Author Topic: Need to be able to edit certain fields.  (Read 8929 times)

Snow Globe

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Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« on: July 22, 2009, 06:52:41 PM »
Quote
We've noticed that you're updating this information from HeroStats or our own Titan Network Tracker. That's great!

Unfortunately, to make sure these programs maintain consistent data in the system, we have to lock down the fields under "General Information" and "Detailed Information" that have been updated automatically.
The problem is Herostats is HIGHLY inaccurate when it comes to tracking power sets.

Example:
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/727
The "real" Illusion/Empathy.

http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/6002
A Mastermind with ILLUSION/EMPATHY?

Others.
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/6015
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/5094
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/3351
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/5261


I don't even have to guess why this is happening. I KNOW why. Herostats automatically saves character information as "<charactername>.hsd". So if there are multiple characters with the same name, the powersets do NOT get saved, and are transmitted incorrectly to the Titan Network.

Please remove the block preventing users from changing power sets. It isn't as if power sets can be changed after making the character.

As a suggestion, Herostats/Glycerine should only update the power set fields if they are blank. If the field isn't blank, then CIT shouldn't "fix" them. At that point it should not be a problem for users to manually correct any mistakes the programs make.



Steiner

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #1 on: July 22, 2009, 07:06:44 PM »
Very good point.

I believe Nicster has worked something like this into the web service script HS/Glyc is sending data to our site through.

Nic?
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Tazhyngarth

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #2 on: July 22, 2009, 07:53:28 PM »
I know you are aware of this Snow, but I have to mention it as it is a factor in the Powerset Tracking.  The checkbox option to "ignore saved powersets" that can be selected for each Character.  That is supposed to help the correct powerset labeling issue here.

If that item is checked off and this problem is still occuring, that's a problem.

SaintNicster

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2009, 07:56:37 PM »
The problem is Herostats is HIGHLY inaccurate when it comes to tracking power sets.

Example:
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/727
The "real" Illusion/Empathy.

http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/6002
A Mastermind with ILLUSION/EMPATHY?

Others.
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/6015
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/5094
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/3351
http://cit.cohtitan.com/character/5261


I don't even have to guess why this is happening. I KNOW why. Herostats automatically saves character information as "<charactername>.hsd". So if there are multiple characters with the same name, the powersets do NOT get saved, and are transmitted incorrectly to the Titan Network.

As a note, http://www.herostats.org/release-notes.html#Known_Issue_Identical_Chars_Powersets will fix the issue for you.  I believe this should transfer across game sessions.


Please remove the block preventing users from changing power sets. It isn't as if power sets can be changed after making the character.

As a suggestion, Herostats/Glycerine should only update the power set fields if they are blank. If the field isn't blank, then CIT shouldn't "fix" them. At that point it should not be a problem for users to manually correct any mistakes the programs make.



Snow Globe

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2009, 01:46:49 AM »
I know you are aware of this Snow, but I have to mention it as it is a factor in the Powerset Tracking.
Why? Seriously, why is it locked? I can understand Server, Name. I can see where it would be better to let the program keep track of level. (edit: Actually I can only really see the need to lock down Server and Name, but then there is the issue of name changes.)

I cannot see locking down the powersets. The original CIT didn't have the problem with changing them. This change happened with the revamp to the Titan Network.

As for tracking:
http://cit.cohtitan.com/stats

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Oops! This page doesn't exist!
You could probably go back, or head to the home page.
Been like this since the previous version went down.

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The checkbox option to "ignore saved powersets" that can be selected for each Character.  That is supposed to help the correct powerset labeling issue here.

If that item is checked off and this problem is still occuring, that's a problem.
The last time I checked it didn't work. Trying again, it does work.

However, I'm brought back to my point:
As a suggestion, Herostats/Glycerine should only update the power set fields if they are blank. If the field isn't blank, then CIT shouldn't "fix" them. At that point it should not be a problem for users to manually correct any mistakes the programs make.

Further edit:
If it were not for the fact that I am already up to my eyeballs with School and the Scoop, I'd offer to help out getting things up and running.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:10:32 AM by Snow Globe »



SaintNicster

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2009, 03:16:43 AM »
Why? Seriously, why is it locked? I can understand Server, Name. I can see where it would be better to let the program keep track of level. (edit: Actually I can only really see the need to lock down Server and Name, but then there is the issue of name changes.)

I cannot see locking down the powersets. The original CIT didn't have the problem with changing them. This change happened with the revamp to the Titan Network.
Because way back in the day, Voltaic, SP, Mav, and the others made a decision to lock it.  Those same guys who ran the original CIT.

