Main Page redesign

[Aggelakis]

made a stab at merging and condensing the about/helping sections (this uses Sekoia's Main_Page_Four that brings the popular destinations up out of the left column at lower resolutions)

[taosin]

edit: tried with no small caps (where I could) : i think this is a clearer sharper look, and the About section deserves that amount of 'weight'. thoughts?

Beat me to it Agge!

• We were going to start a new topic for this? Too late heh.

Awesome job Sek.

I too made a stab at merging the about and help.

http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Taosin/Sandbox/Main_Page

it's a bit longer, does happen to closely balance out on the new main page at 'common' browser sizes.

i do like the dark blue for the welcoem block. Am personally loathing Small Caps on an aesthetic level.

Here's my notes on my revision, for review only!, most still seem to apply to Agge's stab.

At this stage content only! I am not layout guy in wiki terms.

Welcome to Paragon Wiki, not welcome to City of Heroes. (very first sentence). I would think NCsoft can welcome players to the game, we can welcome readers to the wiki! Thoughts?

yes, as bold as news.

About the wiki in bold (no need for 'about the paragon Wiki' as it is redundant here, as this comes after that boxed heading)

Acknowledge there are French and German language servers and readers.

Moved the how to write part from here to below.

Thought very worthwhile establishing history of wiki; 2nd para in brief. A nod to the growing acknowledgements out there too (see CS thread). Also a nice positioning against erm, whatever that other wiki is.

Helping out Section this could be boxed tried a box like i said content for me :>

Starts with the donation, that's it! For those who love this and don't wish/can't write.

Kept the Wanted..Skillz heading!

Here's the place where i moved the bit from the about section (I do not think it belongs in an 'About' section?), and we start on editing content.

Tried for a slightly different tone , hopefully as clear and one iota less forma while still professional.

On Agge's page

think "Ad Free Fan Site" is not the right tone, personally.

Updating section: prefer 1st sentence in About.

[taosin]

Looking at Agge's demo:

I liked the old graphic shown on the front page in the about section, as it had colour and movement.

my thoughts:

I am strongly against just having the CoH:LF logo on the front page, as it looks too much like branding and an official endorsement to me; (and (this again my view only!) too 'corporate'.

Just putting this here for feedback and thoughts?

I'd prefer a similar image to the old one on the new front page.

Took a wallpaper, and did some work, resulting in:

http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//3/35/PwikilogoB450x100.jpg
http://paragonwiki.com/w/images//a/a9/PwikilogoB200x44.jpg

I very slightly accented the edges to maintain sharpness at smaller scale.

the original graphic is was replacing was native 443 x 95 px. These two are 450px x 100 and 200 x 44.

This lets the front page use it without scaling a larger image, i guess.

Do have a preferenence for no border and no rounded edges on grapgics like this on the front page, the small size does not warrant it (unless a one point outline!)

An example of the large one at 350 px is http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Taosin/Sandbox/pwikiabout
An example of the 200px version is at http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Taosin/Sandbox/Main_Page

Very prepared here to keep changing front page graphics as the game evolves!

edit: oh i guess i can show'em here!

native 200px version:
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//a/a9/PwikilogoB200x44.jpg
native 450px version
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//3/35/PwikilogoB450x100.jpg

And 200px with stroke:
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//1/1b/PwikilogoB200x44edge.jpg

[Sekoia]

There isn't a strong consensus but I get the impression that this option has the broadest appeal: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Sekoia/Sandbox/Main_Page_Four
And nobody sounds like they'll be overly upset by it. So unless there are any strong objections, I'll plan to update the Main Page with this within the new few days.

I just updated the Main Page with this design.

[taosin]

Love it!

Also updated my sandboxything to see how it'd look with the diff. stab at the Welcome/help:

On the new SekV4 page it looks like this:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Taosin/Sandbox/Main_Page2

The tao-esque-take on the Welcome/About is at http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/User:Taosin/Sandbox/pwikiabout

Not liking the real World hero gif, seems dodgy; am seeing if I can make a much cleaner one for 125x125px.

[Aggelakis]

Not liking the real World hero gif, seems dodgy; am seeing if I can make a much cleaner one for 125x125px.

What does this even mean? You're going to create a new RWH gif?

RWH is a charity event that runs every holiday season, they're the ones that supplied the banner/logo. That is their logo, so if you cannot reproduce it pretty much 100% faithfully, I respectfully request you to not do it at all.

Additionally, regarding your proposed about/help section: it looks messy and fairly unprofessional. I am not much of a fan.

[Sekoia]

Thoughts on the About overhaul...

On the whole, I like Agge's revisions. Further thoughts below mostly are using her revisions as a basis.

