroes because, well, we don't have access to City of Heroes anymore? Or am I missing a nuance here?

They can help us out.
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Little Green Frog

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #781 on: December 11, 2012, 07:29:49 PM »
They can help us out.

After we spoil their fun? Hardly likely. Of course if I'm reading what you're saying right, because frankly it's really hard to communicate this way.

dwturducken

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #782 on: December 11, 2012, 07:34:56 PM »
Going back to Sekoia's comment, is "sock puppet' another substitution? I'm thinking of compiling them for a drinking game.

(Also, I hope it's not rhyming slang, cuz, DA-YUM! I know tempers run a little high, but I've never seen anyone so moved as to use that word!)
I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

Feycat

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #783 on: December 11, 2012, 07:36:03 PM »
They can help us out.

They can help you how? In what way? Before or after you "target" their game?

I mean, do you realize what you're representing here? You've gone total Crusader.

What constitutes "victory" for you that involves targetting other MMOs?

Sekoia

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #784 on: December 11, 2012, 07:42:27 PM »
Going back to Sekoia's comment, is "sock puppet' another substitution?

Nope: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)

dwturducken

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I wouldn't use the word "replace," but there's no word for "take over for you and make everything better almost immediately," so we just say "replace."

NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #786 on: December 11, 2012, 08:14:05 PM »
i wouldnt want any of the other games shut down either, but under ncsoft its only a matter of time until they find the new "shiny" and decide to cut their other slack and pull out of the NA/EU market entirely (which means aion will prolly be their next target)

i want ncsoft to release coh,  and if they go down before that happens, i think that would be due entirely to ncsofts bad business decision making

most of what we are doing is trying to inform poeple whats going on, and get them to ask the same questions we are (specifically WHY the game was shut down when it was still profitable and stable)

ncsoft is coming under media scrutiny and they have barely responded to any of it, and its not cause they dont care, its cause they are under immense pressure and saying the wrong  thing could hurt them worse than what they already done

basically they already shot themselves in the foot, but are they gonna let it get infected and have to amputate or patch it up so it heals

Kaiser Tarantula

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #787 on: December 11, 2012, 08:19:57 PM »
Guys, while we've been talking, NCsoft has risen back to 157k won.  over the weekend between Dec. 7th and Dec. 10th, they somehow rose from 145k to 152k.

I'm not happy about this development.

chasearcanum

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #788 on: December 11, 2012, 08:27:55 PM »
After we spoil their fun? Hardly likely. Of course if I'm reading what you're saying right, because frankly it's really hard to communicate this way.

Frog,  I don't think any of us are looking to totally "shut down" ncsoft, but:

1) The business process that led to the CoH closure already puts every player at every NCSoft MMO at risk. NCSoft lacks the stability and customer-centric posture that is necessary to reliably deliver a service, and hosting the game is essentially a service.  NCSoft shut down a game that reliably made 24-26% of their NA/European sales-- one that made 40% of the sales in those regions in the quarter immediately preceding the announcement.  In that light, there is NO certainty or stability for any of their products.

2) We want this behavior to change.  Becoming more customer-centric means that when THEIR interests in a product have diminished, they seek a resolution that meets the USERS' best interests.  For us, that means finding a new home for CoH.  For those that come after us, it could mean spinning off titles to independents self-sufficient entities, selling titles, or publicly putting games into a very gradual "sunsetting" where the servers remain operational, but new content development becomes minimal until the community organically departs. 

3) To influence this change, though, we have carrots and sticks... and at this stage we're left with more sticks. NCSoft  apparently thinks that people don't care about these things, they won't do anything.  They'll "weather the storm," stick to their old ways, and continue to be a risk to players of their still-existing titles.  If NCSoft's sales falters, they may see that CUSTOMERS DO CARE about this, and realize that a big public reversal in policy may be to their strategic advantage.  If their investors become uncertain, then they'll realize that their investors may care and likewise seek to make changes.  The bigger and broader our impact the more likely they'll have to reconsider their processes. 

4) We still have a few carrots left, though.  The Disney initiative is one of them.  What better way for NCSoft to realize the folly of shutting down and destroying a revenue stream than Disney giving them a lump of cash for something they were ready to turn off forever?  What better way to make them reconsider other shutdown efforts?

Our goal isn't to hurt them.  Our goal is to bring about a change that benefits all gamers- CoH'ers, players of other NCSoft titles, and even other publishers' titles.  Developers learn from one another, and many will be looking at the practices, policies, and fallout put on display here.

