Author Topic: Issue 15 - Anniversary  (Read 8855 times)

Catharctic

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Issue 15 - Anniversary
« on: April 28, 2009, 09:10:01 PM »
Overview

Discuss!

Lady Thanatos

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2009, 10:51:41 PM »
Missing: A number of Quality of Life fixes.  :P

I kind of wish the TF/SF was set for something other than 45-50. Redside is *still* missing a 30-35 SF.

-- Lady T

Shades29A

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #2 on: April 29, 2009, 10:15:13 AM »
well, i'm quite disappointed by the i15 announcement...
they've always been saying the next Issue was gonna be some big content bomb
but only 2 new TFs? and some faces and costume changes?
and some MA tools?

color me unimpressed ...
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Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #3 on: April 29, 2009, 01:18:13 PM »
Dude, that's only tip of the iceberg stuff... they're going to come up with a good amount of content before they launch it. :D
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Catharctic

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2009, 01:39:25 PM »
It's only the initial announcement. There's actually supposed to be story arcs that introduce the TF/SF, so maybe we'll see a few of those in the 30-35 range for villains. I agree with Lady T. They still need a SF specifically for villains in the 30-35 range.

I'm actually excited about the TF/SF being a competitive storyline. The only other place that has that in-game is Mender Silos, but Silos is pulled straight from the old comic.

They don't normally put all the QOL stuff in the initial announcement.

Did everyone see that there's no closed beta? It's going straight to open. Well, they are calling it closed, but all accounts will have access to it.

Shades29A

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2009, 01:56:25 PM »
if that is the case, i'm gonna laugh pretty hard at some EU players ...
in the last 24 hours or so, over a dozen ppl have said they were gonna leave, including some veterans and well-known players ...
just because the i15 announcement was so mediocre !
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SaintNicster

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2009, 02:15:07 PM »
if that is the case, i'm gonna laugh pretty hard at some EU players ...
in the last 24 hours or so, over a dozen ppl have said they were gonna leave, including some veterans and well-known players ...
just because the i15 announcement was so mediocre !
How many of them will actually quit, though?  Seemingly, the majority of players who do this will bitch and whine and never actually leave the game.  But they'll be sure to remind you at every single turn.  It's a knee-jerk reaction, and I'm sick of sicking them.


SuckerPunch

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2009, 02:20:52 PM »
I was pretty disappointed with the announcement. I was kind of hoping that I15 would be the issue that re-piqued my interest.  So far, it doesn't even give me a passing interest in re-subbing.

I'm holding out a small bit of hope for 2 scenarios:

1) What they've announced isn't everything
2) This is "it", but it's the first of a trend of "smaller but closer together" issues


Time will tell, I guess, but so far I'm incredibly disappointed with an Issue dubbed "Anniversary" being so incredibly weak.

Tazhyngarth

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2009, 02:43:55 PM »
...Time will tell, I guess, but so far I'm incredibly disappointed with an Issue dubbed "Anniversary" being so incredibly weak.

QFT.

Shades29A

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2009, 03:46:49 PM »
Dude, that's only tip of the iceberg stuff... they're going to come up with a good amount of content before they launch it. :D

read the post above this one ...
that's the general consensus i'm afraid
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SaintNicster

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2009, 04:22:25 PM »
read the post above this one ...
that's the general consensus i'm afraid
I-14 "only" had the Mission Architect in its initial feature announcement.  Granted, the wait time between issues was larger, so they could put a few other things in.

In the EU Q&A session Posi said:
Quote
04-28-2009 17:52:31 [Local] Positron: I15 is not a super-mega issue. We needed to get the stuff that's ready to go out near the Anniversary

Going out near the anniversary.  My guess is that we'll probably going to see some kind of beta before the end of May/Early June.  It's not likely going to be 5 months between the issues.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 04:29:13 PM by SaintNicster »


katsumil@gmail.com

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2009, 03:08:38 PM »
I personally will just take it in stride. The game itself is still nice to play, even if totally hosing those who can only manage solo play. Red side has always had issues, so any attempt to adress them, be it new TF/SF or what have you is welcome. New faces are welcome, as it's pretty obvious by looking at the player base that some of those faces they have in there just aren't really liked by the playerbase.