I'm inclined to drop the reference to Wanted Pages. I doubt many people ever go there to create new pages. I also don't think it's a very user-friendly way to jump into the wiki.

I think it could be valuable to make some reference to the wiki having been started in 2005. Possible points of inclusion:
- "Since 2005, the Paragon Wiki has been a central repository of all things that have to do with NCsoft's City of Heroes..."
- "Paragon Wiki has been an ad-free site since it's creation in 2005. If you find the wiki valuable..."

It looks like Agge dropped the references to the community portal and the Titan forums (ie the "Talk and more..." section). I am fine with that. Both of those are linked in the left-hand navigation column.

The CoH Freedom logo looks a bit too... I dunno, big? bold? However, I also don't really care for the image shown on Toasin's demo either. Do we really even need a logo/image? I think it looks better without.

Not liking the real World hero gif, seems dodgy; am seeing if I can make a much cleaner one for 125x125px.

I'm not sure what you intend, but the Real World charity drive ends December 31, so it's probably not worth spending time on it regardless at this point.

[taosin]

Agge: What does this even mean? You're going to create a new RWH gif?

Ahh, 'dodgy' is a useful Australian technical term <grin> (my slang slipped in)

What I meant was the current gif is not very legible, and is hard to read. To me it's not high enough quality to put on a well-run and patronised site.

I went back to their main site and tried a newer version that is somewhat cleaner when reduced to 125 px. (knocked the black back to a grey to put focus where it should be, more heavily stroked the "Real World Hero" so it stands out at 125px, stroked the explanatory text and removed MMO form the explanatory text. Am proposing 'click here' is redundant, as we can click for more-info as well. Down-sampled to retain sharpness; have a master larger copy is photoshop).

I'd never make a change to the front page and put it up without asking for feedback!

That version is here: RealWorldHeroMKII.png (current version to the right)
https://paragonwiki.com/w/images//4/4d/RealWorldHeroMKII.png    https://images.weserv.nl/?url=realworldhero.com%2Fbanners%2Frealworldhero125x125.gif

Does it seem cleaner to others?

If it ends Dec 31, that's fine, but handy to keep a cleaner image for next year? Not sure when it appeared on the front page.

As to the revision About Welcome! (just my thoughts and clarifications!)

• Yes, please reference the 2005 start date, preferably in the About section.
• Yes, of course Wanted pages can go.
• Dropping Community Portal and Titan Forums works, i was trying to replicate the existing information, and was at pains not to drop any of the detail already present.
• We can go without a logo/image! indeed. Of the available wallpapers, the one chosen was the most representative, it is however a bit ... pale and wan for my tastes. And again I was trying not to drop existing components present in the current About and Help.
• 'Additionally, regarding your proposed about/help section: it looks messy and fairly unprofessional. I am not much of a fan." noted! can only put em up!

In the above, I do believe very strongly that the wiki should have a strong encouragement for anyone to try and contribute, right there on the front page, no matter how short. Having said that i am now visualising a 'launch page' (new page) that various classes of contributors would find useful. It'll percolate for as few days.

Specifically on Agge's revision then:

About...

The initial two paragraphs (to me) are in the wrong order? Consider welcoming to the wiki, then promoting/explaining CoH.

• Would prefer it to start with "Welcome to Paragon Wiki", not "Welcome to City of Heroes"
• If " "Welcome to City of Heroes" is retained, please consider changing it to ' "Welcome to City of Heroes: Freedom"?
• The first paragraph is one long sentence.  Consider simplifying?

Taking Sek's points into account, this means that About Section would be shorter.

Updating and Writing Articles:
The first sentence does not belong here if we take the heading at face value: "To find information, use the search box on the left, or feel free to browse the available categories or view the table of contents."  It does not (in my view) belong as the first sentence of the rest of that section, at the least it should stands in its own paragraph.
• First sentence again (to me) does not read well. Consider bulleting into three points? Worthwhile as Finding Information is rather the key thing and could benefit from being separated out.

• I would prefer a request to readers (i.e. a courteous expectation, not a demand) that they become familiar with the guidelines and help pages. Currently it reads as a demand. (i.e. "make sure")

Looking at the first paragraph, it does not flow. This is resolved by rephrasing "Make sure to familiarize yourself with Paragon Wiki Article Guidelines and help page prior to making contributions" perhaps like "Before making a contribution, please familiarize yourself with Paragon Wiki Article Guidelines and help pages"

In the para "If you want.."

"If you want to dive into writing some highly needed articles from scratch......." is unclear as it stands. It also contains redundancy in the second sentence. So perhaps something like: 'If you want to dive into writing some highly needed articles, check out the list of Wanted Pages. These are pages that are linked to from other pages, but as yet have not been written.'

