Author Topic: NCSoft Stockwatch  (Read 722932 times)

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1420 on: January 23, 2013, 09:58:38 PM »
Definition of a "Concern Unicorn":

"...someone who is on one side of the discussion, but pretends to be a supporter of the other side with 'concerns.' The idea behind this is that your opponents will take your arguments more seriously if they think you're an ally.  [Such a person] posts on a blog thread, in the guise of 'concern,' to disrupt dialogue or undermine morale by pointing out that posters and/or the site may be getting themselves in trouble, usually with an authority or power. They point out problems that don't really exist. The intent is to derail, stifle, [and] control the dialogue."

"...a false flag pseudonym created by a user whose actual point of view is opposed to the one that the user claims to hold... posts in Web forums devoted to its declared point of view and attempts to sway the group's actions or opinions while claiming to share their goals, but with professed 'concerns.' The goal is to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt within the group."

"the message is: 'I have some concerns about your methods. If you did these things to make your message less effective, it would be more effective.' ...This preys on a willingness to debate critics and allow dissent; everyone wastes time discussing the matter and bending over backwards, so as not to appear intolerant of disagreement, all to the great amusement of the sender."

"Experienced participants in online forums know that the most effective way to discourage a unicorn is usually to ignore it."

Why am I posting this? Oh, no reason. Just a gentle reminder to everybody. Nothing to see here. Please carry on. :: Whistles innocently. ::

I am sorry but I disagree I don't see Frog as one of these people at all.  He/She is simply expressing her opinion, one I actually agree with, just because you don't agree doesn't mean she is a unicorn.  He/She is expressing his/her concern that we may be coming off to strong, that is not trying to spread fear or self doubt in anyway at all.  Seriously guys shame on you for just calling anyone who disagrees with you a unicorn.  Go ahead I am sure I am one now, what you think is irrelevant I have been here sense day 1 fighting on behalf of CoH.  I donated, I signed, I spread, Ive done the call to actions, I not only paid for but spent about 8 hours mastering the "Want my City back song." That is about 600 dollars if you aren't aware of studio prices.  I have seen Little Frog here from day 1 too.  But hey Little Frog, we don't agree with everyone else so we must be unicorns trying to de-rail the conversation and spread fear and doubt.  Shame on you guys.  Especially you Colette, I have always been impressed with your rational and well thought out posts.

Illusionss

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1421 on: January 23, 2013, 10:24:55 PM »
Well Taceus, this is not just relative to this thread, but has been seen in many others as well. Whatever others do about the loss of CoX, Frog does not like it: from serious stuff to Victoria joking about having a sorcerer cast a hex on the company. He does not like it! The fact that others even think of defying NCStupid: he does not like it!  He just plain ol' does not like anyone taking action in a way that might harm or embarrass NCSoft.

People are finally starting to call him on it.

Thankfully it is not my fight, so that's all I'll say.

NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1422 on: January 23, 2013, 10:35:11 PM »
Well Taceus, this is not just relative to this thread, but has been seen in many others as well. Whatever others do about the loss of CoX, Frog does not like it: from serious stuff to Victoria joking about having a sorcerer cast a hex on the company. He does not like it! The fact that others even think of defying NCStupid: he does not like it!  He just plain ol' does not like anyone taking action in a way that might harm or embarrass NCSoft.

People are finally starting to call him on it.

Thankfully it is not my fight, so that's all I'll say.

i concur, basically anytime i see them in a thread their posts are just massive derailment to the main topic of said thread

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1423 on: January 23, 2013, 11:26:27 PM »
Well Taceus, this is not just relative to this thread, but has been seen in many others as well. Whatever others do about the loss of CoX, Frog does not like it: from serious stuff to Victoria joking about having a sorcerer cast a hex on the company. He does not like it! The fact that others even think of defying NCStupid: he does not like it!  He just plain ol' does not like anyone taking action in a way that might harm or embarrass NCSoft.

People are finally starting to call him on it.

Thankfully it is not my fight, so that's all I'll say.