Personally, I would love to see a re-working of the game so that solo players and casual gamers actually have a decent shot at having fun, not being stuck in uber-grind from day 1, triply so on Red side. I would also love to see some from of ultra-low graphics mode so the devs can stop this not supported, not un-siopported graphics chipset mess that is pain to play the game with, and almost impossible to play Red-side with (I play on my laptop, and the best I can get is 18 FPS, and the RAM, CPU and such are better than desktop)

But we shall see what they do, and see how the cards fall as they stack them.

SuckerPunch

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2009, 03:53:34 PM »
Well, I have to disagree with you there.   When I was playing, I'd spend probably 50% of my time solo, and maybe 25% on no more than a duo.  Aside from the occasionally very difficult room, mob, or something, soloing was never difficult.  Even on a Dominator, Controller, or Defender. It may have been boringly slow but it was easily doable.

I really can't fathom how you can claim they totally broke soloing for this game, unless I14 introduced some ridiculous new mechanics.

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2009, 04:14:39 PM »
They didn't totally break it, it's just significantly harder to play the game and get anywheres, or enjoy much of the additional content if solo. When solo you get smaller mobs, which measn lower xp, MUCH lower inf, and fewer uncommon/rare drops. I take the statemtn 'anyone can solo the game on heroic' which was told to me bya dev, and I have to laugh. They have made the game so that to really enjoy it, or get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, you have to team. Part of it yes, is play style, but part of it is how they chose to make the game (tell me how a player is supposed to be able to get 12 MILLION inf by lv 20 without a farming bonanza or paying RL money for it) and address smaller issues with it. Due to my work schedule, I am not on at a regualr time, so I either take my chances (or used to) with pick up teams, or have to solo the game.

SuckerPunch

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2009, 05:07:46 PM »
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.  I think that the game, on the whole, is plenty solo-able.  They've put in place all the mechanics to make it do-able, and give you additional rewards/benefits from turning up the difficulty and/or playing with a team.

For a "Massively Multiplayer" game, this approach makes perfect sense.

I understand the need and desire to want to solo, as like I said I soloed a pretty large percentage of my playtime, but I expect the devs to skew towards catering to teams in this type of game. If you want to be able to play solo effectively, an MMO is probably not the place to find that experience.  There's lots of offline 1-player console/PC games out there. Within that same logic, the devs have done a bang-up job catering to solo players.

eabrace

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2009, 07:09:06 PM »
I'd have to agree with Suckerpunch.  I solo a whole lot more than I play on teams.  Most of my characters are hidden from searches so I don't get random invites from people I don't know.  I know, that's odd behavior considering this is an MMO, after all, but there you have it.

But everyone has their own play style, and everyone expects something different out of the game.  I'm sure your expectations are different than mine, Katsumil.  I can't fathom why I'd need 12 million inf on a character before level 50, let alone at level 20 (unless you're going after all the crafting memorization badges right now, in which case I could totally understand.)  I've got a couple characters at 50 who still have the same SOs they had when IOs were introduced and they play just fine for me.
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Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2009, 07:47:27 PM »
Any City Of... vet will tell ya. not about the IOs, all about the player.

This game isn't like other MMOs in its class... It's not about time played and about how well you play.
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Catharctic

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2009, 08:36:36 PM »
2) This is "it", but it's the first of a trend of "smaller but closer together" issues

I think this could be the case. Some people are even speculating beta will start within the next week or two.

I'm starting to wonder if they are really considering an engine upgrade with comments like these becoming a little more prevalent:

(From the Massively.com Interview)
Quote
Where do you see City of Heroes and City of Villains going in another 5 years? Will we see a City of Heroes 2?

I see City of Heroes and Villains still going strong and still getting content updates for the foreseeable future. I can't say exactly what will happen in the next five years, but I can definitely see City of Heroes still being a strong and popular series we'll be supporting. That's not to say there won't be any sort of sequel by then, but we're all really committed to the original game, so the locales of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles will still be filled with action.

We've heard rumors of a graphical update running around for years. Are there any plans to update the graphics in future issues?

We've hired some "Type-R" programmers (inside joke) to investigate and deliver this very thing. Stay tuned for details.

Bliz

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2009, 04:54:23 PM »
They didn't totally break it, it's just significantly harder to play the game and get anywheres, or enjoy much of the additional content if solo. When solo you get smaller mobs, which measn lower xp, MUCH lower inf, and fewer uncommon/rare drops. I take the statemtn 'anyone can solo the game on heroic' which was told to me bya dev, and I have to laugh. They have made the game so that to really enjoy it, or get anywhere in a reasonable amount of time, you have to team. Part of it yes, is play style, but part of it is how they chose to make the game (tell me how a player is supposed to be able to get 12 MILLION inf by lv 20 without a farming bonanza or paying RL money for it) and address smaller issues with it. Due to my work schedule, I am not on at a regualr time, so I either take my chances (or used to) with pick up teams, or have to solo the game.