So, please don't think that most of us just want to 'hurt NCSoft any way we can."  There's a purpose to the pain, and it does intend to benefit everyone.

However, PLEASE KEEP US HONEST here.  Many of us are hurting after the shutdown. Hurt people sometimes lash out irrationally, and I'm sure most of us have fallen into that mindset at one time or another. Some people here do focus only on the pain and lose sight of the bigger goal.  We need voices of moderation to keep that in check.





Illusionss

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #789 on: December 11, 2012, 08:28:23 PM »
After we spoil their fun? Hardly likely. Of course if I'm reading what you're saying right, because frankly it's really hard to communicate this way.

As if we players could somehow spoil the fun for people playing other NCStupid games. Why would we even have to? NC will eventually do that for us; you can bet the farm on it. Aion and Lineage players beware.

That is actually the crux of what's being discussed.

Kistulot

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #790 on: December 11, 2012, 08:28:33 PM »
Dividing amongst ourselves, and hurting other gamers/games, will not help us "against" NCSoft, or for City of Heroes.

It's easy to be against something.

It's a lot harder to be FOR something.

In the same vein as not labeling eachothers as sock puppets, sell outs, sparkling pegacorns, etc, let's also try not to reach out for something to attack. Yes, NCSoft wronged us. Yes, I'd be happy for them to crash too. But we arent watching their stock prices because we all got together to watch the company die. "This is a Save Paragon City!" board, not a "Destroy NCSoft!" board, and its important to remember that. Yes, NCSoft having financial leverage against them helps us. Yes, them being in a less than advantageous position helps us.

But I think the more we start encouraging, accepting, going down the route of collateral damage, the less we look like something worth supporting - and this isn't really just about us.

CoH being shut down like it was represents a blow against gamers and -consumers- globally. It shows possible international bias causing harm to consumers who were in good faith supporting a product, and a company, only for everything to go away because someone wanted it to - not because it was harming shareholders or a company at large.

CoH being shut down when older games are still going, some not even in maintenance mode, is a blow against old-but-proffitable. Tripple A titles are not all that the gaming industry wants, or needs right now. They look shiny and pretty, but the smaller scene, indy games, lower budget titles, MMORPGs still making money but-not-WoW-levels, these all still have value.

This is a GAMER cause. This is a GAMER issue.

If someone came in here and said they were an Aion subscriber, as much as that game annoys me for its possible connections to the closing of CoH... if they were throwing their load in with us, I would happily accept them.

Because they could get hurt like us.

Because we were one internet, one gaming community, and one people who enjoy having fun by pressing buttons and having a character do stuff on screen.

Remembering this can only make us stronger :)
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Terwyn

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #791 on: December 11, 2012, 08:37:14 PM »
Guys, while we've been talking, NCsoft has risen back to 157k won.  over the weekend between Dec. 7th and Dec. 10th, they somehow rose from 145k to 152k.

I'm not happy about this development.

It is to be expected, sadly. I note that although a certain article was released and caused the sudden drop to a new 52-week low, it hasn't penetrated into the minds of investors. If they characterize it as a western issue, caused by western minds not comprehending and thus complaining about Korean business practises, why should the investors in Korea care?

Our best bet would be to take it up with those responsible for international trade, showing them that the gulf in conceptual understanding caused by the cultural differences may well have further consequences on both sides of the border.
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Twisted Toon

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #792 on: December 11, 2012, 08:38:25 PM »
I think the least amount of time I've gone between new systems was about two years, but I have three systems running.

I just upgrade components in my gaming PC until the motherboard isn't able to support it anymore (recently replaced it due to the fact that I just couldn't get new AGP graphics cards anymore), but my last file server had been up and running since 1998 (and still on Windows 98) when I finally replaced it a couple of years ago.  My laptop is still doing just fine after a memory upgrade or two over the years and I think I've had it since '05 or '06.

Aside from the laptop, I've been buying components and building my own systems since about 2000.  Since they don't track new PC sales by looking at components, I've spent a whole lot of money they aren't taking into account.
Every computer I've had since 1997 was built from parts. Usually, I will swap the Hard Drive from the old one to the new one so I don't have to go through the whole re-installation of everything every time. This last computer I built I didn't do that.