That I respect Illusionss, your point is valid and you aren't name calling.  And your two cents is always welcome to me just like everyone else.  That is what bothered me about the above post by Collete, it seems at times that most people here are willing to share their two cents, but not hear the two cents of someone who feels different.  At least in extreme cases of swinging opinions like this one.  I have seen Frog disagree with many, many people on this forum.  In fact I have disagreed with Frog on many topics. But I, personally, never once got the feeling he/she was a unicorn if anything someone who just happens to have completely different opinions of those on here.  Just to clarify I am not saying anyone is wrong here, just that I don't agree with the topic at hand
Quote
i concur, basically anytime i see them in a thread their posts are just massive derailment to the main topic of said thread
  Who is them NecrotechMaster?
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derailment to the main topic of said thread
the OP is about the NCSoft Stock watch, we are all guilty of thread derailment here and the way this came to be is Little Frog talking about not being to aggressive and scaring off possible buyers or investors, that IS somewhat related to stock watch and it only stopped being related to stock watch when this little argument came up. 


NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1424 on: January 24, 2013, 12:19:10 AM »
  Who is them NecrotechMaster?

 the OP is about the NCSoft Stock watch, we are all guilty of thread derailment here and the way this came to be is Little Frog talking about not being to aggressive and scaring off possible buyers or investors, that IS somewhat related to stock watch and it only stopped being related to stock watch when this little argument came up.

was talking about Little Green Frog

and i guess so, the way they word their arguments though sounds more hostile than discussive though which is why most are seeing it as unicorning

this kind of argument comes up in almost every thread that ive seen Frog post in though which is why is why i see it as thread derailment
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 01:42:11 AM by NecrotechMaster »

dwturducken

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1425 on: January 24, 2013, 12:24:35 AM »
Before we go pointing fingers regarding derailing threads, would anyone care to look back and see what page we last discussed the state of the stock? Aside from the throwaway "it was at x, today" from a couple of pages ago. I believe there is even an Internet Rule regarding thread drift. :)
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1426 on: January 24, 2013, 01:19:36 AM »
Just to add another rail, this about the capriciousness of the stock exchange, look what happened to Apple today.  Sales up 17.7%.  iPhone sales up 29.2%, iPad sales up 48.4%.  But profits were flat and the iPhone growth wasn't as high as analysts expected so hammer time, stock off 9.8% after hours (and after Apple's conference call).
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1427 on: January 24, 2013, 03:07:44 AM »
They're crawling out of their hole this week. What happened to spark that?
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1428 on: January 24, 2013, 03:46:15 AM »
That I respect Illusionss, your point is valid and you aren't name calling.  And your two cents is always welcome to me just like everyone else.  That is what bothered me about the above post by Collete, it seems at times that most people here are willing to share their two cents, but not hear the two cents of someone who feels different.  At least in extreme cases of swinging opinions like this one.  I have seen Frog disagree with many, many people on this forum.  In fact I have disagreed with Frog on many topics. But I, personally, never once got the feeling he/she was a unicorn if anything someone who just happens to have completely different opinions of those on here.  Just to clarify I am not saying anyone is wrong here, just that I don't agree with the topic at hand  Who is them NecrotechMaster? the OP is about the NCSoft Stock watch, we are all guilty of thread derailment here and the way this came to be is Little Frog talking about not being to aggressive and scaring off possible buyers or investors, that IS somewhat related to stock watch and it only stopped being related to stock watch when this little argument came up.

Well it is what it is.. I tend to lurk like many.. but from where I sit, it seems like certain posters just have a love of the argument.  As in, MUST MAKE IT.. CANNOT RESIST.  Do I think the accusations are anything sinister?  No. Just the desire to be in the thick of it.  There are certain shades of green and red in a lot of "opposition posts".   I found Colette's post amusing, specifically because it didn't call anyone out by name.  YMMV.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1429 on: January 24, 2013, 04:03:36 AM »
Okay, that was interesting,  but... well, damn, I'm not gonna answer all of that because I'm not even sure what that was.  :P  I will say this: the idea is to partially unicorn NCSoft with a class-action lawsuit.  The main idea is to get them to relinquish the IP.  That means a suit would be filed with every intention of going to court, because my preliminary investigation reveals these things are not cheap to file.  So whoever files one has to be committed to see it through to the end.  That said, the hope would be that news of the suit would cause their stock to tank, them to panic, and cave without ever going to trial.

As for concerns about a buyer looking askance at the fan base committed enough to take that kind of drastic step?  I believe NCSoft's pancakery with regard to us would be unprecedented here if they themselves hadn't already set the precedent themselves several times over.
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kierthos

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1430 on: January 24, 2013, 04:13:59 AM »
They're crawling out of their hole this week. What happened to spark that?
No idea. At least, I'm not seeing anything across a few easily checked news feeds.

*shrug* Maybe it's just a bull market on Korean stocks right now?