I've been playing CoV since launch, so believe me, I can tell you about broke toons. Before IOs were introduced, I can tell you that by level 22 you haven't earned a third of what it takes to buy a full set of SOs (about 1.5mil) via regular missions. (Because that's what I did, several times.)

So if SOs cost about 1.5mil @22, why would you need 12 million inf on a level 20? (On the average toon, you haven't earned 1.5mil total inf in defeats/mish XP until your late 20s.) And actually, the solo player will earn more inf from mobs than a group, while groups will earn more XP. (Wasn't there a post some time back on these boards about someone making 36million inf in one level while street sweeping Founders for one level in their 30s?) Still, you don't need to farm, or market PvP to make good cash; just craft and sell the drops you don't need, or sell salvage for profit. It's not hard or time consuming; 5-10 minutes of your time each play session and you have decent extra cash. Certainly enough to fund an SO or common IO build. And only fools pay for inf with cash.

Now, I will totally agree that solo the lowbie game (from about 6-22) takes forever. The XP-gain to effective fighter ratio is far skewed against your favor, plus Mercy blows and I'm always ever-so-happy to be the heck outta there. I tend to make things harder on myself by not bothering to buy enhancements. I will often craft and slot what drops I get that are useful, but otherwise everything gets vendored or put on the market.

However, as a player since before CoV launch, I can tell you they've made the trip up SO much easier. Not just with the XP Curve smoothing, but at the very least, common IOs at low levels give you consistency in effectiveness, even when used very sparingly. (Remember being stuck in your mid-late 30s for ages, literally? The XP curve was so off you could level a new toon 1-30 in the same time it would take to get from 36-40.)

If you're under the misunderstanding that 'anyone can solo this game' means 'soloers are as effective/quick as teams' I can see why you'd be put off. But solo doesn't always equal fast. I see many players complaining having a hard time finding teams, but are completely unwilling to form one themself. Hosting teams is really not difficult; at the very least, you get a handful of relative level and do newspaper/radio missions in zone. Pick a mish, set a mish, people go. What's the big deal?
Liz

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SuckerPunch

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2009, 05:48:07 PM »
Pick a mish, set a mish, people go. What's the big deal?

People suffer from MSAD.

MMO Social Anxiety Disorder.  :P

katsumil@gmail.com

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2009, 09:42:14 PM »
The entire 20 million at level 20 is partially caused by lookign at some of the prices on Wentworths for the components you need for some sets. The prices are insane for things, and sometimes skewed in that the rare stuff is dirt cheap and the 'common' stuff is expensive beyond reach. ALso since your gains on solo are less, it takes longer to reach that next level, or the inf you need to but the parts/components. I know that right now, I'll be farming the frig out of Architect to afford the Hami goo's and Pangean soil I need since I can't do the Hamido TF myself, and the vast majority of teams I've eer been on, to be kind to them, sucked the back side of a pack animal. I myself have almsor 45 months playing the game, so I know about pre-ed, and the xp curve shaping. And I have had devs and 'eletist' chars tell me that anyone can solo the game on heroic. Well after spending almost a mil on inspirs and enhancements, and dying 7 times in a row, regardless of strategdy, I was still unable to 'solo' certain missions on heroic (Preatorian AV's) and had to get help. Yet supposedly, 'anyone' can solo them. I just want to be able to have fun and enjoy the game. But up till now, for everythign they add that increases the value of the game, they tend to mess somethign else up that drives me into a lather. I am a casual player. I only have 13 toons total, only 1 50, and I really don't play the uber fine-tune number game with the stats. But I do admit, I am reclusive in RL, and part of that shows online, I wouldn't call myself as having MSAD, but if I'm not enjoying my time with a team, and not progressing by being on one, why shoudl I join one? That and given the lack of manners shown by a lot of people in the game, sanity is safer when your by yourself.

But I'll wait and see what I15 does, as I said before. Hopefully it will fix more than it breaks.

Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2009, 09:52:16 PM »
Hate to break the bad news... but between a SO and an IO is only about 10%... and some of the bonuses are so small it's not even worth it in some cases.