But yeah, they haven't been counting my money spent on computers for over a decade.

a PC requires: 1 upgrade ~5 +/- 2 years to keep up with the current games (or if parts die) which runs ~$1500-2000 for high end components (assuming brand new full upgrade, individual parts vary and can be less), can play pretty much any game regardless of generation so your games dont become "obsolete" after 2 generations, and can get games MUCH cheaper (IE through steam very easy to buy most games <$20 with how often they do sales, even on new $60 games)
To quote a line from Independence Day, "Uh... Mr. President. That's not entirely accurate. "  I have a few PC games that just will not play on Operating Systems that are newer than Win98. It has to do with how they access memory and the changes in how the newer Operating Systems allow programs to access memory. I tend to not upgrade my OS until I'm forced to. In fact, I won't be able to play X-Com: Enemy Unknown (http://www.xcom.com/enemyunknown/) unless I get Vista or Windows 7

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okami

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #793 on: December 11, 2012, 08:39:51 PM »
If someone came in here and said they were an Aion subscriber, as much as that game annoys me for its possible connections to the closing of CoH... if they were throwing their load in with us, I would happily accept them.

IMHO Aion is probably next in line to feel the executioner's axe and not the GW games so it'd be in their self-interest to throw in with #SaveCoH before there needs to be a #SaveAion.

chasearcanum

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #794 on: December 11, 2012, 08:43:06 PM »
Guys, while we've been talking, NCsoft has risen back to 157k won.  over the weekend between Dec. 7th and Dec. 10th, they somehow rose from 145k to 152k.

I'm not happy about this development.

Don't worry too much.  Rallies are common enough.   

The fact is still that the day the news article came out, there was a substantial dip in NCSoft shares that took several days to rebound, even after normal stock-bolstering practices like layoff announcements were made.

We're getting hits that they've had to respond to... hits that came AFTER the game's shutdown, when they should be thinking that the worst was behind them... probably a lot bigger of a hit than they'd expect for a game that was less than 1% of their overall sales (and ~25% of their NA/European sales).  That will keep them on their toes and thinking about us... and as long as that's the case, then there's still the potential they'll take action.

Feycat

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #795 on: December 11, 2012, 08:46:03 PM »
Frog,  I don't think any of us are looking to totally "shut down" ncsoft, but:

GG is. She's said as much, she includes directly targetting their other MMOs, and she's the leader of one of the Plan Z projects the whole site is associated with. That's part of the problem. There's a sizable and vocal contingent here who are totally willing to burn the witch and take the whole village with her.

Illusionss

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #796 on: December 11, 2012, 08:51:30 PM »
Frankly want NCStupid gone, so that the inevitable CoX emulator can remain unchallenged.

If Arenanet has a suicide buy-back option, all the better. GW2 will remain untouched, NC can burn right down to the ground for all of me. And I'm absolutely serious. NC does not care about us.

Why would I care about such a bunch of killswitch-throwers, in return?

Feycat

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #797 on: December 11, 2012, 08:53:45 PM »
Frankly want NCStupid gone, so that the inevitable CoX emulator can remain unchallenged.

If Arenanet has a suicide buy-back option, all the better. GW2 will remain untouched, NC can burn right down to the ground for all of me. And I'm absolutely serious. NC does not care about us.

Why would I care about such a bunch of killswitch-throwers, in return?

No one is suggested you should care about NCsoft.

What's being suggested is that we campaign with dignity, rather than acting like terrorist toddlers, and trying not to go out of our way to inflict the same pain we're facing on other games. It's not cool, and it's not the community we should be representing.

chasearcanum

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #798 on: December 11, 2012, 08:54:14 PM »
GG is. She's said as much, she includes directly targetting their other MMOs, and she's the leader of one of the Plan Z projects the whole site is associated with. That's part of the problem. There's a sizable and vocal contingent here who are totally willing to burn the witch and take the whole village with her.

I should change that "any" to "many."   

I'm too used to taking some peoples' rhetoric with a grain of salt (or just ignoring them) but they are here and do add an unstable element that needs countered now and again.

chasearcanum

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #799 on: December 11, 2012, 09:00:32 PM »
Frankly want NCStupid gone, so that the inevitable CoX emulator can remain unchallenged.


That's not how it would work, though.

If NCSoft disintegrated overnight, its assets would be sold off, and we could certianly put in a bid for the CoH IP at that point.  If we got it, there'd be no need for a CoX emulator.   If we were outbid, though, we'd probably see a rather aggressive new owner pursuing the CoX emulator so their investment was protected, regardless of what they decided to do with it.

On top of that, the whole "disintegration/ sell off" process would be slow, resource intensive, and likely freeze any other effort to recover the city.