Pinnacle Blue

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1431 on: January 24, 2013, 04:15:38 AM »
One more quick thing: sure, NCSoft did good for CoX in the past, but they violated the "one goat" rule.
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1432 on: January 24, 2013, 04:54:10 AM »
Okay, that was interesting,  but... well, damn, I'm not gonna answer all of that because I'm not even sure what that was.  :P  I will say this: the idea is to partially unicorn NCSoft with a class-action lawsuit.  The main idea is to get them to relinquish the IP.  That means a suit would be filed with every intention of going to court, because my preliminary investigation reveals these things are not cheap to file.  So whoever files one has to be committed to see it through to the end.  That said, the hope would be that news of the suit would cause their stock to tank, them to panic, and cave without ever going to trial.

As for concerns about a buyer looking askance at the fan base committed enough to take that kind of drastic step?  I believe NCSoft's pancakery with regard to us would be unprecedented here if they themselves hadn't already set the precedent themselves several times over.

To me the idea of a class action suit to force NCsoft to sell the IP is like a group of neighbors who use to borrow one guys sweet riding lawnmower to do their own yards but he now refuses to let them anymore now that he got a new one so they are suing to force him to sell the old one to them.  Unless there was some co-ownership agreement in place,  no court will force an entity to sell their wholly owned property against their will, period.  And in our case we were merely users of a service that is simply no longer available, never co-owners.
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JaguarX

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1433 on: January 24, 2013, 05:07:48 AM »
To me the idea of a class action suit to force NCsoft to sell the IP is like a group of neighbors who use to borrow one guys sweet riding lawnmower to do their own yards but he now refuses to let them anymore now that he got a new one so they are suing to force him to sell the old one to them.  Unless there was some co-ownership agreement in place,  no court will force an entity to sell their wholly owned property against their will, period.  And in our case we were merely users of a service that is simply no longer available, never co-owners.

precise.

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1434 on: January 24, 2013, 07:13:30 AM »
Morgan Stanley still lists NCSoft as a stock to be dumped.  Wildstar is no closer to being rolled out, and I have it on extremely good authority that Carbine is operating under "two month warnings" now, which is NO way to run a company nor to get your creative people to do anything other than start looking for jobs elsewhere.  GW2 is still underperforming.  Despite all the trumpeting of projects to come with Nexxon, not a single project has been announced.  Games which were supposed to be released in China by now have not been.  Games which were supposed to have been released in the US by now have not been. 

Sooner or later someone is going to notice all these things.
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NecrotechMaster

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1435 on: January 24, 2013, 07:22:24 AM »
Morgan Stanley still lists NCSoft as a stock to be dumped.  Wildstar is no closer to being rolled out, and I have it on extremely good authority that Carbine is operating under "two month warnings" now, which is NO way to run a company nor to get your creative people to do anything other than start looking for jobs elsewhere.  GW2 is still underperforming.  Despite all the trumpeting of projects to come with Nexxon, not a single project has been announced.  Games which were supposed to be released in China by now have not been.  Games which were supposed to have been released in the US by now have not been. 

Sooner or later someone is going to notice all these things.

it sounds like its our job to start getting it publicized then lol

it sounds as a whole that they are falling behind and if they drop carbine that will be another major hit to their reputation with investors

Taceus Jiwede

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1436 on: January 24, 2013, 08:27:03 AM »
Morgan Stanley still lists NCSoft as a stock to be dumped.  Wildstar is no closer to being rolled out, and I have it on extremely good authority that Carbine is operating under "two month warnings" now, which is NO way to run a company nor to get your creative people to do anything other than start looking for jobs elsewhere.  GW2 is still underperforming.  Despite all the trumpeting of projects to come with Nexxon, not a single project has been announced.  Games which were supposed to be released in China by now have not been.  Games which were supposed to have been released in the US by now have not been. 

Sooner or later someone is going to notice all these things.

NCSoft has seen sunnier days, probably shouldn't have screwed all those people over.  Seems like they are running out of bridges.  Richard Garriot is probably behind this.  He is Lord British after all and has magic powers.

Edit: Left "have" out on accident

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1437 on: January 24, 2013, 09:47:24 AM »
Morgan Stanley still lists NCSoft as a stock to be dumped.  Wildstar is no closer to being rolled out, and I have it on extremely good authority that Carbine is operating under "two month warnings" now, which is NO way to run a company nor to get your creative people to do anything other than start looking for jobs elsewhere.  GW2 is still underperforming.  Despite all the trumpeting of projects to come with Nexxon, not a single project has been announced.  Games which were supposed to be released in China by now have not been.  Games which were supposed to have been released in the US by now have not been. 