The second part of that paragraph again seems to have too many commas. Instead of "They are sorted by the number of links that point to them, so by filling in the articles towards the top of the list, you will be giving the most bang for your temporal buck." perhaps something like "They are sorted by the number of links that point to them. By filling in the articles near the top of the list, you will be getting the most bang for your temporal buck."

To me the latter reads more clearly? Same meaning, more simply and clearly said ?

Trivial: Not sure of US-usage, but here in oz we get bang for our buck, not give bang for our buck?

Ad-Free Fan Site

As mentioned by Sek, consider referencing six years here?

As mentioned in a previous post, I am not a fan of this title for this part!

Am fairly (not completely) sure that it should be "The staff of the Paragon Wiki do not see any.." (not does).

[Sekoia]

The image we're using for Real World Hero came from their site:
http://realworldhero.com/share/

We actually link directly to the image hosted on their server. I would recommend sending your revision to the Real World Hero crew and seeing if they might wish to adopt it. I'm inclined to use the images they request people to use to advertise their cause.

The initial two paragraphs (to me) are in the wrong order? Consider welcoming to the wiki, then promoting/explaining CoH.

This seems worth trying. I wonder if it will read awkwardly, but only way to find out is to try it.

• I would prefer a request to readers (i.e. a courteous expectation, not a demand) that they become familiar with the guidelines and help pages. Currently it reads as a demand. (i.e. "make sure")

I agree, a courteous expectation is better than a demand.

Trivial: Not sure of US-usage, but here in oz we get bang for our buck, not give bang for our buck?

The typical usage is get. But since it's in the context of contributing, give also makes sense.

However, I hope it's moot... I want to see that entire paragraph dropped. :)

Ad-Free Fan Site

As mentioned by Sek, consider referencing six years here?

Actually I suggested mentioning the year (2005), not the age (6 years). If we use the age, we'll have to remember update it each year, which may or may not happen in a timely fashion. Using the year is more future-friendly and conveys the same information.

Am fairly (not completely) sure that it should be "The staff of the Paragon Wiki do not see any.." (not does).

Refer to:
http://www.writingcenter.com/tenquestions.htm (point 8)
http://www.grammarbook.com/grammar/subjectVerbAgree.asp (rule 15)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_staff_singular_or_plural

The best solution here may be to reword to avoid the issue entirely. According to wiktionary, staff are employees. The wiki has no employees. How about "The administrators of the Paragon Wiki do not..." or "The admins of the Paragon Wiki do not..."?

[taosin]

Sek: We actually link directly to the image hosted on their server. (Real World Hero)

Just noticed this in retrospect before coming back to this thread. I certainly will nicely get in touch with them. I'd usually be inclined myself to only used 'approved; images, i do think their image is less than well done. I'll add back the "Click here" on  a 2nd version, and send both, and recap any correspondence when it is done in this forum, then!

Me: The initial two paragraphs (to me) are in the wrong order? Consider welcoming to the wiki, then promoting/explaining CoH. Sek: This seems worth trying. I wonder if it will read awkwardly, but only way to find out is to try it.

Ahh, am electing Agge as the holder  of the edits as we are working of his basis? (to avoid thrashing?)

I am noting on scanning the CoH site that the term City of Heroes is correct, and getting the sense of when they use the term City of heroes: Freedom.

Well, hmm, how about:

Base (Agge version):

Welcome to City of Heroes, the online world that's home to an entire multiverse of super powered beings, where you and thousands of other players take on the roles of super powered heroes and villains, vigilantes and rogues, in a stunning, 3D graphical world.

Paragon Wiki is intended to be a central repository of all things that have to do with NCsoft's City of Heroes, all the way from launch through the latest incarnation. This wiki is a community effort. If you cannot find the information you are searching for, please add it to the wiki for other users to see, or post in the Titan Network's Requested Articles forum.

Suggestion:

Welcome to the Paragon Wiki.  is intended to be a central repository since 2006 of all things that have to do with NCsoft's City of Heroes, all the way from launch through the latest incarnation, City of Heroes: Freedom. This The wiki is a community effort created and maintained by countless contributors.

City of Heroes is an online world that's home to an entire multiverse of super powered beings. you and thousands of other players take on the roles of super-powered heroes, villains, vigilantes and rogues. All in a stunning 3D graphical world.

Without strikes, a twist, and adding the To find bit as well:

Welcome to the Paragon Wiki. Since 2005, the wiki has been a central repository of all things to do with NCsoft's City of Heroes, all the way from launch through the latest incarnation: City of Heroes: Freedom. It is a community effort created and maintained by countless contributors.