"Uberly" speaking... an "uber" super has nothing to do with the enhancements, it all relies on the player. If you can't do great running with SOs you won't do any better on IOs or the sets... just fact.

IOs right now are being regarded in the same way gear is on other MMOs, "MUST HAVE THE BEST!" when the best isn't always what defines the super.

One of my other leaders in my SG has a hami-tank built in i4 with nothing but IOs and 3 HOs and we still do the STF in 45 mins on average with that tank, and here RARELY dies unless the sonic forgot to buff him. And if a stone tank with SOs and 3 HOs can tank LR... that's Uber to me.
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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2009, 10:10:19 PM »
I didn't mean uber as in the character themselves, I mean the ultra hardcore gamers that choose x over y for the .05 % percetn difference to thier outer mongolian cooking skill they get. I have many of the powers on my chars still loaded with SO, or non-named IO's. I have no HO's at all. Some if the IO sets are nice for evening out some of your real shortcomings (upping fire resist on an ice based char) but yes, I agree that ultimetly it comes down to how the player is, how they play, and how they choose thier x's and y's

I do prefer IO's since they don't outlevel you, granted once your at 47-50 it really don't matter, but on my one cahr, i woudl have loved to have some IO damage increases, woudl have save so much inf from having to go and buy or hope to find the ones that were training, DO or SO while I leveled up faster than I inf'ed up to afford them.

I'm proud to say I did a lot of what I did solo. I needed help here and there, and had a few people I coudl trust to help me. I still run solo with them, and as my own skills have improved, out of 13 toons (8 hero, 5 villan) I only have 1 hero and 3 villans that are on the first tier diffiuclty, all the others are on the second tier.

Best I can compete with your stone tank example was said elietist punk challenged me to an arena match, and my lv 45 tank went toe to toe with his 50 tank and beat him to a standstill. Oddly enough, he hasn't siad much since then, but small victories are about all I can get.

All I can hope for is that eventually I'll hit a time when enough of my friends are on I can try and tackle the larger challenges of the game, but until then, allI can do is plod along, and lay seige against the seemingly endless legions of immature and glory seekers and try and eek some fun out of the game.

Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2009, 11:34:02 PM »
All I can hope for is that eventually I'll hit a time when enough of my friends are on I can try and tackle the larger challenges of the game, but until then, allI can do is plod along, and lay seige against the seemingly endless legions of immature and glory seekers and try and eek some fun out of the game.

It's a dieing breed, and it's about time, lol.
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Catharctic

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2009, 06:44:35 PM »

Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2009, 08:05:54 PM »
Oh snap!

It's on test!

Avatea's Announcement

Bruce Harlick's Dev Diary (with some pics)
Lies, LIES ALL LIES. Don't go nothing is there... (sad attempt to be the sole ruler of Test Server, BUAH HAHAHA).
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Dark Horizon

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2009, 07:59:11 PM »
I've been playing CoV since launch, so believe me, I can tell you about broke toons. Before IOs were introduced, I can tell you that by level 22 you haven't earned a third of what it takes to buy a full set of SOs (about 1.5mil) via regular missions...So if SOs cost about 1.5mil @22, why would you need 12 million inf on a level 20?
I feel her pain, but had nothing to contribute to defend the idea that you're "expected" to have scads of inf at 20, then I wandered back over to the CIT, and found this right on the front page.

There are a total of 21,739 toons being tracked by the database, only 4364 of which are 50s.  The average level among all those toons is 26...and the average influence is 20,924,890.  So something is going on here, and those of us who primarily solo can't hope to be a part of it.  About half my characters are stuck in the 20s, and maybe two of them have over 1 mil (and I had to work very hard at it), the rest are well below 1/2 a mil.  My main is an extreme exception, and she only had 6 mil by the time she was 22 (the real value of IOs to soloists is building and selling them, apparently), and at 43 she only has a little over 32 mil.  So, yes, if you primarily solo, you won't be able to partake of "IO culture" because you won't be able to afford it.  It is very much a team game, and becoming more so all the time, especially when we are plagued by min/maxers everywhere we turn to squeeze every last drop of benefit out of all possible enhancements.  Bums me too.  I know it's an MMO, but some of us often don't have the hour or two needed for ongoing team efforts.


Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #27 on: June 10, 2009, 08:46:16 PM »
DANG! You weren't far off there Dark H.!