Sooner or later someone is going to notice all these things.

Morgan Stanley is one of 39 or 40 firms with analysts looking at NCsoft.  All but Morgan Stanley and one other has NCsoft as a buy or outperform.

As for Carbine and Wildstar, they are still cranking out their weekly blog to get the buzz on.  Of course Paragon had constant updates about new content right up to the plug being pulled but at that point CoH had cumulative sales of $170+ million.  Carbine is currently a big negative.  It would be a huge right off and a serious loss of face that the "Most Anticipated MMO for 2013" declared by multiple sites and game cons is still born.  As for the 2 month watch list, there is an old saying that goes "in every products development there comes a time to shoot the engineers and put it into production".

Yes B&S was suppose to be nearly out in China already but they had to do some serious retooling between the first and second closed tests.  Yes, it was to de-sleezify the female characters as well as toning down the blood shed.  However I hadn't heard anything about other titles being late to roll out.  The GW2 port was always targeting 4th quarter once the western version of the game came out.  Asian language ports can be somewhat difficult due to the much larger character set (which can be planed for) plus all the recorded dialog in the game.  Also don't forget that WoW had significant delays with several of their expansions in China.

Maybe Nexon can lend NCsoft some pointers because Nexon has a much larger presence in China than NCsoft.  That kind of experience is invaluable.

Yes there's been a joint project announcement back in November, Mabinogi Arena 2.

And I don't know where you are getting your information about GW2 but this evening all but 2 of the 24 American "worlds" have either very high populations or are closed to new characters.  However a lot of players are currently transferring characters about as the free server transfers are ending next week as they finally getting guest play  working.  Guesting allows you to play your character on your home and two other worlds every day.  Guest worlds last 24 hours before you can choose a different world.

Now do I think in 2 or 3 weeks that the 4Q and annual numbers will disappoint compared to analyst forecasts, sure, it never ceases to surprise me how bad "experts" can predict quarterly sales and earnings.  But unlike November I don't think we'll see another 25% drop in price because fundamentally the company is doing alright relative to other Korean game companies, even the larger software companies.  The P/E and P/S rations are now, after the correction that started Oct 2011, in an acceptable range.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 10:00:50 AM by FatherXmas »
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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1438 on: January 24, 2013, 12:48:09 PM »
To me the idea of a class action suit to force NCsoft to sell the IP is like a group of neighbors who use to borrow one guys sweet riding lawnmower to do their own yards but he now refuses to let them anymore now that he got a new one so they are suing to force him to sell the old one to them.  Unless there was some co-ownership agreement in place,  no court will force an entity to sell their wholly owned property against their will, period.  And in our case we were merely users of a service that is simply no longer available, never co-owners.

The idea of going after NCsoft because they closed ARE GAME!!! is silly and would be thrown out of court in extremely short order. Want to really scare NCsoft with a lawsuit? Dig up some dirt on them, get your hands on a memo or email that looks bad in the sunlight and threaten the lawsuit then. You could send NCsoft a certified letter saying "We're filing a lawsuit because you closed COH" and they'd welcome it. I'm positive a company like NCsoft probably does 100 illegal things a day, find an example of that to throw at them and now we're talking.

We don't need to be a community of sad refugees anymore, we need to be activists dedicated to making NCsoft hurt until they sell CoH.

Illusionss

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Re: NCSoft Stockwatch
« Reply #1439 on: January 24, 2013, 02:19:12 PM »
At this point I firmly believe that NCSoft will go down clutching that IP to their collective chest, last thing they ever do is going to be hold onto that IP with a death-grip and never, ever let go. The waves will wash over their head and they will die proud, CoX IP in hand. "NEVER WILL YOU TOUCH OUR SACRED PRECIOUS GAME!!" Now, since they hold it so very dear one is forced to wonder: then why kill the game in the first place? But no, logic does not apply here. No point in wondering.

They're not going to give it up. I have written a sale off as a lost cause; however I'm still hoping that the Great Bird of Karma flies back around and delivers a great big load of payback er.... whitewash onto their heads as they sink with the ship.

As you do to others, so may it be done unto you, NCSoft. May a great big "BOOM! HEADSHOT, LOL!" be the last thing you ever hear as a corporation.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 02:37:32 PM by Illusionss »