City of Heroes is an online world that's home to an entire multiverse of super powered beings. You and thousands of other players take on the roles of super-powered heroes, villains, vigilantes and rogues. All in a stunning 3D graphical world.

To find information: use the search box on the left; feel free to browse the available categories; or view the table of contents.

Noting:
• "Welcome to Paragon Wiki." to me stands stroingly and simply on its own in its own sentence.
• the wiki is now a central repository, we've arrived, no intent is required? (more direct, hence strike out one)
• Added birth year  to first para, I hope elegantly?
• struck out 'have to do', redundant?
• prefer "the wiki" not "this wiki"
• "it is" used to open last sentence, I think this reads more easily without repetition, and the pronoun is clear here?
• slightly enlarged 'community effort' for emphasis, as it seemed to end abruptly without it, suspicious of 'countless contributors' but do feel that is a core of an About section?
• Second para split the info about the game into three sentences, each handling one subject. Seems to read better and more clearly to me?
• Hmm, added the To Find information here. I think it belongs here, not in writing and updating. just my two cents though. Did use : and ; to make a sentence list.

Sek: 'The best solution here may be to reword to avoid the issue entirely. "

Indeed. I like yours, and can moot: "No one associated with the administration, maintenance or hosting of the wiki see any..." (and leave out the term administrators?)

(edit stealth ps for fun only: Sek on Staff Do and Does correctly cites US American English and Usage., certainly correct for the wiki! Alas I usually correctly use normal (for me) and correct usuage in British and Australian English. I'll always be caught out (is pretty ingrained!). The Austrlian Gov. Style guide is not electronic, but http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-m_plural-singular.htm shows how this side use the term (generally).

[Aggelakis]

A little bit of a rewrite

[Sekoia]

A little bit of a rewrite

I like. :)

[taosin]

ooooohhhh. i like too  :>

Personally love it, so happy for it to go live.

Only quibble (and this is very much personal taste and can be happily ignored) is 'Ad Free Fan Site' as a heading. Well, yes it is! But would prefer the heading to be more direct as to what the text below is doing, which is asking for donations. My personal take is that would suit the tone of the site better.

ie headings more direct such as:
Help keep the wiki ad free!
Can you help keep the wiki ad free
etc.

If that was adopted, the first sentence would change to something like "Paragon Wiki is a fan-site and has been ad-free..."

Final (promise!) quibble is that by defining it as a fan site here, then I kind of think that it shouldealso have 'fan site' mentioned in the first para of the About, somewhere.

[GuyPerfect]

Srsly, what's "Most Recent" supposed to be? It hasn't changed since the last time this thread touched on it.

[Blondeshell]

According to the Quick Reference template, it appears to be a manually-updated list.  I like the thought of having a list automagically populated with, say, the newest new articles (not edits), but having to do it manually makes it almost not worth having.

[Sekoia]

Srsly, what's "Most Recent" supposed to be? It hasn't changed since the last time this thread touched on it.

Since it's apparently not clear and you don't like it, how about suggesting something better? Evidently you're not alone in finding it confusing, so a change would be warranted if someone thinks of something better to put there.

I like the thought of having a list automagically populated with, say, the newest new articles (not edits), but having to do it manually makes it almost not worth having.

Automatic generation sounds nice in theory but in practice I feel it would give us inconsistent results. Take a look through Special:NewPages. Some of the new pages are great candidates for the front page maybe... but others, not so much.

Plus, I looked to see if DPL could do this and, to my surprise, I couldn't find anything that suggests it can. (Of course, it's possible I'm just overlooking it.)

[GuyPerfect]

Since it's apparently not clear and you don't like it, how about suggesting something better?

"Better" would require knowing what it is in the first place. As far as I know, it's accurate just the way it is.

Who put it there? What do they say it is?

[Sekoia]

"Better" would require knowing what it is in the first place. As far as I know, it's accurate just the way it is.

Who put it there? What do they say it is?

If it's not working, then better would be something that works. That doesn't require knowing. :P Pretend there's a big empty gap there instead; what would you put there?

As I said before, Agge put it there originally. So she's the only one who can authoritatively answer what it's intended for.

[GuyPerfect]

Well, I kinda like what's in there--market stuff. If something's reflected in the news section I don't see why it couldn't also go into there. Discounts, new items, etc... Whatever's featured should be listed first in that box.

[Sekoia]

Well, I kinda like what's in there--market stuff. If something's reflected in the news section I don't see why it couldn't also go into there. Discounts, new items, etc... Whatever's featured should be listed first in that box.

So how about "Featured" for a title?