I got curious and ran all character's influence average of those who actually have any llisted and it came to 20,912,253.8260 Nice!
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eabrace

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #28 on: June 10, 2009, 09:11:20 PM »
Looking only at my heroes, I have an average of 13,878,597 spread across all 16 characters on three servers.  If I take my main and his chunk of influence out of the equation, the average drops to 1,448,899 for each character.  90.21% of all my influence is concentrated in one character on one server.

What I think is my best indicator of what a solo character actually needs to get by is my Tanker on Champion.  He's the only character I have on that server and his SG (the Paragon Wiki SG) is largely inactive, so there's no higher level character to buy or craft his IOs for him and drop them into storage.  He went all the way to level 34 running about one mission per night, almost entirely solo.  He has a full load of IOs (all common, no sets), and has 7,474,681 influence in his pocket.  And the only influence badge he has is Celebrity (1 M).

All I do is sell what's dropped to me if it's not something I'm watching for to slot in a build.  If it's worth more on the market, up it goes, if not, I dump it at the store.  Never even bothered to buy level 50 SOs for cheap from the market and run them to the store on Champion.

It's nothing like being on the continuous verge bankruptcy in I4 trying to replace all of my enhancements every 5 levels.

I'm becoming a crotchety old Tanker.  You damned kids get off my lawn!  ;)

Anyway, I'd be very curious to see what the average influence per character comes out to if all of the level 50s and their coffers are left out of the calculations.  I suspect that I'm not the only one with a level 50 that just has nothing better to do with their influence than hoard it.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2009, 09:27:56 PM by eabrace »
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Dark Horizon

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #29 on: June 10, 2009, 10:11:28 PM »
Quote
DANG! You weren't far off there Dark H.!
[Psst!  It's on the CIT index page in the lower right corner.  I make no claim to be a mathematician!]

Quote
Looking only at my heroes, I have an average of 13,878,597 spread across all 16 characters on three servers.  If I take my main and his chunk of influence out of the equation, the average drops to 1,448,899 for each character.  90.21% of all my influence is concentrated in one character on one server.
Much the same for me.  I'm tracking 20 characters here, five of which are villains.  The 15 heroes share a total of 44,223,369 inf (as of the last time each had been tracked), but approximately 32 mil of that belongs solely to Dark Horizon.  That means the remaining 12 mil is distributed amongst 14 characters, probably weighted more toward the higher level characters.  I know most of the under-15s are dirt poor, some with only four-figure bank accounts.  I have no 50s.  Most of Dark's fortune came from watching the market and cheaply building IOs that fetched excellent prices.  Generally I sell every enhancement that drops that I can't immediately use on that character; I don't bother trying to transfer between characters.  If it could potentially fetch a higher price at market, it goes there, otherwise it gets trotted off to the store for immediate sale.


Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2009, 12:01:50 AM »
Yea, I don't pay attention to those because they're not 100% Real-Time, they're 24 hour cron-jobs, lol.
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gothess

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2009, 06:08:04 AM »
Just wanted to stick my two cents in, or nose, whatev. :P

I have been playing for almost 5 years, maybe 4.5? I used to solo at the beginning, which caused me to have my first 50 about a year and a half later. Hehe. But I was really into the game from day one. I think I spent about a whole day just creating my character.

Over the years, I've met some cool people, even met a married couple in real life at an amusement park. That was fun. :D

Anywho, my main character is ALWAYS broke because I keep crafting IO's for two reasons: 1. to work towards the invention badges, and 2. so that I can fill the four enhancement bins we have in my SG. Not only do I put in regular IO's but also set IO's for anyone in my SG to grab. Some also make their own and put theirs in to share.

Uh, what was my point? Darn, I forgot... I think my point was that for me, it doesn't matter if I am "rich", IO'd out, or anything sparkly the most fun I get from the game is teaming with my SG peeps. Sometimes we will PUG or go badge hunting, we love TF's (have one every Saturday @2pm CST). We aren't terribly active but I can always text them and see if anyone is up for anything, if no one can get on I'll play with the base creator or go badge hunting.

Forgot my point again, but that's beside the point. Uh, have a nice! :)

(Must get to bed, last day of work tomorrow!)
-T
(aka Ani)



SuckerPunch

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2009, 04:39:33 PM »
Yea, I don't pay attention to those because they're not 100% Real-Time, they're 24 hour cron-jobs, lol.

Do you really think those averages differ much within a 24 hour period?


(the answer is no, they do not)

Steiner

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Re: Issue 15 - Anniversary
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2009, 11:58:41 PM »
They could, but you're always right so whatever...
~Steinerd