As for tracking:
http://cit.cohtitan.com/stats
Been like this since the previous version went down.
The last time I checked it didn't work. Trying again, it does work.
There haven't been running statistics since the rewrite that was done nearly a year ago.  There have been multiple posts throughout the forums saying "eventually".  It's on my to-do list.   That list is big, and keeps growing.

However, I'm brought back to my point:
As a suggestion, Herostats/Glycerine should only update the power set fields if they are blank. If the field isn't blank, then CIT shouldn't "fix" them. At that point it should not be a problem for users to manually correct any mistakes the programs make.

Further edit:
If it were not for the fact that I am already up to my eyeballs with School and the Scoop, I'd offer to help out getting things up and running.
With the founders in their semi-retired status, I stepped up and volunteered for the task of maintaining the site.  Partially because I loved the site and want to keep it going, and partially because I am insane.  This took the load off of Steiner, who picked up Mids, is doing a reworking of the main site, and god-knows what else.

I am employed full time outside of Titan.  Luckily, in my downtime, I have the opportunity to work on the sites, but if anything comes up, I have to work there.  I work on this site as much as I can, but I'm not going to kill myself over it.  I play the game, have friends to hang out with, and various other things.  I am not being paid to do this.  I will work on bugs and features as I am able to.  I will likely jump between fixing bugs and working on bigger things because I need a break from that area.  When I say something will be done, it will be done.  It just happens on MY TERMS, not yours.


Snow Globe

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2009, 05:38:26 AM »
When I say something will be done, it will be done.  It just happens on MY TERMS, not yours.
If you are referring to the stats page(s), then I have no issue with that. I was pointing out to Tazhyngarth, that the given reason didn't match the practice. This change was well before you came on board. I tried to make a point to say just that.

If you are referring to my suggestion, then while I seem to have convinced Steiner of my point, but have failed to convince you to add it to the list of suggestions? I didn't say I wanted it tomorrow, but I thought this was the forum section for suggestions. Was I wrong?

As to the offer of help, like I said, if it were not for School & Scoop I'd be more than happy to help out. If you want to send me a zipped badge table export (structure/data) and a copy of a PHP page that shows it to viper.gryphon@gmail.com I'll see what I can do for your "biggies" list. The reason I need the php is to match what you are doing. If you send me the structure (no data) of the characters, I'll see what I can do for the xml feeds. I make no promises, but I'm willing to take a look at how to do it without any pressure on you.

And I just discovered why I wasn't using that herostats feature: It IS broken. It was registering my Fire/Fire/Fire tank as "unknown/unknown" with that option enabled. With it not set, it can find the powersets.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 06:15:56 AM by Snow Globe »



Steiner

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #7 on: July 23, 2009, 12:52:17 PM »
Well.. to soften the mood around here...

I appreciate your willingness to help get things done Snow, however we are at the mercy of our lives before Titan and have to wrap your head around the idea of a request, versus a demand which is what pretty much everything you just said needed to be "fixed" came off as.

Also, we might not come off this way, but a lot of us (specifically the developers and over-harassed mods) on Titan have a very thin sheet of ice blow us, and our willingness to break it for Titan's users is overall based on their understanding of our situations and observations. Meaning we might not break our backs to get something someone needs done the day you ask for it, but when the time is right and everything else in life has settled down we will do so 10 fold, as you have seen us do many times before.


About your script request... I just don't see that happening mainly because our sites are on an MVC Framework (Model, View & Controller) and to give you one sections php script would be pointless without the entire framework attached for the functions to work correctly. And there is just no way someone outside of Titan's developers is going to see that because I'm paranoid and really don't want someone vindictive figuring out a way to hack us or even worse, fork our site into their own. lol

Just give it time and everything will come to pass. Nicster doesn't mess around when it comes to CIT, so trust in him. He's got everyone's interests (for CIT) in mind and seems to love pleasing people. Qualities I've come to admire in him.
~Steinerd

Snow Globe

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2009, 03:04:53 PM »
Well.. to soften the mood around here...

I appreciate your willingness to help get things done Snow, however we are at the mercy of our lives before Titan and have to wrap your head around the idea of a request, versus a demand which is what pretty much everything you just said needed to be "fixed" came off as.
I am sorry it was read that way. It was a suggestion, not a demand. My writing style tends to be blunt and to the point, but I am not upset that it will take a while to do.

