PVP

[PsykoTron]

Don't know if this has been covered or not, I couldn't find anything.

Why is mid's so inaccurate when it comes to it's pvp stats.
Particulary defence and resistance, yes I know differant pvp zones do different things but could but a dropdown menu or something to change for that zone.
example
Mids gives 40% resist buff for RV when it's only 10%, and doesn't do anything to the defence.

It makes it really hard to make a pvp build with inaccurate information.
Why even have a pvp button if the information is wrong.

[Steiner]

Not to insult you or anything, but it's "defense".

And I can't find any support documentation out-side of the game that verifies this and I personally don't PVP so I wouldn't be able to verify in-game without getting myself killed a crap-load of times, lol.

The PVP button was created when PVP was first released... when the damage you did in PVE and PVP were relatively the same... it was the game that made them differ so much and Mids' has simply been trying to keep up.

However there are just too many things to account for to have 100% accurate PVP builds; one of the biggies being Diminishing Returns...

Sadly even Mids himself didn't have the time or stable enough data to have the Mids' App account for PvP builds future complexity.

Now, I see you dilemma; PvP builds are A LOT of inf and not something to be taken lightly as most PvPers are pretty serious players (and seemingly rude from the pattern of comments/posts we've been getting from said portion of the community).

Let me answer your question with my own question: Why use the program if the information is so wrong?

We can't possibly account for everything the game does. I would honestly suggest using the Test server when delving into PvP builds if you want 100% accurate data.

[PsykoTron]

Thx for the spelling lesson. ( i sux at spelling )

I not really  looking for 100% accurate info but when I go into a pvp zone my defenSe takes a big drop but mids does nothing.

And you made my unmentioned point INFAMY/INFLUENCE, I love the game PVE and PVP.
I don't have the time or infamy to make build after build to figure out the perfect one.
Mids is AWSOME at building PVE builds, but really sux (ya I know sucks) at PVP.
I know it's hard to stay on top of the data, but I'd attleast like to see something even close to resembling 75% accurate. that way I know if I'm even going in the right direction.

As for data hitting the PVP button in mids does nothing to defense, but look at your defense outside of RV then look at them when you go in and they change. I guess deminishing returns, don't know.

I hope I answered your question. (If not I do PVE and mids is accurate for PVE, well I would say 95+% accurate)
Ya I'm kinda a noob, only have my 21 month vet.

I hope I don't sound like I'm bashing mids or anyone, I still use mids and will continue to use it, just would like to see more inprovement in the PVP side of it.

[Steiner]

Apologies for my own snark in my initial reply.

PVP is more St0n3y's thing and would probably have a viable solution for this. I will bring it up to him and see what must be done for the accuracy of PVP %s to be improved.

[PsykoTron]

Sweet that would be awsome, I know a lot of people that would love to see it happen.

More people are getting into PVP these days but they get frustrated cause there toons just sux and would like to make them better but don't have the "money" to just buy stuff and try it.

Keep it up, I've seen a lots of changes to mids since I started using it and it allways gets better.

Hard work and persistance will ALLWAYS pay off!!!!! (sometimes you just have to be really patient)

[Steiner]

Taking a red marker to your post...

Sweet that would be awsomeawesome, I know a lot of people that would love to see it happen.

More people are getting into PVP these days but they get frustrated cause there toons just sux and would like to make them better but don't have the "money" to just buy stuff and try it.

Keep it up, I've seen a lots of changes to mids since I started using it and it allwaysalways gets better.

Hard work and persistancepersistence will ALLWAYSALWAYS pay off!!!!! (sometimes you just have to be really patient)

I'm a jerk I know.

[PsykoTron]

lol

ya they should but a spell checker on this forum just for me

[Fleeting Whisper]

However there are just too many things to account for to have 100% accurate PVP builds; one of the biggies being Diminishing Returns...

We don't even have the exact formula for diminishing returns, AFAIK. Just an approximation created by Arcanaville:
FinalValue = OriginalValue * (1 - ABS(ATAN(A * OriginalValue)) * 2/pi * B)

[Tog]

Wait.  What?

That formula looks like it has to do with angles.

[Zombie Man]

Wait.  What?

That formula looks like it has to do with angles.

Yep. Just line a Sine wave has to do with angles. When graphed, it shows how additional (de)buffs plateau out. See here: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Player_vs_Player#Diminishing_Returns

[Fleeting Whisper]

Wait.  What?

That formula looks like it has to do with angles.

Just because it uses trigonometry doesn't mean it has to do with angles.

For example, e^(i * x) = cos(x) + i * sin(x). (This is also why e^(i * pi) = -1, whereas most functions including imaginary numbers will result in more imaginary numbers)

When dealing in wave mechanics (sound, light, etc.) trigonometric functions regularly come up due to variations in the wave.

The arctangent function in particular tends to plateau out, hence its use. Also, the equation we've got on Paragonwiki is not necessarily the equation the game actually uses, it's just what Arcanaville has determined is a close approximation of observed results.

[Steiner]

... well the fact still remains, why bother if it isn't 100% accurate? lol

And I seriously doubt the game is doing guess work or this sort of math on-the-fly every time a power is invoked.

Has there been any direction inquiry to any of the red-names with a actual answer and not some candid response?

Because I get that this formula is "close enough" to resolve DR's complexity however it is still (as far I can tell) not the actual formula used, and if it is; who's to say what Zone it pertains to...

The underlying fact that there is simply just TOO much to account for to have accurate PvP numbers, regardless of how close we get... they're still not cut-and-dry #s and that makes for a very annoyed developer .

It's like a University asking a class to develop a more accurate calculator forgetting to tell them that there will be up to 5 hidden variables in each equation done that will render a completely useless and inaccurate calculator.

[PsykoTron]

We don't even have the exact formula for diminishing returns, AFAIK. Just an approximation created by Arcanaville:
FinalValue = OriginalValue * (1 - ABS(ATAN(A * OriginalValue)) * 2/pi * B)

Is there some way to work this approximate formla into to mids for pvp?

Since like I read Arcanaville's post and got like no clue to anything really.
Well I under stand it's a curve and at a point it it flatens out and stuff but don't really understand how to aply it to my toons.

100% accurate? Sometimes something is better than nothings.
Bad red marker

[Steiner]

Yea it can be worked in, but I have no idea when.

I'm treading very lightly around the Mids source, it was built very organically... meaning if I change one thing there is a good chance it will break a few others, lol.

[Aggelakis]

who's to say what Zone [Arcanaville's formula] pertains to...

PVP changes are binary: use PVP numbers (in a PVP zone or during an Arena match with diminishing returns enabled), or don't use PVP numbers (PVE).

[Tog]

Just because it uses trigonometry doesn't mean it has to do with angles.

For example, e^(i * x) = cos(x) + i * sin(x). (This is also why e^(i * pi) = -1, whereas most functions including imaginary numbers will result in more imaginary numbers)

When dealing in wave mechanics (sound, light, etc.) trigonometric functions regularly come up due to variations in the wave.

The arctangent function in particular tends to plateau out, hence its use. Also, the equation we've got on Paragonwiki is not necessarily the equation the game actually uses, it's just what Arcanaville has determined is a close approximation of observed results.

Oh.  Nevermind then.  That actually makes sense when I see the explanation.  Thanks.