My question to Taz was to figure out why, since he was likely a part of the discussions as to why this change happened in the first place, and short of talking to Volt, Mav, and SP because I wouldn't think the newer Titan people would  know. I'll fully admit that I still don't have a clue as to why some of the fields are locked, because it just doesn't make sense to me.

About your script request... I just don't see that happening mainly because our sites are on an MVC Framework (Model, View & Controller) and to give you one sections php script would be pointless without the entire framework attached for the functions to work correctly. And there is just no way someone outside of Titan's developers is going to see that because I'm paranoid and really don't want someone vindictive figuring out a way to hack us or even worse, fork our site into their own. lol
Ok, I can see that. Would you be open to sending just the badge database structure (no data, just table fields)? The reason I ask is that I can see me working on a couple of add-ons that I'd happily donate to Titan. I wouldn't want to host these add-ons, but I'd love to have them. I wouldn't want to overburden anyone making them.

Just give it time and everything will come to pass. Nicster doesn't mess around when it comes to CIT, so trust in him. He's got everyone's interests (for CIT) in mind and seems to love pleasing people. Qualities I've come to admire in him.
Again I'm not asking for it soon, I was asking for it eventually. I know full well just how much effort a project this size is, and how little in return it gives.



Tazhyngarth

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2009, 03:14:36 PM »
I know you are aware of this Snow, but I have to mention it as it is a factor in the Powerset Tracking.  The checkbox option to "ignore saved powersets" that can be selected for each Character.  That is supposed to help the correct powerset labeling issue here.

If that item is checked off and this problem is still occuring, that's a problem.

This entire Quote was specifically refering to the HS Program alone, not the Locked/Unlocked items on the CIT Site.  So you're breaking off my first Sentence as you did confuses me, Snow.  I won't go into more detail because you, SN and Steiner have already covered everything.  I'll just say this:

You know the drill of the old CIT...Tracking Program registers incorrect information, you notice it in your Account, go correct it on the Site.  You continue to do this everytime it happens, which could be never again, or everytime you Log that Character with the App running.  (that being personal experience, only happened a few times to me, others came across it a lot more)  Locking the CIT items was a way to prevent you from having to continuously correct the mistakes.  Also adding in the abefore mentioned Checkbox to HS was a second step in this prevention process....both seemed to halt this problem for the most part.

Clearly this checkbox may not be a 100% solution because with each HS Update it has potential to break.  Just like how something in-game is working fine but yet breaks when they Update something totally unrelated, a similar event could occur in HS from time to time.

Ever since the CIT re-write, we've bounced ideas on the best way to handle this whole thing and not all of them worked.  Those being the better solutions that we wanted, and I'm not saying we're settling for some low-grade potential fix.  What we have on our List is the best we can get at this time, given our tech....unless, there is a way that none of us can think of that would be better than what we have....that is still a slight possibility.

*Edit, Bah, bad timing on my Part, I hope this answers your question Snow, if it doesn't, I am sorry...I can give way more information if needed.  Also, Steiner was refering to both yours and SNs Posts, can't read emotion in Posts correctly all the time, and both of you just seemed to get heated.  From what I know of your time with us, I know you were just making statements and weren't "attacking" us, and for that I continue to thank you.

*Edit 2, typos.....
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 05:05:53 PM by Tazhyngarth »

Steiner

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #10 on: July 23, 2009, 04:50:34 PM »
Sorry Snow, I can't give you that. But feel free to discuss this into more detail via forum PMs.

~Steinerd

Snow Globe

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 05:46:40 PM »
*Edit, Bah, bad timing on my Part, I hope this answers your question Snow, if it doesn't, I am sorry...
Yes, it does (mostly, but I can ignore my need to know for now ;D).



Steiner

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2009, 05:56:47 PM »
Read your PMs before getting all guilt trippy on me. lol
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Snow Globe

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 07:21:36 PM »
Read your PMs before getting all guilt trippy on me. lol
Again, I'm sticking my foot in mouth. I seem to be doing that a lot lately. Not meant to be guilt-trippy, just acknowledging. Also, pm sent ;).

Removed the message :roll:
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 07:27:52 PM by Snow Globe »



SaintNicster

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2009, 03:20:54 AM »
If you hadn't noticed, a while back i had tweaked the edit characters page.  I've also pushed through changes where Glycerine and HeroStats should now not be updating your Origin, Archetype, Primary, or Secondaries if there is already data in the system.  If there is an error, the user will be able to fix it themselves.

Be careful what you wish for.


Tazhyngarth

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Re: Need to be able to edit certain fields.
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2009, 01:22:16 PM »